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Dungeon players are too fragmented

Aliniel
Aliniel
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Currently, there are two major groups of dungeon players: Random dungeons and Daily Pledges.

In addition to that, we have several levels of dungeon difficulty. Yes, several levels. It goes something like this (just my subjective feeling):
* Normal Base Game Dungeons
* Normal Early DLC Dungeons
* Veteran Base Game Dungeons
* Normal DLC Dungeons
* Veteran Early DLC Dungeons
* Veteran DLC Dungeons

By "Early DLC Dungeons" I mean dungeons like ICP, WGT, RoM, CoS. These are generally way easier than newer DLC dungeons.

First, I believe the Random Dungeons should be "removed" in their current form. Their main purpose is the daily XP bonus. I also argue they are not random at all!
* They are often done by low level players. Which means there's a higher chance to get the early base game dungeon rather than DLC ones.
* They are often done by players who don't own DLC dungeons, so you are less likely to get a DLC dungeon.

The chance for a player to experience all dungeons equally is therefore very affected. By doing it every day it's very likely some dungeons will be repeated more often than others. This is not a true randomness.

On the other hand, we have the Daily Pledges. These have their own unique rewards. There are always 3 quests, which means 3 different dungeons every day, and they rotate - it's guaranteed you won't get the same dungeons again the next day.

I propose the following:
* Remove random dungeons.
* Move the Pledges into "Random Dungeon Finder".
* There will be option to queue for one of the 3 dungeons on Normal/Veteran.
* The first time you do a Normal/Veteran you get the bonus xp, transmute stones, a piece of gear from the current "random dungeon".
* Since you are doing the pledges, you also get the keys, maybe a piece of gear for that dungeon, etc.
* The rewards can be adjusted ofc - e.g., an extra piece of gear from the pledge dungeon, xp adjustments, etc.

This would mean:
* we still keep the rewards as they are
* the dungeons remain accessible to the new players (all base dungeons would be unlocked at level 10 - the same as the random normal unlocks)
* the dungeon players are less fragmented which should, in theory, lead to shorter queue times
* ensure you actually experience different dungeons rather than get the same ones every day

Also, I believe the dungeon difficulty needs to be revisited. We have had the Normal/Veteran difficulty for over a decade, and it aged very poorly. Normal Base Game is not the same as Normal DLC. Imagine being a new player and learning there are these hidden nuances to difficulties. Or joining a dungeon to do a quest only to have it ruined by some veteran players who skip bosses, skip mechanics, and just rush to the end, kill bosses in seconds... it kills the joy of playing a dungeon.

* Introduce a new highest difficulty let's call it Vestige which is comparable to the new overland difficulty naming.
* The current gap between Normal and Veteran can be extremely huge. Player who plays Normal Elden Hollow, then Veteran Elden Hollow, then jumps into Veteran DLC will be unpleasently surprised at the jump in difficulty - it is still the "veteran" dungeon! There should be no change in difficulty!
* Tune all dungeons (Base Game, Early DLC, DLC) to the same level on all 3 difficulties: Normal, Veteran, Vestige.
* Adjust the rewards according to the difficulty. E.g., Normal only blue gear, Veteran Purple + monster sets, Vestige Gold. Add different amounts of transmute stones to each, gold, different chance at zone's housing recipes/motifs, etc. Basically, running higher level difficulty should give you higher chances at those more rare rewards. Or even better - introduce some new resources which can be used for these rewards but the higher the difficulty, the more of the currency you get.

The key thing to my suggestion is to keep the existing rewards. The bonus XP is very nice for players who are levelling up (be it level or CP). But there are many issues to the current random dungeons I already highlighted. The pledges currently feel like they are separated for a different group of players when in reality they are targeting the very same. I believe merging these two together can lead to better experience for both groups while also keeping the rewards as they are and even creates space for new rewards, even new reward systems.
  • Orbital78
    Orbital78
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    I say fragment it even more. Random DLC only. I have next to no interest in doing base game dungeons, if I do I'd solo them.
    Edited by Orbital78 on June 8, 2026 6:16AM
  • heimdall14_9
    heimdall14_9
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    Orbital78 wrote: »
    I say fragment it even more. Random DLC only. I have next to no interest in doing base game dungeons, if I do I'd solo them.

    im right there with you i solo dailies just to keep from the headache of a group , but i might do RGF if i could just get DLC only Q as the main reason i really dont like RGF runs is i always seem to get 1 out of 3 dungeon gf1/bs1/wrs1 and it never seems to fail that i get 1 runner that just wants to run passed everything just to die at boss
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    ww add-on takes the integrity of the GAME away
  • aetherix8
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    I don't think I would be happy with the removal of Random Dungeons. These days I only run dungeons for leads and in 99% of cases the dungeon I finally feel inspired to do is not one of the pledges. I queue for a specific dungeon and my understanding is that the rest of the group queued for a random one. Wouldn't it be impossible to get a group if there were no random option? And if I have to wait for a dungeon I need to be one of the pledges, then it's dead on arrival for me, because I will either simply miss it or totally lack the inspiration to do dungeons when it finally pops.
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  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    Random finder should really be renamed to all dungeons because that's how it actually works.

    It only picks a dungeon at random if nobody needs assistance or you queue in a full group.

    Otherwise, the random daily is meant to be a reward for being willing to fill in anywhere you are needed rather than what you want. The dungeons that you are placed into are the ones someone specifically selected. Clicking random queue simply checks all the boxes and then the finder places you where you're needed. Fragmenting the queue would increase queue times, especially for the less popular dungeons. In some cases people might not be able to get groups at all.


    Edited by spartaxoxo on June 8, 2026 6:52AM
  • LunaFlora
    LunaFlora
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    i would like a random dlc dungeon queue
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  • Gabriel_H
    Gabriel_H
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    A couple of things to consider:
    1. Some "DLC" dungeons are now base game, and more are likely to become so as time goes on
    2. Older players are far less likely to run base game dungeons for pledges - they don't need anything from them or keys

    Removing RNDs may solve the problem of speed runners ruining quests, but removing RVDs is going to have a negative impact on not-so experienced players - Speed runs, no deaths, HMs. And those running either normal or veteran antiquity lead hunting will suffer - as it will add to queue times.

    Edit: Formatting
    Edited by Gabriel_H on June 8, 2026 7:59AM
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  • Daoin
    Daoin
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    which ever way its spun the motivation for new players to get in the hardest content fast would still be there and is a good thing, these days with not much in the way rewards for any dungeon just checking the group finder to see peoples goals and being upfront is the key to having a good time i think....randoms can still be fun especially when doing all 8 over 8 characters for the EXP BONUS each day , regardless of each characters skill (in the eyes of others) level
  • KalevaLaine
    KalevaLaine
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    LunaFlora wrote: »
    i would like a random dlc dungeon queue

    That was I was going to say. 100% agree!
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  • frogthroat
    frogthroat
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    Aliniel wrote: »
    First, I believe the Random Dungeons should be "removed" in their current form. Their main purpose is the daily XP bonus. I also argue they are not random at all!
    * They are often done by low level players. Which means there's a higher chance to get the early base game dungeon rather than DLC ones.
    * They are often done by players who don't own DLC dungeons, so you are less likely to get a DLC dungeon.

    The purpose of random dungeons is that you go and help a group that is missing a player. The daily transmutes and XP is an incentive for you to join. It's not meant to be truly random.
  • Aliniel
    Aliniel
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    frogthroat wrote: »
    Aliniel wrote: »
    First, I believe the Random Dungeons should be "removed" in their current form. Their main purpose is the daily XP bonus. I also argue they are not random at all!
    * They are often done by low level players. Which means there's a higher chance to get the early base game dungeon rather than DLC ones.
    * They are often done by players who don't own DLC dungeons, so you are less likely to get a DLC dungeon.

    The purpose of random dungeons is that you go and help a group that is missing a player. The daily transmutes and XP is an incentive for you to join. It's not meant to be truly random.

    They shouldn't be called random then. "random" is a word that has meaning.
  • AScarlato
    AScarlato
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    After just having a group disband because the Random dungeon gave us a recent DLC dungeon and a fake healer who slotted ZERO heals, I'd appreciate a split between base and dlc dungeons, with hopes that no one doing the DLC queue would have fake roles that don't really work that well on newer dungeons.
  • tomofhyrule
    tomofhyrule
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    Aliniel wrote: »
    frogthroat wrote: »
    Aliniel wrote: »
    First, I believe the Random Dungeons should be "removed" in their current form. Their main purpose is the daily XP bonus. I also argue they are not random at all!
    * They are often done by low level players. Which means there's a higher chance to get the early base game dungeon rather than DLC ones.
    * They are often done by players who don't own DLC dungeons, so you are less likely to get a DLC dungeon.

    The purpose of random dungeons is that you go and help a group that is missing a player. The daily transmutes and XP is an incentive for you to join. It's not meant to be truly random.

    They shouldn't be called random then. "random" is a word that has meaning.

    The idea is you are getting a random dungeon. Someone else chose it as specific. But “Normal Backfill for some other Player who Chose this Dungeon Specifically” is a bit of a mouthful when they could just say “here, take a dungeon you didn’t choose and we’ll even throw in some transmutes for being nice.”

    Although maybe they should make a ‘purely random’ queue, but then without the incentives to help other people (i.e. no XP or transmutes).
  • AzuraFan
    AzuraFan
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    There's a third group of player. Those of us who aren't new or lowbies, but also haven't filled our sticker books, and/or are working on the antiquities codex.

    I'm an older player in terms of years played, but I didn't start doing dungeons until a couple of years ago (maybe a few), and I don't do them daily. I still haven't filled my sticker book for some of the base game dungeons, and I still need a lot of leads. I'm happy with the way the dungeon queue works now.

    Having said that, lately (last 6 months), I've noticed that it's not unusual for a player to drop right away when they see what dungeon it is - always a DLC dungeon. So splitting the queue into non-DLC/DLC would help that problem. For that reason, I'd support splitting the queue that way. It's really inconvenient (and selfish) when someone queues for a random and then drops because they got a random, so I'd be fine with getting those people out of a DLC queue.
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    So, I hear you that the dungeons aren't true random unless you're in a full group and that pledges would force cycle them... but I would not be happy with your suggestions... except for one.

    1 -- The queue
    I'm team "segment them even more, add a dlc queue". I hate doing nondlc dungeons. It's not a matter of their difficulty, it's how they're crafted and the people in them. They have ancient design philosophies like having a whole slew of bosses and a lot of them feel very cramped and even on veteran, nondlc has people pulling before the tank, possibility of fake tanks, etc.

    I also do not simply use the queue for random dungeons to get rewards. I use the queue for fun. I have an addon that lets me select all the dungeons I know I like and just queue for those. The pledge limitation would not be enjoyable in that regard.

    2 -- Difficulty rebalancing
    Absolutely not. If you rebalance veteran DLC dungeons, then the hard mode/challenger and trifecta achievements are at stake. From responses to normal Naj Caldeesh, normal dungeon players don't want normal to be any harder. Veteran cannot be made any easier. Instead of rebalancing the dungeons themselves, ZOS could attempt to add a rating to the dungeons on how difficult they are compared to one another. But even then, I'm not sure how necessary that is... I started out doing Fang Lair. Like, before any nondlc dungeons. It was my first vet dungeon too. The difficulty of the dungeon was never a problem, my build was.

    3 -- Vestige mode dungeons
    I would like to see a new difficulty level of dungeons to bring dungeoneers back to dungeon endgame and perhaps help them stay there (high skill players mostly blast through dungeon trifectas and then leave for trials) but it should not be queueable. If it were queueable, then it would have to be easy enough for a pug to go through it... and most of the people who need that level of difficulty avoid pugging.
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  • cyberjanet
    cyberjanet
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    What is my level 30 character meant to do, then?
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  • licenturion
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    I like your idea.

    I also like the idea to bake this into the UI like they did with respecs. Leave the NPC's for those that want to go talk to and NPC but put it in the menu's for people that already did 100s of dungeon runs like me.
    Edited by licenturion on June 8, 2026 9:27PM
  • dubq77
    dubq77
    Soul Shriven
    What about adding some kind of SBMM (but not SBMM)? Ie, if I'm sub-CP, then I only get matched with those of similar level.

    I personally don't mind how it is right now, but it could solve some of the issues of lower level players feeling "behind" when they're matched with 3 other players who are 1000 levels ahead of them; or those who want to do the quest, and usually get rushed out of it in similar situations.
  • Finisherofwar
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    It should be even more fragmented. Add the Vestige system to it. That will give some actual challenge to the base game dungeons.
  • Gabriel_H
    Gabriel_H
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    It should be even more fragmented. Add the Vestige system to it. That will give some actual challenge to the base game dungeons.

    Not in it's current form. Vestige takes base game damage to beyond end-game trial HM bosses. Getting a clear with a four-man would be nigh on impossible. If you want that level of challenge no need for a new system, just go do any vBase dungeon naked and solo.
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