When will pre-Morrowind characters be allowed to get the skill point from a chapter's intro quest?

renne · January 2021

Moloch1514 wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

This is just one big non-issue. Pre-Morrowind characters aren't missing anything, post-Morrowind characters just have a little (almost meaningless) extra.

But pre Morrowind characters are missing 1 extra skill point that is now earnable in the game. So by definition of "are not", this is false/misleading.

I've seen people with pre-Morrowind characters complaining that they never got a skillpoint refunded with the werewolf thingy so some of them definitely are NOT missing 1 extra skill point because this bug has given them at least one more than they have actually earned.

VaranisArano · January 2021

renne wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

This is just one big non-issue. Pre-Morrowind characters aren't missing anything, post-Morrowind characters just have a little (almost meaningless) extra.

But pre Morrowind characters are missing 1 extra skill point that is now earnable in the game. So by definition of "are not", this is false/misleading.

I've seen people with pre-Morrowind characters complaining that they never got a skillpoint refunded with the werewolf thingy so some of them definitely are NOT missing 1 extra skill point because this bug has given them at least one more than they have actually earned.

It's unfortunate that apparently some players are both missing the tutorial skill point AND got more skill points than they earned due to the bug.

Okay, that sounds silly when it turns out there was a (temporary) net benefit to players, but it matters to players who want to make sure they actually have what they deserve.

ZOS offers a skill point from some tutorials and not other tutorials? Well, fairness suggests that ZOS should retroactively offer the tutorial skill points.

ZOS glitched skill points so more were given to players depending on their CP? Well, fairness suggests that those extra skill points should be removed.

Now, yes, that will result in a net loss. I've got enough CP that I'm expecting that somewhere along the line my pre-Morrowind MagDK got some extra skill points from the glitch and ZOS will remove them. That's entirely fine.

renne · January 2021

I think pre-Morrowind toons SHOULD be given a skill point, but even if they are, unfortunately I honestly can't see this complaint ever going away because chances are high these people ALREADY have more skill points than they're entitled to.

So yeah, for them it WILL be a net loss and because these people haven't seen the skill point in their inventory to them that also means was never given (even if it was).

VaranisArano · January 2021

renne wrote: »

I think pre-Morrowind toons SHOULD be given a skill point, but even if they are, unfortunately I honestly can't see this complaint ever going away because chances are high these people ALREADY have more skill points than they're entitled to.

So yeah, for them it WILL be a net loss and because these people haven't seen the skill point in their inventory to them that also means was never given (even if it was).

Well, except that if ZOS never addresses the problem, those pre-Morrowind characters will end up A. losing the unearned skill points from the glitch AND B. still missing the tutorial skill point that newer characters have. Double loss, instead of at least getting back the one skill point that only newer characters earn.

In this case, its not a complaint of "I don't have enough skill points." I agree that's a problem with no end unless ZOS put in enough skill points to unlock 100% of skills.

Instead, the complaint is "Older characters didn't get a tutorial skill point that newer characters did." That's a considerably smaller scale needed for a solution, and one that ZOS could fix. In fact, there's probably never been a better time for that than when they are overhauling how the game handles granting and refunding skill points in general.

After all, if you have to fix one problem (the erroneously granted extra skill points), why not also fix another problem (assigning skill points to all tutorials, including retroactively)?

renne · January 2021

But this is the thing, even if they do that - which as I said I think they should, I never said anything about if ZoS didnt address it, I DO know exactly what the problem that people have is here that we're talking about! - there will still be people who'll claim they didn't get it because they didn't "see" it.

That's what I'm saying, not that the complaint is that they don't have enough skill points, but that they didn't get this one, because IF they've got ones that they shouldn't (and there's a net loss or even just a loss of one) they'll never have seen it in their skill point list therefore it didn't exist/wasn't given to them, therefore ZoS are liars.

Tell me this won't happen. Tell me, if ZoS does give this skill point to pre-Morrowind toons, and those toons also lose a skill point/s due to the bug, that people won't claim that actually they never got it at all.

Because honestly, unless we're specifically told how many skill points we should have or are losing - especially on console where we don't have addons for this - even if ZoS says they're doing it, how would we know.

...I'm going to stop now before I go down some weird pre-Morrowind toon skill point rabbit hole here hahahaha although it's probably too late for that. 🤔😅

VaranisArano · January 2021

renne wrote: »

But this is the thing, even if they do that - which as I said I think they should, I never said anything about if ZoS didnt address it, I DO know exactly what the problem that people have is here that we're talking about! - there will still be people who'll claim they didn't get it because they didn't "see" it.

That's what I'm saying, not that the complaint is that they don't have enough skill points, but that they didn't get this one, because IF they've got ones that they shouldn't (and there's a net loss or even just a loss of one) they'll never have seen it in their skill point list therefore it didn't exist/wasn't given to them, therefore ZoS are liars.

Tell me this won't happen. Tell me, if ZoS does give this skill point to pre-Morrowind toons, and those toons also lose a skill point/s due to the bug, that people won't claim that actually they never got it at all.

Because honestly, unless we're specifically told how many skill points we should have or are losing - especially on console where we don't have addons for this - even if ZoS says they're doing it, how would we know.

...I'm going to stop now before I go down some weird pre-Morrowind toon skill point rabbit hole here hahahaha although it's probably too late for that. 🤔😅

On my end, I'm not sure that certain players' mistrust of ZOS is a problem that's going to be solved.

Now, if ZOS wanted to take a crack at it for skill points, a nice starter might be including a base game way to check what skill points you have and have not acquired. Since skill point refunding seems to be an area of coding problems for ZOS, they might consider adding some player-side transparency to the situation. Or not. I'm sure they have many addon functionalities that are higher priority to add to the base game than catering to a segment of players who would not listen to a patch note saying they've fixed the problem, but instead play "but how do we really know" games and wanting to count their skill points for themselves.

At a certain point, game devs have to design for reasonable players. Fix the missing skill point and most of the reasonable complaints about the tutorial skill point go away.

heaven13 · January 2021

This discussion comes up often. Unfortunately, it's not a bug or oversight for old players to not get the skillpoint from the new chapter tutorials. You can see in this ESO live that it is absolutely intentional. "If you've done the Wailing Prison tutorial, you already got your skill point for doing that so, you know, you don't get another one." I believe it was originally intended that if you had received a skill point from Morrowind tutorial, you weren't supposed to get the skill point from the prophet; they were supposed to be mutually exclusive (though I can't find the ESO live where that was stated since it's not in the one previously linked). So really, post-Morrowind characters should have one less skill point to put them on the same field as pre-Morrowind characters.

I'd be perfectly happy for it to go either way. What I really want is to be able to access the new tutorials on already-created characters for the story. Take a boat to Morrowind, get the scene, start tutorial. Head to Summerset for the first time, wake up in the mind prison. Etc, etc.

caperb · January 2021

Moloch1514 wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

This is just one big non-issue. Pre-Morrowind characters aren't missing anything, post-Morrowind characters just have a little (almost meaningless) extra.

But pre Morrowind characters are missing 1 extra skill point that is now earnable in the game. So by definition of "are not", this is false/misleading.

It is only earnable if you qualify for it. Pre-Morrowind characters don't, they are not missing anything. It is false/misleading that they qualify for it. (Edit: It is a little extra for newer characters, nothing more.)

Most of my characters are pre-Morrowind. Even better, my main is missing the werewolf skillpoint because I had him leveled as a werewolf at that time to get the achievements, even though he is a magicka character. Still I have too many skillpoints to even use of lot's of different builds at the same time.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Moloch1514 · January 2021

caperb wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

This is just one big non-issue. Pre-Morrowind characters aren't missing anything, post-Morrowind characters just have a little (almost meaningless) extra.

But pre Morrowind characters are missing 1 extra skill point that is now earnable in the game. So by definition of "are not", this is false/misleading.

It is only earnable if you qualify for it. Pre-Morrowind characters don't, they are not missing anything. It is false/misleading that they qualify for it. (Edit: It is a little extra for newer characters, nothing more.)

Most of my characters are pre-Morrowind. Even better, my main is missing the werewolf skillpoint because I had him leveled as a werewolf at that time to get the achievements, even though he is a magicka character. Still I have too many skillpoints to even use of lot's of different builds at the same time.

[snip]

So basically all players are not equal, and you support that. As an adult, I believe in correcting oversights when pointed out, and that we should grant our elderly toons with the same rights enjoyed by the younger generations of characters.

Silaf · January 2021

Well i want it. If some players are missing it Zos should fix it.
Considering werewolves are having a similar problem and that all skillpoints are tracked by akivements it shoulden't be impossible to fix it in a patch.

jle30303 · January 2021

Personally I think the sensible thing to do would be to allow all players to play all of the tutorials. Since each one has a skill point.

Everybody ends up doing the Coldharbour one (the original) because it sets off the original main quest line - it's just that people who started in Morrowind, Summerset, Elsweyr or Greymoor end up doing a *second* tutorial (or rather, a newer tutorial with the option of doing the Coldharbour turtorial *as well*) that original players never had the chance to do.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · January 2021

While im not against it at all, i think there is more pressing matter in this game tha a single useless skill point

If they do it i would have 66 unused skill point instead of 65 so im in no urge to get it