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Apparently, eso isn’t actually an mmo

Eevee_42
Eevee_42
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There was a new article I read today (I’ll link it down below) that stated eso isn’t actually an mmo, but an online rpg? I can’t even say I’m surprised by this given the direction the game has been going over the years. If you’re looking for an experience that’s more hardcore than light attacking the main villain of a year long story to death, you should probably look elsewhere.

So why isn’t eso an mmo? Because it’s all fun, no grinding, and none of that lame hardcore stuff...hilarious.

They make statements about eso not being a grind like other mmo’s (just the fun parts)? I find this to be beyond laughable. Just to name a few horrible grinds in this game, let’s start with the new CP system. It is actually much more punishing to people who don’t want to grind in Skyreach for 15 hours a day compared to the old system. Then there’s lore books, undaunted, psijic, skyshards, antiquities on top of the gear grind. Eso has all of the typical mmo grinds, but it’s wrapped up in voice acted quests and flashy trailers. It is misleading to state otherwise. I want to clarify that I myself have no issue with grinds and I think they’re a healthy part of games to a reasonable extent. However, this is just straight up lying to our faces.

When you break everything down and look at what game you’re paying $15 a month for to play, what actually is it, if not an mmo? Unimaginative stories, repetitive yearly content (how many different versions of dark anchors does this game need)? Raiding and pvp are extremely lackluster if you want to play them on any serious level. You get one raid a year, and there’s all of your content completed on the first day it comes out. The lack of pvp love really speaks for itself though. Pvp players are neglected on such a scale that so many of them have left the game at this point. It’s plagued with horrible performance issues, their ideas and concerns seem to fall on deaf ears, and the last actual pvp content was released 4 years ago.

I actually used to love eso, the combat was unique and had a lot of potential. The elder scrolls world and lore is amazing. But to see it turn into this made me stop playing a long time ago. Reading this article today reinforced how I already felt. That if you want anything more out of the game other than RP and questing, then go play something else; you’re not welcome here.

Here is the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2021/05/13/elder-scrolls-blackwood-zenimax/
Edited by Eevee_42 on May 14, 2021 6:42AM
  • six2fall
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    Yeah eso is all about horrible grinding.
  • zaria
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    You did not provide an link :)

    And that define an MMO as most see it is an open shared world is an huge part of the game.
    No grinding is needed but you need an open world, games who is only instances are not an MMO even if they have grind classes and the other stuff.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • colossalvoids
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    It's a marketing speech they give from time to time, have no relation to the actual game (to the point)
  • WiseSky
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    No ESO is not a MMO

    ESO is LOVE
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  • Ryuvain
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    Well i see your points, and they arent wrong. But i will say this: eso is the best mmo out there for me. Trust me, I've tried a lot of them and by far this one is better.

    I came from an mmo where gear IS your level, gear/level only provides better stats and no gear effects, you have a rng chance of actually getting better gear/leveling, roles were limited by your class (no stealthy assassin tanks), AND limited leveling. You can only roll the rng to level on a dungeon once per day, trials once a week.

    Mythics are REQUIRED, you have to level them, and it's also gated. If you don't want to be kicked, be prepared to pay a lot of real money for them just to be relevant. Grind can take years the free way.

    You also only leveled/get better gear by playing only the most recent dlc, no other content. I consider myself lucky to end up here instead. This game may disappoint me at times, but I'm never looking back. I hate that game with a passion now.

    Also Khajiit, checkmate.
    Edited by Ryuvain on May 14, 2021 6:54AM
    That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
    Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.
  • Brrrofski
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    For me, it doesn't feel like an MMO.

    The reason is because what the Ms stand for.

    Massive Multiplayer.

    The only time this vaguely seems the case is in Cyrodiil.

    But the rest of the game, not really. Outside of 12 man trials, when do people really group up? There's nothing overland which needs a lot of players to come together? World's bosses are easy, things like dragons and harrowstroms can be done solo or with two players, if you want to do dungeons you just do group finder and don't have to even speak to anyone etc.

    You can play most of this game without making alliances or even speaking to people....
  • Eevee_42
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    Ryuvain wrote: »
    Well i see your points, and they arent wrong. But i will say this: eso is the best mmo out there for me. Trust me, I've tried a lot of them and by far this one is better.

    I came from an mmo where gear IS your level, gear/level only provides better stats and no gear effects, you have a rng chance of actually getting better gear/leveling, roles were limited by your class (no stealthy assassin tanks), AND limited leveling. You can only roll the rng to level on a dungeon once per day, trials once a week.

    Mythics are REQUIRED, you have to level them, and it's also gated. If you don't want to be kicked, be prepared to pay a lot of real money for them just to be relevant. Grind can take years the free way.

    You also only leveled/get better gear by playing only the most recent dlc, no other content. I consider myself lucky to end up here instead. This game may disappoint me at times, but I'm never looking back. I hate that game with a passion now.

    Also Khajiit, checkmate.
    I agree with you, tab target games aren’t for me and I enjoy the eso world but it’s just unplayable for me at this point. I actually stopped playing mmo’s altogether because none of them strike my interest anymore. I just wish “hardcore” players got a little more love as well as performance (it’s been in an awful state for years now). I loved the game pre-Elsweyr, but it’s gotten worse ever since then in my opinion.
  • Ryuvain
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    Eevee_42 wrote: »
    Ryuvain wrote: »
    Well i see your points, and they arent wrong. But i will say this: eso is the best mmo out there for me. Trust me, I've tried a lot of them and by far this one is better.

    I came from an mmo where gear IS your level, gear/level only provides better stats and no gear effects, you have a rng chance of actually getting better gear/leveling, roles were limited by your class (no stealthy assassin tanks), AND limited leveling. You can only roll the rng to level on a dungeon once per day, trials once a week.

    Mythics are REQUIRED, you have to level them, and it's also gated. If you don't want to be kicked, be prepared to pay a lot of real money for them just to be relevant. Grind can take years the free way.

    You also only leveled/get better gear by playing only the most recent dlc, no other content. I consider myself lucky to end up here instead. This game may disappoint me at times, but I'm never looking back. I hate that game with a passion now.

    Also Khajiit, checkmate.
    I agree with you, tab target games aren’t for me and I enjoy the eso world but it’s just unplayable for me at this point. I actually stopped playing mmo’s altogether because none of them strike my interest anymore. I just wish “hardcore” players got a little more love as well as performance (it’s been in an awful state for years now). I loved the game pre-Elsweyr, but it’s gotten worse ever since then in my opinion.

    And that's fine. This game isn't the only game I play. Sometimes I don't play this for weeks, sometimes I play modded skyrim, etc.

    If it's getting to you, try taking a break and try something else. When I'm mad I just start up a good old rts game.

    Rip CnC, they could've had such a bright future. For the brotherhood.
    Edited by Ryuvain on May 14, 2021 7:07AM
    That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
    Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.
  • Solid_Metal
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    ESO is MMO as much as other modern MMO

    most if not all modern MMO act like how ESO is, most of them are instance, i dunno how much people ESO handle each instance, but definitely for me is enough to considered as MMO

    i've tried LOT of MMOS, i play MMO since i was in junior highschool, and now currently i'm working, ive tried moden MMO like GW2, FF14 etc, infact i was player FF14 in 2015 before try out ESO Tamriel Unlimited

    after play ESO, i can't go back to FF14 with it slow and tab targeting combat, ESO for me definitely one of the best MMO out there, despite its problem and problematic developer/publisher with its mountains of micro transaction

    is it MMO ? yes, hardcore MMO ? no, people who said "ESO not mmo because theres not enough grind etc etc", i considered them as Boomer MMO elitist

    but lets touch the subject of pvp, what content do you think they can add to pvp?, pvp basically just people killing other people?, whats more into it ?, you want another mode for pvp ?, like battle royale ?, or probably DOTA type mode ?
    "i will walk through the fog, as i welcome death"
  • Ratinira
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    Eevee_42 wrote: »
    They make statements about eso not being a grind like other mmo’s (just the fun parts)? I find this to be beyond laughable. Just to name a few horrible grinds in this game, let’s start with the new CP system. It is actually much more punishing to people who don’t want to grind in Skyreach for 15 hours a day compared to the old system. Then there’s lore books, undaunted, psijic, skyshards, antiquities on top of the gear grind. Eso has all of the typical mmo grinds, but it’s wrapped up in voice acted quests and flashy trailers.

    Looks like you haven't played mmos where you cannot do anything without grinding mobs and grinding mobs is almost all you can do in that game... In some games you cannot even take new quest until you gring enough xp on mobs to take it.

    I have never run Skyreach even for 15 min, I have never run it at all.
    It took me nearly a year to get cp 850 and never during that year I felt "punished". Because I never cared about cp number.

    Maybe it is you punishing yourself if not being beast of the best of the best as soon as you start playing not the game?
  • Lugaldu
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    There is always the question of what you make of it. If someone enjoys grind, then they have plenty of opportunities in Eso, if not, then you just ignore it. There areso many different options in the game, albeit focus seems to have shifted away from PvP. But that´s just a development and today's concept is certainly an adaptation over the years to the priorities of the players - where there is the greatest demand - something can be best sold - investment is made.
  • spartaxoxo
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    ESO is FAR FAR less grindy than the other MMOs he was making that comment about, it's not even remotely close. It could take someone a year of grinding every day for a couple of hours to get into pvp and even then they'd have beginning version of the proper gear, since it wouldn't have all it's proper stats or refinements.

    And the grind in this game has been significantly reduced over the years as well. The stickerbook, transmute crystals, buffs to older sets, Antiquities, the undaunted key rework...these have all helped reduce grind.

    There is still some grind. This is an MMO (and he makes it clear that it is one) but it doesn't have the obstacles to playing of the older mmos.
  • RupzSkooma
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    It’s a game and who care what other calls it. You know what it is and call it whatever you want to.I played tones of MMORPG and disliked all of those but I enjoy playing ESO from time to time.
    ESO is a solo friendly MMORPG IMO and expecting it to be something else might be disappointing.Calling it not a part of a dying/stagnant genre is doing a good service for the game tho.

    On the flip side I heard people calling ESO an immersive game and that surprise me but I don’t care enough to think about it much.People might have very generous or different definition of an immersive game just like they have different opinion of what an MMORPG is.
    Elder Kings II is a Role Playing Elder Scrolls mod for Crusader Kings III.
  • Starlight_Whisper
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    WiseSky wrote: »
    No ESO is not a MMO

    ESO is LOVE

    I accept this answer
  • StormWylf
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    @Eevee_42 I reluctantly had to check, "Agree". I used to love this game, but as you correctly stated:
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    let’s start with the new CP system. It is actually much more punishing to people who don’t want to grind in Skyreach for 15 hours a day compared to the old system. Then there’s lore books, undaunted, psijic, skyshards, antiquities on top of the gear grind."

    My only slight issue with your post was perhaps the idea and/or assumption that a reporter would be truthful. I submit that sadly today you have a better chance of finding a Unicorn then you do finding an honest reporter.
    Edited by StormWylf on May 14, 2021 7:51AM
  • Supertonicbaker
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    To me, ESO is an experience. It's subtle and mild. Mild, like that first splash of sun on an April morning. Sometimes a nice few hours of ESO is just what a person needs to get them through the day. That smooth LA weaving and mild grind is what makes ESO very special. Special, like an Arizona sunrise or a juniper wet with dew. A light rain in the middle of a dusty afternoon or a hug from your dear old Naryu Virien. *sips coffee*
  • Iccotak
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    I'd love the RPG story more if the combat for every encounter was not so bland and easy all the time. Mobs I can understand but the "Bigger NPCs" should be more of a challenge that actually use more mechanics and do more damage.

    Also Story Bosses are not worth getting invested in or excited about and I consider it a Major flaw in the storytelling so far.

    Too hard isn't fun for a lot of people I get that - but too easy also isn't fun. TES wasn't a point & click adventure and I certainly don't want ESO stories to feel like that
  • Supreme_Atromancer
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    What he's getting at with that statement is the need to get away from all the MMO baggage. Even so, every day, every time the developers want to implement something new which might appeal to the TES-type fan, you get a crowd of howling hardcores yelling "that's stupid, ITS A MMO!!!" - exactly what they wanted to be free from.

    Matt freely admits that its probably technically an MMO. So yes, there is still grind - I guess that's associated with the persistent world aspect. Do they always get it right? Nope. He admits that in the article, too. But we can try to be heard here on the forums, or like you have wisely done- recognised when it doesn't make you happy and move on.

    Its broadly an MMO. But its just that the design philosophy is broader than the typical MMO constraints would otherwise allow for, which should allow them to focus far more on the online rpg aspects. Some MMO people may not find that fully satisfying, but they've said these things for a very long time.
  • Savince
    Savince
    RupzSkooma wrote: »
    ESO is a solo friendly MMORPG IMO and expecting it to be something else might be disappointing.Calling it not a part of a dying/stagnant genre is doing a good service for the game tho.

    Soloing in ESO is my cup of tea. In that sense Online RPG has some validity. MMO usually refers Mulitiplayer only possibilities. I mean you have to team up somebody and do raid together. In ESO you can do solo the most of it. On the flipside in Public Delves and Dark Anchors you can occasionally gather together organically to beat that last boss there.
    ESO is kind of child of RPG and MMO, I guess.
  • Danikat
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    It's just marketing talk. I remember ArenaNet saying similar things about Guild Wars 2 when it launched (and periodically since then) and for the same reason, to try to appeal to a wider audience rather than pull the same minority of dedicated MMO players away from their current game for a few months until the next thing comes along.

    Among gamers in general MMOs have something of a negative reputation as being massive time and money sinks with mechanics actually more similar to free-to-play games than anything else: designed to be just interesting enough to draw you in and repetitive and time consuming enough to keep you playing (and therefore paying) for as long as possible without the developers actually having to make much content. (Among non-gamers the reputation can be even worse.)

    How many MMOs actually work like that is of course debatable, but it's a common perception. I've mentioned on gaming forums that I play two MMOs and had people sincerely question how I could have time (or money) for anything else. Often just saying it's Elder Scrolls Online and Guild Wars 2 is enough for them to understand that's not an issue, but if not I can explain that neither game works like that.

    I think there's a lot of people who like the idea of the social aspects of an MMO - playing an RPG with a whole load of other people, making friends through the game rather than just by talking about it elsewhere, and so on, but don't think they'd be able to keep up with what they think of as typical MMO gameplay. So saying "Oh it's not an MMO, it's an RPG like you're familiar with but online" is a way of saying "this might be the game you're looking for (why not buy it and find out...go on, look here's a link to the store)".

    There definitely is a lot of grinding available in ESO, but you don't have to do all of it especially if you're a casual player mainly interested in questing, or even normal mode dungeons. You also don't have to pay the subscription to play the game, so new players can at least try it out without paying anything beyond the box price and then only subscribe if and when they think it's worth having.
    Edited by Danikat on May 14, 2021 11:26AM
    PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
  • _Zathras_
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    Eevee_42 wrote: »
    There was a new article I read today (I’ll link it down below) that stated eso isn’t actually an mmo, but an online rpg? I can’t even say I’m surprised by this given the direction the game has been going over the years. If you’re looking for an experience that’s more hardcore than light attacking the main villain of a year long story to death, you should probably look elsewhere.

    So why isn’t eso an mmo? Because it’s all fun, no grinding, and none of that lame hardcore stuff...hilarious.

    They make statements about eso not being a grind like other mmo’s (just the fun parts)? I find this to be beyond laughable. Just to name a few horrible grinds in this game, let’s start with the new CP system. It is actually much more punishing to people who don’t want to grind in Skyreach for 15 hours a day compared to the old system. Then there’s lore books, undaunted, psijic, skyshards, antiquities on top of the gear grind. Eso has all of the typical mmo grinds, but it’s wrapped up in voice acted quests and flashy trailers. It is misleading to state otherwise. I want to clarify that I myself have no issue with grinds and I think they’re a healthy part of games to a reasonable extent. However, this is just straight up lying to our faces.

    When you break everything down and look at what game you’re paying $15 a month for to play, what actually is it, if not an mmo? Unimaginative stories, repetitive yearly content (how many different versions of dark anchors does this game need)? Raiding and pvp are extremely lackluster if you want to play them on any serious level. You get one raid a year, and there’s all of your content completed on the first day it comes out. The lack of pvp love really speaks for itself though. Pvp players are neglected on such a scale that so many of them have left the game at this point. It’s plagued with horrible performance issues, their ideas and concerns seem to fall on deaf ears, and the last actual pvp content was released 4 years ago.

    I actually used to love eso, the combat was unique and had a lot of potential. The elder scrolls world and lore is amazing. But to see it turn into this made me stop playing a long time ago. Reading this article today reinforced how I already felt. That if you want anything more out of the game other than RP and questing, then go play something else; you’re not welcome here.

    Here is the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2021/05/13/elder-scrolls-blackwood-zenimax/

    The article is a pre-Blackwood PR marketing interview. Nothing more, nothing less.

    As to your points of contention..every game has something that people don't like, and aspects that others enjoy.

    "But to see it turn into this made me stop playing a long time ago."

    I'm confused what your motivation is? Because the content and cadence hasn't changed. People who are playing now are (generally) happy with what ESO offers, and are fully aware of the state of the game. The sky isn't falling. The game hasn't "turned into" anything nefarious and vile.

    At the end of the day, the article was light, upbeat, and promotional. I'm sorry your takeaway spurred you to come back "after all these years away" to share your negative perception.
  • zaria
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    One special thing about eso is that an it has an decent customer base who see it as an single player game. They buy the new chapters and play them, perhaps also the story dlc but not much other stuff.
    They are not MMO players as we see them not interested in collecting gear or cosmetic nor achievements.
    Then done with the content they log off and come back on next update.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Inaya
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    I don't care what they want to call it. ESO has a beautiful world and so many different things to do. You can relax with fishing or housing, run trials or dungeons, farm for patterns/recipes, farm for mats, do surveys, quest, achievements, explore, steal, PVP.... and the list goes on. Something for every mood.
  • Iccotak
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    zaria wrote: »
    One special thing about eso is that an it has an decent customer base who see it as an single player game. They buy the new chapters and play them, perhaps also the story dlc but not much other stuff.
    They are not MMO players as we see them not interested in collecting gear or cosmetic nor achievements.
    Then done with the content they log off and come back on next update.

    again, I'd like the single player game more if I actually had difficulty options / solo story gameplay was actually engaging on some level. Once you are no longer very new and have a basic grasp of mechanics the story becomes to much akin to a walking simulator. There has got to be a normal / veteran option that shows an increase in damage output as well as additional mechanics.

    (This is my hill)
  • cptqrk
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    I think this is the best thing about ESO.

    It can be a single player experience, it can be a grind fest, and it can be a social game.

    It all depends on you, and how you choose to interact with the game.

    After finishing Coldharbour, I've personally decided to pick a zone and clear it for my single player experience, I've decided to not grind, and have joined a few guilds for the social aspect. This works for me, as I still earn CP points (albeit slower than others would), get to enjoy the stories, and chat with and group with other people for harder content.

    This complaint, if it is a complaint, can be summed up in YMMV.
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