Every dps build feels the same?

MagicPie · May 2020

Hi all, so after 2 months of playing ESO every day i had tons of fun and i am glad i bought the game. Quests are great, story is too, i love vet dungeons and more or less every other aspect of the game.

However when it comes to DPS role i was really surprised how every dps class plays and feels the same. Every stamina dps use 2H/DW and a Bow, with pretty much same abilities except class ones that are like few useful ones that ppl actually use within rotation.
And to my HUGE disappointment Magicka dps can only use a staff? Come on guys....why cant we have magic swords, wands, relics, anything?

So for the first time in my mmo gaming i decided to go healer instead of dps that i always play.....i really wish we had more viable builds and more weapons to use.

Faulgor · May 2020

Yeah. Welcome to ESO.

There is some leeway in that you can equip 2H on the backbar, although not optimal it can work. Use Stampede to proc your backbar enchantment. Sadly since the enchantment nerf on 1h weapons, DW backbar doesn't work that well because it doesn't proc the full magnitude enchantment of 2h/bows. Bleh.
Bow/bow used to be good for 1 or 2 patches and then became meh again as well. It's not completely terrible, though. There are builds like this that while not optimal, are viable for most content. Dare to be creative.

As for magicka weapons besides staves ... those are not really a "thing" in TES, but it would be cool if we could equip some sort of spells directly into our hands like in Skyrim. Spellcrafting please ...

Niaver · May 2020

I hate the fact that there is only one magicka weapon. Despite that, magicka DDs are more unique since they have more class abilities.
Also I belive newer classes - Warden and Necro - have more "uniqueness" in them.

Loves_guars · May 2020

Yes, sadly. This is one major problem to me. "Play the way you want" but only if you are goofying in overland content. Endgame is always the same skills. That's also why I don't care when they announce new classes.

Ratzkifal · May 2020

The weapon options for magicka are a shame.
But hey, if they fix the Perfected Blackrose Dualwield bug on PTS, Stam dps in Greymoor can probably use those instead of Maelstrom bows! 10% increased damage sounds good to me and is usually more than what a vMA bow can provide (except it being less reliable since it needs to damage an enemy, making it a trade-off).
I like that they are introducing some actual diversity with that instead of just making another BiS item.

Nyteshade · May 2020

Early on I felt the classes were more unique and had a different feel. Unfortunately I think the complaining about balance constantly lead to a homologizing of the classes.

It's the current reality for the most part.
Same sets work for all
Same weapon sets are best.
a few skills are the best.

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

That’s what all the nerfs created but no one is stopping you from theory crafting.

Two months is not even dipping your toes in the water. No offense meant, Cx.

Build diversity is still certainly there, just not as prevalent.

During the PTS’ I work out all my new builds. Though diversity is lacking greatly to what it use to be from all the over nerfing.

But that is another discussion

Constructively speaking, let your own creativity allow you to experiment and have fun. It is a video game after all

Being that you’re new, you are probably copying other peeps builds. There is nothing wrong with that but be certain to try different set ups for enjoyments sake. You’ll thank yourself later

Theory Crafting is a really engaging part of this game. Check out the build editors and other tools to help you !!

Until they kill or completely ruin Cp, learn it. After you have, you will be amazed with some of the results you get.

Good luck @CiferX

You do not always need a staff on a magic characters, just sayin’. In fact it is necessary in some case to not have a staff on both bars or at all.

validifyedneb18_ESO · May 2020

Sadly when viable builds come up (for PVE) they get crushed immediately by ZOS, who seem to be scared of changing the meta too much (while simultaniously changing it all the damn time by very small amounts).

Still salty about Drozakars claws set nerf, allowed you to do *almost* top level dps with some heavy tradeoffs, completely off meta bleed build. Then bam, goodbye set, 200 damage per bleed taken down to 130 damage per bleed, basically deleted the set from viability, in meta or PVP.

MagicPie · May 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

That’s what all the nerfs created but no one is stopping you from theory crafting.

Two months is not even dipping your toes in the water. No offense meant, Cx.

Build diversity is still certainly there, just not as prevalent.

During the PTS’ I work out all my new builds. Though diversity is lacking greatly to what it use to be but again it is from the over nerfing.

Though that is another discussion

Constructively speaking, let your own creativity allow you to experiment and have fun. It is a video game after all

Being that you’re new you are probably copying other peeps builds. There is nothing wrong with that but be certain to try different set ups for enjoyments sake. You’ll thank yourself later.

Theory Crafting is a really engaging part of this game. check out build editors and other tools to help you !!

Until they kill or completely ruin Cp, learn it. After you have, you will be amazed with some of the results you get.

Good luck @CiferX

You do not always need a staff on a magic characters, just sayin’. In fact it is necessary in some case to not have a staff on both bars or at all.

No offence taken

and as you said i did not do even 20% of the game yet. I did try to make some cool builds but my character got his head smashed every time lol, they sounded cool on paper, not so much in actual gameplay.

Ratzkifal · May 2020

Nyteshade wrote: »

Early on I felt the classes were more unique and had a different feel. Unfortunately I think the complaining about balance constantly lead to a homologizing of the classes.

It's the current reality for the most part.
Same sets work for all
Same weapon sets are best.
a few skills are the best.

I don't fully agree with the complains causing the homogenizing, since that would have happened eitherway with their combat overhaul/standardization, but your description of the current reality is spot on.

And that's exactly why Elfbane is so refreshing. It changes your playstyle a lot, makes underappreciated skills more valuable and interacts with unpopular sets in ways that can make them desireable too. It's a shame that ZOS is threatening to ruin that small niche of true uniqueness with constant nerfs. Let's hope they don't touch Domihaus and Grothdar the way they did with Zaan and bring back the vAS Inferno staff in its old every-2nd-cast glory.

StormeReigns · May 2020

It takes time, there are plenty of ways to build off meta and still keep pace, long as it is around your strength and weaknesses, but it does take time. As well, nothing wrong with chasing the meta if you have an understanding of it.

Took me about a year to figure out a build that plays to my style for the content I like, great for soloing, and can be very annoying in Cyrodiil (when it works).

Go with what feels right, Meta or not. If your looking to fully min/max there are plenty here that can provide great advise and point you to plenty of videos and guides how to the best bang for your buck (when everything works that is.)

MagicPie · May 2020

I am not chasing meta builds at all, but i just cannot play the way i want because it is not viable for more or less anything

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

CiferX wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

That’s what all the nerfs created but no one is stopping you from theory crafting.

Two months is not even dipping your toes in the water. No offense meant, Cx.

Build diversity is still certainly there, just not as prevalent.

During the PTS’ I work out all my new builds. Though diversity is lacking greatly to what it use to be but again it is from the over nerfing.

Though that is another discussion

Constructively speaking, let your own creativity allow you to experiment and have fun. It is a video game after all

Being that you’re new you are probably copying other peeps builds. There is nothing wrong with that but be certain to try different set ups for enjoyments sake. You’ll thank yourself later.

Theory Crafting is a really engaging part of this game. check out build editors and other tools to help you !!

Until they kill or completely ruin Cp, learn it. After you have, you will be amazed with some of the results you get.

Good luck @CiferX

You do not always need a staff on a magic characters, just sayin’. In fact it is necessary in some case to not have a staff on both bars or at all.

No offence taken and as you said i did not do even 20% of the game yet. I did try to make some cool builds but my character got his head smashed every time lol, they sounded cool on paper, not so much in actual gameplay.

Try it with the editors.

Also, what did you find was smashing your head in *ouch*

StormeReigns · May 2020

CiferX wrote: »

I am not chasing meta builds at all, but i just cannot play the way i want because it is not viable for more or less anything

The best bet, is post what you want/want to do along with the builds you have created / most partial to here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/players-helping-players

It is full of helpful players who might be able to help you figure out what you want to do, how to do it and provide insight on what you might be ultimately seeking.

Also using https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor is helpful (dunno if there is a better version someone knows about.)

MagicPie · May 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

CiferX wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

That’s what all the nerfs created but no one is stopping you from theory crafting.

Two months is not even dipping your toes in the water. No offense meant, Cx.

Build diversity is still certainly there, just not as prevalent.

During the PTS’ I work out all my new builds. Though diversity is lacking greatly to what it use to be but again it is from the over nerfing.

Though that is another discussion

Constructively speaking, let your own creativity allow you to experiment and have fun. It is a video game after all

Being that you’re new you are probably copying other peeps builds. There is nothing wrong with that but be certain to try different set ups for enjoyments sake. You’ll thank yourself later.

Theory Crafting is a really engaging part of this game. check out build editors and other tools to help you !!

Until they kill or completely ruin Cp, learn it. After you have, you will be amazed with some of the results you get.

Good luck @CiferX

You do not always need a staff on a magic characters, just sayin’. In fact it is necessary in some case to not have a staff on both bars or at all.

No offence taken and as you said i did not do even 20% of the game yet. I did try to make some cool builds but my character got his head smashed every time lol, they sounded cool on paper, not so much in actual gameplay.

Try it with the editors.

Also, what did you find was smashing your head in *ouch*

Well when i started i created a magicka DK with heavy armor and 2H sword, i pulled few mobs and i killed 1 and i was out of magicka lol so i managed to kill 2nd one with just melee but then other 2 killed me, and that was pretty much for every mob pack i did

bluebird · May 2020

Yep. The class diversity is really lacking in ESO.

Weapon Skills are available to all - some of these are really powerful and people would be an idiot not to take them. If class skills were better than Weapon Skills, that would trivialise weapon skills, but they can never be equal due to Passives and Set interactions. So here we are, enjoy running the same weps on most of your chars.
Guild skill lines are available to all - many weapon or guild skills provide powerful combat buffs, and people would be an idiot not to take them. So that's a couple of ability slots spent on self-buffs already.
Most class abilities are the same, just in a different colour - Single target instant spammable, ground AoE; is it a flying skull or a flying bird? Is it a circle of ice, a circle of lightning, or a circle of ash? Such exciting class choices!
And the few unique class abilities are constantly given to other classes or guild skill lines - DKs chain was unique for a long time, then Warden got teleport, and now Fighters Guild has a chain for everyone. NB's Grim Focus was unique with a light-attack activated special ability on command, now Stamsorc got the same thing but with spectral daggers instead of a bow. Wow.

It's a really ironic paradox of 'play as you want' free builds. You're only free to build for different scenarios (want a root, fear or some CC for some reason? You can find one in some skill line for sure on any class), but for every specific scenario (e.g. single target dps) everyone will use the same abilities because they're the best for that purpose. Meanwhile other games with more fixed toolkits may not be able to get all types of skill in any situation on any class (e.g. no instant cast AoE on a Balance Druid), but will have far more class diversity in all playstyles (Arcane Mage, Fire Mage, and Frost Mage play far more differently than all of ESO's magicka specs combined).

MagicPie · May 2020

bluebird wrote: »

Yep. The class diversity is really lacking in ESO.
Weapon Skills are available to all - some of these are really powerful and people would be an idiot not to take them. If class skills were better than Weapon Skills, that would trivialise weapon skills, but they can never be equal due to Passives and Set interactions. So here we are, enjoy running the same weps on most of your chars.

Guild skill lines are available to all - many weapon or guild skills provide powerful combat buffs, and people would be an idiot not to take them. So that's a couple of ability slots spent on self-buffs already.

Most class abilities are the same, just in a different colour - Single target instant spammable, ground AoE; is it a flying skull or a flying bird? Is it a circle of ice, a circle of lightning, or a circle of ash? Such exciting class choices!

And the few unique class abilities are constantly given to other classes or guild skill lines - DKs chain was unique for a long time, then Warden got teleport, and now Fighters Guild has a chain for everyone. NB's Grim Focus was unique with a light-attack activated special ability on command, now Stamsorc got the same thing but with spectral daggers instead of a bow. Wow.

It's a really ironic paradox of 'play as you want' free builds. You're only free to build for different scenarios (want a root, fear or some CC for some reason? You can find one in some skill line for sure on any class), but for every specific scenario (e.g. single target dps) everyone will use the same abilities because they're the best for that purpose. Meanwhile other games with more fixed toolkits may not be able to get all types of skill in any situation on any class (e.g. no instant cast AoE on a Balance Druid), but will have far more class diversity in all playstyles (Arcane Mage, Fire Mage, and Frost Mage play far more differently than all of ESO's magicka specs combined).

Well said, exactly what i had on my mind when i started this post.

daemonor · May 2020

Yes thats how it is for stamina, magica still has some flavour at least. It's very ironical since the game is supposed to be every rpers wet dream because you can make any class/race/build/playstyle combo you want and play ! When in reality this game has 3-4 meta sets for both pvp and pve and every class uses the same recoloured stuff. Take a game with fixed classes like world of warcraft "with no room for fantasy" for example which accomplished that and the class identity/uniqueness goal about two hundred million times better.

abelsgmx · May 2021

All the classes have the same combat mechanics

Hexi · May 2021

When there are no cooldowns and every class has access to almost everything, what would you expect?

Everstorm · May 2021

Year old necrothread.

PigofSteel · May 2021

Light Attack is everything. Just like i eat Ketchup with everything: fries, ice cream, steak, pancakes etc...

Juomuuri · May 2021

I'm not gonna even read any of this and just say;

The only role I looked a build for as a reference is tank, all my other characters have builds I made myself - most of them dps (got one of each class as mag and stam). I'm able to solo most world bosses with 2h sword + bow, as a stamblade. The build is really good in dungeons too, and so are all the variables I made myself for fun.

Just experiment and enjoy (unless you're a min-maxer who wants to be 9001% efficient, then I can't help).

hydrocynus · May 2021

But daggers are meta for Magicka DD? How much more diverse do you want to get?

SHooting Star (A magick ball of fire or ice from the sky) is meta for Stamina builds.

PLay as you like they say - hot dang i think its true.

Alamakot · May 2021

MagicPie wrote: »

And to my HUGE disappointment Magicka dps can only use a staff? Come on guys....why cant we have magic swords, wands, relics, anything?

There are possibilities to do so. You may create viable char based on Overwhelming Surge daggers or swords. Works nicely especially on mag templars or nightblades
https://www.hacktheminotaur.com/builds/eso-magicka-templar-solo-pve-one-bar-build-god-mode

ZOS_Volpe · May 2021

Greetings,

We have gone ahead and closed this thread down since it is rather old. Please keep in mind that sometimes it is better to create a new topic, instead of replying in one that was posted a while ago.

Thank you for your understanding.