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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
Which Warden player hurt you so bad that you've gutted Warden so bad?
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ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »emilyhyoyeon wrote: »The winters revenge destruction staff change is probably in response to the requests over years to make frost mages viable. Not saying I agree with it, but it's pretty clear that's the reasoning
Well, if it was, it'd only be for the frost staff. I don't think the fire or shock staff is necessarily a frost mage item. I think it was an overall decision for their concept of magden.
Even as someone who mostly plays frostden, this isn't a good idea because it just locks needed damage away from people who don't run a destruction staff.
They might be testing this out for future skills. On it’s own, it’s bad. But if it was specific to Frost Staves and then other skills got buffed dependant on equipped weapon it could push toward build diversity.
i definitely think this is a testing ground for future class skill and set changes to help outline more rigid class identities. this implementation certainly isn't amazing, but it if they managed to make it fair for specific weapon types, or provided some other bonus for weapons not of the intended type then you could probably see a lot more people accepting this type of idea.
You’re right about the implementation. I think it would be far simpler as I’ve said before, to split the Destro Staves into separate skill lines, add an Arcane or Disease Staff and then the passives could be more specific in what kind of skills they buff. I think build identity can be tackled in 2 ways:
1. Class identity is defined by theme. Such as Animals, nature and Frost/Bleed Damage.
2. Weapon Identity is defined by play style. Single Target, AoE, DoT etc.
By combining the two you can tailor you build into a specific build that feels different to alternatives.
They already do this with to an extent with the Destro Passive as an example. However, by splitting the staves up you can focus on these differences more so. For example: Flame Staff could have more damaging single target DoTs. Lightning Staff have more damaging AoE abilities and Frost Staff could have stronger AoE DoT’s. Arcane could be Single Target Direct. Currently the ‘differences’ between the staves feels like an afterthought, by splitting them up you can make them feel truly unique and give them more character to stand out.
i wish they'd say if they were planning this on a larger scale. because it's just utterly bizarre to see this sitting here.
I agree. This is why the differences feel so slight that they don't matter... only they do. Inferno Staff is undisputed BiS for single target and about as good for AoE, but this is because the disparity between the different staves is not great enough for the other two to make 'real' differences outside of a status effects or two and certain effects that don't really do enough to make them feel distinct.
it would be nice if they addressed the problem at the source with the frost and shock staves, but it's really hard to balance the nature of tank frost staves and dps frost staves seperately. i know a couple of ways to do it, but they're certainly a bit janky to say the least.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »emilyhyoyeon wrote: »The winters revenge destruction staff change is probably in response to the requests over years to make frost mages viable. Not saying I agree with it, but it's pretty clear that's the reasoning
Well, if it was, it'd only be for the frost staff. I don't think the fire or shock staff is necessarily a frost mage item. I think it was an overall decision for their concept of magden.
Even as someone who mostly plays frostden, this isn't a good idea because it just locks needed damage away from people who don't run a destruction staff.
They might be testing this out for future skills. On it’s own, it’s bad. But if it was specific to Frost Staves and then other skills got buffed dependant on equipped weapon it could push toward build diversity.
i definitely think this is a testing ground for future class skill and set changes to help outline more rigid class identities. this implementation certainly isn't amazing, but it if they managed to make it fair for specific weapon types, or provided some other bonus for weapons not of the intended type then you could probably see a lot more people accepting this type of idea.
You’re right about the implementation. I think it would be far simpler as I’ve said before, to split the Destro Staves into separate skill lines, add an Arcane or Disease Staff and then the passives could be more specific in what kind of skills they buff. I think build identity can be tackled in 2 ways:
1. Class identity is defined by theme. Such as Animals, nature and Frost/Bleed Damage.
2. Weapon Identity is defined by play style. Single Target, AoE, DoT etc.
By combining the two you can tailor you build into a specific build that feels different to alternatives.
They already do this with to an extent with the Destro Passive as an example. However, by splitting the staves up you can focus on these differences more so. For example: Flame Staff could have more damaging single target DoTs. Lightning Staff have more damaging AoE abilities and Frost Staff could have stronger AoE DoT’s. Arcane could be Single Target Direct. Currently the ‘differences’ between the staves feels like an afterthought, by splitting them up you can make them feel truly unique and give them more character to stand out.
i wish they'd say if they were planning this on a larger scale. because it's just utterly bizarre to see this sitting here.
I agree. This is why the differences feel so slight that they don't matter... only they do. Inferno Staff is undisputed BiS for single target and about as good for AoE, but this is because the disparity between the different staves is not great enough for the other two to make 'real' differences outside of a status effects or two and certain effects that don't really do enough to make them feel distinct.
it would be nice if they addressed the problem at the source with the frost and shock staves, but it's really hard to balance the nature of tank frost staves and dps frost staves seperately. i know a couple of ways to do it, but they're certainly a bit janky to say the least.
I don't think it would be too difficult. All you need is a taunt morph on one of the skills perhaps a single target DoT and perhaps another defensive AoE that offers Protection. The rest could remain DPS and it wouldn't hurt it, Maim is already inbuilt with Chill.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »emilyhyoyeon wrote: »The winters revenge destruction staff change is probably in response to the requests over years to make frost mages viable. Not saying I agree with it, but it's pretty clear that's the reasoning
Well, if it was, it'd only be for the frost staff. I don't think the fire or shock staff is necessarily a frost mage item. I think it was an overall decision for their concept of magden.
Even as someone who mostly plays frostden, this isn't a good idea because it just locks needed damage away from people who don't run a destruction staff.
They might be testing this out for future skills. On it’s own, it’s bad. But if it was specific to Frost Staves and then other skills got buffed dependant on equipped weapon it could push toward build diversity.
i definitely think this is a testing ground for future class skill and set changes to help outline more rigid class identities. this implementation certainly isn't amazing, but it if they managed to make it fair for specific weapon types, or provided some other bonus for weapons not of the intended type then you could probably see a lot more people accepting this type of idea.
You’re right about the implementation. I think it would be far simpler as I’ve said before, to split the Destro Staves into separate skill lines, add an Arcane or Disease Staff and then the passives could be more specific in what kind of skills they buff. I think build identity can be tackled in 2 ways:
1. Class identity is defined by theme. Such as Animals, nature and Frost/Bleed Damage.
2. Weapon Identity is defined by play style. Single Target, AoE, DoT etc.
By combining the two you can tailor you build into a specific build that feels different to alternatives.
They already do this with to an extent with the Destro Passive as an example. However, by splitting the staves up you can focus on these differences more so. For example: Flame Staff could have more damaging single target DoTs. Lightning Staff have more damaging AoE abilities and Frost Staff could have stronger AoE DoT’s. Arcane could be Single Target Direct. Currently the ‘differences’ between the staves feels like an afterthought, by splitting them up you can make them feel truly unique and give them more character to stand out.
i wish they'd say if they were planning this on a larger scale. because it's just utterly bizarre to see this sitting here.
I agree. This is why the differences feel so slight that they don't matter... only they do. Inferno Staff is undisputed BiS for single target and about as good for AoE, but this is because the disparity between the different staves is not great enough for the other two to make 'real' differences outside of a status effects or two and certain effects that don't really do enough to make them feel distinct.
it would be nice if they addressed the problem at the source with the frost and shock staves, but it's really hard to balance the nature of tank frost staves and dps frost staves seperately. i know a couple of ways to do it, but they're certainly a bit janky to say the least.
I don't think it would be too difficult. All you need is a taunt morph on one of the skills perhaps a single target DoT and perhaps another defensive AoE that offers Protection. The rest could remain DPS and it wouldn't hurt it, Maim is already inbuilt with Chill.
It already has that. I'm confused?PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »emilyhyoyeon wrote: »The winters revenge destruction staff change is probably in response to the requests over years to make frost mages viable. Not saying I agree with it, but it's pretty clear that's the reasoning
Well, if it was, it'd only be for the frost staff. I don't think the fire or shock staff is necessarily a frost mage item. I think it was an overall decision for their concept of magden.
Even as someone who mostly plays frostden, this isn't a good idea because it just locks needed damage away from people who don't run a destruction staff.
They might be testing this out for future skills. On it’s own, it’s bad. But if it was specific to Frost Staves and then other skills got buffed dependant on equipped weapon it could push toward build diversity.
i definitely think this is a testing ground for future class skill and set changes to help outline more rigid class identities. this implementation certainly isn't amazing, but it if they managed to make it fair for specific weapon types, or provided some other bonus for weapons not of the intended type then you could probably see a lot more people accepting this type of idea.
You’re right about the implementation. I think it would be far simpler as I’ve said before, to split the Destro Staves into separate skill lines, add an Arcane or Disease Staff and then the passives could be more specific in what kind of skills they buff. I think build identity can be tackled in 2 ways:
1. Class identity is defined by theme. Such as Animals, nature and Frost/Bleed Damage.
2. Weapon Identity is defined by play style. Single Target, AoE, DoT etc.
By combining the two you can tailor you build into a specific build that feels different to alternatives.
They already do this with to an extent with the Destro Passive as an example. However, by splitting the staves up you can focus on these differences more so. For example: Flame Staff could have more damaging single target DoTs. Lightning Staff have more damaging AoE abilities and Frost Staff could have stronger AoE DoT’s. Arcane could be Single Target Direct. Currently the ‘differences’ between the staves feels like an afterthought, by splitting them up you can make them feel truly unique and give them more character to stand out.
i wish they'd say if they were planning this on a larger scale. because it's just utterly bizarre to see this sitting here.
I agree. This is why the differences feel so slight that they don't matter... only they do. Inferno Staff is undisputed BiS for single target and about as good for AoE, but this is because the disparity between the different staves is not great enough for the other two to make 'real' differences outside of a status effects or two and certain effects that don't really do enough to make them feel distinct.
it would be nice if they addressed the problem at the source with the frost and shock staves, but it's really hard to balance the nature of tank frost staves and dps frost staves seperately. i know a couple of ways to do it, but they're certainly a bit janky to say the least.
I don't think it would be too difficult. All you need is a taunt morph on one of the skills perhaps a single target DoT and perhaps another defensive AoE that offers Protection. The rest could remain DPS and it wouldn't hurt it, Maim is already inbuilt with Chill.
It already has that. I'm confused?
Taunt shouldn’t be a morph of a DPS option. The entire skill line should be separated out to make room for better options. I would argue Weakness to Elements is largely redundant now with Hybridization. I mean outside of Magicka Steal which I admit is good, there isn’t much going for it. I would change it into a single target DoT that applies Breach and different elements would have different effects. The taunt could go on the other morph. I’d probably ditch Force Shock and just have Reach and Clench serve as the DPS skill for all staves. This would free up a skill slot for something new tailor made for each element. Anyway, like I said I’ve been writing a lot recently and Destro Staff is something I’ve been thinking hard about for a couple of months now.1 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »emilyhyoyeon wrote: »The winters revenge destruction staff change is probably in response to the requests over years to make frost mages viable. Not saying I agree with it, but it's pretty clear that's the reasoning
Well, if it was, it'd only be for the frost staff. I don't think the fire or shock staff is necessarily a frost mage item. I think it was an overall decision for their concept of magden.
Even as someone who mostly plays frostden, this isn't a good idea because it just locks needed damage away from people who don't run a destruction staff.
They might be testing this out for future skills. On it’s own, it’s bad. But if it was specific to Frost Staves and then other skills got buffed dependant on equipped weapon it could push toward build diversity.
i definitely think this is a testing ground for future class skill and set changes to help outline more rigid class identities. this implementation certainly isn't amazing, but it if they managed to make it fair for specific weapon types, or provided some other bonus for weapons not of the intended type then you could probably see a lot more people accepting this type of idea.
You’re right about the implementation. I think it would be far simpler as I’ve said before, to split the Destro Staves into separate skill lines, add an Arcane or Disease Staff and then the passives could be more specific in what kind of skills they buff. I think build identity can be tackled in 2 ways:
1. Class identity is defined by theme. Such as Animals, nature and Frost/Bleed Damage.
2. Weapon Identity is defined by play style. Single Target, AoE, DoT etc.
By combining the two you can tailor you build into a specific build that feels different to alternatives.
They already do this with to an extent with the Destro Passive as an example. However, by splitting the staves up you can focus on these differences more so. For example: Flame Staff could have more damaging single target DoTs. Lightning Staff have more damaging AoE abilities and Frost Staff could have stronger AoE DoT’s. Arcane could be Single Target Direct. Currently the ‘differences’ between the staves feels like an afterthought, by splitting them up you can make them feel truly unique and give them more character to stand out.
i wish they'd say if they were planning this on a larger scale. because it's just utterly bizarre to see this sitting here.
I agree. This is why the differences feel so slight that they don't matter... only they do. Inferno Staff is undisputed BiS for single target and about as good for AoE, but this is because the disparity between the different staves is not great enough for the other two to make 'real' differences outside of a status effects or two and certain effects that don't really do enough to make them feel distinct.
it would be nice if they addressed the problem at the source with the frost and shock staves, but it's really hard to balance the nature of tank frost staves and dps frost staves seperately. i know a couple of ways to do it, but they're certainly a bit janky to say the least.
I mean we've talked about different ways to make it work but really there's no way that feels great. The real issue is Destro staff was designed to be a DPS Skill Line, Shoving Tanking up it's tailpipe doesn't make it work no matter how you stir around the passives. If Zos wants to make a Tanking Skill Line Comparable to Sword and Shield, then it needs to be Tanking from the ground up not some Pseudo Tanking thing that Frost was made into. Once that is done then we can look at what Fire, Shock, and Frost can bring to the table. I think that each of them should have a damage boost of their respective element of some sort, then lead into something unique, Fire Leans into Damage over Time, Frost Leans into Critical Chance and Damage, Shock can do something else, maybe Shock Status effects chain or something. Point is Let Destruction Staff be a DPS tool as it was intended, every Element should be useful in a Group Setting.
I've resigned myself to not really get anything that I want to see out of Warden or ESO moving forward unless Zos makes some drastic changes, I still like to come up with rework Ideas and ESO is just ripe with things that need to be fixed.Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup4 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »emilyhyoyeon wrote: »The winters revenge destruction staff change is probably in response to the requests over years to make frost mages viable. Not saying I agree with it, but it's pretty clear that's the reasoning
Well, if it was, it'd only be for the frost staff. I don't think the fire or shock staff is necessarily a frost mage item. I think it was an overall decision for their concept of magden.
Even as someone who mostly plays frostden, this isn't a good idea because it just locks needed damage away from people who don't run a destruction staff.
They might be testing this out for future skills. On it’s own, it’s bad. But if it was specific to Frost Staves and then other skills got buffed dependant on equipped weapon it could push toward build diversity.
i definitely think this is a testing ground for future class skill and set changes to help outline more rigid class identities. this implementation certainly isn't amazing, but it if they managed to make it fair for specific weapon types, or provided some other bonus for weapons not of the intended type then you could probably see a lot more people accepting this type of idea.
You’re right about the implementation. I think it would be far simpler as I’ve said before, to split the Destro Staves into separate skill lines, add an Arcane or Disease Staff and then the passives could be more specific in what kind of skills they buff. I think build identity can be tackled in 2 ways:
1. Class identity is defined by theme. Such as Animals, nature and Frost/Bleed Damage.
2. Weapon Identity is defined by play style. Single Target, AoE, DoT etc.
By combining the two you can tailor you build into a specific build that feels different to alternatives.
They already do this with to an extent with the Destro Passive as an example. However, by splitting the staves up you can focus on these differences more so. For example: Flame Staff could have more damaging single target DoTs. Lightning Staff have more damaging AoE abilities and Frost Staff could have stronger AoE DoT’s. Arcane could be Single Target Direct. Currently the ‘differences’ between the staves feels like an afterthought, by splitting them up you can make them feel truly unique and give them more character to stand out.
i wish they'd say if they were planning this on a larger scale. because it's just utterly bizarre to see this sitting here.
I agree. This is why the differences feel so slight that they don't matter... only they do. Inferno Staff is undisputed BiS for single target and about as good for AoE, but this is because the disparity between the different staves is not great enough for the other two to make 'real' differences outside of a status effects or two and certain effects that don't really do enough to make them feel distinct.
it would be nice if they addressed the problem at the source with the frost and shock staves, but it's really hard to balance the nature of tank frost staves and dps frost staves seperately. i know a couple of ways to do it, but they're certainly a bit janky to say the least.
I mean we've talked about different ways to make it work but really there's no way that feels great. The real issue is Destro staff was designed to be a DPS Skill Line, Shoving Tanking up it's tailpipe doesn't make it work no matter how you stir around the passives. If Zos wants to make a Tanking Skill Line Comparable to Sword and Shield, then it needs to be Tanking from the ground up not some Pseudo Tanking thing that Frost was made into. Once that is done then we can look at what Fire, Shock, and Frost can bring to the table. I think that each of them should have a damage boost of their respective element of some sort, then lead into something unique, Fire Leans into Damage over Time, Frost Leans into Critical Chance and Damage, Shock can do something else, maybe Shock Status effects chain or something. Point is Let Destruction Staff be a DPS tool as it was intended, every Element should be useful in a Group Setting.
I've resigned myself to not really get anything that I want to see out of Warden or ESO moving forward unless Zos makes some drastic changes, I still like to come up with rework Ideas and ESO is just ripe with things that need to be fixed.
Although I agree in general I don’t agree that Tanking morphs or passives can not be added to Frost Staff. 2 morphs won’t kill its viability as a DPS option just as 2 DPS morphs won’t kills Sword and Board as a main Tank line. But yes you’re right about ESO being ripe with things that need fixing.
One major problem with the newer classes in particular is the very fact that they have a full tanking skill line. On the surface, it makes sense but when you actually look at how many people play tank it’s actually quite small. This is due to the way the game is set up. Tanking and Healers are essentially only needed in group content. This is a very small percentage of the full game experience. Most of the game is solo and thus damage is more beneficial due to enemies not being particularly threatening outside of arenas, and even then one or two defensive buffs are all that’s needed. They could add a hard mode to the main game and this would change the value of tank skills but until then the usage that tanking skills get opposed to damage and buff skills will always be significantly less.
As for your suggested play types, I don’t agree that Flame Staff should be the defacto DoT staff nor the others be “this is the ____ staff.” It’s too one dimensional. I think a better way of balancing them is to look at the four damage types and then decide which ones excel in what area. For example:
Inferno Staff:
Single Target Direct: Strong
Single Target DoT: Strongest
AoE Direct: Average
AoE DoT: Good
Lightning Staff:
Single Target Direct: Strong
Single Target DoT: Good
AoE Direct: Strongest
AoE DoT: Average
Ice Staff:
Single Target: Strong
Single Target DoT: Good
AoE Direct: Average
AoE DoT: Strongest
Arcane Staff:
Single Target Direct: Strongest
Single Target DoT: Average
AoE Direct: Strong
AoE DoT: Good
This way all staves have areas they excel in but at the same time they aren’t one dimensional as in “This is the DoT staff” “This is the AoE staff” etc etc.Edited by MindOfTheSwarm on August 16, 2022 5:13AM0 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Whiskey_JG wrote: »A word of advice from someone who once spent many years in this game as a very active member of the Magden community. This class is likely never going to be perfect. I held out hope for years working with both unofficial and official representatives using my experience with this and every other class in the game to outline major balance issue. I hoped that it would get better, but from the looks of things I guess it never did. I left... a long time ago. The cool thing is, after a couple of months away from this game, things that use to bother me like horrible skill timings, incomplete skill kits, the lack of build diversity, the abject lack of internal skill synergy, useless abilities, and the out of the blue game breaking nerfs based on external standardization efforts just didn't matter any more. If any of you find that this game is causing you undue stress, that what's happening in game is getting in the way of you actually enjoying life, I implore you, please take a break or do what I did and just move on. Believe me... I've been there. You want to play the game because you still love what it once was but every disappointing patch just drains you of all hope and enthusiasm but a change of pace will do wonders for your perspective and outlook. Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Life is short and its just not worth it to torture yourself like this.
This might be the best advice I've read in this forum. Just the thought that I have to relearn medium weaving is giving me stress.
I have decided to do the same, I will be walking away from it gradually. To be honest the only thing still keeping me active is my scorepush group. If that disbands, I will play other games or focus on other aspirations.
It is also healthy for both you personally and the community in general, to diversify the games you play. Different games will provide you with additional perspective and it might change the way you look at ESO.
looks like medium weaving will be fixed before release. Skinny Cheeks did a video recently on this, and got confirmation that the buff to medium weaving was not intended and the empower buff will only work with fully charged heavy attacks on the live version of U352 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »Whiskey_JG wrote: »A word of advice from someone who once spent many years in this game as a very active member of the Magden community. This class is likely never going to be perfect. I held out hope for years working with both unofficial and official representatives using my experience with this and every other class in the game to outline major balance issue. I hoped that it would get better, but from the looks of things I guess it never did. I left... a long time ago. The cool thing is, after a couple of months away from this game, things that use to bother me like horrible skill timings, incomplete skill kits, the lack of build diversity, the abject lack of internal skill synergy, useless abilities, and the out of the blue game breaking nerfs based on external standardization efforts just didn't matter any more. If any of you find that this game is causing you undue stress, that what's happening in game is getting in the way of you actually enjoying life, I implore you, please take a break or do what I did and just move on. Believe me... I've been there. You want to play the game because you still love what it once was but every disappointing patch just drains you of all hope and enthusiasm but a change of pace will do wonders for your perspective and outlook. Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Life is short and its just not worth it to torture yourself like this.
This might be the best advice I've read in this forum. Just the thought that I have to relearn medium weaving is giving me stress.
I have decided to do the same, I will be walking away from it gradually. To be honest the only thing still keeping me active is my scorepush group. If that disbands, I will play other games or focus on other aspirations.
It is also healthy for both you personally and the community in general, to diversify the games you play. Different games will provide you with additional perspective and it might change the way you look at ESO.
looks like medium weaving will be fixed before release. Skinny Cheeks did a video recently on this, and got confirmation that the buff to medium weaving was not intended and the empower buff will only work with fully charged heavy attacks on the live version of U35
Good.1 -
MacRibs✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Although I agree in general I don’t agree that Tanking morphs or passives can not be added to Frost Staff. 2 morphs won’t kill its viability as a DPS option just as 2 DPS morphs won’t kills Sword and Board as a main Tank line. But yes you’re right about ESO being ripe with things that need fixing.
What's killing frost staves viability as a DD option its not the morphs, its the passives, "Tri Focus" and "Ancient Knowledge" give 0 offensive bonus to frost staves, its all defensive.
Even with minor brittle is not even close to the other staves passives.
The only benefits to a warden of using a frost staves were frost Destructive Touch and light attack damage due to "Piercing Cold" with the recent light attack nerfs there is really no point in using a frost staff as a DD except for the style.
People around here always ask for frost shalks and more Animal Companions frost skills but what's the point of having frost shalks if it'll still do more damage with a lightning staff equipped than a frost staff?
1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Although I agree in general I don’t agree that Tanking morphs or passives can not be added to Frost Staff. 2 morphs won’t kill its viability as a DPS option just as 2 DPS morphs won’t kills Sword and Board as a main Tank line. But yes you’re right about ESO being ripe with things that need fixing.
What's killing frost staves viability as a DD option its not the morphs, its the passives, "Tri Focus" and "Ancient Knowledge" give 0 offensive bonus to frost staves, its all defensive.
Even with minor brittle is not even close to the other staves passives.
The only benefits to a warden of using a frost staves were frost Destructive Touch and light attack damage due to "Piercing Cold" with the recent light attack nerfs there is really no point in using a frost staff as a DD except for the style.
People around here always ask for frost shalks and more Animal Companions frost skills but what's the point of having frost shalks if it'll still do more damage with a lightning staff equipped than a frost staff?
frostbite is pretty much the reason.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
MacRibs✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Although I agree in general I don’t agree that Tanking morphs or passives can not be added to Frost Staff. 2 morphs won’t kill its viability as a DPS option just as 2 DPS morphs won’t kills Sword and Board as a main Tank line. But yes you’re right about ESO being ripe with things that need fixing.
What's killing frost staves viability as a DD option its not the morphs, its the passives, "Tri Focus" and "Ancient Knowledge" give 0 offensive bonus to frost staves, its all defensive.
Even with minor brittle is not even close to the other staves passives.
The only benefits to a warden of using a frost staves were frost Destructive Touch and light attack damage due to "Piercing Cold" with the recent light attack nerfs there is really no point in using a frost staff as a DD except for the style.
People around here always ask for frost shalks and more Animal Companions frost skills but what's the point of having frost shalks if it'll still do more damage with a lightning staff equipped than a frost staff?
frostbite is pretty much the reason.
Limiting a play style by only making it viable with a single set doesn't seem like a solution to me, you could change all Animal Companions to frost damage and still get better dps using 2h/dw or lightning/inferno staves.
A warden has access to two different frost skill lines, "Winter's Embrace" and frost variants of "Destruction Staff" which should provide decent options to enable the play style but don't, with the latter being the biggest hurdle for viable frost DD's builds.
People have given excellent and insightful feedback around here and I agree with most of you but just changing a damage type from a skill or skill line wont fix anything.1 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Limiting a play style by only making it viable with a single set doesn't seem like a solution to me, you could change all Animal Companions to frost damage and still get better dps using 2h/dw or lightning/inferno staves.
A warden has access to two different frost skill lines, "Winter's Embrace" and frost variants of "Destruction Staff" which should provide decent options to enable the play style but don't, with the latter being the biggest hurdle for viable frost DD's builds.
People have given excellent and insightful feedback around here and I agree with most of you but just changing a damage type from a skill or skill line wont fix anything.
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more class cohesion, I think the best example is Dragonknight just getting Fire Damage across ALL of it's trees for ALL of it's magic morphs, because Dragonknights are walking Fiery Cataclysms, they have Skills and Passives that benefit from that.
Why shouldn't other classes want that? Why should you look at Winter's Embrace and Frost Staff and think, "Yeah that's Good Enough." As long as people are simply content with the way things are, we get more Patches like U35, don't be content, demand better, or find something that respects your time better.Edited by Mr_Stach on August 16, 2022 4:19PMAltoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup5 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Although I agree in general I don’t agree that Tanking morphs or passives can not be added to Frost Staff. 2 morphs won’t kill its viability as a DPS option just as 2 DPS morphs won’t kills Sword and Board as a main Tank line. But yes you’re right about ESO being ripe with things that need fixing.
What's killing frost staves viability as a DD option its not the morphs, its the passives, "Tri Focus" and "Ancient Knowledge" give 0 offensive bonus to frost staves, its all defensive.
Even with minor brittle is not even close to the other staves passives.
The only benefits to a warden of using a frost staves were frost Destructive Touch and light attack damage due to "Piercing Cold" with the recent light attack nerfs there is really no point in using a frost staff as a DD except for the style.
People around here always ask for frost shalks and more Animal Companions frost skills but what's the point of having frost shalks if it'll still do more damage with a lightning staff equipped than a frost staff?
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I actually really like the defensive bonuses to ice staff. It makes me feel much more safe and sturdy as both a dps and healer, also enabling the idea of an ice/ice tank. I do think something should be done about elemental damage though. Maybe having an ice staff equipped increases frost damage + increases chill damage + of course, brittle. Lightning could increase shock damage + have a chance for chain lightning + of course, off balance. I’m not sure why they don’t increase elemental damage already… inferno already kind of does (wall of elements does more damage to burning enemies iirc).
PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
2 -
Remathilis✭✭✭✭✭
✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »They had months of feedback from people complaining about much of the Warden skill lines and they acted on it.
I kinda feel that was the main theme of this patch: a lot of vocal players who complained about classes they DON'T play got their wishes. Which is why every class was gutted. People complained about jabs? Gutted. Scorch? Weakened. Crystal Weapon? Nerfed. DK sustain? That was last patch. NB ganks? Goodbye stun.
This is the net result of calling for nerfs constantly; eventually they beat everyone down into the mud.7 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Although I agree in general I don’t agree that Tanking morphs or passives can not be added to Frost Staff. 2 morphs won’t kill its viability as a DPS option just as 2 DPS morphs won’t kills Sword and Board as a main Tank line. But yes you’re right about ESO being ripe with things that need fixing.
What's killing frost staves viability as a DD option its not the morphs, its the passives, "Tri Focus" and "Ancient Knowledge" give 0 offensive bonus to frost staves, its all defensive.
Even with minor brittle is not even close to the other staves passives.
The only benefits to a warden of using a frost staves were frost Destructive Touch and light attack damage due to "Piercing Cold" with the recent light attack nerfs there is really no point in using a frost staff as a DD except for the style.
People around here always ask for frost shalks and more Animal Companions frost skills but what's the point of having frost shalks if it'll still do more damage with a lightning staff equipped than a frost staff?
frostbite is pretty much the reason.
Limiting a play style by only making it viable with a single set doesn't seem like a solution to me, you could change all Animal Companions to frost damage and still get better dps using 2h/dw or lightning/inferno staves.
A warden has access to two different frost skill lines, "Winter's Embrace" and frost variants of "Destruction Staff" which should provide decent options to enable the play style but don't, with the latter being the biggest hurdle for viable frost DD's builds.
People have given excellent and insightful feedback around here and I agree with most of you but just changing a damage type from a skill or skill line wont fix anything.
changing it's damage type does help include more skills that can benefit from frost related bonuses as currently there aren't very many. the impact it has for frost related builds is pretty solid, and it does nothing to other builds. it's one of those changes that only really has a positive impact on builds.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
MacRibs✭✭✭
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more class cohesion, I think the best example is Dragonknight just getting Fire Damage across ALL of it's trees for ALL of it's magic morphs, because Dragonknights are walking Fiery Cataclysms, they have Skills and Passives that benefit from that.
Why shouldn't other classes want that? Why should you look at Winter's Embrace and Frost Staff and think, "Yeah that's Good Enough." As long as people are simply content with the way things are, we get more Patches like U35, don't be content, demand better, or find something that respects your time better.
My argument is not that you should stay content with what you have, I'm not disagreeing with you on class identity but I'll say that regarding cohesion in dmg types much like sorcerers with Storm Calling and Dark Magic its not cohesion the warden lacks, you have a full magic damage skill line and a full frost damage skill line, there's no mix damage types in the same skill lines like the Dragon Knights had. Not saying its best or worse but incoherent it is not.
What I'm arguing is that for a frost warden, or any frost build for that matter, to be VIABLE simply having more frost skills is not the starting point of a solution, there is a difference between fantasy and viability, if they gave us frost shalks there still be no point using ice staves because you'll be losing dps compared to other weapons.
Like you said do not be content with how things stand don't just hope for a change in dmg type for a skill because there's is a set that might make it viable, ice staff Ancient Knowledge bonuses are scraps from two other passives from the One Hand and Shield skill line and while it stays that way no matter what skills you use/get Ice staff builds wont be viable/on par with other weapons.
1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more class cohesion, I think the best example is Dragonknight just getting Fire Damage across ALL of it's trees for ALL of it's magic morphs, because Dragonknights are walking Fiery Cataclysms, they have Skills and Passives that benefit from that.
Why shouldn't other classes want that? Why should you look at Winter's Embrace and Frost Staff and think, "Yeah that's Good Enough." As long as people are simply content with the way things are, we get more Patches like U35, don't be content, demand better, or find something that respects your time better.
My argument is not that you should stay content with what you have, I'm not disagreeing with you on class identity but I'll say that regarding cohesion in dmg types much like sorcerers with Storm Calling and Dark Magic its not cohesion the warden lacks, you have a full magic damage skill line and a full frost damage skill line, there's no mix damage types in the same skill lines like the Dragon Knights had. Not saying its best or worse but incoherent it is not.
What I'm arguing is that for a frost warden, or any frost build for that matter, to be VIABLE simply having more frost skills is not the starting point of a solution, there is a difference between fantasy and viability, if they gave us frost shalks there still be no point using ice staves because you'll be losing dps compared to other weapons.
Like you said do not be content with how things stand don't just hope for a change in dmg type for a skill because there's is a set that might make it viable, ice staff Ancient Knowledge bonuses are scraps from two other passives from the One Hand and Shield skill line and while it stays that way no matter what skills you use/get Ice staff builds wont be viable/on par with other weapons.
I just want to back up and re-iterate that Warden doesn't really have a Frost "damage" skill line - they have a tanking/utility skill line that happens to have Frost Damage effects in it. That's one of the giant peeves of Frost Wardens, that the "masters of ice" have had only Winter's Embrace as a viable damage skill until this patch with Arctic Blast joining it.
But it still doesn't change the situation that the rest of the skills in that line are all utility and tanking skills that are completely useless for us in dealing damage. That's why we would like some of the randomly Magic Damage skills converted to Frost.
And like, one of the more odious aspects of Frost Warden is that they have dead morphs that are just begging for re-works, such as Frozen Gate/Cliff Racer as well as dead passives like Icy Aura. But that's all been discussed before and is a topic for another day.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more class cohesion, I think the best example is Dragonknight just getting Fire Damage across ALL of it's trees for ALL of it's magic morphs, because Dragonknights are walking Fiery Cataclysms, they have Skills and Passives that benefit from that.
Why shouldn't other classes want that? Why should you look at Winter's Embrace and Frost Staff and think, "Yeah that's Good Enough." As long as people are simply content with the way things are, we get more Patches like U35, don't be content, demand better, or find something that respects your time better.
My argument is not that you should stay content with what you have, I'm not disagreeing with you on class identity but I'll say that regarding cohesion in dmg types much like sorcerers with Storm Calling and Dark Magic its not cohesion the warden lacks, you have a full magic damage skill line and a full frost damage skill line, there's no mix damage types in the same skill lines like the Dragon Knights had. Not saying its best or worse but incoherent it is not.
What I'm arguing is that for a frost warden, or any frost build for that matter, to be VIABLE simply having more frost skills is not the starting point of a solution, there is a difference between fantasy and viability, if they gave us frost shalks there still be no point using ice staves because you'll be losing dps compared to other weapons.
Like you said do not be content with how things stand don't just hope for a change in dmg type for a skill because there's is a set that might make it viable, ice staff Ancient Knowledge bonuses are scraps from two other passives from the One Hand and Shield skill line and while it stays that way no matter what skills you use/get Ice staff builds wont be viable/on par with other weapons.
yeah, just having more frost damage skills doesn't fix every problem, but what it does do is give a lot more benefit out of sets like frostbite. and the other thing is that we need some bonus, whether it be set or a passive effect, to chilled's direct damage tick. that's the single thing that will really enable running a full frost damage build. i'm not claiming that frost damage shalks fixes every problem, but it fixes a problem in the list.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more class cohesion, I think the best example is Dragonknight just getting Fire Damage across ALL of it's trees for ALL of it's magic morphs, because Dragonknights are walking Fiery Cataclysms, they have Skills and Passives that benefit from that.
Why shouldn't other classes want that? Why should you look at Winter's Embrace and Frost Staff and think, "Yeah that's Good Enough." As long as people are simply content with the way things are, we get more Patches like U35, don't be content, demand better, or find something that respects your time better.
My argument is not that you should stay content with what you have, I'm not disagreeing with you on class identity but I'll say that regarding cohesion in dmg types much like sorcerers with Storm Calling and Dark Magic its not cohesion the warden lacks, you have a full magic damage skill line and a full frost damage skill line, there's no mix damage types in the same skill lines like the Dragon Knights had. Not saying its best or worse but incoherent it is not.
What I'm arguing is that for a frost warden, or any frost build for that matter, to be VIABLE simply having more frost skills is not the starting point of a solution, there is a difference between fantasy and viability, if they gave us frost shalks there still be no point using ice staves because you'll be losing dps compared to other weapons.
Like you said do not be content with how things stand don't just hope for a change in dmg type for a skill because there's is a set that might make it viable, ice staff Ancient Knowledge bonuses are scraps from two other passives from the One Hand and Shield skill line and while it stays that way no matter what skills you use/get Ice staff builds wont be viable/on par with other weapons.
yeah, just having more frost damage skills doesn't fix every problem, but what it does do is give a lot more benefit out of sets like frostbite. and the other thing is that we need some bonus, whether it be set or a passive effect, to chilled's direct damage tick. that's the single thing that will really enable running a full frost damage build. i'm not claiming that frost damage shalks fixes every problem, but it fixes a problem in the list.
Splitting Destro staves would be the easiest way of sorting everything out. Said it many times but I genuinely think it’s the way forward. Want me to share what I’ve come up with? Let me know. I can work on it with you and a few others if you want.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more class cohesion, I think the best example is Dragonknight just getting Fire Damage across ALL of it's trees for ALL of it's magic morphs, because Dragonknights are walking Fiery Cataclysms, they have Skills and Passives that benefit from that.
Why shouldn't other classes want that? Why should you look at Winter's Embrace and Frost Staff and think, "Yeah that's Good Enough." As long as people are simply content with the way things are, we get more Patches like U35, don't be content, demand better, or find something that respects your time better.
My argument is not that you should stay content with what you have, I'm not disagreeing with you on class identity but I'll say that regarding cohesion in dmg types much like sorcerers with Storm Calling and Dark Magic its not cohesion the warden lacks, you have a full magic damage skill line and a full frost damage skill line, there's no mix damage types in the same skill lines like the Dragon Knights had. Not saying its best or worse but incoherent it is not.
What I'm arguing is that for a frost warden, or any frost build for that matter, to be VIABLE simply having more frost skills is not the starting point of a solution, there is a difference between fantasy and viability, if they gave us frost shalks there still be no point using ice staves because you'll be losing dps compared to other weapons.
Like you said do not be content with how things stand don't just hope for a change in dmg type for a skill because there's is a set that might make it viable, ice staff Ancient Knowledge bonuses are scraps from two other passives from the One Hand and Shield skill line and while it stays that way no matter what skills you use/get Ice staff builds wont be viable/on par with other weapons.
yeah, just having more frost damage skills doesn't fix every problem, but what it does do is give a lot more benefit out of sets like frostbite. and the other thing is that we need some bonus, whether it be set or a passive effect, to chilled's direct damage tick. that's the single thing that will really enable running a full frost damage build. i'm not claiming that frost damage shalks fixes every problem, but it fixes a problem in the list.
Splitting Destro staves would be the easiest way of sorting everything out. Said it many times but I genuinely think it’s the way forward. Want me to share what I’ve come up with? Let me know. I can work on it with you and a few others if you want.
While i don't personally agree that it'd be the easiest way to go about things I'm always down to see this sort of thing. Feel free to jump on the frost discord and post your stuffPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more class cohesion, I think the best example is Dragonknight just getting Fire Damage across ALL of it's trees for ALL of it's magic morphs, because Dragonknights are walking Fiery Cataclysms, they have Skills and Passives that benefit from that.
Why shouldn't other classes want that? Why should you look at Winter's Embrace and Frost Staff and think, "Yeah that's Good Enough." As long as people are simply content with the way things are, we get more Patches like U35, don't be content, demand better, or find something that respects your time better.
My argument is not that you should stay content with what you have, I'm not disagreeing with you on class identity but I'll say that regarding cohesion in dmg types much like sorcerers with Storm Calling and Dark Magic its not cohesion the warden lacks, you have a full magic damage skill line and a full frost damage skill line, there's no mix damage types in the same skill lines like the Dragon Knights had. Not saying its best or worse but incoherent it is not.
What I'm arguing is that for a frost warden, or any frost build for that matter, to be VIABLE simply having more frost skills is not the starting point of a solution, there is a difference between fantasy and viability, if they gave us frost shalks there still be no point using ice staves because you'll be losing dps compared to other weapons.
Like you said do not be content with how things stand don't just hope for a change in dmg type for a skill because there's is a set that might make it viable, ice staff Ancient Knowledge bonuses are scraps from two other passives from the One Hand and Shield skill line and while it stays that way no matter what skills you use/get Ice staff builds wont be viable/on par with other weapons.
yeah, just having more frost damage skills doesn't fix every problem, but what it does do is give a lot more benefit out of sets like frostbite. and the other thing is that we need some bonus, whether it be set or a passive effect, to chilled's direct damage tick. that's the single thing that will really enable running a full frost damage build. i'm not claiming that frost damage shalks fixes every problem, but it fixes a problem in the list.
Splitting Destro staves would be the easiest way of sorting everything out. Said it many times but I genuinely think it’s the way forward. Want me to share what I’ve come up with? Let me know. I can work on it with you and a few others if you want.
While i don't personally agree that it'd be the easiest way to go about things I'm always down to see this sort of thing. Feel free to jump on the frost discord and post your stuff
What’s the link?0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more class cohesion, I think the best example is Dragonknight just getting Fire Damage across ALL of it's trees for ALL of it's magic morphs, because Dragonknights are walking Fiery Cataclysms, they have Skills and Passives that benefit from that.
Why shouldn't other classes want that? Why should you look at Winter's Embrace and Frost Staff and think, "Yeah that's Good Enough." As long as people are simply content with the way things are, we get more Patches like U35, don't be content, demand better, or find something that respects your time better.
My argument is not that you should stay content with what you have, I'm not disagreeing with you on class identity but I'll say that regarding cohesion in dmg types much like sorcerers with Storm Calling and Dark Magic its not cohesion the warden lacks, you have a full magic damage skill line and a full frost damage skill line, there's no mix damage types in the same skill lines like the Dragon Knights had. Not saying its best or worse but incoherent it is not.
What I'm arguing is that for a frost warden, or any frost build for that matter, to be VIABLE simply having more frost skills is not the starting point of a solution, there is a difference between fantasy and viability, if they gave us frost shalks there still be no point using ice staves because you'll be losing dps compared to other weapons.
Like you said do not be content with how things stand don't just hope for a change in dmg type for a skill because there's is a set that might make it viable, ice staff Ancient Knowledge bonuses are scraps from two other passives from the One Hand and Shield skill line and while it stays that way no matter what skills you use/get Ice staff builds wont be viable/on par with other weapons.
yeah, just having more frost damage skills doesn't fix every problem, but what it does do is give a lot more benefit out of sets like frostbite. and the other thing is that we need some bonus, whether it be set or a passive effect, to chilled's direct damage tick. that's the single thing that will really enable running a full frost damage build. i'm not claiming that frost damage shalks fixes every problem, but it fixes a problem in the list.
Splitting Destro staves would be the easiest way of sorting everything out. Said it many times but I genuinely think it’s the way forward. Want me to share what I’ve come up with? Let me know. I can work on it with you and a few others if you want.
While i don't personally agree that it'd be the easiest way to go about things I'm always down to see this sort of thing. Feel free to jump on the frost discord and post your stuff
What’s the link?
it's in my signature. but if you're mobile i can see why it's not showing up https://discord.gg/5PT3rQXPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭Hmm. Reading these comments gives me the impression the only thing magden is lacking is Ice staff as a dps option rather than a defensive/tank staff. Other than the fantasy and class identity... which sure, would be nice... but doubtful most important thing Warden needs.
Hell, inferno staff on my magdk fire demon is not even great anymore after hybridization. I prefer dual wield for the passives front bar. But for me, weapons and their passives is not that important when im considering how good a class is and whether i enjoy playing it. Theres got to be other things that would improve warden more than ice staff for dps.1 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Hmm. Reading these comments gives me the impression the only thing magden is lacking is Ice staff as a dps option rather than a defensive/tank staff. Other than the fantasy and class identity... which sure, would be nice... but doubtful most important thing Warden needs.
Hell, inferno staff on my magdk fire demon is not even great anymore after hybridization. I prefer dual wield for the passives front bar. But for me, weapons and their passives is not that important when im considering how good a class is and whether i enjoy playing it. Theres got to be other things that would improve warden more than ice staff for dps.
Well there's basically two sides to work out, the Frost Aspect of course needs work, there's Skills and Passive in Winter's Embrace that need to be reworked. The first step we want to address is unifying Damage across the Skill Trees, making magic damage to Frost, opens up the Piercing Cold passive to buff Bleed Damage.
"Fixing Warden" if such a thing is possible or on the table is like playing Sudoku, there's a lot of moving parts to consider. The Frost Damage is just one aspect that will make other changes make more sense.Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup2 -
Klingenlied✭✭✭✭A lot of stuff to unpack and a lot of suggestions. Some of them I kinda like a lot, like overall enabling more dps for frost staves.
For anyone thinking that this needs come from a rework of the staves .. I kinda disagree. This is an option of course. But a class specific passive that simply grants another boost to the specific staff type to assist with more competetive dps would be enough. Like additional crit when using a frost staff.
Anyway, right now, I don't even see this as a big issue. Especially Magden has become less fun due to the change to scorch. A skill shot whose second hit that occurs after 9 seconds is what you will be aiming for. 9 seconds where not a single time you are allowed to even accidently (like when "weirdly" your bar-change wasn't registered) press the button again before it has fired, nor are you allowed to miss because you will loose a real chunky part of your damage.
And for anyone not realizing: Just count 9 seconds. That is hell of a time, especially in PvP. So in regards to any kind of priority, I wouldn't even mind removing all frost from Warden as long as it is a class that starts to play better.
Now if you just add in the damage we loose with the animal companion passive changes, Magden is in a really weird spot. He will still work numbers wise. But gameplay will suffer, skill ceiling and floor will both increase without any kind of performance increase to make up for it. Even more so then before we might stay close to the enemy because now we got a heal that deals ok'ish damage over time as well while still having a spamable that wants us to get at range though whatever we do we should not move away further then 20 meters. What mess of class design is this?!
And yea, I am incredibly unhappy with how Magden got changed / not changed.
For me to make him fun and viable once again, Scorch and it's morphs should be cast "fast" and just enter a freakin' cooldown. Just be brave and do it!
Birds should no longer care about range.
Then there is natures grasp that could be removed and replaced completely, as well as frozen retreat (frozen gate morph) that could use the same treatment.
All the frost stuff? Is absolutely secondary to this. Before I get a broken class that fits some class-fantasy, I prefer a working class that has some class-fantasy issues.6 -
warich✭✭✭There's been no reason for them to hit warden this hard, and their cheeky "bleed over the top" excuse is just that- an excuse.
They continue to force the frost mage narrative, while also gutting the class of all damage potential and feeding it to being only a healer role.
It's disrespectful, especially for a class you have to pay for.Edited by warich on August 17, 2022 4:56PM7 -
Caribou77✭✭✭✭✭I think the simple answer to most of the struggles warden (especially magicka warden, who can’t crutch on 2handed wep skills) faces in PVP is that there’s no one on the dev team who enjoys playing the class. Unless you like the rp aspect, or nature theme, there’s no draw to using slow, weak skills that don’t synergize or synchronize well.
So U35 gives us a couple helpful upgrades (snare removal, burst heal - though the actual heal amount of arctic blast is looking mediocre), BUT RANDOMLY nerfs hard on Advanced Species and Deep Fissure. It’s a Frankenstein job on Warden, all the way.
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FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Aiming a flame staff all the time is a bit of a pain, so I go with a lightning staff on both bars for my Pet Sorc and several other characters.PC
PS4/PS50