Something has to be done about daily random grouping and people not willing to work with the team

Supreme_Atromancer · May 2021

Just had another fantastic pug experience...

Port in to a random normal on a completely new spec and the other dps and tank have already raced off. Meh, I'll keep up, its fine. "Tank" dies within a minute while the poor healer tries to keep up through the half-killed mobs they've left behind. You guessed it, vote to kick healer.

I don't think its the healer's fault, so let's not vote. The "tank"/dps duo immediately start slinging insults and raging, threatening to sit where they are so they can "enjoy the show".

We two took our time to complete the dungeon with no more dramas, and had a good laugh.

But yeah. This is what your pug community looks like. "Do it my way or I will chuck a tantrum, and begin to go out of my way to troll you and hurl abuse. My time is so important, but not important enough that I wouldn't just sit here and do nothing in order to make your gaming time sh** for you."

They really got stuck in about my low dps and lack of ability to play. I'm a *** too, apparently. We didn't have any problems clearing the dungeon, even though I had no idea what I was doing on the new loadout, so I guess I'm one of the higher-functioning kind, but yeah, totally valid way to relate to people you disagree with.

I've been around ESO for years, I know these sorts of morons exist. But what about newer players, less hardcore players. This is the face of pugs that they'll encounter.

I'm surprised that anyone can think this sort of behaviour is acceptable, or argue that its justified.

Grimm_Cortex · May 2021

Ok a tank dying in normal mode ... Not a tank bro !
If he's angry at the heal, mean is not know how to play this game.. Period !

Supreme_Atromancer · May 2021

Yeah, they clearly weren't a tank, just trying to get it done fast, I suppose. Which is fine, but they seemed to be going out of their way to be PITAs. Half killing trash then running off so that the healer, who was trying to catch up would have to wade through them all. You can't race off and then blame a healer in a normal dungeon for your dumb ass dying. Or if you do, laugh it off like the rest of us and plough on.

These are the sorts of ratbags people here are complaining about. Its not a good experience for anyone involved. The way they carried on makes me feel like they had emotional issues, and that just adds to the crappy feeling, tbh.

Its good to be presented with different points of view, but what I don't get is the people who jump in just to flex and [Snip] crap-post.

[Edited for profanity bypass]

FlopsyPrince · May 2021

Another needed fix is to remove the long cutscene delays on some questlines. Those are annoying in the middle of a dungeon.

And anyone who says it is 4 times longer to allow someone to do the quest is full of it. It takes some more time, but not much. The only real delay is for the long cutscenes I noted here.

blktauna · May 2021

I like the long cutscenes to have a moment to unload loot or get some resources back etc. It irks me when these entitled jerks just run forward and expect you to cater to them. You pull it, you tank it. And you'd best tank it, not leave it in a swirling mob for the rest of the party. Also don't expect to be rezzed.

Nagastani · May 2021

HowellQagan wrote: »

Edit: Changed title, it might not work this way but still there has to be something to get out players unwilling to cooperate with their random group from the pool.
Original title: "There needs to be a solo daily random dungeon option"

Seriously, if there were an option to start a daily random dungeon solo, or not full team, it would solve the problem of getting the kind of people who just want to rush through the dungeon for daily random reward (since they can solo it) into groups who queued for a specific dungeon because they want to complete it the normal way.

Everybody wins here. Rushers get weeded out of groups who don't want to rush, and rushers finally get to do it in their own pace.

I share your pain Howell however I'll raise you this...

What do you do about having someone join the group and then not only do they refuse to play the game but the rest of the group also refuses to vote kick them. Then they talk to you like a child for wanting to get rid of someone else who has clearly demonstrated childish behavior.

This is one reason I've pretty much stopped running 4 man for awhile. This and other things like 1 or 2 DPS running thru the dungeon and causing chaos between bosses while everyone else tries to keep up or figure out just what the heck is going on.

Nagastani · May 2021

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Just had another fantastic pug experience...

Port in to a random normal on a completely new spec and the other dps and tank have already raced off. Meh, I'll keep up, its fine. "Tank" dies within a minute while the poor healer tries to keep up through the half-killed mobs they've left behind. You guessed it, vote to kick healer.

I don't think its the healer's fault, so let's not vote. The "tank"/dps duo immediately start slinging insults and raging, threatening to sit where they are so they can "enjoy the show".

We two took our time to complete the dungeon with no more dramas, and had a good laugh.

But yeah. This is what your pug community looks like. "Do it my way or I will chuck a tantrum, and begin to go out of my way to troll you and hurl abuse. My time is so important, but not important enough that I wouldn't just sit here and do nothing in order to make your gaming time sh** for you."

They really got stuck in about my low dps and lack of ability to play. I'm a *** too, apparently. We didn't have any problems clearing the dungeon, even though I had no idea what I was doing on the new loadout, so I guess I'm one of the higher-functioning kind, but yeah, totally valid way to relate to people you disagree with.

I've been around ESO for years, I know these sorts of morons exist. But what about newer players, less hardcore players. This is the face of pugs that they'll encounter.

I'm surprised that anyone can think this sort of behaviour is acceptable, or argue that its justified.

Well it's perfectly acceptable to blame the healer first. I thought everyone knew that? That's just... kind of what we do.

However yeah those other guys are part of the reason why I too have stopped running 4 man groups.

Supreme_Atromancer · May 2021

Nagastani wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Just had another fantastic pug experience...

Port in to a random normal on a completely new spec and the other dps and tank have already raced off. Meh, I'll keep up, its fine. "Tank" dies within a minute while the poor healer tries to keep up through the half-killed mobs they've left behind. You guessed it, vote to kick healer.

I don't think its the healer's fault, so let's not vote. The "tank"/dps duo immediately start slinging insults and raging, threatening to sit where they are so they can "enjoy the show".

We two took our time to complete the dungeon with no more dramas, and had a good laugh.

But yeah. This is what your pug community looks like. "Do it my way or I will chuck a tantrum, and begin to go out of my way to troll you and hurl abuse. My time is so important, but not important enough that I wouldn't just sit here and do nothing in order to make your gaming time sh** for you."

They really got stuck in about my low dps and lack of ability to play. I'm a *** too, apparently. We didn't have any problems clearing the dungeon, even though I had no idea what I was doing on the new loadout, so I guess I'm one of the higher-functioning kind, but yeah, totally valid way to relate to people you disagree with.

I've been around ESO for years, I know these sorts of morons exist. But what about newer players, less hardcore players. This is the face of pugs that they'll encounter.

I'm surprised that anyone can think this sort of behaviour is acceptable, or argue that its justified.

Well it's perfectly acceptable to blame the healer first. I thought everyone knew that? That's just... kind of what we do.

However yeah those other guys are part of the reason why I too have stopped running 4 man groups.

Yep. The poor healer from last night wont be running dungeons again either, apparently! The cubbyhouse bullies have gated you all out.

ForeverJenn · May 2021

Uryel wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Give role change a 1 week cooldown per character

How is that a solution ? It's more of the problem. Change your build, and you're still stuck with a role that you no longer fit in... Sheesh.

Honestly, group content is a dumpster fire. Idiots rushing ahead and berating you for not following ? Check. Trying to do the quest and being told to "spam through it" (even when it's not possible because you have to wait for the NPC to do something) ? Check. Idiots rushing ahead and getting themselves killed, then blaming it on the healer ? Check... Even had an occurence where said rusher WAS the "healer", and they still blamed the healer. Had to be reminded that's the role they queued with.

I don't see it so much those days, but there were several times when random group just entered whatever random dungeon we were placed into, then ported to Fungal Grotto and compleined that we didn't follow them. Because it was faster, you know.

Basically, those days I just duo dungeons with my wife. That's the best solution I could find. Now, there are several possibilities that could be implemented to solve that problem :

- Vote to kick someone from the group. Problem : it works both ways, and rushers could ban someone just trying to do the quest.
- Have different modes to queue for : normal and fast. Problem : it only works if people queue honestly, and from the fake tank / fake healer plague, we know they don't.
- A dungeon banlist, which ensures you never, ever, end up in random with the people on it. Problem : it makes finding a group significantly longer as the list grows , and only prevents future annoyances.

There might be other options, but from those 3, my favourite is all of them at once. Queue for normal or fast, if someone doesn't play by the rules, kick them, and make sure you never see them again.

Lol yeah. A week is tooooo long. I suggested 15 mins to cut down on exploits, tho. In that amount of time you're prob ready for your next dungeon.

six2fall · May 2021

Yeah I love when I get a random that wants to rush thru pulling all the enemies that dont always follow so then we need to backtrack to find who we are in combat with just to open a door. Long run it ends up taking is longer than if we just cleared the dungeon probably. Hell if I have the time to waste I sit back & let them do everything, if they cant survive & kill everything themselves then they shouldnt be playing like they are solo.

ForeverJenn · May 2021

six2fall wrote: »

Yeah I love when I get a random that wants to rush thru pulling all the enemies that dont always follow so then we need to backtrack to find who we are in combat with just to open a door. Long run it ends up taking is longer than if we just cleared the dungeon probably. Hell if I have the time to waste I sit back & let them do everything, if they cant survive & kill everything themselves then they shouldnt be playing like they are solo.

I do that on my tanks and healers. Just stay back and open containers and light attack the leftover mobs.

MirandaSharp · May 2021

Hexi wrote: »

You can't solo every normal dungeon in the game though, and DLC dungeons have pretty beefed up HP pools even on normal so it would take a long time.

I think OP means the daily Randoms that people do for XP and crystals. You can't do those solo, but have to use the finder.

HowellQagan · May 2021

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Hexi wrote: »

You can't solo every normal dungeon in the game though, and DLC dungeons have pretty beefed up HP pools even on normal so it would take a long time.

I think OP means the daily Randoms that people do for XP and crystals. You can't do those solo, but have to use the finder.

@MirandaSharp Yes but that response was to the original title and post. It was one of the replies that made me change it, because it's a valid point. Random daily solo wouldn't work because it could put you into an unsoloable dungeon.

One of the other good suggestions in the thread is giving more crystals for veteran, then people would just go and be jerks there. But then newbies wouldn't have non-newbies joining them to help with first clears.

Maybe they could add a "demand" modifier that changed every 15 minutes or so. It would increase the reward if there is no tank or healer in queue to make it more enticing for people to join. But then again people would just fake queue more so this clearly wouldn't work either. Only the "any role" queue idea seems to be somewhat unabusable.

Zer0_CooL · May 2021

This is like asking "god" to create less idiots. It ain't gona happen...

madrab73 · May 2021

Had a fake healer run ahead on Tempest last week, through first door before other players picked up the quest. Vote to kick fixed it quickly

BXR_Lonestar · May 2021

Kind of on a similar subject, but it would be really nice if you could simply do your randoms under-manned when the group finder can't find people for you. The last few nights, I've been in que - 3 of us, waiting for the game to find 1 random person to run a random with. We're perfectly capable of 2 or 3 manning, most, if not all of the normal dungeons, and yet, we can't do a random to take advantage of the double xp.

And yes, I even asked in guild chats to see if someone else wanted to go with us and go not response. After a certain timeframe, it should just give you the option to go without a full team.

AlnilamE · May 2021

jle30303 wrote: »

Or the players pass a point of no return having left some monsters behind in a side chamber. (for instance jumping down to kill Varaine Pellingare without ever going into the side chamber with the Rat Whisperer, who is an entirely avoidable side boss - although with competent DDs he doesn't take too long since he's only tier 2, not tier 3.)

I remember before One Tamriel when there was a "normal" and a "vet" pledge and you had to kill all the bosses in normal to get the silver key, otherwise you got bronze.

In Darkshade Caverns, if you waited to kill the sphere boss *after* you killed the last boss, it wouldn't count and you would get the bronze key. And that boss is towards the exit when you are on the quest, so the "natural" progression would be to kill the last boss first, kill the quest NPC, then kill the sphere on your way to handing in the quest.

mattaeus01b16_ESO · May 2021

Players that don't communicate with the group and treats them like moving mannequins?

Yeah, just leave them.

Had a random tank for our vet DLC group Que. They Ran ahead, got annoyed with asking to pause a sec, turned none of the bosses/mobs away from the party, locked a DPS out of a fight... when the DPS complained, they stopped taunting....

We all left him with there with the boss and found a real tank.
Got speed run, no death, HM... and LOOTED chests on the way!!

Supreme_Atromancer · May 2021

mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »

Players that don't communicate with the group and treats them like moving mannequins?

Yeah, just leave them.

Had a random tank for our vet DLC group Que. They Ran ahead, got annoyed with asking to pause a sec, turned none of the bosses/mobs away from the party, locked a DPS out of a fight... when the DPS complained, they stopped taunting....

We all left him with there with the boss and found a real tank.
Got speed run, no death, HM... and LOOTED chests on the way!!

Agree, and that's the crux of the issue, right? Ya just don't need to behave like some edgy jackass. Who cares if your random normal takes 10 minutes or 13 minutes. We know you all think that you're amazing and too important to even acknowledge anyone else. Are you just that starved for the feeling of superiority that you need to carry on like a 2-bob watch in a video game? What's wrong with just being cool about it?

Eiregirl · May 2021

This happens in most if not all MMO’s that have tank, healer and damage dealer setups and a group finder to do group oriented content between mixed levels of not only character level but skill level.

The only thing I can think of to actually fix the problem would be to make every dungeon, normal or otherwise, absolutely require an actual tank to take damage from multiple mobs and from bosses that is to high for anyone other than a true tank to survive. An actual healer to heal the tanks missing health back up and spread some out to the damage dealers that with the new system have learned they need to let the tank go first or they will absolutely die.

I personally enjoy helping new players in dungeons and letting them do their quests and loot what they want. It is good to make sure that new players have a good experience with the game so they will keep playing and help keep the game alive. It is good to have them know that not every experienced player in the game is a jerk with no patience. I have done every dungeon many times and will still take my time if a single person in the group wants to take their time and enjoy the dungeon for their first time and some of those players have been high level players who just never bothered to do dungeons before.

As much as I try to only play with like minded people I still come across the occasional jerk which reminds me of a time me and a couple of friends queued for a dungeon needing a DD and we get one that blasted off like a bat out of hell with demons on their heels and ended up dead and started moaning and groaning and threatening to leave if we did not hurry up and one of my friends replied that a dead DD does no damage so they could either cool their heels or go ahead and leave because we don’t need a DD that does no damage.

AyaDark · May 2021

People who do not want to learn to play will be always desapointed.

I start from tank - not becouse i like it.

I START like tank - becouse it was needed - no tanks - you are velcome.

My wife start as healer the same reason.

When we play like hat we see how much BAD DDs are in game. Useless DD, so no tanks, but even less good DD, but with big ammount of DD itself.

So we make DD and play it.

Both of us have Tank/Healer/DD on mana and stamina. And we can play all of them.

But some people who play just the same time as we do only can do some 1 thing bad - they are bad DPS, and they do not like ALWAYS - some other people do not do some thing for them.

Thats why i think it is only such people problem.

DO SOMETHING to GET SOMETHING.

And there really are a lot of people - who run before the group - do not communicate, leave the group if they see low CP (that even play 3 time better than they do) and etc.

And you do nothing about it.

Or play better - or be like them and always be like:
"He did not do this, he did not to that - his sets are selfish, he must do this and give that, to train me better"

Be like that - or do yourself !!!

NO OTHER OPTION !

I do not know how to fix this problem other way:
You see it - you fix it.

No tanks - make it yourself.
No communication - find other people.

Other thingth will not work.

Thavie · May 2021

Do you also expect random people on the streets to behave the way you'd prefer them to? It would be nice, no doubt, but it's not how it works. Most people in this game have seen those dungeons hundreds of times already, they want it to be done as fast as possible. What I usually do in a random group, I just follow the rest. Some people want to do the quest? Alrighty, I'll wait for them. People are rushing through but I need the quest to be done? Well, next time then, I'm not going to slow them down. That way I've never experienced any toxicity in the group.

wheresbes · May 2021

I want no changes. I know I'm repeating myself here, but, in my experience, 99% of the time PUGs work alright, but of course, I can't expect others to have my same playstyle, I'm content as long as we finish the dungeon smoothly.

It's really down to our tolerance level, I'm that kind of person that doesn't give a c### about pretty much anything, so if I either take 2 hours or speedrun a vet, I couldn't care less. We are all different, this is something to keep in mind to avoid feeling frustrated every time.

Though, I agree that when a group works together, it's a much, much better experience!

oddbasket · May 2021

That's the randomness of group finder, but at least a rusher has some baseline for dps. Sometimes you are just held hostage by the situation. Maybe 1 out of 50 times, my tank will get DDs (and healer) with a combined DPS of <10k on vet. If I dare to question if they are set up right, or why they are playing on vet with those numbers, I'd be called toxic and to stfu and stop complaining.

If I don't want to spend twice or triple the time to complete a dungeon, my only options forward if I want to continue will be to kick the lowest DD and hope to get another that can pick up the slack, or if not ask them to kick me so I can queue for another group.

wheresbes · May 2021

oddbasket wrote: »

That's the randomness of group finder, but at least a rusher has some baseline for dps. Sometimes you are just held hostage by the situation. Maybe 1 out of 50 times, my tank will get DDs (and healer) with a combined DPS of <10k on vet. If I dare to question if they are set up right, or why they are playing on vet with those numbers, I'd be called toxic and to stfu and stop complaining.

If I don't want to spend twice or triple the time to complete a dungeon, my only options forward if I want to continue will be to kick the lowest DD and hope to get another that can pick up the slack, or if not ask them to kick me so I can queue for another group.

Yeah, it happens but in that case, I don't have a problem leaving and requeuing. When I started doing vet dungeons, it also happened that I left because I didn't feel I was pulling my weight. Once I've been kicked, a few times, I kicked. Still, all of this happens so rarely that it's not an issue for me. Heck, pretty much everything in life encompasses failures and successes, here is no different. In the same way, there are some great people around and some jer##, it would be utopian to think that in-game you'll ever come across only to good mannered people.

Septimus_Magna · May 2021

oddbasket wrote: »

That's the randomness of group finder, but at least a rusher has some baseline for dps. Sometimes you are just held hostage by the situation. Maybe 1 out of 50 times, my tank will get DDs (and healer) with a combined DPS of <10k on vet. If I dare to question if they are set up right, or why they are playing on vet with those numbers, I'd be called toxic and to stfu and stop complaining.

If I don't want to spend twice or triple the time to complete a dungeon, my only options forward if I want to continue will be to kick the lowest DD and hope to get another that can pick up the slack, or if not ask them to kick me so I can queue for another group.

If I see on my tank that my taunt+blockade is doing more than 10% group dps I just leave the group.

People wonder why there are so few tanks, its because supporting bad groups is a nightmare that takes way too long.

Goregrinder · May 2021

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

That's the randomness of group finder, but at least a rusher has some baseline for dps. Sometimes you are just held hostage by the situation. Maybe 1 out of 50 times, my tank will get DDs (and healer) with a combined DPS of <10k on vet. If I dare to question if they are set up right, or why they are playing on vet with those numbers, I'd be called toxic and to stfu and stop complaining.

If I don't want to spend twice or triple the time to complete a dungeon, my only options forward if I want to continue will be to kick the lowest DD and hope to get another that can pick up the slack, or if not ask them to kick me so I can queue for another group.

If I see on my tank that my taunt+blockade is doing more than 10% group dps I just leave the group.

People wonder why there are so few tanks, its because supporting bad groups is a nightmare that takes way too long.

People think Tanks like you give your time out like it's charity, that your time is really their time therefore you should sit through a dungeon that shouldn't take more than 10 minutes normally, but spend 45 mins on it because they want to do the quests or look at every pretty bush or rock. But no one owes anyone else their time, and groups that take that long aren't worth sticking around for to vets who just need to clear that dungeon out for dailies or gear farm, etc.