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No proc campaign is WRONG
CaliphStudio
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Pre-post message: I know this is a bold message, can trigger people or sound offensive on occasions, but i have no ill intentions by posting this, nor do I think that my opinion counts more than any other's simply talking out my frustration and opinion.
How did we even get here: About 2 years ago, proc sets weren't a problem, there were very few that could be used, and those, didn't get close to meta (those that did, got nerfed soon enough, like Sload's Embrace). I think it was Greymoor that buffed almost every proc set that could be used in pvp, and did so massively, in combination with the Band of Brutality, it became the sole meta, we didn't need to care about damage anymore, just make a warden, build up 45k health with your health based heals, and let your sets destroy the enemy, great job!
Why tho? Why did they get buffed in the first place ? that was the concept of proc sets, either theyre hard to use (like relequen) or they are weak, requiring low skill, but having low performance too, if it was to give them a chance at PvE, then change them to PvE based sets, add something that makes them hard to use in PvP, a set that simply deals damage whenever you hit somebody, should NOT be strong anyways.
No proc, and no choice: Thats right, if you wanted to play non cp for any reason, but want to have something more than boring raw stat sets, or dont want to have 2 different setups for bgs and Cyro, you can only stop playing, or change to cp campaign.
What does "proc" mean again? We had problem with sets dealing damage, with no or little effort, a minority of sets, but now we cant use 90% of the sets, anybody here hate Spell Strategist or ever considered a no proc ? why dont we just remove those few sets that everybody hated? and not make the game lame with only raw stat sets that make us all look alike, how about we balance pvp out by allowing nobody to wear gear at all as our next step...
Why only no cp Cyrodill? If proc sets are broken, why dont we ban them from pvp in general ? if they are broken only in non cp, why do they exist in bgs ? its a wonderful experience to be pulled and immediately killed in a bg just because somebody thought thats a good set design to exist in the game. this solves nothing, cp Cyro and bgs are being infested by insanely annoying proc sets, while no cp Cyro is suffering from lack of all the sets in the game.
Why dont we nerf them back instead? This one doesnt even need explanation, what ZoS is doing is like, buffing relequen to an unstoppable level, then disable it in Sunspire, yet still allow it in other trials, ppl still have to use it, but you have to have replacements for it, all while wondering why did it exactly have to be buffed in the first place, and why is it being disabled instead of balanced out.
No ingame cue: Not only if you wanna know what sets are active, you need to find and read like 2 different patch notes, outside of the game, but the game doesnt even tell you that sets will be disabled, what are new players supposed to do? i dont know why but this part to me seems like were playing an abandoned game from 1980s. why does vital information of a game's combat be posted in a patch note? and why is it called "listening to player feedback" ?
Whats my problem with it? meta is meta, not much changes, but eso used to be the game of freedom, the one you could be a vampire templar, with a shield, and heal your friends, made no sense, but that was the fun, we could make builds as we pleased, and if we were good enough, we could make them work on a high level, but recent "hard" rules like this, or the vamp skill not being usable anymore, or the new crit cap, just ruin that fun, its only a matter of time before we become WoW with fully seperrated pvp and pve gear i suppose. i mean no offense but this whole situation seems like incompetence, a cheap way of getting rid of player feedback, a quick balance, we endure about a year of 400+ ping Cyrodill, for this to be the result of it, it feels lazy and unprofessional, and kills my trust in the game, and im afraid of seeing more things getting removed instead of balanced from now on.
For anybody who wants to give a negative response to this, i have one question, what exactly is the problem with nerfing pvp based (real) proc sets to an acceptable level, giving us, both a healthier game, and a healthier mental state while playing in areas where those sets are still allowed?
How did we even get here: About 2 years ago, proc sets weren't a problem, there were very few that could be used, and those, didn't get close to meta (those that did, got nerfed soon enough, like Sload's Embrace). I think it was Greymoor that buffed almost every proc set that could be used in pvp, and did so massively, in combination with the Band of Brutality, it became the sole meta, we didn't need to care about damage anymore, just make a warden, build up 45k health with your health based heals, and let your sets destroy the enemy, great job!
Why tho? Why did they get buffed in the first place ? that was the concept of proc sets, either theyre hard to use (like relequen) or they are weak, requiring low skill, but having low performance too, if it was to give them a chance at PvE, then change them to PvE based sets, add something that makes them hard to use in PvP, a set that simply deals damage whenever you hit somebody, should NOT be strong anyways.
No proc, and no choice: Thats right, if you wanted to play non cp for any reason, but want to have something more than boring raw stat sets, or dont want to have 2 different setups for bgs and Cyro, you can only stop playing, or change to cp campaign.
What does "proc" mean again? We had problem with sets dealing damage, with no or little effort, a minority of sets, but now we cant use 90% of the sets, anybody here hate Spell Strategist or ever considered a no proc ? why dont we just remove those few sets that everybody hated? and not make the game lame with only raw stat sets that make us all look alike, how about we balance pvp out by allowing nobody to wear gear at all as our next step...
Why only no cp Cyrodill? If proc sets are broken, why dont we ban them from pvp in general ? if they are broken only in non cp, why do they exist in bgs ? its a wonderful experience to be pulled and immediately killed in a bg just because somebody thought thats a good set design to exist in the game. this solves nothing, cp Cyro and bgs are being infested by insanely annoying proc sets, while no cp Cyro is suffering from lack of all the sets in the game.
Why dont we nerf them back instead? This one doesnt even need explanation, what ZoS is doing is like, buffing relequen to an unstoppable level, then disable it in Sunspire, yet still allow it in other trials, ppl still have to use it, but you have to have replacements for it, all while wondering why did it exactly have to be buffed in the first place, and why is it being disabled instead of balanced out.
No ingame cue: Not only if you wanna know what sets are active, you need to find and read like 2 different patch notes, outside of the game, but the game doesnt even tell you that sets will be disabled, what are new players supposed to do? i dont know why but this part to me seems like were playing an abandoned game from 1980s. why does vital information of a game's combat be posted in a patch note? and why is it called "listening to player feedback" ?
Whats my problem with it? meta is meta, not much changes, but eso used to be the game of freedom, the one you could be a vampire templar, with a shield, and heal your friends, made no sense, but that was the fun, we could make builds as we pleased, and if we were good enough, we could make them work on a high level, but recent "hard" rules like this, or the vamp skill not being usable anymore, or the new crit cap, just ruin that fun, its only a matter of time before we become WoW with fully seperrated pvp and pve gear i suppose. i mean no offense but this whole situation seems like incompetence, a cheap way of getting rid of player feedback, a quick balance, we endure about a year of 400+ ping Cyrodill, for this to be the result of it, it feels lazy and unprofessional, and kills my trust in the game, and im afraid of seeing more things getting removed instead of balanced from now on.
For anybody who wants to give a negative response to this, i have one question, what exactly is the problem with nerfing pvp based (real) proc sets to an acceptable level, giving us, both a healthier game, and a healthier mental state while playing in areas where those sets are still allowed?
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Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I preferred things before the crazy sets that started to be introduced with Greymoor too! Proc sets should work with your abilities, maybe be fun flavor things, never do the job for you as you say, build a tanky character and let the armor do the work. But if ZOS does not want to remove such gimmicks but even create more, I am glad that there is a no proc campaign. As to whether that campaign is CP or no-CP, that I am not particular about (at 1100 CP I’d guess I’m low to mid-range).0 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭The game balance of sets is messed up.
ESO have 1% strong sets and 99% garbage sets.0 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should have made it a separate campaign for those who wanted that, instead of taking away existing and the only no CP campaign.
There are 3 campaigns and coincidentally 3 factions. I was playing one faction per campaign. Now I don't have a place to play 5 of my characters, as their inventories are already filled to the brim with sets and I simply don't have a space or will to farm "allowed" sets, nor would I like to use generic stat sets on characters that run fun themed builds. To add insult to injury, some of the sets officially listed in patch notes are not actually working. I did think of one "whitelisted" build for one of the themed characters, that would fit no proc rules and be in line with character theme, and after grinding fitting dungeon set from whitelist and paying good bunch of gold for another overland set, I discover that the very core set of this build is not working despite being whitelisted in patch notes.0 -
Larcomar✭✭✭✭✭To be fair, it sort of made sense to turn Ravenwatch into no proc. I mean, if you want to get more people into pvp, you kind of need a newbie server where there not going to get obliterated by high cp people rocking the latest op combo of sets. Would a separate server have been better? Well, maybe. Thing is the baby pvp server icereach is dead. There just arn't that many players to go round anymore.
That said, yeah, it was annoying to lose Raven as an option and cutting the set variety down like this hasn't done pvp many favors. Sure, it does create a bit more of a gentle curve for pvp, but it's kind of .... dull. I was in yesterday getting some yellow / blue alts their tier 1. I think my eyes were glazing over by the end. I never thought I'd say this but I almost missed seeing dark convergence bubbles everywhere. Couldn't wait to get back to greyhost.1 -
CaliphStudio✭✭✭They should have made it a separate campaign for those who wanted that, instead of taking away existing and the only no CP campaign.
There are 3 campaigns and coincidentally 3 factions. I was playing one faction per campaign. Now I don't have a place to play 5 of my characters, as their inventories are already filled to the brim with sets and I simply don't have a space or will to farm "allowed" sets, nor would I like to use generic stat sets on characters that run fun themed builds. To add insult to injury, some of the sets officially listed in patch notes are not actually working. I did think of one "whitelisted" build for one of the themed characters, that would fit no proc rules and be in line with character theme, and after grinding fitting dungeon set from whitelist and paying good bunch of gold for another overland set, I discover that the very core set of this build is not working despite being whitelisted in patch notes.
Thing is, this "rule" is probably gonna change, so making a no proc char and build, would mean getting the new "allowed" sets every patch, possibly to see them get removed again, at least the way the devs feel free to change how our sets function.0 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm really enjoying the no-proc no-cp EU PVP, and judging by the queues and the PVP guilds that have moved over an awful lot of other people feel the same way.
No-proc for BG would be nice but at the moment they've broken BG by making it deathbore only which combined with it being a game for 12 people in dark convergence kind of makes it a waste of space.
Too many toons not enough time2 -
TheS1X✭✭✭No proc campaign is dopest thing there is, I totally enjoy it.
Most people are too op with procs and proc campaign lags more than without procs.
People need to have choice, if u like procs, play on proc server, easy.4 -
CaliphStudio✭✭✭No proc campaign is more enjoyable because the real proc sets, or other OP sets(Dont forget, all of which could be nerfed and balanced out instead of removed). dont exist in it, not the other majority of the sets inactive there, i dont know which sets are active, otherwise i wouldve given examples, but im sure at least 80% of the disabled sets, dont make pvp worse.
In regards to choice, i agree, you are given a choice, between playing a campaign so dull that your "build" and sets mean nothing, swapping weapon crit for max stam doesnt change your playstyle in any way, and one in which you are gonna get destroyed by overpowered proc sets, or maybe non proc OP sets, possibly never to be fixed because, hey if you dont like it, you can choose to play our other campaign. Sounds more like a choice between bad and worse.
To say removing sets instead of balancing them is a good move, seems too unreasonable.
And yeah the only i could see this, is no proc being a newbie server, even tho i would have really preferred if we had a separate server for that, and actually trying to balance out our "real" pvp instead of making it so simple nothing could possibly go wrong(Altho im still sure a good magsorc can just as easily one shot you in no proc
).
That way ppl with lower cp who wanted to enjoy pvp while having a more fun build (Or not wanting to search thro patch notes to know what theyre allowed to wear) could also join Cyro, without having to compete with 2k CP players while theyre on 500.0 -
mzprx✭✭✭✭✭...People need to have choice, if u like procs, play on proc server, easy.
we all (well, a lot of us) went to no-CP campaigns because the CP ones are a lagfest regardless of your PC setup. it doesn't matter if you have a "rocket" that will cook your dinner, hoover the whole house and drive you to work as well as play anything on max settings, the CP campaign is going to make you wish you've never heard of Cyrodiil. so the majority of players is either going to be forced to not use a large portion of sets in the game or suffer the consequences in Gray Host. this is not a game design, IMO. this is simply a matter of bad servers that can't handle the pressure, so to speak..
also, their choice of sets that will or will not work in no-CP is... questionable at best. on one side you have sets like Duneripper's Scales or Mark of the Pariah, which are by definition proc sets but are still going to work in no-CP (and thus no-proc) campaign(s), but Heartland Conqueror that has no proc condition what-so-ever is not (source). that's some weird reasoning, if you ask me..Edited by mzprx on October 19, 2021 2:31PM0 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭...People need to have choice, if u like procs, play on proc server, easy.
we all (well, a lot of us) went to no-CP campaigns because the CP ones are a lagfest regardless of your PC setup. it doesn't matter if you have a "rocket" that will cook your dinner, hoover the whole house and drive you to work as well as play anything on max settings, the CP campaign is going to make you wish you've never heard of Cyrodiil. so the majority of players is either going to be forced to not use a large portion of sets in the game or suffer the consequences in Gray Host. this is not a game design, IMO. this is simply a matter of bad servers that can't handle the pressure, so to speak..
also, their choice of sets that will or will not work in no-CP is... questionable at best. on one side you have sets like Duneripper's Scales or Mark of the Pariah, which are by definition proc sets but are still going to work in no-CP (and thus no-proc) campaign(s), but Heartland Conqueror that has no proc condition what-so-ever is not (source). that's some weird reasoning, if you ask me..
Heartland works in noproc, as well as some other not listed sets. On the other hand, some listed sets don't work at all... shapeshifter for example.Edited by EF321 on October 20, 2021 6:48AM0
