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No Proc in No CP = No Good

  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    Big RIP they're using Ravenwatch.

    Welcome to the single bar era while CP players continue to randomly have two entire campaigns all for themselves.
  • NotTaylorSwift
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    Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this list of enabled sets?? @ZOS_GinaBruno anyone??

    You included a set that no longer drops in the game “relics of the physician ansur”. There are multiple stat procs on the list yet no necropotence for whatever reason. Shapeshifters chain mythic which only gives stats when using a transformation ulti, yet no death dealers fete which only gives stats. No wild hunt, which only gives speed etc etc. It just doesn’t make sense. Did you just draw at random from a hat?
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    Yeah the list of enabled sets is completely random as far as I can tell.

    Pariah is enabled but something like New Moon is not, um, what.

    Master Bow is enabled but Master Destro is not, okay....
  • Starshadw
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    Don't know where you were playing, but on PC NA grayhost was popping. Don't spread lies like that. Zos said it themselves there was outpouring support for no proc, but now that its moved to no cp, proponents of crutch sets will say that it was never popular when in fact, the reason it's gonna be dead is because of no cp.

    THIS.

    The fact of the matter remains that the CP campaign has always had the highest population. All of the other campaigns struggle to go over two bars (aside from during the Midyear Mayhem events, when more folks come to Cyro for boxes).

    By stuffing the no-proc rule into the no-CP rule, the end result will be no change - folks who like CP don't want to play in no-CP land. So while they might want the no-proc, they aren't going to move over to the no-CP campaign to get it.

    Edited by Starshadw on July 12, 2021 5:59PM
  • Tigor
    Tigor
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    All that guessing here is cloaking the truth. We could need something official from ZOS even if this all is a hoax.
    EP Decimation Elite - Ravenwatch EU/PC - the crown to follow
  • ninjagank
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    Tigor wrote: »
    All that guessing here is cloaking the truth. We could need something official from ZOS even if this all is a hoax.

    It was said in a Livestream by one of the staff members. It's in another thread.
    I drink and I stream things.
    Twitch: DrSlaughtr
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  • Cirantille
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    What a boring idea not even being able use masters weapons or molag kena
    Time to move to Blackreach :D
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    Cirantille wrote: »
    What a boring idea not even being able use masters weapons or molag kena
    Time to move to Blackreach :D

    Yep, this is like the worst of all possible worlds.

    CP players don't want to move to Non-CP and existing Non-CP players never asked for No-Proc.
  • Cirantille
    Cirantille
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    Cirantille wrote: »
    What a boring idea not even being able use masters weapons or molag kena
    Time to move to Blackreach :D

    Yep, this is like the worst of all possible worlds.

    CP players don't want to move to Non-CP and existing Non-CP players never asked for No-Proc.

    Yes I main GH on AD
    I assigned my EP & DC characters to No-Cp and was having fun recently but it is very meh so I will just pull all to Blackreach
    Restricting people from using the sets they paid for is not cool.
    Giving people the option to play no-proc as a seperate campaign, okay but enforcing such rules is repellent.
    There was a procfest issue few patches ago and it is fixed by making them scale with stats that no one uses proclander-3-set-and-kill-by-LA anymore
    No-proc was fun only the first week then it got boring real quickly
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    [snip]

    I paid less attention to Grey Host since I don't play there but Ravenwatch absolutely struggled to reach 2 bars in prime time during the last month of the proc tests.

    People voting with their feet and all of that after the novelty effect had worn off and the format became boring.

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 13, 2021 12:58PM
  • Thraben
    Thraben
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    [snip]

    I can understand that change creates fear, and I have sympathy with your point of view as a MagBlade; this is particularly true when one appreciates your achievements in the recent months.

    But next time try at least to read the things you quote. :
    Thraben wrote: »

    would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.
    .

    There is always the problem of bias when you ask people. Any result is typically only of anecdotal value, even if multiple sources (information of Guild leaders, forum polls which had even more than 70% Pro NonProc as a result) hint in this direction. But at least it's the opinion of multiple persons, and not of a single person thinking his or her opinion is the only one that counts. The thing is: If someone claims that "All Ravenwatch" wants something, even this kind of "evidence" is enough to reject it. In fact, you don't even need empirical data to refute a sentence of this type in social contexts.



    Instead of trying to call "fake news", how about giving reasonable arguments?

    I find the points:

    1) Ravenwatch should be NoProc, since it is already NoCP, and both Proc sets and CP form a barrier that is bad for the New Player Experience.
    2) Splitting up the NoCP campaigns would be bad for faction balance and player numbers like it was in the past

    convincing, but nothing more. Give reasonable arguments instead of personal preferences and I would be willing to change my mind; and maybe you can change the minds of these many people who have literally asked me to lobby for NoProc Ravenwatch as well.

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 13, 2021 12:57PM
    Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs

    DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.

    DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.
  • FangOfTheTwoMoons
    FangOfTheTwoMoons
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    [snip]

    I paid less attention to Grey Host since I don't play there but Ravenwatch absolutely struggled to reach 2 bars in prime time during the last month of the proc tests.

    People voting with their feet and all of that after the novelty effect had worn off and the format became boring.

    That's Ravenwatch's problem. Pointing that out doesn't change the fact that Greyhost was full the entire test.

    We shouldn't even be debating this. ZOS should just give the players what they want. It wont hurt anyone to make more campaigns. What hurts players is forcing them to play a way they don't wanna play, as in the case with forcing no CP players into no proc and forcing No Proc fans into no CP.

    This problem of forcing players into how the devs invision the game, instead of listening to feedback has become a problem. Look how many threads there are about bringing back specific queues for BGs. I know it's off topic but I can't help but see the parallels.
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 13, 2021 12:58PM
  • MrMazurski
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    Funny.

    I can't find this poll, but a lot of people voted in favor of Cyro's no proc.
    Is changing Ravenwatch no proc is good? On average, because it locks people into very extreme choices.

    Well, more people saying that no proc was a flop. Oddly enough, if we look at the old topics, while the tests were underway, there are many topics that have had fun, enjoy a lot more to the no proc campaign than normal.

    I remember myself how many people struggled and just couldn't cope with PvP when they had to play themselves, and not the sets that did the job for them.

    But yes, your opinion is worth, rest are not. Open your eyes.
    - Where "Update on Cyrodiil Performance & Upcoming AOE Tests"? I wish ZOS would stop kicking players' balls, especially those on Cyro
    - - PC-EU / Ravenwatch
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    @MrMazurski Please tell me more about how stat sets like New Moon Acolyte or Clever Alchemist are "playing the game for you."

    I would actually be completely fine if "free damage" sets like Caluurion's were banned but stat-based sets like the two above are getting caught up in the crossfire for no discernible reason.
    MrMazurski wrote: »
    Thraben wrote: »
    I

    All of Ravenwatch is hoping that they do the right thing and create a separate campaign for that game mode.

    Please abstain from making such strong statements. You may have personal reasons for it, and things might be different in the US, but

    Tigor and I represent a substantial part of Europe's veteran NoCP campaign playerbase, something you probably did not know. We haven't been involved in the decision, but if the Devs would have asked me, I would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.

    My personal opinion should be clear, as one can easily see on my avatar. I will miss my beloved Deadroth. But sometimes you have to see the greater good as well as the clear majority independent of personal desires.


    For now, it is more important to change how VD works, and then buff Proximity Detonation to compensate for it, so that Bomblade players can still have fun in a No-Proc environment.


    U don’t represent anyone. Don’t talk as if ur bringing other people’s opinions to the forums. I highly doubt u polled ur 500 player guilds.

    Why are there so many people on this forum who speak for others? If ZOS put it so, I think they had premises for it.

    Personally, I am happy with the no percent of the campaign. No bombers, stupid bulids that one shot you, even if you are the most tanking tank even world saw. For me, these tests were one of the best PvP experiences I've had. Pure combat skill vs skill, class vs class. No additional damage from heaven, because someone has an op proc set that do everything for him.

    Ur saying I’m speaking for others when what I quoted is literally someone speaking for others? If the majority of players like no proc they would have kept playing throughout the whole test. They didn’t. Campaigns weren’t even getting locked in the last month of no proc test.

    It was a novelty, and it died pretty fast.

    That's absolutely false but whatever lol

    I paid less attention to Grey Host since I don't play there but Ravenwatch absolutely struggled to reach 2 bars in prime time during the last month of the proc tests.

    People voting with their feet and all of that after the novelty effect had worn off and the format became boring.
    We shouldn't even be debating this. ZOS should just give the players what they want. It wont hurt anyone to make more campaigns. What hurts players is forcing them to play a way they don't wanna play, as in the case with forcing no CP players into no proc and forcing No Proc fans into no CP.

    I completely agree with you on this.

    This is clearly the best possible solution to the problem.
  • neferpitou73
    neferpitou73
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    @MrMazurski Please tell me more about how stat sets like New Moon Acolyte or Clever Alchemist are "playing the game for you."

    I would actually be completely fine if "free damage" sets like Caluurion's were banned but stat-based sets like the two above are getting caught up in the crossfire for no discernible reason.
    MrMazurski wrote: »
    Thraben wrote: »
    I

    All of Ravenwatch is hoping that they do the right thing and create a separate campaign for that game mode.

    Please abstain from making such strong statements. You may have personal reasons for it, and things might be different in the US, but

    Tigor and I represent a substantial part of Europe's veteran NoCP campaign playerbase, something you probably did not know. We haven't been involved in the decision, but if the Devs would have asked me, I would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.

    My personal opinion should be clear, as one can easily see on my avatar. I will miss my beloved Deadroth. But sometimes you have to see the greater good as well as the clear majority independent of personal desires.


    For now, it is more important to change how VD works, and then buff Proximity Detonation to compensate for it, so that Bomblade players can still have fun in a No-Proc environment.


    U don’t represent anyone. Don’t talk as if ur bringing other people’s opinions to the forums. I highly doubt u polled ur 500 player guilds.

    Why are there so many people on this forum who speak for others? If ZOS put it so, I think they had premises for it.

    Personally, I am happy with the no percent of the campaign. No bombers, stupid bulids that one shot you, even if you are the most tanking tank even world saw. For me, these tests were one of the best PvP experiences I've had. Pure combat skill vs skill, class vs class. No additional damage from heaven, because someone has an op proc set that do everything for him.

    Ur saying I’m speaking for others when what I quoted is literally someone speaking for others? If the majority of players like no proc they would have kept playing throughout the whole test. They didn’t. Campaigns weren’t even getting locked in the last month of no proc test.

    It was a novelty, and it died pretty fast.

    That's absolutely false but whatever lol

    I paid less attention to Grey Host since I don't play there but Ravenwatch absolutely struggled to reach 2 bars in prime time during the last month of the proc tests.

    People voting with their feet and all of that after the novelty effect had worn off and the format became boring.
    We shouldn't even be debating this. ZOS should just give the players what they want. It wont hurt anyone to make more campaigns. What hurts players is forcing them to play a way they don't wanna play, as in the case with forcing no CP players into no proc and forcing No Proc fans into no CP.

    I completely agree with you on this.

    This is clearly the best possible solution to the problem.


    Oh it's even more stupid than this. They're allowing Silks of the Sun which does the same thing as NMA and is a proc. Same thing for Netch's touch and Innate Axiom, War Maiden, etc. So that's apparently ok.

    They're allowing Maelstrom Destro but not Resto because that makes sense.
    Edited by neferpitou73 on July 13, 2021 1:42AM
  • Cirantille
    Cirantille
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    @MrMazurski Please tell me more about how stat sets like New Moon Acolyte or Clever Alchemist are "playing the game for you."

    I would actually be completely fine if "free damage" sets like Caluurion's were banned but stat-based sets like the two above are getting caught up in the crossfire for no discernible reason.
    MrMazurski wrote: »
    Thraben wrote: »
    I

    All of Ravenwatch is hoping that they do the right thing and create a separate campaign for that game mode.

    Please abstain from making such strong statements. You may have personal reasons for it, and things might be different in the US, but

    Tigor and I represent a substantial part of Europe's veteran NoCP campaign playerbase, something you probably did not know. We haven't been involved in the decision, but if the Devs would have asked me, I would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.

    My personal opinion should be clear, as one can easily see on my avatar. I will miss my beloved Deadroth. But sometimes you have to see the greater good as well as the clear majority independent of personal desires.


    For now, it is more important to change how VD works, and then buff Proximity Detonation to compensate for it, so that Bomblade players can still have fun in a No-Proc environment.


    U don’t represent anyone. Don’t talk as if ur bringing other people’s opinions to the forums. I highly doubt u polled ur 500 player guilds.

    Why are there so many people on this forum who speak for others? If ZOS put it so, I think they had premises for it.

    Personally, I am happy with the no percent of the campaign. No bombers, stupid bulids that one shot you, even if you are the most tanking tank even world saw. For me, these tests were one of the best PvP experiences I've had. Pure combat skill vs skill, class vs class. No additional damage from heaven, because someone has an op proc set that do everything for him.

    Ur saying I’m speaking for others when what I quoted is literally someone speaking for others? If the majority of players like no proc they would have kept playing throughout the whole test. They didn’t. Campaigns weren’t even getting locked in the last month of no proc test.

    It was a novelty, and it died pretty fast.

    That's absolutely false but whatever lol

    I paid less attention to Grey Host since I don't play there but Ravenwatch absolutely struggled to reach 2 bars in prime time during the last month of the proc tests.

    People voting with their feet and all of that after the novelty effect had worn off and the format became boring.
    We shouldn't even be debating this. ZOS should just give the players what they want. It wont hurt anyone to make more campaigns. What hurts players is forcing them to play a way they don't wanna play, as in the case with forcing no CP players into no proc and forcing No Proc fans into no CP.

    I completely agree with you on this.

    This is clearly the best possible solution to the problem.


    Some of these sets do not appear on our death cap such as Molag Kena
    Edited by Cirantille on July 13, 2021 4:37AM
  • MrMazurski
    MrMazurski
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    @MrMazurski Please tell me more about how stat sets like New Moon Acolyte or Clever Alchemist are "playing the game for you."

    I would actually be completely fine if "free damage" sets like Caluurion's were banned but stat-based sets like the two above are getting caught up in the crossfire for no discernible reason.
    MrMazurski wrote: »
    Thraben wrote: »
    I

    All of Ravenwatch is hoping that they do the right thing and create a separate campaign for that game mode.

    Please abstain from making such strong statements. You may have personal reasons for it, and things might be different in the US, but

    Tigor and I represent a substantial part of Europe's veteran NoCP campaign playerbase, something you probably did not know. We haven't been involved in the decision, but if the Devs would have asked me, I would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.

    My personal opinion should be clear, as one can easily see on my avatar. I will miss my beloved Deadroth. But sometimes you have to see the greater good as well as the clear majority independent of personal desires.


    For now, it is more important to change how VD works, and then buff Proximity Detonation to compensate for it, so that Bomblade players can still have fun in a No-Proc environment.


    U don’t represent anyone. Don’t talk as if ur bringing other people’s opinions to the forums. I highly doubt u polled ur 500 player guilds.

    Why are there so many people on this forum who speak for others? If ZOS put it so, I think they had premises for it.

    Personally, I am happy with the no percent of the campaign. No bombers, stupid bulids that one shot you, even if you are the most tanking tank even world saw. For me, these tests were one of the best PvP experiences I've had. Pure combat skill vs skill, class vs class. No additional damage from heaven, because someone has an op proc set that do everything for him.

    Ur saying I’m speaking for others when what I quoted is literally someone speaking for others? If the majority of players like no proc they would have kept playing throughout the whole test. They didn’t. Campaigns weren’t even getting locked in the last month of no proc test.

    It was a novelty, and it died pretty fast.

    That's absolutely false but whatever lol

    I paid less attention to Grey Host since I don't play there but Ravenwatch absolutely struggled to reach 2 bars in prime time during the last month of the proc tests.

    People voting with their feet and all of that after the novelty effect had worn off and the format became boring.
    We shouldn't even be debating this. ZOS should just give the players what they want. It wont hurt anyone to make more campaigns. What hurts players is forcing them to play a way they don't wanna play, as in the case with forcing no CP players into no proc and forcing No Proc fans into no CP.

    I completely agree with you on this.

    This is clearly the best possible solution to the problem.

    I do not think you do not understand the definition no proc/ proc sets, so there is nothing to get in talking about this topic.
    - Where "Update on Cyrodiil Performance & Upcoming AOE Tests"? I wish ZOS would stop kicking players' balls, especially those on Cyro
    - - PC-EU / Ravenwatch
  • Blacksmoke
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    Cirantille wrote: »
    What a boring idea not even being able use masters weapons or molag kena
    Time to move to Blackreach :D

    Yep, this is like the worst of all possible worlds.

    CP players don't want to move to Non-CP and existing Non-CP players never asked for No-Proc.

    There are quite a few players that do want a No-CP no proc server. In my guild around half of the people are for the other half against. There is a poll on the forums that showed that 73% of those that voted want a no proc server. My personal opinion is that we should have one. I will not be going there I like my build options. But there are a lot of people that do want it so I see no reason to not make one really.. yeah all server will lose some people bit who cares might make the lagg a tiny bit less.
    Champion point: 645
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  • MrMazurski
    MrMazurski
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    Blacksmoke wrote: »
    Cirantille wrote: »
    What a boring idea not even being able use masters weapons or molag kena
    Time to move to Blackreach :D

    Yep, this is like the worst of all possible worlds.

    CP players don't want to move to Non-CP and existing Non-CP players never asked for No-Proc.

    There are quite a few players that do want a No-CP no proc server. In my guild around half of the people are for the other half against. There is a poll on the forums that showed that 73% of those that voted want a no proc server. My personal opinion is that we should have one. I will not be going there I like my build options. But there are a lot of people that do want it so I see no reason to not make one really.. yeah all server will lose some people bit who cares might make the lagg a tiny bit less.

    [snip] black magic, on this forum none of the ESO players wants no proc. And the ZOS make their decisions without prerequisites, they are probably possessed by deadric powers

    Im Joking

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 13, 2021 12:59PM
    - Where "Update on Cyrodiil Performance & Upcoming AOE Tests"? I wish ZOS would stop kicking players' balls, especially those on Cyro
    - - PC-EU / Ravenwatch
  • DjinnAeternam
    DjinnAeternam
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    Tigor wrote: »
    Tigor wrote: »
    Really lets not proc in no cp, it will better prevent from lag favor and server priority. Everyone knows this, no proc testing and polling underlined it. And now relax! 🏕

    It is funny how players still make claims that no-proc improves performance and there won't be as much lag.
    Even ZOS said in their statement (before they went no-proc) that the performance got even slightly worse during the no-proc testing.

    Just say it 20 more times and it might become reality, right?

    Then I will tell you something more. No need to repeat. I am living in reality and presence. Throwing everything in battle is certainly causing distortion and handicap the area. So do proc sets, I classify that as lag. What ZOS stated is something else.

    Then use the same definitions as everyone else in reality.

    Let me help you with that
    https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/LAG.html

    What you claim is nothing near of lag. "Distortion and handicap" are very different things from lag.

    Also performance didn't improved one bit with no-procs, neither it will improve after this change, we all know that.
  • NotTaylorSwift
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    Thraben wrote: »
    [snip]
    I can understand that change creates fear, and I have sympathy with your point of view as a MagBlade; this is particularly true when one appreciates your achievements in the recent months.

    But next time try at least to read the things you quote. :
    Thraben wrote: »

    would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.
    .

    There is always the problem of bias when you ask people. Any result is typically only of anecdotal value, even if multiple sources (information of Guild leaders, forum polls which had even more than 70% Pro NonProc as a result) hint in this direction. But at least it's the opinion of multiple persons, and not of a single person thinking his or her opinion is the only one that counts. The thing is: If someone claims that "All Ravenwatch" wants something, even this kind of "evidence" is enough to reject it. In fact, you don't even need empirical data to refute a sentence of this type in social contexts.



    Instead of trying to call "fake news", how about giving reasonable arguments?

    I find the points:

    1) Ravenwatch should be NoProc, since it is already NoCP, and both Proc sets and CP form a barrier that is bad for the New Player Experience.
    2) Splitting up the NoCP campaigns would be bad for faction balance and player numbers like it was in the past

    convincing, but nothing more. Give reasonable arguments instead of personal preferences and I would be willing to change my mind; and maybe you can change the minds of these many people who have literally asked me to lobby for NoProc Ravenwatch as well.

    Dude what was the point of this reply? Ur saying ur basically guessing that 60% of ur guild are in favour of no procs. This is just pure bias because u are obviously in favour of it. Show me the poll that states roughly 60% of ur 500 man guild is in favour of no proc, then I will believe you. Until then, u don’t represent anyone.

    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 13, 2021 1:00PM
  • NotTaylorSwift
    NotTaylorSwift
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    @MrMazurski Please tell me more about how stat sets like New Moon Acolyte or Clever Alchemist are "playing the game for you."

    I would actually be completely fine if "free damage" sets like Caluurion's were banned but stat-based sets like the two above are getting caught up in the crossfire for no discernible reason.
    MrMazurski wrote: »
    Thraben wrote: »
    I

    All of Ravenwatch is hoping that they do the right thing and create a separate campaign for that game mode.

    Please abstain from making such strong statements. You may have personal reasons for it, and things might be different in the US, but

    Tigor and I represent a substantial part of Europe's veteran NoCP campaign playerbase, something you probably did not know. We haven't been involved in the decision, but if the Devs would have asked me, I would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.

    My personal opinion should be clear, as one can easily see on my avatar. I will miss my beloved Deadroth. But sometimes you have to see the greater good as well as the clear majority independent of personal desires.


    For now, it is more important to change how VD works, and then buff Proximity Detonation to compensate for it, so that Bomblade players can still have fun in a No-Proc environment.


    U don’t represent anyone. Don’t talk as if ur bringing other people’s opinions to the forums. I highly doubt u polled ur 500 player guilds.

    Why are there so many people on this forum who speak for others? If ZOS put it so, I think they had premises for it.

    Personally, I am happy with the no percent of the campaign. No bombers, stupid bulids that one shot you, even if you are the most tanking tank even world saw. For me, these tests were one of the best PvP experiences I've had. Pure combat skill vs skill, class vs class. No additional damage from heaven, because someone has an op proc set that do everything for him.

    Ur saying I’m speaking for others when what I quoted is literally someone speaking for others? If the majority of players like no proc they would have kept playing throughout the whole test. They didn’t. Campaigns weren’t even getting locked in the last month of no proc test.

    It was a novelty, and it died pretty fast.

    That's absolutely false but whatever lol

    I paid less attention to Grey Host since I don't play there but Ravenwatch absolutely struggled to reach 2 bars in prime time during the last month of the proc tests.

    People voting with their feet and all of that after the novelty effect had worn off and the format became boring.
    We shouldn't even be debating this. ZOS should just give the players what they want. It wont hurt anyone to make more campaigns. What hurts players is forcing them to play a way they don't wanna play, as in the case with forcing no CP players into no proc and forcing No Proc fans into no CP.

    I completely agree with you on this.

    This is clearly the best possible solution to the problem.


    Oh it's even more stupid than this. They're allowing Silks of the Sun which does the same thing as NMA and is a proc. Same thing for Netch's touch and Innate Axiom, War Maiden, etc. So that's apparently ok.

    They're allowing Maelstrom Destro but not Resto because that makes sense.

    Also master bow but not master destro. Both of which give weapon/spell dmg on a proc. Makes so much sense!!
  • MrMazurski
    MrMazurski
    ✭✭✭
    Thraben wrote: »
    [snip]

    I can understand that change creates fear, and I have sympathy with your point of view as a MagBlade; this is particularly true when one appreciates your achievements in the recent months.

    But next time try at least to read the things you quote. :
    Thraben wrote: »

    would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.
    .

    There is always the problem of bias when you ask people. Any result is typically only of anecdotal value, even if multiple sources (information of Guild leaders, forum polls which had even more than 70% Pro NonProc as a result) hint in this direction. But at least it's the opinion of multiple persons, and not of a single person thinking his or her opinion is the only one that counts. The thing is: If someone claims that "All Ravenwatch" wants something, even this kind of "evidence" is enough to reject it. In fact, you don't even need empirical data to refute a sentence of this type in social contexts.



    Instead of trying to call "fake news", how about giving reasonable arguments?

    I find the points:

    1) Ravenwatch should be NoProc, since it is already NoCP, and both Proc sets and CP form a barrier that is bad for the New Player Experience.
    2) Splitting up the NoCP campaigns would be bad for faction balance and player numbers like it was in the past

    convincing, but nothing more. Give reasonable arguments instead of personal preferences and I would be willing to change my mind; and maybe you can change the minds of these many people who have literally asked me to lobby for NoProc Ravenwatch as well.

    Dude what was the point of this reply? Ur saying ur basically guessing that 60% of ur guild are in favour of no procs. This is just pure bias because u are obviously in favour of it. Show me the poll that states roughly 60% of ur 500 man guild is in favour of no proc, then I will believe you. Until then, u don’t represent anyone.

    but guessing that nobody wants to no proc is ok? Give me the results too? The shouting of a few people in the forum is nothing

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563888/poll-no-procs-on-all-campaigns-or-only-a-few

    it is not a well-defined survey, but it already gives a reference that many people had a good time in no proc
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 13, 2021 1:01PM
    - Where "Update on Cyrodiil Performance & Upcoming AOE Tests"? I wish ZOS would stop kicking players' balls, especially those on Cyro
    - - PC-EU / Ravenwatch
  • NotTaylorSwift
    NotTaylorSwift
    ✭✭✭✭
    MrMazurski wrote: »
    Thraben wrote: »
    .
    Thraben wrote: »
    I

    All of Ravenwatch is hoping that they do the right thing and create a separate campaign for that game mode.

    Please abstain from making such strong statements. You may have personal reasons for it, and things might be different in the US, but

    Tigor and I represent a substantial part of Europe's veteran NoCP campaign playerbase, something you probably did not know. We haven't been involved in the decision, but if the Devs would have asked me, I would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.

    My personal opinion should be clear, as one can easily see on my avatar. I will miss my beloved Deadroth. But sometimes you have to see the greater good as well as the clear majority independent of personal desires.


    For now, it is more important to change how VD works, and then buff Proximity Detonation to compensate for it, so that Bomblade players can still have fun in a No-Proc environment.


    U don’t represent anyone. Don’t talk as if ur bringing other people’s opinions to the forums. I highly doubt u polled ur 500 player guilds.

    I can understand that change creates fear, and I have sympathy with your point of view as a MagBlade; this is particularly true when one appreciates your achievements in the recent months.

    But next time try at least to read the things you quote. :
    Thraben wrote: »

    would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.
    .

    There is always the problem of bias when you ask people. Any result is typically only of anecdotal value, even if multiple sources (information of Guild leaders, forum polls which had even more than 70% Pro NonProc as a result) hint in this direction. But at least it's the opinion of multiple persons, and not of a single person thinking his or her opinion is the only one that counts. The thing is: If someone claims that "All Ravenwatch" wants something, even this kind of "evidence" is enough to reject it. In fact, you don't even need empirical data to refute a sentence of this type in social contexts.



    Instead of trying to call "fake news", how about giving reasonable arguments?

    I find the points:

    1) Ravenwatch should be NoProc, since it is already NoCP, and both Proc sets and CP form a barrier that is bad for the New Player Experience.
    2) Splitting up the NoCP campaigns would be bad for faction balance and player numbers like it was in the past

    convincing, but nothing more. Give reasonable arguments instead of personal preferences and I would be willing to change my mind; and maybe you can change the minds of these many people who have literally asked me to lobby for NoProc Ravenwatch as well.

    Dude what was the point of this reply? Ur saying ur basically guessing that 60% of ur guild are in favour of no procs. This is just pure bias because u are obviously in favour of it. Show me the poll that states roughly 60% of ur 500 man guild is in favour of no proc, then I will believe you. Until then, u don’t represent anyone.

    but guessing that nobody wants to no proc is ok? Give me the results too? The shouting of a few people in the forum is nothing

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563888/poll-no-procs-on-all-campaigns-or-only-a-few

    it is not a well-defined survey, but it already gives a reference that many people had a good time in no proc

    U half answered your own post because that survey shows people in favour of a separate campaign (it’s not that many votes in total but w/e). Like I said earlier, the no proc was a novelty that people enjoyed for a time. Imo, people wanting a separate campaign means they want to be able to play no proc when they want to and then go back to ‘normal play’ when they want to also.

    The fact that in the last month or two of the no proc test the population of cyrodiil was struggling to reach pop lock clearly shows people were mostly over it after a while.

    Honestly zos should gather data like this in game cos these forums are super biased anyway. I bet less than half of players even use them. Idk why they do not just do polls in game with the options to answer or just dismiss it. They would get a much more accurate general opinion that way…

    (I also didn’t say nobody wants it, I said he doesn’t represent anyone)
    Edited by NotTaylorSwift on July 13, 2021 12:50PM
  • ZOS_Lunar
    ZOS_Lunar
    admin
    Greetings!

    We've removed some posts from this thread as they violated our rules on baiting. We would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

    Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.
    The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
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    Staff Post
  • Qagh
    Qagh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's good for Gray Host (PC/EU/CP). Gray Host is dead at the moment. I hope people come back from Ravenwatch after update 31.
    CP 2100+ - PC/EU - PvP: Gray Host
    Qagh - StamDK - Khajiit - DC - Grand Overlord (AR 50)
    Qagho - MagSorc - Khajiit - DC
    Qaghi - Stamblade - Khajiit - DC - Grand Overlord (AR 50)
    Pelzgesicht - Magcro - Khajiit - DC
    Qaghoo - Magplar - Khajiit - DC
  • Tigor
    Tigor
    ✭✭✭
    MrMazurski wrote: »
    Thraben wrote: »
    I

    All of Ravenwatch is hoping that they do the right thing and create a separate campaign for that game mode.

    Please abstain from making such strong statements. You may have personal reasons for it, and things might be different in the US, but

    Tigor and I represent a substantial part of Europe's veteran NoCP campaign playerbase, something you probably did not know. We haven't been involved in the decision, but if the Devs would have asked me, I would have estimated - based on guild members' stated opinion -, that among those, roughly 60% are in favor of the NoCP No Proc campaign, 30% don't care, and mainly only the Bombblade players are against it.

    My personal opinion should be clear, as one can easily see on my avatar. I will miss my beloved Deadroth. But sometimes you have to see the greater good as well as the clear majority independent of personal desires.


    For now, it is more important to change how VD works, and then buff Proximity Detonation to compensate for it, so that Bomblade players can still have fun in a No-Proc environment.


    U don’t represent anyone. Don’t talk as if ur bringing other people’s opinions to the forums. I highly doubt u polled ur 500 player guilds.

    Why are there so many people on this forum who speak for others? If ZOS put it so, I think they had premises for it.

    Personally, I am happy with the no percent of the campaign. No bombers, stupid bulids that one shot you, even if you are the most tanking tank even world saw. For me, these tests were one of the best PvP experiences I've had. Pure combat skill vs skill, class vs class. No additional damage from heaven, because someone has an op proc set that do everything for him.

    Ur saying I’m speaking for others when what I quoted is literally someone speaking for others? If the majority of players like no proc they would have kept playing throughout the whole test. They didn’t. Campaigns weren’t even getting locked in the last month of no proc test.

    It was a novelty, and it died pretty fast.

    Speaking for others does that even excist? Lets not make it a big issue here. Some can laugh about it.

    Test or no test, the campaign we play in is always locked at prime time. Only without procs everything was more natural
    Tigor wrote: »
    Tigor wrote: »
    Really lets not proc in no cp, it will better prevent from lag favor and server priority. Everyone knows this, no proc testing and polling underlined it. And now relax! 🏕

    It is funny how players still make claims that no-proc improves performance and there won't be as much lag.
    Even ZOS said in their statement (before they went no-proc) that the performance got even slightly worse during the no-proc testing.

    Just say it 20 more times and it might become reality, right?

    Then I will tell you something more. No need to repeat. I am living in reality and presence. Throwing everything in battle is certainly causing distortion and handicap the area. So do proc sets, I classify that as lag. What ZOS stated is something else.

    Then use the same definitions as everyone else in reality.

    Let me help you with that
    https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/LAG.html

    What you claim is nothing near of lag. "Distortion and handicap" are very different things from lag.

    Also performance didn't improved one bit with no-procs, neither it will improve after this change, we all know that.

    Good point to mention the definition of lag. The definition is, slow response and falling behind. I expected a comment about it. For the distortion aspect in combat I mean that the reality in combat has uptime on the perception of the player. Things happend already before the player even noticed (as a time warp :wink: ). The handicaps are things as blacking out of button functionality from the player side, slow walking, and combat bug and also disconnecting from the game. In this game the classical definition of lag with the server can be supplemented by the experience of the player. With the proc sets activated distortion and handicaps are more common again, aspecially when there is a lot of activity in the area. Today I am not mentioning what activities I mean in particular, but there are 2 playstyles depending highly on the procs, while there are many more styles.
    EP Decimation Elite - Ravenwatch EU/PC - the crown to follow
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    MrMazurski wrote: »
    Blacksmoke wrote: »
    Cirantille wrote: »
    What a boring idea not even being able use masters weapons or molag kena
    Time to move to Blackreach :D

    Yep, this is like the worst of all possible worlds.

    CP players don't want to move to Non-CP and existing Non-CP players never asked for No-Proc.

    There are quite a few players that do want a No-CP no proc server. In my guild around half of the people are for the other half against. There is a poll on the forums that showed that 73% of those that voted want a no proc server. My personal opinion is that we should have one. I will not be going there I like my build options. But there are a lot of people that do want it so I see no reason to not make one really.. yeah all server will lose some people bit who cares might make the lagg a tiny bit less.

    [snip] black magic, on this forum none of the ESO players wants no proc. And the ZOS make their decisions without prerequisites, they are probably possessed by deadric powers

    Im Joking

    [edited for baiting]

    I'm using those sets as examples because they are banned in the No-Proc format despite being pure stat sets.

    You were the one who used "playing the game for you" as the excuse for getting rid of most sets and I am here to remind you that the universe of sets being disabled is FAR greater than the cheesy "free damage" sets such as Caluurion's.
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