The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 22, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 22, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Vampires, Werewolves - more customization options and how we might get them
Ratzkifal
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Werebears -sharks and other wereoptions, Werewolf tanks, Vampire lords with wings, both reversed and unreversed vampire feeding options... We might just get it all!
While waiting for some Harrowstorms to spawn I was having a talk with a few fellow vampires and we came up with an idea with the potential to be amazing for customization of our favorite afflictions!
What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
The current CP2.0 includes no passives specific to either Werewolves or Vampires (aside from justice interaction passives in Craft) and maybe that's for the better too, because what if werewolves and vampires got their own tree with affliction specific CP? I do not want the CP limit or required amount of CP to be raised for that of course - it could just use the value of your lowest of the tree, so essentially 1/3 of your total CP.
These could include slottables like:
Even if none of the ideas listed here are to your liking, I am sure many of you can come up with your own passives and slottables. The concept definitely has potential to appeal to basically everyone by allowing more customization within a framework that makes balancing easier. Even in terms of accessibility it makes sense to use CP for this because then people have had time to grow their understanding about their affliction before being overwhelmed by customization options. Just like in CP2.0 there is room to expand it later on too!
What are your thoughts? Do you have suggestions for passives and slottables yourself?
While waiting for some Harrowstorms to spawn I was having a talk with a few fellow vampires and we came up with an idea with the potential to be amazing for customization of our favorite afflictions!
What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
The current CP2.0 includes no passives specific to either Werewolves or Vampires (aside from justice interaction passives in Craft) and maybe that's for the better too, because what if werewolves and vampires got their own tree with affliction specific CP? I do not want the CP limit or required amount of CP to be raised for that of course - it could just use the value of your lowest of the tree, so essentially 1/3 of your total CP.
These could include slottables like:
- Transform into a Werebear (or other werecreature with another slottable) instead of a Werewolf that has slightly altered stats - you can only have one alternate form slotted
- Piercing Howl (and morphs) deals reduced damage, but taunts the enemy and upon successfully taunting grants X armor
- Your vampirism stages naturally progress from stage 1 to 4 over time and feeding lowers your stage instead of increasing it
- When using Blood Scion transform instead into a Vampire Lord (with wings!) with infinite duration but increased penalties to offset the duration buff (for example 8% healing from damage done instead of 16%)
- [Insert your idea here]
- reduces health costs by a flat amount X per CP
- reduces the cooldown of your Blood Ritual and Bloodmoon passive by 12hours per stage of CP spent
- [Insert your idea here]
Even if none of the ideas listed here are to your liking, I am sure many of you can come up with your own passives and slottables. The concept definitely has potential to appeal to basically everyone by allowing more customization within a framework that makes balancing easier. Even in terms of accessibility it makes sense to use CP for this because then people have had time to grow their understanding about their affliction before being overwhelmed by customization options. Just like in CP2.0 there is room to expand it later on too!
What are your thoughts? Do you have suggestions for passives and slottables yourself?
This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
7
-
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do think this would be a cool idea, would let everyone choose what they like about vamp/wolf.
Two things I'd suggest: first one is werewolf behemoth. It already has an entire skill set that sits wasted in a single dungeon. Adding it here would fit right in without replacing anything.
Second: what about hunter/mortal cp? This can be located in the same tree but on a different branch. Just vampire and werewolf hunter related passives like doing more damage to them and such. This sounds like a nerf, but with this option you could increase vampire and werewolf power drastically since they would have counters. Put the fear back into both of them.
Really like this idea, I'm all for it.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.2 -
ThePianist✭✭✭It’s not lore friendly, but I like the idea of “the Beast” constellation.
We currently have the main 3, the warrior, the mage and the thief. And their respective charges like the lady, shadow, steed, ect...0 -
Hexi✭✭✭✭✭As much as I like the RP aspects, and most of mu chars are either or, Vampire and WW are not supposed to be a big part of the game. Since launch the phrase "This isn't Twilight Online" has been repeated.0
-
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThePianist wrote: »It’s not lore friendly, but I like the idea of “the Beast” constellation.
We currently have the main 3, the warrior, the mage and the thief. And their respective charges like the lady, shadow, steed, ect...
We do have the Serpent left still, so if it just has to fit into the theme you could make the picture in the back the Serpent and call it "Beast" or whatever. I know it's not very lore friendly but neither are the perk system in Skyrim or the champion point system here in ESO. At the end of the day these are just game mechanics that have a touch of the elder scrolls astronomy and for that the Serpent could actually work, even if it has nothing to do with vampirism or lycanthropy.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I do think this would be a cool idea, would let everyone choose what they like about vamp/wolf.
Two things I'd suggest: first one is werewolf behemoth. It already has an entire skill set that sits wasted in a single dungeon. Adding it here would fit right in without replacing anything.
Second: what about hunter/mortal cp? This can be located in the same tree but on a different branch. Just vampire and werewolf hunter related passives like doing more damage to them and such. This sounds like a nerf, but with this option you could increase vampire and werewolf power drastically since they would have counters. Put the fear back into both of them.
Really like this idea, I'm all for it.As much as I like the RP aspects, and most of mu chars are either or, Vampire and WW are not supposed to be a big part of the game. Since launch the phrase "This isn't Twilight Online" has been repeated.
I am aware that Werewolves and Vampires should not be mandatory picks and that this isn't Twilight Online. This system should not change that either. If it takes some mortal-exclusive boni to balance for that, then so be it. I just feel the community of werewolf and vampire fans is being held back by only having one skill line with 6 skills and 12 morphs, which just isn't enough space to include all the valid takes on these afflictions.
Past threads have already shown that opinions are a bit torn on a lot of the vampire issues and there are too many possible lycanthropy forms to be covered by just two morphs, so if we ever want to be able to address these issues and play those other forms we need something outside those skill lines to make it work. This could be that thing.
It's not Twilight Online, but getting to play vampires and werewolves is a beloved part of this franchise.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
Never thought about that... that is actually an amazing idea. A CP that affects only WW or Vampires. It would be amazing. Devs need to see this idea.
Also, this maybe expanded into CP that affects class skills. So we could have some kind of further class specialization etc.
0 -
Hexi✭✭✭✭✭I do think this would be a cool idea, would let everyone choose what they like about vamp/wolf.
Two things I'd suggest: first one is werewolf behemoth. It already has an entire skill set that sits wasted in a single dungeon. Adding it here would fit right in without replacing anything.
Second: what about hunter/mortal cp? This can be located in the same tree but on a different branch. Just vampire and werewolf hunter related passives like doing more damage to them and such. This sounds like a nerf, but with this option you could increase vampire and werewolf power drastically since they would have counters. Put the fear back into both of them.
Really like this idea, I'm all for it.As much as I like the RP aspects, and most of mu chars are either or, Vampire and WW are not supposed to be a big part of the game. Since launch the phrase "This isn't Twilight Online" has been repeated.
I am aware that Werewolves and Vampires should not be mandatory picks and that this isn't Twilight Online. This system should not change that either. If it takes some mortal-exclusive boni to balance for that, then so be it. I just feel the community of werewolf and vampire fans is being held back by only having one skill line with 6 skills and 12 morphs, which just isn't enough space to include all the valid takes on these afflictions.
Past threads have already shown that opinions are a bit torn on a lot of the vampire issues and there are too many possible lycanthropy forms to be covered by just two morphs, so if we ever want to be able to address these issues and play those other forms we need something outside those skill lines to make it work. This could be that thing.
It's not Twilight Online, but getting to play vampires and werewolves is a beloved part of this franchise.
Beloved part? Skyrim is not "the franchise".
In Oblivion it was a complete mess, and you couldn't even BE a Werewolf. In Morrowind being vampire just straight up prevented you from doing most of the content and Werewolf was specific to Blood Moon.
It should be a choice with HEAVY penalties. Being a Werewolf has 0 and Vampire is pointless for most playstyles because only 3 of the skills have any use and ability cost increase is such a massive drawback in any content where enemies don't keel over in 3 seconds.
There is no reason not to be a WW and Vampires are a meme because their drawbacks FAR outweigh the perks. I would NEVER be a Vampire on a character I actually play group content.Edited by Hexi on May 14, 2021 2:21PM0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
Never thought about that... that is actually an amazing idea. A CP that affects only WW or Vampires. It would be amazing. Devs need to see this idea.
Also, this maybe expanded into CP that affects class skills. So we could have some kind of further class specialization etc.
There is definitely some elegance to it. It also works seamlessly with everything else.
We already have ability altering sets, but those only make sense on weapons and maybe armor. Class/race/vampire/werewolf exclusive gear would feel a bit restrictive. But in CP everyone can just take whatever they like with no repercussions for not choosing something. So it would be the best place to add these alternate versions of non-weapon abilities, at least that I could think of. It also allows for targetted balancing so that buffing werewolf tanks in PvE doesn't make them too strong in PvP without making the game modes too different from each other (which the Devs don't seem to want).
The only problem would be that if we expand this idea too much then it will suffer from the same issues as the old CP system, which was apparently very taxing on the performance. Starting out, keeping it to vampires and werewolves would probably the best course of action simply because not everyone is a werewolf or vampire so the toll on the performance would be lower than if we immediately started to give every single class slottables or passives like this. But eventually this might be an option to expand the system to classes too! After performance the sky is the limit
This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
Never thought about that... that is actually an amazing idea. A CP that affects only WW or Vampires. It would be amazing. Devs need to see this idea.
Also, this maybe expanded into CP that affects class skills. So we could have some kind of further class specialization etc.
There is definitely some elegance to it. It also works seamlessly with everything else.
We already have ability altering sets, but those only make sense on weapons and maybe armor. Class/race/vampire/werewolf exclusive gear would feel a bit restrictive. But in CP everyone can just take whatever they like with no repercussions for not choosing something. So it would be the best place to add these alternate versions of non-weapon abilities, at least that I could think of. It also allows for targetted balancing so that buffing werewolf tanks in PvE doesn't make them too strong in PvP without making the game modes too different from each other (which the Devs don't seem to want).
The only problem would be that if we expand this idea too much then it will suffer from the same issues as the old CP system, which was apparently very taxing on the performance. Starting out, keeping it to vampires and werewolves would probably the best course of action simply because not everyone is a werewolf or vampire so the toll on the performance would be lower than if we immediately started to give every single class slottables or passives like this. But eventually this might be an option to expand the system to classes too! After performance the sky is the limit
Could also have a special minor constellation added for the vampire/werewolf stuff. Instead of a whole brand new one you could have it embedded into the current existing ones!PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I do think this would be a cool idea, would let everyone choose what they like about vamp/wolf.
Two things I'd suggest: first one is werewolf behemoth. It already has an entire skill set that sits wasted in a single dungeon. Adding it here would fit right in without replacing anything.
Second: what about hunter/mortal cp? This can be located in the same tree but on a different branch. Just vampire and werewolf hunter related passives like doing more damage to them and such. This sounds like a nerf, but with this option you could increase vampire and werewolf power drastically since they would have counters. Put the fear back into both of them.
Really like this idea, I'm all for it.As much as I like the RP aspects, and most of mu chars are either or, Vampire and WW are not supposed to be a big part of the game. Since launch the phrase "This isn't Twilight Online" has been repeated.
I am aware that Werewolves and Vampires should not be mandatory picks and that this isn't Twilight Online. This system should not change that either. If it takes some mortal-exclusive boni to balance for that, then so be it. I just feel the community of werewolf and vampire fans is being held back by only having one skill line with 6 skills and 12 morphs, which just isn't enough space to include all the valid takes on these afflictions.
Past threads have already shown that opinions are a bit torn on a lot of the vampire issues and there are too many possible lycanthropy forms to be covered by just two morphs, so if we ever want to be able to address these issues and play those other forms we need something outside those skill lines to make it work. This could be that thing.
It's not Twilight Online, but getting to play vampires and werewolves is a beloved part of this franchise.
Beloved part? Skyrim is not "the franchise".
In Oblivion it was a complete mess, and you couldn't even BE a Werewolf. In Morrowind being vampire just straight up prevented you from doing most of the content and Werewolf was specific to Blood Moon.
It should be a choice with HEAVY penalties. Being a Werewolf has 0 and Vampire is pointless for most playstyles because only 3 of the skills have any use and ability cost increase is such a massive drawback in any content where enemies don't keel over in 3 seconds.
There is no reason not to be a WW and Vampires are a meme because their drawbacks FAR outweigh the perks. I would NEVER be a Vampire on a character I actually play group content.
Not sure what point you are trying to make here.
In Daggerfall you couldn't be an Orc and yet playable Orcs are a thing now. New things get added all the time and some of these things are well received and stick around.
Drawbacks to being a Werecreature or Vampire can be worked into these slottables too, so there is no problem with that, while this also has the potential to make vampires viable again. I want vampirism to be a commitment but also a potential complement to your build rather than just a bunch of penalties. Ideally it should be something that you don't need unless you like it. This system could make that happen without ruining it for everybody else.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
Never thought about that... that is actually an amazing idea. A CP that affects only WW or Vampires. It would be amazing. Devs need to see this idea.
Also, this maybe expanded into CP that affects class skills. So we could have some kind of further class specialization etc.
There is definitely some elegance to it. It also works seamlessly with everything else.
We already have ability altering sets, but those only make sense on weapons and maybe armor. Class/race/vampire/werewolf exclusive gear would feel a bit restrictive. But in CP everyone can just take whatever they like with no repercussions for not choosing something. So it would be the best place to add these alternate versions of non-weapon abilities, at least that I could think of. It also allows for targetted balancing so that buffing werewolf tanks in PvE doesn't make them too strong in PvP without making the game modes too different from each other (which the Devs don't seem to want).
The only problem would be that if we expand this idea too much then it will suffer from the same issues as the old CP system, which was apparently very taxing on the performance. Starting out, keeping it to vampires and werewolves would probably the best course of action simply because not everyone is a werewolf or vampire so the toll on the performance would be lower than if we immediately started to give every single class slottables or passives like this. But eventually this might be an option to expand the system to classes too! After performance the sky is the limit
Could also have a special minor constellation added for the vampire/werewolf stuff. Instead of a whole brand new one you could have it embedded into the current existing ones!
Yes, but then it would share and compete with the already existing CP for slottable space and such. It would be bad if you can't slot treasure hunter anymore just because you like feeding working the other way around. Adding more slottable space would also just result in people taking more of the other passives if it results in higher numbers than picking the stuff that they actually want, that they feel would be fun.
I can see some of this being added to craft as a subconstellation, but the skill alterations would not fit in there thematically and would have to go into Warfare or Fitness. It would be tricky, but it's definitely a possibility to do it this way.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Tbh. "Twilight" is the worst thing that has ever happen to Vampires and Werewolves in any universe, across all genres and types of content. I mean they got wrecked by it...It's not Twilight Online
Imagine some franchise that comes out nowadays and it is so bad that it literally destroys some form of popular pop-culture / myth or something like that.
Vampires & Werewolves literality went from something awesome and cool to something that was consider as cringey and embarrassing, to put it lightly... within less than year...
For a long time Vamps and WWs were unfortunately associated with the thing that wrecked them in pop-culture. Before that we had comic books, movies, games with werewolves and vamps - and it was considered awesom, but then "Twilight" appeared and wrecked everything. This kind of destruction can only be compared to E.T. on Atari that caused a huge video game crisis...
My hopes are that a lot of time has passed, and Vamps & wws kinda recovered, as they are not automatically associated with something embarrassing & cringey... but since we have some kind of worries that "It's not Twilight Online", then I guess the wound are not fully healed yet, and the foul stench is still present here & there...
Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 14, 2021 3:35PM3 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Tbh. "Twilight" is the worst thing that has ever happen to Vampires and Werewolves in any universe, across all genres and types of content. I mean they got wrecked by it...It's not Twilight Online
Imagine some franchise that comes out nowadays and it is so bad that it literally destroys some form of popular pop-culture / myth or something like that.
Vampires & Werewolves literality went from something awesome and cool to something that was consider as cringey and embarrassing, to put it lightly... within less than year...
For a long time Vamps and WWs were unfortunately associated with the thing that wrecked them in pop-culture. Before that we had comic books, movies, games with werewolves and vamps - and it was considered awesom, but then "Twilight" appeared and wrecked everything. This kind of destruction can only be compared to E.T. on Atari that caused a huge video game crisis...
My hopes are that a lot of time has passed, and Vamps & wws kinda recovered, as they are not automatically associated with something embarrassing & cringey... but since we have some kind of worries that "It's not Twilight Online", then I guess the wound are not fully healed yet, and the foul stench is still present here & there...
Hilariously, even the actor of the main vampire hated it and openly bashed it, I dunno how he didn't get fired.
I agree though, vampires and werewolves are so much more than 'Twilight', even in the TES universe, werewolves and ESPECIALLY vampires play a huge role in the lore. Just look at the recent DLCs! Werewolves and vampires everywhere, I have mixed feelings about it, but it's obviously shown that in the TES universe, it's not just a gimmick, it's a sizeable part of the world.
As for the OP, I support these things 120%!Edited by coop500 on May 14, 2021 3:47PMWishing for Lilmothiit race still! Or maybe Lilmothiit companion?2 -
Hexi✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Tbh. "Twilight" is the worst thing that has ever happen to Vampires and Werewolves in any universe, across all genres and types of content. I mean they got wrecked by it...It's not Twilight Online
Imagine some franchise that comes out nowadays and it is so bad that it literally destroys some form of popular pop-culture / myth or something like that.
Vampires & Werewolves literality went from something awesome and cool to something that was consider as cringey and embarrassing, to put it lightly... within less than year...
For a long time Vamps and WWs were unfortunately associated with the thing that wrecked them in pop-culture. Before that we had comic books, movies, games with werewolves and vamps - and it was considered awesom, but then "Twilight" appeared and wrecked everything. This kind of destruction can only be compared to E.T. on Atari that caused a huge video game crisis...
My hopes are that a lot of time has passed, and Vamps & wws kinda recovered, as they are not automatically associated with something embarrassing & cringey... but since we have some kind of worries that "It's not Twilight Online", then I guess the wound are not fully healed yet, and the foul stench is still present here & there...
I fell in love with Vampires and the "edgy occult" with the OG VTMB so I know they can be amazing if done right. However, they can't make them strong enough that they feel mandatory (like they were at launch) They are supposed to be rare.
No build should be better by inserting a Vampire skill to it, and that seems to be their idea, that's why the skills are so incredibly meh and "RP like"
Edited by Hexi on May 14, 2021 8:31PM0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
Never thought about that... that is actually an amazing idea. A CP that affects only WW or Vampires. It would be amazing. Devs need to see this idea.
Also, this maybe expanded into CP that affects class skills. So we could have some kind of further class specialization etc.
There is definitely some elegance to it. It also works seamlessly with everything else.
We already have ability altering sets, but those only make sense on weapons and maybe armor. Class/race/vampire/werewolf exclusive gear would feel a bit restrictive. But in CP everyone can just take whatever they like with no repercussions for not choosing something. So it would be the best place to add these alternate versions of non-weapon abilities, at least that I could think of. It also allows for targetted balancing so that buffing werewolf tanks in PvE doesn't make them too strong in PvP without making the game modes too different from each other (which the Devs don't seem to want).
The only problem would be that if we expand this idea too much then it will suffer from the same issues as the old CP system, which was apparently very taxing on the performance. Starting out, keeping it to vampires and werewolves would probably the best course of action simply because not everyone is a werewolf or vampire so the toll on the performance would be lower than if we immediately started to give every single class slottables or passives like this. But eventually this might be an option to expand the system to classes too! After performance the sky is the limit
Could also have a special minor constellation added for the vampire/werewolf stuff. Instead of a whole brand new one you could have it embedded into the current existing ones!
Yes, but then it would share and compete with the already existing CP for slottable space and such. It would be bad if you can't slot treasure hunter anymore just because you like feeding working the other way around. Adding more slottable space would also just result in people taking more of the other passives if it results in higher numbers than picking the stuff that they actually want, that they feel would be fun.
I can see some of this being added to craft as a subconstellation, but the skill alterations would not fit in there thematically and would have to go into Warfare or Fitness. It would be tricky, but it's definitely a possibility to do it this way.
If you made it a separate branch all together we'd have the same level cap, but then we'd have LESS stars to put in everything else, and it wouldn't benefit the mortals at all. Making it a minor constellation in a major one is a better idea all round. Could split it into Craft, Warfare, and Endurance monster minor constellations based upon the different supernatural aspects of each and it'd work fine.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
Never thought about that... that is actually an amazing idea. A CP that affects only WW or Vampires. It would be amazing. Devs need to see this idea.
Also, this maybe expanded into CP that affects class skills. So we could have some kind of further class specialization etc.
There is definitely some elegance to it. It also works seamlessly with everything else.
We already have ability altering sets, but those only make sense on weapons and maybe armor. Class/race/vampire/werewolf exclusive gear would feel a bit restrictive. But in CP everyone can just take whatever they like with no repercussions for not choosing something. So it would be the best place to add these alternate versions of non-weapon abilities, at least that I could think of. It also allows for targetted balancing so that buffing werewolf tanks in PvE doesn't make them too strong in PvP without making the game modes too different from each other (which the Devs don't seem to want).
The only problem would be that if we expand this idea too much then it will suffer from the same issues as the old CP system, which was apparently very taxing on the performance. Starting out, keeping it to vampires and werewolves would probably the best course of action simply because not everyone is a werewolf or vampire so the toll on the performance would be lower than if we immediately started to give every single class slottables or passives like this. But eventually this might be an option to expand the system to classes too! After performance the sky is the limit
Could also have a special minor constellation added for the vampire/werewolf stuff. Instead of a whole brand new one you could have it embedded into the current existing ones!
Yes, but then it would share and compete with the already existing CP for slottable space and such. It would be bad if you can't slot treasure hunter anymore just because you like feeding working the other way around. Adding more slottable space would also just result in people taking more of the other passives if it results in higher numbers than picking the stuff that they actually want, that they feel would be fun.
I can see some of this being added to craft as a subconstellation, but the skill alterations would not fit in there thematically and would have to go into Warfare or Fitness. It would be tricky, but it's definitely a possibility to do it this way.
If you made it a separate branch all together we'd have the same level cap, but then we'd have LESS stars to put in everything else, and it wouldn't benefit the mortals at all. Making it a minor constellation in a major one is a better idea all round. Could split it into Craft, Warfare, and Endurance monster minor constellations based upon the different supernatural aspects of each and it'd work fine.
No that's not how it would work. I made it pretty clear in the original post how I think it should be. For every 3 CP that you have, you also gain one in the 4th constellation so that you have the same amount to spend everywhere. But that does not mean you need to grind more nor does it mean you are taking away from the budget of the others and it doesn't change the displayed value of your max CP either.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Tbh. "Twilight" is the worst thing that has ever happen to Vampires and Werewolves in any universe, across all genres and types of content. I mean they got wrecked by it...It's not Twilight Online
Imagine some franchise that comes out nowadays and it is so bad that it literally destroys some form of popular pop-culture / myth or something like that.
Vampires & Werewolves literality went from something awesome and cool to something that was consider as cringey and embarrassing, to put it lightly... within less than year...
For a long time Vamps and WWs were unfortunately associated with the thing that wrecked them in pop-culture. Before that we had comic books, movies, games with werewolves and vamps - and it was considered awesom, but then "Twilight" appeared and wrecked everything. This kind of destruction can only be compared to E.T. on Atari that caused a huge video game crisis...
My hopes are that a lot of time has passed, and Vamps & wws kinda recovered, as they are not automatically associated with something embarrassing & cringey... but since we have some kind of worries that "It's not Twilight Online", then I guess the wound are not fully healed yet, and the foul stench is still present here & there...
I fell in love with Vampires and the "edgy occult" with the OG VTMB so I know they can be amazing if done right. However, they can't make them strong enough that they feel mandatory (like they were at launch) They are supposed to be rare.
No build should be better by inserting a Vampire skill to it, and that seems to be their idea, that's why the skills are so incredibly meh and "RP like"
I highly doubt that was ZOS' intention. Nobody intentionally designs something to be bad just so it's "rare". ZOS wanted to reinforce that vampire should be a commitment and I agree. But that doesn't mean they have to be "meh" or weak. It just means that you are never going to be a vampire unless that was your intention from the start and if you do not make use of it you are better off getting it cured. But for the people who are willing to commit to being a vampire it sucks (hehe) that they are overall so lackluster and "meh".
Why does being a vampire make me worse at being a Necromancer? It makes no sense. ZOS should have found different penalties for being a vampire than making your class skills more costly, especially because the vampire's kit can't stand on its own like the werewolf's can.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
Never thought about that... that is actually an amazing idea. A CP that affects only WW or Vampires. It would be amazing. Devs need to see this idea.
Also, this maybe expanded into CP that affects class skills. So we could have some kind of further class specialization etc.
There is definitely some elegance to it. It also works seamlessly with everything else.
We already have ability altering sets, but those only make sense on weapons and maybe armor. Class/race/vampire/werewolf exclusive gear would feel a bit restrictive. But in CP everyone can just take whatever they like with no repercussions for not choosing something. So it would be the best place to add these alternate versions of non-weapon abilities, at least that I could think of. It also allows for targetted balancing so that buffing werewolf tanks in PvE doesn't make them too strong in PvP without making the game modes too different from each other (which the Devs don't seem to want).
The only problem would be that if we expand this idea too much then it will suffer from the same issues as the old CP system, which was apparently very taxing on the performance. Starting out, keeping it to vampires and werewolves would probably the best course of action simply because not everyone is a werewolf or vampire so the toll on the performance would be lower than if we immediately started to give every single class slottables or passives like this. But eventually this might be an option to expand the system to classes too! After performance the sky is the limit
Could also have a special minor constellation added for the vampire/werewolf stuff. Instead of a whole brand new one you could have it embedded into the current existing ones!
Yes, but then it would share and compete with the already existing CP for slottable space and such. It would be bad if you can't slot treasure hunter anymore just because you like feeding working the other way around. Adding more slottable space would also just result in people taking more of the other passives if it results in higher numbers than picking the stuff that they actually want, that they feel would be fun.
I can see some of this being added to craft as a subconstellation, but the skill alterations would not fit in there thematically and would have to go into Warfare or Fitness. It would be tricky, but it's definitely a possibility to do it this way.
If you made it a separate branch all together we'd have the same level cap, but then we'd have LESS stars to put in everything else, and it wouldn't benefit the mortals at all. Making it a minor constellation in a major one is a better idea all round. Could split it into Craft, Warfare, and Endurance monster minor constellations based upon the different supernatural aspects of each and it'd work fine.
No that's not how it would work. I made it pretty clear in the original post how I think it should be. For every 3 CP that you have, you also gain one in the 4th constellation so that you have the same amount to spend everywhere. But that does not mean you need to grind more nor does it mean you are taking away from the budget of the others and it doesn't change the displayed value of your max CP either.
If I understood this correctly, that would mean that people with WW / Vamp would have 4th CP Consolation and would have "technically" more CP and more CP passives. This could be too strong and would kinda make WW / Vamp a "must have" - even if you would not use it. Even if those passive would be inactive, it would make people feel that they have less overall power if they are not WW / Vamp.
I think It would be far better to make a sub-constellation slotable active passives, for Blue & Red CP. Red CP would be for WW and would define your lycanthropy form, while Blue CP could provide some other bonuses for Vamps.
I can see it as something optional, that would have a kiss-curse effect - so it will be still beneficial to use normal Black/White WW. As for the options I see Werebear (more HP), Werecroc (more Armour) and WW Behemoth (idk what it could add, more dmg or something ?)
Either way, each "form" would have some kinda of drawback (like more dmg taken from poison or more expensive skills, slower moment speed etc.
The only problem I can see is it would require some kind of coding to prevent slotting 2 different CP that alters WW form.
In general your proposal is nice, but I have some pain-points:
- No "drawback" - you would have only benefits from it, and therefore it would be lacking "choice" and "specialization" - something that CP is supposed to be.
- An impression that non-ww / non-vamp is weaker than WW / Vamp player (with same level) as those players will get effective more CP & CP passives.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 14, 2021 9:39PM0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »What if there was a 4th CP constellation exclusive to vampires and werewolves?
Never thought about that... that is actually an amazing idea. A CP that affects only WW or Vampires. It would be amazing. Devs need to see this idea.
Also, this maybe expanded into CP that affects class skills. So we could have some kind of further class specialization etc.
There is definitely some elegance to it. It also works seamlessly with everything else.
We already have ability altering sets, but those only make sense on weapons and maybe armor. Class/race/vampire/werewolf exclusive gear would feel a bit restrictive. But in CP everyone can just take whatever they like with no repercussions for not choosing something. So it would be the best place to add these alternate versions of non-weapon abilities, at least that I could think of. It also allows for targetted balancing so that buffing werewolf tanks in PvE doesn't make them too strong in PvP without making the game modes too different from each other (which the Devs don't seem to want).
The only problem would be that if we expand this idea too much then it will suffer from the same issues as the old CP system, which was apparently very taxing on the performance. Starting out, keeping it to vampires and werewolves would probably the best course of action simply because not everyone is a werewolf or vampire so the toll on the performance would be lower than if we immediately started to give every single class slottables or passives like this. But eventually this might be an option to expand the system to classes too! After performance the sky is the limit
Could also have a special minor constellation added for the vampire/werewolf stuff. Instead of a whole brand new one you could have it embedded into the current existing ones!
Yes, but then it would share and compete with the already existing CP for slottable space and such. It would be bad if you can't slot treasure hunter anymore just because you like feeding working the other way around. Adding more slottable space would also just result in people taking more of the other passives if it results in higher numbers than picking the stuff that they actually want, that they feel would be fun.
I can see some of this being added to craft as a subconstellation, but the skill alterations would not fit in there thematically and would have to go into Warfare or Fitness. It would be tricky, but it's definitely a possibility to do it this way.
If you made it a separate branch all together we'd have the same level cap, but then we'd have LESS stars to put in everything else, and it wouldn't benefit the mortals at all. Making it a minor constellation in a major one is a better idea all round. Could split it into Craft, Warfare, and Endurance monster minor constellations based upon the different supernatural aspects of each and it'd work fine.
No that's not how it would work. I made it pretty clear in the original post how I think it should be. For every 3 CP that you have, you also gain one in the 4th constellation so that you have the same amount to spend everywhere. But that does not mean you need to grind more nor does it mean you are taking away from the budget of the others and it doesn't change the displayed value of your max CP either.
If I understood this correctly, that would mean that people with WW / Vamp would have 4th CP Consolation and would have "technically" more CP and more CP passives. This could be too strong and would kinda make WW / Vamp a "must have" - even if you would not use it. Even if those passive would be inactive, it would make people feel that they have less overall power if they are not WW / Vamp.
I think It would be far better to make a sub-constellation slotable active passives, for Blue & Red CP. Red CP would be for WW and would define your lycanthropy form, while Blue CP could provide some other bonuses for Vamps.
I can see it as something optional, that would have a kiss-curse effect - so it will be still beneficial to use normal Black/White WW. As for the options I see Werebear (more HP), Werecroc (more Armour) and WW Behemoth (idk what it could add, more dmg or something ?)
Either way, each "form" would have some kinda of drawback (like more dmg taken from poison or more expensive skills, slower moment speed etc.
The only problem I can see is it would require some kind of coding to prevent slotting 2 different CP that alters WW form.
In general your proposal is nice, but I have some pain-points:
- No "drawback" - you would have only benefits from it, and therefore it would be lacking "choice" and "specialization" - something that CP is supposed to be.
- An impression that non-ww / non-vamp is weaker than WW / Vamp player (with same level) as those players will get effective more CP & CP passives.
How? I really don't get it. If the effects are all tailored to vampires and werewolves and only affect them, then you don't need to get it if you aren't one. Kiss-curse effects would be included of course because you can't just give people the option to stay in their vampire lord form forever without some sort of drawback to balance that out. That was always the intention as well as giving the option to either increase or lower both risk and reward if you so wish.
Nothing about that would make being a vampire or werewolf mandatory. If it's just about having access to the thing you aren't even going to use/benefit from just for the sake of having them... well that's the same deal as with the skill lines right now, is it not? You only have access to them if you actually are one.
If we include passives and slottables for mortals, then yes, you would automatically get access to the 4th constellation. It wouldn't make sense any other way. But even if that wasn't the case, as long as the slottables and passives are only affliction related or are alterations to functionality there is no net power gain - just a change of playstyle and feel.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
Hexi✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Tbh. "Twilight" is the worst thing that has ever happen to Vampires and Werewolves in any universe, across all genres and types of content. I mean they got wrecked by it...It's not Twilight Online
Imagine some franchise that comes out nowadays and it is so bad that it literally destroys some form of popular pop-culture / myth or something like that.
Vampires & Werewolves literality went from something awesome and cool to something that was consider as cringey and embarrassing, to put it lightly... within less than year...
For a long time Vamps and WWs were unfortunately associated with the thing that wrecked them in pop-culture. Before that we had comic books, movies, games with werewolves and vamps - and it was considered awesom, but then "Twilight" appeared and wrecked everything. This kind of destruction can only be compared to E.T. on Atari that caused a huge video game crisis...
My hopes are that a lot of time has passed, and Vamps & wws kinda recovered, as they are not automatically associated with something embarrassing & cringey... but since we have some kind of worries that "It's not Twilight Online", then I guess the wound are not fully healed yet, and the foul stench is still present here & there...
I fell in love with Vampires and the "edgy occult" with the OG VTMB so I know they can be amazing if done right. However, they can't make them strong enough that they feel mandatory (like they were at launch) They are supposed to be rare.
No build should be better by inserting a Vampire skill to it, and that seems to be their idea, that's why the skills are so incredibly meh and "RP like"
I highly doubt that was ZOS' intention. Nobody intentionally designs something to be bad just so it's "rare". ZOS wanted to reinforce that vampire should be a commitment and I agree. But that doesn't mean they have to be "meh" or weak. It just means that you are never going to be a vampire unless that was your intention from the start and if you do not make use of it you are better off getting it cured. But for the people who are willing to commit to being a vampire it sucks (hehe) that they are overall so lackluster and "meh".
Why does being a vampire make me worse at being a Necromancer? It makes no sense. ZOS should have found different penalties for being a vampire than making your class skills more costly, especially because the vampire's kit can't stand on its own like the werewolf's can.
All they would need to do is make it so blood frenzy only starts consuming health if you don't feed every 1min or something, and you can feed on mesmerized enemies.
That would literally sort all of it's problems while not making it OP in PvP while you could do more damage in PvE as long you have trash to drain.Edited by Hexi on May 15, 2021 12:23AM0