Please buff the overworld enemies.

Mayrael · August 2021

Im with you on this OP. Maybe just maybe, if threads like this show up every week it is actually a valid point?

Since anyway most people who are against such a change don't even bother to try to understand and also don't want changes that wouldn't be harmful to them in any way (optional vet zones, etc.) I'll just write:

I and thousands of players want more difficult overland content[snip]. If you want to relax and don't pay attention to what you do, play the Sims or some browser-based vegetable farms.

[edited for baiting]

aaisoaho · August 2021

Look, there are merits on both sides of this. Both have valid points and the whole debate about rewards seems ridiculous.

Let's focus on the concept of flow for a bit. A flow state is reached, when the given challenge matches your skills. If the challenge is too difficult, you start to experience anxiety and on the other hand, if the skill level outmatches the challenge, you feel bored.

This is the essence of this problem: how could we find a suitable challenge for every players in the overland? How could the overland be comformtable for both: those who just started (have little skill) and those who have played for a long time (have a lot of skill)?

If you manage to crack this, do share. Keep in mind the players constantly learn, so their skill level constantly rises.

Currently it seems to me, ZOS has decided to not try to crack this one open and instead guides players to content that matches their skill level. The choice is quite sensible: the place where you start is not difficult and thus a new player (new players have a lot of potential as an income source) can get into flow state easier and not be anxious about the difficulty.

On the flip side: older players get bored in the overland, because it does not provide enough challenge to them. For the more talented players, ZOS gives DLC dungeons, trials and arenas to play with.

But the thing is: overland currently is not designed for the seasoned player. It is valid for them to ask if they could get more enjoyable overland experience, and has a merit from business side: a seasoned player is a steady income source.

One argument that is not covered in a lot of replies is: if you were to separate overland into a normal mode and veteran mode, you'd end up with the issues that brought One Tamriel: your playerbase would be separated, and the vet version would feel deserted - just like vet level zones were quite empty compared to below-50 zones. So, separate vet zone and normal zone would not be the answer.

A debuff-style solution has its flaws too. It could be easily abused: bring a seasoned player without the debuff with you when farming while debuffed. Or avoid mobs while farming to gain more - I know I did avoid everything when Craglorn had deadly shadowcasters and the ores were all v14 mats just to farm Nirncrux.

zvavi · August 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Press a momento in my inventory, which debuffs me and makes me take more damage and deal less damage, while giving small boost to rewards. As a direct consequence I take longer to kill stuff, so my total reward over 1 hour of play stays the same.

Oh what memento is that? I'd like to play around with that too!

Me too! Hence the suggestion I have posted here and tried to defend while being accused of "just wanting better rewards" for a whole page of comments. As the dungeon example proved

zvavi wrote: »

Take dungeons for example, you get better (purple) and more (higher quality chests) rewards for vet, and yet everyone still farm normal for gear because it is more time efficient. Since it is proven (by dungeons) that it will not be unfair towards those that run normal, why shouldn't vet rewards be better (quantity-wise).

it does not exclusively mean unfair advantage towards those who don't use the theoretically implemented momento.

Here's the problem with this solution - it's no different from saying to just wear white gear and use only a couple skills.

Many of us have tried this solution - it doesn't change the fact that the enemies themselves are incapable, limited, slow, and boring.

Nerfing ourselves doesn't solve the problem because the enemies don't have any interesting mechanics Nor are they fast enough in the first place.

The combat is designed for complete beginners, who are learning it all for the first time. That is very evident with Story Bosses.

The combat will only get more exciting and fun if in a separate instance where it is no longer for complete beginners. Where enemies and bosses use more abilities, move faster, and do more damage.

I agree that my solution is not perfect and may not appeal to all, but it is much much less work (no need to create every boss twice/trice) and it enables playing together with friends of different levels. Your preferred solution (which in all honesty very appealing) is but a pipe dream, for three reasons, one, zos stated in the past that they do not want to split player base and want everyone to play everywhere (one Tamriel), two, lots of work, three, poor server performance won't handle more complicated faster enemies.

I agree that it is unrealistic - which is why my primary hope is a reform of quest bosses to have difficulty options with real challenge. That's far more realistic and attainable.

But the "Self Nerf" for overland is not just imperfect, it is completely ineffective.

"Self Nerf" solutions are about the same as doing nothing at all. That's my point.

I disagree on that though. Taking as an example IC horrors and wardens, they are still slow, predictable, and generally hard to die to, but they are ten folds more fun than regular quest bosses.
PS creating hard mode for quest bosses is still loads of work. Unless you mean only main quest bosses, and then I somehow see how it could work, but it will still be meh since your whole adventure be casual up to the last boss, kinda makes you feel like grind to get to the enjoyable part, and really does not change the feeling of adventure up till that point, from my PoV your solution is the ineffective one.

Saieden · August 2021

I'm all for a self nerf, kind of like the Demon Bell and Kuro's Charm mechanics in Sekiro. Toggle a debuff that halves damage done and doubles damage taken to and from overland monsters (or whatever percentage scaling is deemed appropriate, could have several options or stackable 10% ones). You can make them separate so that tank builds can actually die and still kill stuff while DD's can avoid being one-shotted by a blocked Alit heavy attack. It can be a Collections tool, and for narrative, unlock it with Undaunted level 10 achievement, or create a new one for completing something like 5-10 hard mode or no sigil achievements. ZoS doesn't need to "find a suitable challenge for every players in the overland", just allow them to scale their characters (negatively, of course) to their preference. It also fits perfectly into the Play Your Way philosophy of ESO.

Threads like this would be dead within a week if something like this was implemented, guaranteed.

Other solutions like adding HMs do delves/group dungeons and just generally messing the existing overland content is just completely unrealistic and will never happen. It is, for all intents and purposes, financially impossible.

ixthUA · August 2021

Difficulty slider / debuff will not work, because people can team up and get achievement / increased drop / experience.

zvavi · August 2021

ixthUA wrote: »

Difficulty slider / debuff will not work, because people can team up and get achievement / increased drop / experience.

Well... I mean... Aren't MMOs supposed to give initiative to grouping?

Biro123 · August 2021

ixthUA wrote: »

Difficulty slider / debuff will not work, because people can team up and get achievement / increased drop / experience.

Explain please?

I don't think the increased drop suggestion has gone hand in hand with the slider/debuff option. Its only been suggested alongside seperate vet zones, or direct boss buffs. Nor has any achievement been asked for (wouldn't make sense anyway as you could turn the slider up and down when you want).

So teaming up, with one person having it on, one off will just be a slower rate of loot gain than having no slider at all.

In fact it could make teaming up actually feel worthwhile in overland, as you and your friend could both crank it up and play together. It would even make the different roles 'healer/tank/dps' etc workable in overland, should you choose...

Just think of the options! Because at the minute, the difficulty level actually discourages overland grouping while questing and doing delves. It could be a real multiplayer game again!

zvavi · August 2021

Biro123 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

Difficulty slider / debuff will not work, because people can team up and get achievement / increased drop / experience.

Explain please?

I don't think the increased drop suggestion has gone hand in hand with the slider/debuff option.

It did. Uh, lemme dig out the full suggestion I gave.

zvavi wrote: »

Thing is, it is different. Example, create momentous, Call them elixir of loot (minor elixir of loot, common elixir of loot, major elixir of loot), it will higher the drop rates of things with the debuff, scaling it to the average debuff available (rounded down, so it won't be abused, works only on enemy drops, not quest rewards).

Here you go. Solution. Doesn't hurt you, since you can play without it, and lets many others enjoy the story, including the whole power fantasy thing, and it wouldn't even be that hard to implement (calculations on loot drops already exist between players, that's how gold drops calculate.

And no, the extra loot is not "you just want extra rewards" it is there to compensate for the time lost fighting stronger enemies, when I could have just killed twice trice 4 times more enemies on the base mode and get same loot drops.

Kiralyn2000 · August 2021

zvavi wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

Difficulty slider / debuff will not work, because people can team up and get achievement / increased drop / experience.

Well... I mean... Aren't MMOs supposed to give initiative to grouping?

Two ways to answer that:

1) Not really anymore. There's enough MMOs & publishers that they need 10's of millions of players to fill all the capacity - and there's just not 10's of millions of "old-school" MMOs-demand-grouping players out there. So modern MMO have a lot more "solo" content.

edit: also, "Massively Multiplayer Online" doesn't necessarily mean "grouping". Even when 'soloing', players are still in an online world with many other players, interacting with them via passing meetings in the overworld, via competing for spawns, via the chat box, via the economy/traders/auctions, etc. It's still "MMO".

OR

2) "Aren't MMOs supposed to give initiative to grouping?"
They DO! The best loot (gear, cosmetics, titles, etc), and the conclusions of The Big Dramatic Story, are locked in High-End, Endgame, Group Content!
You want the strongest gear? You need to group up and defeat the Big Challenges. That's the "incentive to group".

JoDiMageio · August 2021

Mayrael wrote: »

Im with you on this OP. Maybe just maybe, if threads like this show up every week it is actually a valid point?

Since anyway most people who are against such a change don't even bother to try to understand and also don't want changes that wouldn't be harmful to them in any way (optional vet zones, etc.) I'll just write:

I and thousands of players want more difficult overland content[snip]. If you want to relax and don't pay attention to what you do, play the Sims or some browser-based vegetable farms.

[edited for baiting]

You could write this in the complete opposite, though...

I and thousands of players would prefer overland content to remain the same. If you want a challenge and to pay attention to what you do, play some Korean grindy MMO. (or whatever people who want hardcore gameplay play, it's not my cup of tea).

Telling players to find a new game is simply disrespecting an entire part of the player population. Having content for everyone, which the game already does, from yes more simple overland to the trifecta achievements for those who want a challenge, allows everyone to stick around and have some content they enjoy.

Inclusion is always better.

Edit: You'll never make a group of players 100% happy, unless you choose to lose a subset of players. Isn't it better to have all players be 80% happy instead? Imo, ESO does this by offering diverse content. It might not be always exactly as you want it, but if there is enough content to satisfy each type of player, why would you take that away from other players by making it all about your needs and wants without considering others?

Biro123 · August 2021

zvavi wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

Difficulty slider / debuff will not work, because people can team up and get achievement / increased drop / experience.

Explain please?

I don't think the increased drop suggestion has gone hand in hand with the slider/debuff option.

It did. Uh, lemme dig out the full suggestion I gave.

zvavi wrote: »

Thing is, it is different. Example, create momentous, Call them elixir of loot (minor elixir of loot, common elixir of loot, major elixir of loot), it will higher the drop rates of things with the debuff, scaling it to the average debuff available (rounded down, so it won't be abused, works only on enemy drops, not quest rewards).

Here you go. Solution. Doesn't hurt you, since you can play without it, and lets many others enjoy the story, including the whole power fantasy thing, and it wouldn't even be that hard to implement (calculations on loot drops already exist between players, that's how gold drops calculate.

And no, the extra loot is not "you just want extra rewards" it is there to compensate for the time lost fighting stronger enemies, when I could have just killed twice trice 4 times more enemies on the base mode and get same loot drops.

Ah, ok. In that case he does have a point that killing mobs with someone who doesn't have the debuff on could result in an increase in loot per second.. LPS?

I personally don't care. I'm not in a trading guild so just vendor most overland drops anyway as they fill up my bags.. Ill be happy with a debuff slider and the associated loss in LPS... I mean if I'm farming for gear, I'd just turn it off.

fiender66 · August 2021

The OP request is one that appears every week in this section and in others ones (a similar one is currently in the PTS section).

OFC, nothing unreasonable in asking for the option to meet more challenging content, as long as this remains an OPTION, not a bar raising for everyone.

Now pls consider this: everything ZOS has added in time as an optional content beyond the base game, has been a somehow paid for one. Think of new classes, dragons, scrying (with ofc mythical items as prizes), many trials and high level dungeons (again with their much coveted drops), and so on and so on.

Moreover, we see that whenever a paid optional item does not meet great success, its nearest basic (or on older, widely got DLC's) competitor gets nerfed. Peruse through this section or the PTS one for examples, even very recent ones.

My question is: are you ready and happy to put your IRL money in that optional difficulty upgrading? For it is very, very unlikely that ZOS ever go into such a not-so-small overhaul for free, and nothing wrong with it: job has to be rewarded.

Besides, if the advantages of the "enhanced" overland would not appeal to many as ZOS think profitable, the solution could be to nerf what you get in the old, "normal" overland, with obvious results.

Beware of what you are asking for...

sParkSnare · August 2021

OP, I understand your frustration. Once upon a time certain instanced Mages Guild and Fighters Guild quests took effort and determination to complete - and people bragged about beating Doshia and Gutsripper. Once upon a time, people didn't set foot in Craglorn without a high level toon unless in a group. Soloing a world boss was virtually unheard of. However, for a variety of reasons, ESO decided to go a different direction with One Tamriel and eliminated zones developed with certain levels in mind. Like it or not (and, personally, I do not) this isn't going to change.

SilverBride · August 2021

The whole concept of how much loot a player gets for killing easy mobs as compared to more difficult mobs per every hour of playing needs to take a few more factors into consideration.

Not all players spend the same amount of time fighting enemies.
Not all players run around overland just killing random mobs.
Most players run past random mobs when heading toward quest objectives.
Some players stop and go afk for various reasons.
Players often stop fighting mobs to harvest resources or join a World Boss group for example.

The only way to determine if players fighting normal enemies and players fighting more difficult enemies receive equal amounts of loot is to have them start fighting at the same time, not stop for any reason, then at the end of an hour tally up their drops. But there is really no reason to do this because this is not how people play.

But to get back to the OP's request of more difficult overland mobs, I learned something from another thread that I wasn't aware of. If a player has CP 3600 they are able to apply these points to an alt of any level, so even a level 1 could have 3600 CP. No wonder overland appears too easy for these players.

The problem isn't with overland, it's with overpowered players. So the solution needs to address the player.

danno8 · August 2021

I do wish going up a level in ESO was more meaningful. Right now due to the One Tamriel update levelling serves no purpose at all from 1 to 50. You get resource points but spending them only gets you to where you were before you levelled up.

The only useful things are skill points and skyshards so you can flesh out your skill lines.

Frankly if they just eliminated the levelling of 1-50 and started everyone at 50 and just incorporated more skill points through quests it would be a more sensible progression, and I'm not sure anyone would even notice as there is no level gated content except Cyrodiil at 10 and I guess the dungeons which they could just gate with skill points instead.

All those levelling rewards like food and gold etc. could be put into quest completions as well.

danno8 · August 2021

aaisoaho wrote: »

Look, there are merits on both sides of this. Both have valid points and the whole debate about rewards seems ridiculous.

Let's focus on the concept of flow for a bit. A flow state is reached, when the given challenge matches your skills. If the challenge is too difficult, you start to experience anxiety and on the other hand, if the skill level outmatches the challenge, you feel bored.

This is the essence of this problem: how could we find a suitable challenge for every players in the overland? How could the overland be comformtable for both: those who just started (have little skill) and those who have played for a long time (have a lot of skill)?

If you manage to crack this, do share. Keep in mind the players constantly learn, so their skill level constantly rises.

I think the answer already exists, and has since I can remember. If you are getting destroyed by content that is too tough for you while levelling, you just do a bit more lower level content then come back a few levels later and smash the mobs that were giving you trouble.

In most other games this works pretty well, experienced players can challenge themselves by attempting higher level quests and mob fights, whereas less experienced or skilled players just hang back for a while and take on the lower level quests and mobs.

edit: I know why One Tamriel is a thing, and in theory it seems great. Give a new player the ability to immediately join the latest content. But in practice it has unfortunately created a situation where new content feels exactly like old content and your player character just feels perpetually stuck from 1-50, until you get some purple/gold gear and CP.

SilverBride · August 2021

danno8 wrote: »

Frankly if they just eliminated the levelling of 1-50 and started everyone at 50 and just incorporated more skill points through quests it would be a more sensible progression, and I'm not sure anyone would even notice...

I love playing new low level characters. They are fun because they are always finding better gear and upgrading themselves, and have something to look forward to when reaching level 50.

If we were all level 50 with CP from the start it would just aggravate the perception that overland is too easy, and take away the fun leveling experience many of us enjoy.

danno8 · August 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Frankly if they just eliminated the levelling of 1-50 and started everyone at 50 and just incorporated more skill points through quests it would be a more sensible progression, and I'm not sure anyone would even notice...

I love playing new low level characters. They are fun because they are always finding better gear and upgrading themselves, and have something to look forward to when reaching level 50.

If we were all level 50 with CP from the start it would just aggravate the perception that overland is too easy, and take away the fun leveling experience many of us enjoy.

That's interesting because when I level a new character I don't care at all what they are wearing since they can run Public Dungeons naked and without CP assigned and still clear them just fine. Gear just has little impact from 1-50. Skills do though.

I just throw on whatever I find. Maybe match a set if I can for the extra power. Some of this comes from experience though since I know that I am very hard to kill once certain skills are unlocked for any character.

SilverBride · August 2021

danno8 wrote: »

I think the answer already exists, and has since I can remember. If you are getting destroyed by content that is too tough for you while levelling, you just do a bit more lower level content then come back a few levels later and smash the mobs that were giving you trouble.

This only works for games whose zones have clear cut level ranges. ESO isn't set up that way. There is no lower level content to go back to.

danno8 wrote: »

In most other games this works pretty well, experienced players can challenge themselves by attempting higher level quests and mob fights, whereas less experienced or skilled players just hang back for a while and take on the lower level quests and mobs.

In most other games players challenge themselves with veteran dungeons and trials and other end game content that is specifically set up for this purpose. They do not go back to low level questing zones looking for a challenge.

Lady_Galadhiel · August 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Frankly if they just eliminated the levelling of 1-50 and started everyone at 50 and just incorporated more skill points through quests it would be a more sensible progression, and I'm not sure anyone would even notice...

I love playing new low level characters. They are fun because they are always finding better gear and upgrading themselves, and have something to look forward to when reaching level 50.

If we were all level 50 with CP from the start it would just aggravate the perception that overland is too easy, and take away the fun leveling experience many of us enjoy.

Exactly,I started a few weeks ago a new character on NA, from 0 as I have nothing there,no CP no gold (well now I have some gold but still not spending it),no gear,no mount speed.
It feels like I would be starting all over again to play the game

Loving it and I have a hard time in Summerset with the worldbosses,I died like 5 times during the grypons.

spartaxoxo · August 2021

corrosivechains wrote: »

I like how the main argument against difficulty is "some of us are bad at gaming so everyone needs to be punished with boring content!"

There are many games without a hardcore fanbase. There are none that exist without a casual one.

You need new and casual players to have a game at all. It is not punishing you that they ensure that they have enough money to provide you the kind of content that you want.

Biro123 · August 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I think the answer already exists, and has since I can remember. If you are getting destroyed by content that is too tough for you while levelling, you just do a bit more lower level content then come back a few levels later and smash the mobs that were giving you trouble.

This only works for games whose zones have clear cut level ranges. ESO isn't set up that way. There is no lower level content to go back to.

danno8 wrote: »

In most other games this works pretty well, experienced players can challenge themselves by attempting higher level quests and mob fights, whereas less experienced or skilled players just hang back for a while and take on the lower level quests and mobs.

In most other games players challenge themselves with veteran dungeons and trials and other end game content that is specifically set up for this purpose. They do not go back to low level questing zones looking for a challenge.

He's right though. Most other games do have overland zones made for different level characters, so if you want more challenge, you just skip sidequests and go on to the next zone while under-levelled.

ESO, compared to many other mmos actually has really good overland zones and questlines, its just a damn shame that what in my mind is the best, most detailed and largest block of content in the game is so disappointing in this area.

Biro123 · August 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

But to get back to the OP's request of more difficult overland mobs, I learned something from another thread that I wasn't aware of. If a player has CP 3600 they are able to apply these points to an alt of any level, so even a level 1 could have 3600 CP. No wonder overland appears too easy for these players.

The problem isn't with overland, it's with overpowered players. So the solution needs to address the player.

I have made multiple new characters, not spent CP, not used food or pots, not crafted any gear, just used what drops, and ITS FAR TOO EASY.

[Edit to remove bait]

SilverBride · August 2021

Biro123 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I think the answer already exists, and has since I can remember. If you are getting destroyed by content that is too tough for you while levelling, you just do a bit more lower level content then come back a few levels later and smash the mobs that were giving you trouble.

This only works for games whose zones have clear cut level ranges. ESO isn't set up that way. There is no lower level content to go back to.

danno8 wrote: »

In most other games this works pretty well, experienced players can challenge themselves by attempting higher level quests and mob fights, whereas less experienced or skilled players just hang back for a while and take on the lower level quests and mobs.

In most other games players challenge themselves with veteran dungeons and trials and other end game content that is specifically set up for this purpose. They do not go back to low level questing zones looking for a challenge.

He's right though. Most other games do have overland zones made for different level characters, so if you want more challenge, you just skip sidequests and go on to the next zone while under-levelled.

ESO, compared to many other mmos actually has really good overland zones and questlines, its just a damn shame that what in my mind is the best, most detailed and largest block of content in the game is so disappointing in this area.

I never denied that other games have overland zones of different level ranges. But ESO doesn't, so that solution won't work here.

I don't find overland the least bit disappointing. What I hated was the veteran zones before One Tamriel. I play to relax and have fun, not to struggle.

As I previously stated the problem isn't with overland... it's with overpowered players. I agree there should be a solution for this but not at the expense of the many players who like overland just as it is.

Iccotak · August 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

As I previously stated the problem isn't with overland... it's with overpowered players. I agree there should be a solution for this but not at the expense of the many players who like overland just as it is.

You don't have to be over powered for it to be too easy. You can be a fresh player out the gate and it could still be too easy. This has been voiced before.

zvavi wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Press a momento in my inventory, which debuffs me and makes me take more damage and deal less damage, while giving small boost to rewards. As a direct consequence I take longer to kill stuff, so my total reward over 1 hour of play stays the same.

Oh what memento is that? I'd like to play around with that too!

Me too! Hence the suggestion I have posted here and tried to defend while being accused of "just wanting better rewards" for a whole page of comments. As the dungeon example proved

zvavi wrote: »

Take dungeons for example, you get better (purple) and more (higher quality chests) rewards for vet, and yet everyone still farm normal for gear because it is more time efficient. Since it is proven (by dungeons) that it will not be unfair towards those that run normal, why shouldn't vet rewards be better (quantity-wise).

it does not exclusively mean unfair advantage towards those who don't use the theoretically implemented momento.

Here's the problem with this solution - it's no different from saying to just wear white gear and use only a couple skills.

Many of us have tried this solution - it doesn't change the fact that the enemies themselves are incapable, limited, slow, and boring.

Nerfing ourselves doesn't solve the problem because the enemies don't have any interesting mechanics Nor are they fast enough in the first place.

The combat is designed for complete beginners, who are learning it all for the first time. That is very evident with Story Bosses.

The combat will only get more exciting and fun if in a separate instance where it is no longer for complete beginners. Where enemies and bosses use more abilities, move faster, and do more damage.

I agree that my solution is not perfect and may not appeal to all, but it is much much less work (no need to create every boss twice/trice) and it enables playing together with friends of different levels. Your preferred solution (which in all honesty very appealing) is but a pipe dream, for three reasons, one, zos stated in the past that they do not want to split player base and want everyone to play everywhere (one Tamriel), two, lots of work, three, poor server performance won't handle more complicated faster enemies.

I agree that it is unrealistic - which is why my primary hope is a reform of quest bosses to have difficulty options with real challenge. That's far more realistic and attainable.

But the "Self Nerf" for overland is not just imperfect, it is completely ineffective.

"Self Nerf" solutions are about the same as doing nothing at all. That's my point.

I disagree on that though. Taking as an example IC horrors and wardens, they are still slow, predictable, and generally hard to die to, but they are ten folds more fun than regular quest bosses.

PS creating hard mode for quest bosses is still loads of work. Unless you mean only main quest bosses, and then I somehow see how it could work, but it will still be meh since your whole adventure be casual up to the last boss, kinda makes you feel like grind to get to the enjoyable part, and really does not change the feeling of adventure up till that point, from my PoV your solution is the ineffective one.

And those fights were universal for everyone - as in all players fighting that boss were all operating under the same rules. Those guys were tough for Everybody.

having some players with a self-nerf and others not with the the nerf would just lead to the feature having all kinds of balance issues and eventually just not used.

a difficulty has to be applied to everyone sharing the instance. I am still against a blanket change applied to current instance but having a shared instance with everyone operating under different difficulty settings is a Terrible Idea.

(EDIT: and many of us KNOW that Self Nerf doesn't work because we've tried it. There is no difference between wearing trash gear with one skill vs having an applied nerf. There is no difference between these two things because they amount to the same outcome.

You know why Veteran Dungeons are Harder than Normal Dungeons? because they not only have better stats but also more mechanics that everyone in the dungeon has to deal with. People don't share Normal & Veteran dungeons because the measures taken to actually make the content harder cannot happen in a shared instance between the two.)

Also we are talking about one separate instance, Not 9 separate ones like Pre - 1T. That is hardly the same thing.

and I am going to reiterate what I said previously to the "Split the player base" argument;

so which one is it for this hypothetical separate harder instance?

There is hardly anyone who would use the feature - OR - it would split the player base too much

You can't have it both ways.

As for Story Bosses - yeah I was referring to the Main Story Bosses - because I'd rather have those guys receive a buff/rework difficulty setting over an ineffective self-nerf that would be in constant need of rebalancing and would leave nobody happy because it would NOT solve the problem at all.

(because the problem is the enemies, NOT the players)

Self Nerf is like putting a bandage on a stab would, it's a temporary cover that doesn't solve the issue which needs addressing.

At least this one thing would make the end of the story arch fun. (or definitely update the story mini-bosses)

SilverBride · August 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

As I previously stated the problem isn't with overland... it's with overpowered players. I agree there should be a solution for this but not at the expense of the many players who like overland just as it is.

You don't have to be over powered for it to be too easy. You can be a fresh player out the gate and it could still be too easy. This has been voiced before.

This is all subjective. Some players find it too easy. Other players like it just as it is. Buffing overland enemies, which is what the OP has requested, is not the solution for anyone but those who think it is too easy. The rest of us get hurt in the process.

Agenericname · August 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I think the answer already exists, and has since I can remember. If you are getting destroyed by content that is too tough for you while levelling, you just do a bit more lower level content then come back a few levels later and smash the mobs that were giving you trouble.

This only works for games whose zones have clear cut level ranges. ESO isn't set up that way. There is no lower level content to go back to.

danno8 wrote: »

In most other games this works pretty well, experienced players can challenge themselves by attempting higher level quests and mob fights, whereas less experienced or skilled players just hang back for a while and take on the lower level quests and mobs.

In most other games players challenge themselves with veteran dungeons and trials and other end game content that is specifically set up for this purpose. They do not go back to low level questing zones looking for a challenge.

He's right though. Most other games do have overland zones made for different level characters, so if you want more challenge, you just skip sidequests and go on to the next zone while under-levelled.

ESO, compared to many other mmos actually has really good overland zones and questlines, its just a damn shame that what in my mind is the best, most detailed and largest block of content in the game is so disappointing in this area.

I never denied that other games have overland zones of different level ranges. But ESO doesn't, so that solution won't work here.

I don't find overland the least bit disappointing. What I hated was the veteran zones before One Tamriel. I play to relax and have fun, not to struggle.

As I previously stated the problem isn't with overland... it's with overpowered players. I agree there should be a solution for this but not at the expense of the many players who like overland just as it is.

ZOS doesnt have a solid track record with nerfing the high end without adversly affecting the low end. Its been an on-going complaint. They nerfed crit, many parses went up. At the same time most monster sets took a nerf because those players have a harder time hitting the same WD/SD number necessary. Thats just the more recent example.

I cant imagine a scenario where a veteran overland would generate more salt in the forums than a significant nerf to player power.

SilverBride · August 2021

Agenericname wrote: »

I cant imagine a scenario where a veteran overland would generate more salt in the forums than a significant nerf to player power.

I can because we aren't talking about nerfs to skills or gear. We are talking about taking away the only content some players enjoy.

There is a large casual playerbase in this game, many more than the number of fully decked out end game veteran players, few of whom even care about playing overland any more anyway. You cannot take the main source of play away from your casual playerbase without backlash.

mickeyx · August 2021

Mayrael wrote: »

Im with you on this OP. Maybe just maybe, if threads like this show up every week it is actually a valid point?

Since anyway most people who are against such a change don't even bother to try to understand and also don't want changes that wouldn't be harmful to them in any way (optional vet zones, etc.) I'll just write:

I and thousands of players want more difficult overland content[snip]. If you want to relax and don't pay attention to what you do, play the Sims or some browser-based vegetable farms.

[edited for baiting]

The fact is that players like you are not enough in numbers to sustain this game long-term. Casual players who want to chill and level up in overland by grinding mobs or questing, outnumber you completely. Not like this MMO was never difficult. It was at launch and it was completely deserted. This game has never been more populated since it welcomed a more casual solo-oriented player base by making changes to overland content.

Iccotak · August 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

As I previously stated the problem isn't with overland... it's with overpowered players. I agree there should be a solution for this but not at the expense of the many players who like overland just as it is.

You don't have to be over powered for it to be too easy. You can be a fresh player out the gate and it could still be too easy. This has been voiced before.

This is all subjective. Some players find it too easy. Other players like it just as it is. Buffing overland enemies, which is what the OP has requested, is not the solution for anyone but those who think it is too easy. The rest of us get hurt in the process.

I agree that just buffing the current instance is a bad idea - this would just lead to nerfs and we'd be right back to where we started.

I also think that sharing the instance with the different difficulties would never work (because trying the "Self-Nerf" method, I can say it has not worked)

No one is talking about "taking away content from others" - and again this complaint is not solely coming from fully decked out end game veteran players, most people who I see voice this complaint play casually too.

We really have got to stop framing this issue as if its only coming from Overpowered Elites - because that is not the truth.

mickeyx wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Im with you on this OP. Maybe just maybe, if threads like this show up every week it is actually a valid point?

Since anyway most people who are against such a change don't even bother to try to understand and also don't want changes that wouldn't be harmful to them in any way (optional vet zones, etc.) I'll just write:

I and thousands of players want more difficult overland content[snip]. If you want to relax and don't pay attention to what you do, play the Sims or some browser-based vegetable farms.

[edited for baiting]

The fact is that players like you are not enough in numbers to sustain this game long-term. Casual players who want to chill and level up in overland by grinding mobs or questing, outnumber you completely. Not like this MMO was never difficult. It was at launch and it was completely deserted. This game has never been more populated since it welcomed a more casual solo-oriented player base by making changes to overland content.

If all it really came down do was majority rule then Dungeons, Trials, and PvP would not be a thing

Also we don't actually know the numbers, only ZOS does.