Taunt issues and Immunity

mc_gijoe · July 2021

Because of the Elsewyr event there are oft times large groups of adventurers hunting dragons. Some of these adventurers have companions spec'd as tanks. there are adventurer (PC) tanks. Both the companion and PC taunt the dragon and it becomes immune.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can the dev team look into coding companion taunt to not override the PC taunt and/or causing taunt immunity? or maybe a major/minor taunt, where the companion gets the minor but the PC gets the major, so taunt will be controlled by the PC until they are no longer present or their taunt drops and then it will transfer to the Companion?

Marcus_Aurelius · July 2021

I don't think this is something ZoS should work on. This is clearly a player issue.
If people want to use companions they should learn how they work.

YandereGirlfriend · July 2021

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

I don't think this is something ZoS should work on. This is clearly a player issue.
You want to use companions? Learn how to use them.

They are talking about other people's Companions messing up the taunt of third-parties not Companions messing up the taunt of the player that they are grouped with.

It should be a trivial edit to the Companion taunt AI to set a simple condition to only taunt when the boss is otherwise un-taunted.

There is literally no downside to making that change either.

phaneub17_ESO · July 2021

Companions taunt isn't supposed to cast if there is already a taunt effect being applied to a target, if you refresh before the taunt effect falls off the companions won't cast their own.

You may also have problem with other players casting their own who may have it in their solo build for the Major/Minor Breach effect in Pierce Armor. There are players who don't realize it does force mobs to attack them because mobs do that anyway when they are solo. They could also have it because of their companion's ranged weapon to prevent them from drawing attention and then dodge rolling into oblivion.

Coatmagic · July 2021

It's not just the companions.

When dragon event is on, there are so many people! It is not a cohesive group, and there are many times multiple tanks.

Not everyone has the thought to wait to see if there is a tank actually tanking the dragon before they hit their taunt.

Also, let's face it, sometimes taunt gets hit accidentally even when you realise there is someone else doing the tanking.

Not sure there is an easy fix for this, not without complete overhaul of the system, and with the code being what it is, well...

FluffWit · July 2021

I'm sure a few of the people I was zerging dragons with today had companions set to tank and taunt. I'm also fairly sure those companions were dead 20 seconds into every dragon fight, even with several of us healing.

I was enjoying watching the one human tank that was around hold the dragons aggro like a boss.

rpa · July 2021

I don't have any challenge getting attention of a dragon with my moderate magcro DPS. It kind of hurts in light armor. I've also tried my wannabe tank instead, but I only can keep aggro until someone else wants it and then the dragon forgets about me and the other wannabe and chases some poor innocent DPS in light armor and chomps em. For a trial boss it would be fine but taunting overland bosses should not mess innocent players who are not even grouped.

spartaxoxo · July 2021

FluffWit wrote: »

I'm sure a few of the people I was zerging dragons with today had companions set to tank and taunt. I'm also fairly sure those companions were dead 20 seconds into every dragon fight, even with several of us healing.

I was enjoying watching the one human tank that was around hold the dragons aggro like a boss.

There's a heavy attack that seems to one shot them all, haven't seen one survive it yet. If the companions blocked it or never block I don't know, also don't know if would make a difference. They'd be able to hold the dragon just fine if it weren't for that heavy attack with the amount of healing large groups tend to pump into whatever is tanking.

phaneub17_ESO · July 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

I'm sure a few of the people I was zerging dragons with today had companions set to tank and taunt. I'm also fairly sure those companions were dead 20 seconds into every dragon fight, even with several of us healing.

I was enjoying watching the one human tank that was around hold the dragons aggro like a boss.

There's a heavy attack that seems to one shot them all, haven't seen one survive it yet. If the companions blocked it or never block I don't know, also don't know if would make a difference. They'd be able to hold the dragon just fine if it weren't for that heavy attack with the amount of healing large groups tend to pump into whatever is tanking.

The problem with that is the base health of companions is 30,000 while Bastian does have an extra 3% so 30,900. They're going to die no matter what as they don't have the awareness to precast a damage absorption shield before it hits and with that many people around, you casting Ward Ally is going to target another player over your own companion even if you want it to place it on your companion, yay smart targeting!

starkerealm · July 2021

mc_gijoe wrote: »

Both the companion and PC taunt the dragon and it becomes immune.

Uh... what?

There is no taunt immunity in ESO. Bosses (including dragons) have scripted actions which will target non-taunting characters, but you can't do anything about that. If the mechanic is coded to ignore taunt, it will ignore taunt.

Immunity is an issue with CC. If you have a DPS applying stuns indiscriminately, that can cause issues for the tank's CC and chain abilities.

Taunt doesn't confer taunt immunity to a target. At least not in the way you're thinking. What can happen is another player taunts an enemy getting its attention, then dies almost immediately (you'll see this a lot with glass cannon "DPS" running S&B, but anyone can potentially slot inner fire.) At that point, you can't reapply your taunt for a few seconds, but the boss is untaunted because the player that had taunt is now taking a dirtnap.

Companions shouldn't be affecting that at all. They shouldn't be applying taunt at all unless the dragon is untaunted. If the dragon is untaunted (or taunted by a companion, or another player) you should be able to pick up that taunt and run with it.

tomofhyrule · July 2021

Companions won't taunt when a monster is already taunted. They're programmed that they will not fire their inner fire/puncture if something is already taunted. The thing that's taunting the dragon off of you is other players.

I have a tank too and I notice that there are plenty of times at a WB or dragon that all of a sudden my taunts fall off, and it's because someone else with a SnB popped up and started poking it.

If I'm getting to a WB or Dragon in progress, I always make a point to go to where the thing's already facing just in case someone's already tanking it so even if I do accidentally throw out a puncture it won't move. I know several times people have taken something off of me and spun it onto the group of DDs, but I can't do anything about it.

...but yeah, if I'm the only tank at a dragon and I'm tanking it the whole time, it's so [snip] heroic. I love just taking a FUS RO DAH to the face and barely flinching, then returning with a fire breath of my own. God I need to replay Skyrim...

Dragonredux · July 2021

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

I'm sure a few of the people I was zerging dragons with today had companions set to tank and taunt. I'm also fairly sure those companions were dead 20 seconds into every dragon fight, even with several of us healing.

I was enjoying watching the one human tank that was around hold the dragons aggro like a boss.

There's a heavy attack that seems to one shot them all, haven't seen one survive it yet. If the companions blocked it or never block I don't know, also don't know if would make a difference. They'd be able to hold the dragon just fine if it weren't for that heavy attack with the amount of healing large groups tend to pump into whatever is tanking.

The problem with that is the base health of companions is 30,000 while Bastian does have an extra 3% so 30,900. They're going to die no matter what as they don't have the awareness to precast a damage absorption shield before it hits and with that many people around, you casting Ward Ally is going to target another player over your own companion even if you want it to place it on your companion, yay smart targeting!

There's a few heavy in the game that it doesn't matter if the companions attempt to block it, it'll just go through anyways. The dragons "Chomp" heavy is one of them. Granted, it doesn't matter Companions are dead in 2-3 bites anyways. They're dead weight against dragons unless they're a healer from my PTS experience.

Dragonredux · July 2021

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a tank too and I notice that there are plenty of times at a WB or dragon that all of a sudden my taunts fall off, and it's because someone else with a SnB popped up and started poking it.

If I'm getting to a WB or Dragon in progress, I always make a point to go to where the thing's already facing just in case someone's already tanking it so even if I do accidentally throw out a puncture it won't move. I know several times people have taken something off of me and spun it onto the group of DDs, but I can't do anything about it.

...but yeah, if I'm the only tank at a dragon and I'm tanking it the whole time, it's so [snip] heroic. I love just taking a FUS RO DAH to the face and barely flinching, then returning with a fire breath of my own. God I need to replay Skyrim...

I resonate with this so badly. I love tanking dragons but if someone else decides to have a taunt fight with you or a tank already exists you just feel so useless in the fight. You can pick up adds I guess but whatever I want the big scaly thing not atronach and undead #4239.

I used to have proc set build that alleviated this. I could do decent damage to contribute to fight or kill the dragon eventually solo if no one in zone decided to help that day. Unfortunately, this current patch killed that build so this old dragonslayer is kind of retired for the coming days.

Lucozade85 · July 2021

In normal content I like to randomly use a taunt as a DD just to wind the tank up.

mc_gijoe · July 2021

Maybe its just a bug, but it happens. I'll be there with no other pc tanks, only companions, and lose taunt. I can see bastion applying it. He dies and boss runs rampant because its immune to my taunt. I'll try peeps to test and get some footage of it.