The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Disappointing change to armoury
ajkb78
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To start with, I expected this change would come, so I'm disappointed rather than surprised. For 3 weeks you've shown what an excellent addition the armoury could have been, by making it usable in content. This isn't simply a console player whinge, it actually brought new utility to pc players by introducing a way of changing between vamp and non vamp and between different skill morphs. It was genuinely great. I would have bought a *lot* of armoury slots, as would a lot of my guildmates. I have 11 characters and I'd probably have bought at least 1 additional slot for each of them, plus the assistant (for convenience even if the assistant wasn't required to change between slots in content). So at a guess 15k crowns. And get this, I'd have bought all those extras, just for convenience, even if the basic 2 slots were freely usable by everyone in content by some kind of quick slot mechanism (thus avoiding accusations of p2w).
With it unusable in content? I might buy one, for my main, so I can set up as DD / tank / PvP. 1k crowns, but I wouldn't bother with an assistant because it's never going to be much hassle to visit a house to switch between only 2 setups.
I know you're doing what you're doing to make money, but I think you haven't understood how to make the *most* money from this.
I just hope you have a plan B, for when you hardly sell any armory slots next patch, that will let you introduce some level of use in content without leaving the early adopters feeling short changed.
With it unusable in content? I might buy one, for my main, so I can set up as DD / tank / PvP. 1k crowns, but I wouldn't bother with an assistant because it's never going to be much hassle to visit a house to switch between only 2 setups.
I know you're doing what you're doing to make money, but I think you haven't understood how to make the *most* money from this.
I just hope you have a plan B, for when you hardly sell any armory slots next patch, that will let you introduce some level of use in content without leaving the early adopters feeling short changed.
11
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sbr32✭✭✭✭I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on a change.
#1 The PTS is a bit of a misnomer, they don't take feedback and rarely do anything about discovered bugs so I am not sure in what way this is a "test server".
#2 The developers that created this as a monetized system, and continue to have Jewelrycrafting (among other things) behind a paywall don't want ESO to appear to be a "pay to win" game. lolEdited by sbr32 on October 12, 2021 2:37AM13 -
EnigmaniteZSoul Shriventhey specifically stated they do not want it usable in content, particularly 'timed trial' content, because it would be pay to win after a fashion. implementing a quickslot option does not negate that. Unless it's just for the 2 basic slots specifically, and no others.
What they should have implemented was two separate systems. One system handles the skill selection, morphs, CP spending, etc. One system handles saving and loading skill bars, gear, and CP slots.
PC players have addons for the latter, maybe even for the former. The former should of course be locked to only assistants/inn rooms/whatever. The latter should just be an 'everywhere' thing.
Both console and PC would benefit from a properly coded form of both, rather than...one giant all in one system that screams 'pay for QoL' but clashes in ideals with 'we are not pay to win' because of how it is designed. Best part of the current implementation is that addons will likely still do it better for PC players...8 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
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P2W line was crossed long ago and Z team doesn't acknowledges that. It was a lol moment on the live stream(...) #2 The developers that created this as a monetized system, and continue to have Jewelrycrafting (among other things) behind a paywall don't want ESO to appear to be a "pay to win" game. lol
"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother [PS5][EU] 2165 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest [PS5][NA] 1910 CP
- SweetTrolls [PC][EU] 1950 CP
- Bacon Rats [PC][NA] 1850 CP
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LeonAkando✭✭✭✭This is one of the most overplayed and trite arguments recently, imo.
ZOS isn't preventing you from swapping builds mid content because of "money". It's because they don't want you swapping builds in competitive content, it's that simple. They already expressed the dislike of "pre-buffing" and to a lessor extent gear-swapping.
They don't want you to go into a trash pack with trash gear, 1 Tank 11 DPS and instant nuke everything down, then swap to 2 Tank, 2 Heal, 8 DPS and boss gear and do the bosses. They want it to be a cohesive experience where you bring a build to fight, and that's your build for the actual combat.
Trials are designed as one, long, extended combat encounter as is the intent with speed runs. By letting you swap entire builds, basically mid-combat, it heavily disrupts the flow and balance of encounters.
I am personally surprised ZOS did not take it one step further, and disable gearing swapping in trials, as that is something I would do. That way there may be some value in bringing some DPS with "AoE focused builds" and some DPS with "Boss focused builds" into a single team.18 -
Jayne_Doe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My understanding from the Q&A after their long advertisement a couple weeks ago was that the armory assistant could be used in content as long as it wasn't timed (leaderboards).
As far as avoiding any P2W accusations, they should have made this QoL improvement entirely free. But, of course, they have to find places where they can monetize, so they came up with a free station to put in your homes but if you actually want to use it in non-leaderboard content, you need to buy the assistant, as well as any additional slots (per character) beyond the two free slots.
What we get, then, is a robust system for creating builds, but a clunky and not entirely useful implementation of it that requires spending money to get the most out of it. So, then they had to lock it out of leaderboard content. But, PC players can still use free add-ons to get some of the functionality of the armory, and can use these add-ons for leaderboard content.1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »This is one of the most overplayed and trite arguments recently, imo.
ZOS isn't preventing you from swapping builds mid content because of "money". It's because they don't want you swapping builds in competitive content, it's that simple. They already expressed the dislike of "pre-buffing" and to a lessor extent gear-swapping.
They don't want you to go into a trash pack with trash gear, 1 Tank 11 DPS and instant nuke everything down, then swap to 2 Tank, 2 Heal, 8 DPS and boss gear and do the bosses. They want it to be a cohesive experience where you bring a build to fight, and that's your build for the actual combat.
Trials are designed as one, long, extended combat encounter as is the intent with speed runs. By letting you swap entire builds, basically mid-combat, it heavily disrupts the flow and balance of encounters.
I am personally surprised ZOS did not take it one step further, and disable gearing swapping in trials, as that is something I would do. That way there may be some value in bringing some DPS with "AoE focused builds" and some DPS with "Boss focused builds" into a single team.
If they don't want that, then they should design their content in such a way that it isn't needed to do so for the best scores. That means they need to reevaluate their damage standards. As long as single target dps is always better at taking down bosses and AOE dps is always better at taking down trash groups, swapping will always be more advantageous. They could also add an unskippable animation for changing the gear you are wearing so that changing back and forth punishes your time/score.
The reason they are preventing swapping builds mid-content is definitely because of money. They wanted to monetize this system when they didn't have to. But since gear swapping mid-content can give a tangible advantage, even if they don't want it to, allowing it mid-content while also trying to make money off of the system would result in valid P2W concerns (although you could argue getting a top score doesn't really earn you anything. You aren't getting any fame in this game for having the best score anywhere and the rewards are laughable). Still, to avoid the entire P2W outcry they decided to sacrifice quality of life in favor of them making money.
It's a badly designed system and that is purely because they wanted to monetize it - everything else is secondary.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I just hope you have a plan B, for when you hardly sell any armory slots next patch, that will let you introduce some level of use in content without leaving the early adopters feeling short changed.
I disagree, I'm already anticipating purchasing 4-5 slots for my main as well as the portable assistant, if the price is reasonable and I feel like being able to play roles outside of my typical setup like Werewolf, Vampire or tank on my main character, I may purchase the max amount.
I can hardly say I've ever even considered purchasing outflt slots, yet they still exist.
Will I purchase any slots for my alts? Nope, but someone will. I forsee my alts getting a whole lot less use when this releases as I'd personally rather play every role on my main. I could care less about switching entire stats, stars and morphs in competitive content which is the main use of this system. It would be cool at first... but I don't personally want to feel penalized for not using it when I can.
I don't want to hault the flow of combat, wait for myself and my group to actually be out of combat, pull up the assistant then switch to a different build just so I can clear a room of ad's or kill a boss 10 seconds quicker when it took even longer doing nothing, to switch in the first place.
The situations where this would be needed for role swapping like if you lost one of your healers in a trial, but one player offers to heal, would be a hault to the flow of combat anyway. What difference does it make if you teleport to your house to switch roles vs removing yourself from the group, logging out of your character for an alt and porting back in. The difference is probably close to the same, if not shorter with Armory. This scenario is completely optional while allowing it to be used in competitive content would become mandatory for swapping [snip] out just to kill things quicker and regardless of if something is pay to win or not, that is just annoying to expect of players.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 30, 2021 6:34PMPC Beta - 1900+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit0 -
Tigertron✭✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »This is one of the most overplayed and trite arguments recently, imo.
ZOS isn't preventing you from swapping builds mid content because of "money". It's because they don't want you swapping builds in competitive content, it's that simple. They already expressed the dislike of "pre-buffing" and to a lessor extent gear-swapping.
They don't want you to go into a trash pack with trash gear, 1 Tank 11 DPS and instant nuke everything down, then swap to 2 Tank, 2 Heal, 8 DPS and boss gear and do the bosses. They want it to be a cohesive experience where you bring a build to fight, and that's your build for the actual combat.
Trials are designed as one, long, extended combat encounter as is the intent with speed runs. By letting you swap entire builds, basically mid-combat, it heavily disrupts the flow and balance of encounters.
I am personally surprised ZOS did not take it one step further, and disable gearing swapping in trials, as that is something I would do. That way there may be some value in bringing some DPS with "AoE focused builds" and some DPS with "Boss focused builds" into a single team.
If they don't want that, then they should design their content in such a way that it isn't needed to do so for the best scores. That means they need to reevaluate their damage standards. As long as single target dps is always better at taking down bosses and AOE dps is always better at taking down trash groups, swapping will always be more advantageous. They could also add an unskippable animation for changing the gear you are wearing so that changing back and forth punishes your time/score.
The reason they are preventing swapping builds mid-content is definitely because of money. They wanted to monetize this system when they didn't have to. But since gear swapping mid-content can give a tangible advantage, even if they don't want it to, allowing it mid-content while also trying to make money off of the system would result in valid P2W concerns (although you could argue getting a top score doesn't really earn you anything. You aren't getting any fame in this game for having the best score anywhere and the rewards are laughable). Still, to avoid the entire P2W outcry they decided to sacrifice quality of life in favor of them making money.
It's a badly designed system and that is purely because they wanted to monetize it - everything else is secondary.
You can swap gear right now. Nothing stops you from doing that. You can even leave and go to shrine and respec fi you think that would matter. The armory works in all dungeons and trials except timed instances. You inventory still works just like it always did. Same as your CP UI.
You only lose:
Remorphing skills
changing curse
changing attributes
After changing that you are probably not even the role you joined as.0 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
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Thanks for the heads up! I get OP's concern then, because if you need to go outside, you can manually change everything at a respec shrine anyway, and even though it will take more time, you don't need to buy an assistant or a station. It will still be useful for console, but for pc the only way I can see it be worthwhile is for people who don't have alts and want to swap builds often on their main character, and for vamp/ww easy respecs.1 -
Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭
this is actually quite confusing now...
"Fixed an issue where you were able to summon or interact with the Armory Assistant during a timed leaderboard activity."
Vet Dungeons are timed to a certain extent, but they are for sure no leaderboard activity. neither are normal trials, but all vet trials.
so whats right now? Some one who actually tested it, rather than assuming from patchnotes?LeonAkando wrote: »T..... The armory works in all dungeons and trials except timed instances. You inventory still works just like it always did. S....Edited by Xuhora on October 15, 2021 7:11AM1 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd rather not play a game where I'm pressured to optimize by switching builds between every encounter.
Some people might prefer that, and will continue to use addons for it, but I'd rather focus on the content in front of me. Switching a skill here and there is the right amount of adaptability for me.PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am not sure if the intended purpose of the armory is to “change builds before every pull”. I think it’s more along the lines of having a dungeon dps build, a healer build, a PvP build, maybe a tank build, etc.
Possibly all on one character.4 -
ZeroDPS✭✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »This is one of the most overplayed and trite arguments recently, imo.
ZOS isn't preventing you from swapping builds mid content because of "money". It's because they don't want you swapping builds in competitive content, it's that simple. They already expressed the dislike of "pre-buffing" and to a lessor extent gear-swapping.
They don't want you to go into a trash pack with trash gear, 1 Tank 11 DPS and instant nuke everything down, then swap to 2 Tank, 2 Heal, 8 DPS and boss gear and do the bosses. They want it to be a cohesive experience where you bring a build to fight, and that's your build for the actual combat.
Trials are designed as one, long, extended combat encounter as is the intent with speed runs. By letting you swap entire builds, basically mid-combat, it heavily disrupts the flow and balance of encounters.
I am personally surprised ZOS did not take it one step further, and disable gearing swapping in trials, as that is something I would do. That way there may be some value in bringing some DPS with "AoE focused builds" and some DPS with "Boss focused builds" into a single team.
Ohhh dont know where to begin….
First of all I dont agree with you because:
You cant restrict players swap gear mid trial using armory, because if players needs to do particular trial with changing gear 1dd/10 tank and 10dd/1 tank they will do it manually ZOS needs to accept and understand this
And if in any ways when we need we will do, so why make our lives worse? Give us armory with mid content changing….2 -
NerfSeige✭✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »This is one of the most overplayed and trite arguments recently, imo.
ZOS isn't preventing you from swapping builds mid content because of "money". It's because they don't want you swapping builds in competitive content, it's that simple. They already expressed the dislike of "pre-buffing" and to a lessor extent gear-swapping.
They don't want you to go into a trash pack with trash gear, 1 Tank 11 DPS and instant nuke everything down, then swap to 2 Tank, 2 Heal, 8 DPS and boss gear and do the bosses. They want it to be a cohesive experience where you bring a build to fight, and that's your build for the actual combat.
Trials are designed as one, long, extended combat encounter as is the intent with speed runs. By letting you swap entire builds, basically mid-combat, it heavily disrupts the flow and balance of encounters.
I am personally surprised ZOS did not take it one step further, and disable gearing swapping in trials, as that is something I would do. That way there may be some value in bringing some DPS with "AoE focused builds" and some DPS with "Boss focused builds" into a single team.
Ohhh dont know where to begin….
First of all I dont agree with you because:
You cant restrict players swap gear mid trial using armory, because if players needs to do particular trial with changing gear 1dd/10 tank and 10dd/1 tank they will do it manually ZOS needs to accept and understand this
And if in any ways when we need we will do, so why make our lives worse? Give us armory with mid content changing….
Aaand if they don't want that they would have to disable dressing room on PC. The armory have the potential of bringing pc and console scores near each other but I guess they don't want that eh?Avid reader of wes’-pts-diary[RIP]
NerfAS and Shill ruins everything
Skinny-meta-fake, graded D, and can’t explain the law of diminishing marginal returns.
I won’t post that Wes, I’ll get [snipped] for the last time
Revert this patch - Audens, 20220 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.Aaand if they don't want that they would have to disable dressing room on PC. The armory have the potential of bringing pc and console scores near each other but I guess they don't want that eh?
Cash shop gutted armory before it had a chance. Why buy a mundus stone to swap them when you can hop swap with a armory merchant?0 -
codierussell✭✭✭✭.Aaand if they don't want that they would have to disable dressing room on PC. The armory have the potential of bringing pc and console scores near each other but I guess they don't want that eh?
Cash shop gutted armory before it had a chance. Why buy a mundus stone to swap them when you can hop swap with a armory merchant?
It is funny because now all the people that bought mundus stones basically wasted money.0 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭codierussell wrote: ».Aaand if they don't want that they would have to disable dressing room on PC. The armory have the potential of bringing pc and console scores near each other but I guess they don't want that eh?
Cash shop gutted armory before it had a chance. Why buy a mundus stone to swap them when you can hop swap with a armory merchant?
It is funny because now all the people that bought mundus stones basically wasted money.
How so? Have they managed to fix their “technical difficulties” so they can include mundus choice in the armory?0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Aaand if they don't want that they would have to disable dressing room on PC. The armory have the potential of bringing pc and console scores near each other but I guess they don't want that eh?
Cash shop gutted armory before it had a chance. Why buy a mundus stone to swap them when you can hop swap with a armory merchant?
I expect that the mundus stone will be added to the armory. The reason that Rich gave is much more plausible than "crown store revenue".codierussell wrote: »It is funny because now all the people that bought mundus stones basically wasted money.
That is hardly true.
Not everyone buys them so they can hotswap their mundus every day. 0 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Outside a few housing enthusiasts, I expect most players have guilds with all or at least most Mundus Stones in them.
Majority of players likely don't even know how one gets a Mundus Stone furnishing.PC NA0 -
Eormenric✭✭✭To start with, I expected this change would come, so I'm disappointed rather than surprised. For 3 weeks you've shown what an excellent addition the armoury could have been, by making it usable in content. This isn't simply a console player whinge, it actually brought new utility to pc players by introducing a way of changing between vamp and non vamp and between different skill morphs. It was genuinely great. I would have bought a *lot* of armoury slots, as would a lot of my guildmates. I have 11 characters and I'd probably have bought at least 1 additional slot for each of them, plus the assistant (for convenience even if the assistant wasn't required to change between slots in content). So at a guess 15k crowns. And get this, I'd have bought all those extras, just for convenience, even if the basic 2 slots were freely usable by everyone in content by some kind of quick slot mechanism (thus avoiding accusations of p2w).
With it unusable in content? I might buy one, for my main, so I can set up as DD / tank / PvP. 1k crowns, but I wouldn't bother with an assistant because it's never going to be much hassle to visit a house to switch between only 2 setups.
I know you're doing what you're doing to make money, but I think you haven't understood how to make the *most* money from this.
I just hope you have a plan B, for when you hardly sell any armory slots next patch, that will let you introduce some level of use in content without leaving the early adopters feeling short changed.
Next time, be more specific on your topic. I had no idea what exactly you were non-whinging about until reading further posts. Armoury 'is' available in content; it just isn't available in leaderboard content (i.e. arenas and timed trials) for what we all can understand as obvious reasons. And I do think it's a little immature to be like, "Hey... You know I 'would' have spent more money on this thing if you changed it. Buuut, since you aren't changing it, I guess all my money will have to go elsewhere. Geeee." I do think it is also obvious though that your perspective shows you don't care about P2W--as you want to pay so you can win.codierussell wrote: ».Aaand if they don't want that they would have to disable dressing room on PC. The armory have the potential of bringing pc and console scores near each other but I guess they don't want that eh?
Cash shop gutted armory before it had a chance. Why buy a mundus stone to swap them when you can hop swap with a armory merchant?
It is funny because now all the people that bought mundus stones basically wasted money.
So, I take it Mundus Stone is now included in Armory? If so, I'd still rather click on a Mundus Stone next to a training dummy than go through the armory process for just one change. Plus, who would buy more armory slots to just swap your mundus stone on the fly? Mundus Stone still has a use. Not a waste of money at all. Emotions run high for Update 32...0
