Suggestion: different gear / skill stats for PvP and PvE

Northwold · March 2023

When doing game updates I get that sometimes things do need to be nerfed to make sure PvP doesn't get too out of balance. But that also affects PvE gameplay, where balance really doesn't matter (the dremora aren't going to complain).

Given that the frequent changes to skill effects and gear stats are presumably made with PvP in mind, what do people think of having a separate set of stats on gear and skills for PvE play so PvE remains a little more nerf resistant?

TaSheen · March 2023

I would KILL for a game that didn't try to "balance" both together. Seriously. I used to pvp in WoW and RIFT - but now I'm just too old and slow and my reflexes are shot - so I don't have any intention of ever going into pvp again. And it really chaps me that my skills get whacked because of pvp....

VaranisArano · March 2023

Balance does matter in PVE.

Sure, Molag Kena, Domihaus, and the coalition of trial bosses aren't actually going to ring up the Devs complaining about overused gear, dying too quickly, or mechanics that just aren't hitting as hard as they used to. The Devs have all that data, of course, but most players don't think about those as problems.

But players complain when their class isn't the meta choice.

But players get bored when things stay the same too long.

But the top tier of players pushes the boundaries of what ZOS can design for.

But players buy the power creep that ZOS sells in Mythic Items, and so ZOS nerfs that power creep a few months later (so they can sell the next one, and so on.)

It's a mistake to think that balance doesn't matter in PVE. ZOS has a vested interest in nerfing power creep (and selling power creep) and in keeping the PVE side of the game feeling "fresh" by changing stuff every couple updates.

Even in a game like Warframe, which effectively has no PVP, the Devs still have to balance PVE in order to keep power creep within acceptable levels and to nerf overused items.

kargen27 · March 2023

I disagree with your premise. Some of the biggest changes to combat were done to reel in PvE. ZoS announced some big changes after teams were getting trifecta achievements a day or two after content dropped. There have been changes with PvP in mind but the big ones were for the most part done to try and get PvE back how ZoS envisioned.

I do think it would be good if the 5th bonus on some sets had a PvP and PvE specific affect. Skills not so much. With the armory system it isn't difficult nor time consuming to switch out the appropriate skills.

merpins · March 2023

I've been saying for years that PVP and PVE need to be balanced separately, and so has many other people here on the forums. As others in this chat have mentioned, yes, changes need to be made in-game semi-frequently to shake things up. Skill changes, nerfs and buffs, but at this point in the game's life cycle, there shouldn't be huge swings in any direction like there is. And with the constantly evolving PVP and PVE being separate but balanced under one umbrella, you can't expect to actually balance either when you have to balance both simultaneously.

PVE players don't want nerfs, and some changes were done to reel that in, but it wasn't enough to really show for anything when you can't balance properly due to a two-sided combat system. If they did nerf properly for PVE, then some classes would be too weak in PVP. But if they did nerf properly, they'd see that some end-game content is just impossible with classes not doing enough damage. But then they can't really buff anything that's underperforming significantly either, because that hurts PVP...

It's a cycle. It won't be fixed without separating the game modes. I'd love to see some new skills in every class, possible some buffs and debuffs added to the game, that only effect pvp and some that only effect pve. For example, who uses Encase and its morphs in PVE? This could be a completely different skill that doesn't effect PVP at all for PVE. There's tons of skills like this, and many buffs that could be added if they didn't effect pvp and vice verse.

Dr_Con · March 2023

I don't know why we don't see more adjustments to Battle Spirit