A note from warframe on subclasses (abilites only get weakened on other base classes)

Hypertionb14_ESO · April 15

Subclassing allowing us to move trees around has seen ZOS weaken/alter/nerf various abilities that are generally quite good, to prevent them from "becoming the only option"

this is the wrong way of doing this, by a long shot. i have played another game however that allowed swapping of abilites, Warframe. In warframe each "warframe" character has 4 abilities, one of which can be "subsumed" in order to put on any other character.. some of the options for this system are Extremely strong and as a result, the developer has their power restricted when placed on other warframes as a means of balance to keep any one subsume option from being the best option.

i feel this would have been a better approach for Subclassing.. extremely strong abilities like Templar and Arc beams should remain unchanged or at full power when used by a Templar or Arcanist, but accessable to other classes in a slightly weakened state to not overpower other options.

Simply put, Subclasses in their current implementation on PTS show that ZOS is preffering to weaken existing class abilities that preform extremely well for everyone. Punishing people who have had those options for so long because suddenly other classes have access to them is a bad maneuver. Allowing those "strong options" to be as strong as ever on their origional classes would help preserve the identity of the origional classes.

Trust me, i have seen how REALLY good options are still chosen over others even when reduced to 50 or more effectiveness... having things like arc beam weakened on other classes exclusively will not deter people from putting arcanist beam on something like nightblade. Not every option needs this either, there are some subsumes that are as strong as they are on their origional character when placed on another after all.

ADarklore · April 15

I agree. I honestly thought they would put a 'when used in subclassing' factor in- like battle spirit- so that they could make adjustments that ONLY impact a skill or passive when used in subclassing.

gc0018 · April 15

Warframe has lots of problem with only swapping 25% of the class skill, yet now ZOS aim for 66%....

Should I call it self-confident or simply arrogant？

tsaescishoeshiner · April 15

A lot of abilities and passives were buffed, not just nerfed. Seems like each skill line was enhanced to be more valuable on its own, and not only valuable in the context of the other class skills.

BXR_Lonestar · April 15

Honestly ESO is not well set up for subclassing. Subclassing works in a D&D game, but ESO is not that style of game. If anything, the combat is action-based, not turn-based and any effort they make to try to take away meaningful choices in your character build will just make the game more bland and homogenized, or they will nerf subclassing so much that it is pretty pointless to use. Honestly, it kinda feels like this is a change they want to make to allow people who only want to play 1 character for everything have a more diverse character - but this game is just not built that way, which is why we have 20 available character slots - so you can experience different characters, different builds, and different classes.

Or maybe they feel like PVP will be easier to balance if everyone has access to everything, but a game like this should NOT be balanced in a 1 to 1 sense (meaning any class is on par with other classes, holding skill level equal). IMO kind of balance is just not attainable in a game like ESO. Instead, there should be more of a rock-paper-scissors balancing in this game, where each class has advantages over some, but disadvantages against others (it's already somewhat like that now, but I think they could take it to the next level by adding in damage penalties/bonuses vs specific classes in the class kits).

I wish they would just listen to the player base about how bad hybridization has been for the game (just one meta instead of separate meta's for stam and magika), and go in an opposite direction with classes. Stop trying to make everyone have every class ability available to other characters, and just double down on what makes every class unique, strong, and special.

Make templars the formidable close-area fighters they should be, nigh unkillable if you challenge them on their own turf.

Make nightblades the kings of stealth and single target burst damage.

Make sorcs absolutely dominant with lightning damage attacks and/or the summoner master class

etc. etc. etc.

We should also get bonus stats from having class abilities equipped vs. generic or guild abilities equipped, similar to the necro.

shezof · April 15

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

A lot of abilities and passives were buffed, not just nerfed. Seems like each skill line was enhanced to be more valuable on its own, and not only valuable in the context of the other class skills.

yeah but its gonna be very overpowered at the end. Everyone will use same skills and lines in Pve. pvp is a whole another subject and ill be stopping cyrodiil for sure

This is such a half baked concept they are calling multi classing « sub classing » instead lol

ZOS_Icy · April 15

Greetings,

With there already being a thread opened on this subject here, we're going to go ahead and close this one down.

Thank you for understanding.