Code of Conduct/Terms of Service question

Rittings · December 2020

A guildie of mine received a very shocking set of whispers (before she was able to block the person) instructing her on how to commit suicide for the good of everyone. After blocking them, and reporting, the person is now stalking the characters of my guildie (she's female, not that that should matter, but is clearly distressed by this guy...).

Zenimax seem to have concluded their investigations and the person is still playing and doing this.

Now, I know people who have been banned for t-bagging... which seems a little odd if that's not allowed, but this kind of thing is. Can anyone point me to the exact wording in the TOS that would allow this person to survive a ban/punishment?? I'm guessing they are probably an ESO+ subscriber and ZoS maybe care more about the green than they gross misconduct... but that's my own opinion (not stating it as fact) and is pure conjecture on my part.

Anyways, if someone can help direct me to that information I'd be extremely grateful.

BisDasBlutGefriert · December 2020

As far as I'm aware, there isn't Anything in the TOS that protects people who stalk and harass other players. That'd be effed up if there was. It's up to the customer support/help to escalate and take care of your ticket and player report to make sure it's in the right spot so things get taken care of correctly.

You can always check the status of your ticket by writing the ticket number on here and flagging down a mod. BillE is always really good at responding to questions on tickets.

Personally, I'd open up another ticket if the first one was "concluded" and nothing has happened yet. Make sure your guildie puts as much detail about what's happening, screenshot messages, and add the player name who's doing all this into the report too. Heck, a video of it happening makes for some pretty damning evidence too.

Hope this helps!!! Good luck! 👍🏻

Megatto · December 2020

Just keep reporting the guy and eventually something's going to happen. Eventually...

Rittings · December 2020

Oh believe me I saw all the screenshots, and I've seen the ticket screenshot of the ticket being closed by Zenimax too. The player stalked my guildie 2 days ago - and today are just in Craglorn pugging for trials. I'd honestly share the screenshots here of what was said, but I know that would get me banned because the content is too graphic.

Wolfkeks · December 2020

I'm really sorry that your friend has to endure this.

As far as I'm aware this is not against the Terms of Service but probably falls under the Code of Conduct.

2.3 You may not harass, threaten, intentionally humiliate, “stream snipe”, “name and shame”, engage in acts of “griefing”, or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience(...).

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct

That said, ZOS is not discussing disciplinary actions against other users, so maybe they got a warning or something else, but if that person keeps doing this you can either create a new ticket or write the ZOS stuff either here by tagging them or sending them a private message on the forum with your old ticket number and preferably screenshots or videos showing this person's behavior.
I would advise to write the staff because they can escalate your ticket to the right place.

Otherwise your friend can change her username and/or her character names so that the person can't find her so easily. This solution is definitely not the best as many people are quite attached to their names but it might be a temporary solution until ZOS has another look at it.

Hope you and your friend are okay though and i hope this gets resolved soon.

Best wishes!

Rittings · December 2020

If Zenimax provide the money to pay for a name change, I'm sure she would do it. However, I've seen players banned for t-bagging... but honestly what was said is HORRIFIC. I'll tell you what. Let me see if I can edit roughly the opening message (and it went on for a while after as my guildie told them to stop but they persisted)... then I'll post it... and let the community decide if it broke the terms of service. The player didn't even seem to get a temporary suspension. It's as though they did nothing for fear of losing a subscriber - well I'll tell you something, I pay for my wife's subscription and my own, and for our safety, I'll happily quit the game and end both subs.

Starlock · December 2020

If ZoS doesn't handle it, Microsoft absolutely will. If you are on console, in my experience Microsoft has been way more responsive to things like this and taken action on things I've reported. Report them to Microsoft and they will absolutely get their rears handed to them.

Rittings · December 2020

Sadly, it's Sony and the onus according to them falls on Zenimax to deal with. I'm pretty sure if they don't, then I can escalate an issue with Sony but I'd have to cite Zenimax's failure to comply to the Sony TOS.

Anyway. Here is the message that warrants zero punishment... I've been threatened with far worse by ZoS, for far less...

[snip]

[Edited to remove Profanity]

Starlock · December 2020

Rittings wrote: »

Sadly, it's Sony and the onus according to them falls on Zenimax to deal with.

You can report through Sony too. If you are on console, report through both ZoS and the console tools you have. While ZoS can only suspend an account from one game, Sony/Microsoft can ban their entire console from connecting to their services. And they will for serious cases.

Salvas_Aren · December 2020

Rittings wrote: »

A guildie of mine received a very shocking set of whispers (before she was able to block the person) instructing her on how to commit suicide for the good of everyone. After blocking them, and reporting, the person is now stalking the characters of my guildie (she's female, not that that should matter, but is clearly distressed by this guy...).

Zenimax seem to have concluded their investigations and the person is still playing and doing this.

Now, I know people who have been banned for t-bagging... which seems a little odd if that's not allowed, but this kind of thing is. Can anyone point me to the exact wording in the TOS that would allow this person to survive a ban/punishment?? I'm guessing they are probably an ESO+ subscriber and ZoS maybe care more about the green than they gross misconduct... but that's my own opinion (not stating it as fact) and is pure conjecture on my part.

Anyways, if someone can help direct me to that information I'd be extremely grateful.

Reports as you might think of them are pretty worthless.

Everything you write the support will go down the storm drain unless you insist on further action after their initial bot reply and attach screen shots or links to YT videos.

A friend got harassed that way for outperforming a player in Cyro, and while he was rather amused personally - since he is kind of a hatewhisp collector - he reported said player when he realized that such posts can do damage to other players who dont have such a thick PvP skin.

We never saw said bully again.

VaranisArano · December 2020

Rittings wrote: »

If Zenimax provide the money to pay for a name change, I'm sure she would do it. However, I've seen players banned for t-bagging... but honestly what was said is HORRIFIC. I'll tell you what. Let me see if I can edit roughly the opening message (and it went on for a while after as my guildie told them to stop but they persisted)... then I'll post it... and let the community decide if it broke the terms of service. The player didn't even seem to get a temporary suspension. It's as though they did nothing for fear of losing a subscriber - well I'll tell you something, I pay for my wife's subscription and my own, and for our safety, I'll happily quit the game and end both subs.

I don't advise posting it here. The forum community isn't going to have any input on whether or not it broke the TOS or not beyond the judgment of the peanut gallery. However, if the forum mods deem it to be against the forum code of conduct, they'll remove it and possibly discipline you for breaking the forum rules. They also generally take a dim view of discussing the specifics of disciplinary actions here on the forums.

Just keep reporting anything you or the victim feels is breaking the TOS and Code of Conduct with whatever evidence you have. Think of it like reporting a coworker to HR. Document everything and keep ZOS informed that this is an ongoing problem.

Other steps:
If there's a ticket number for your report, you can post that here for the mods to check up on.
Start a help ticket asking for assistance with avoiding escalating harassment - if this player would like a free name change, Support would be the people to talk to.
You can PM a mod or community manager to ask their advice on how to handle your evidence of harassment, or to ask for help with avoiding the escalating harassment, such as with receiving a free name change.

ZOS_Chiroptera · December 2020

Hello @Rittings, we're sorry to hear about this player's toxic behavior. We do investigate all incidents that are reported to us but can't comment on any disciplinary actions taken.

If you have your friend's ticket number, please post it here or in a message to me so that we can ensure this ticket has been handled correctly.

Rittings · December 2020

ZOS_Chiroptera wrote: »

Hello @Rittings, we're sorry to hear about this player's toxic behavior. We do investigate all incidents that are reported to us but can't comment on any disciplinary actions taken.

If you have your friend's ticket number, please post it here or in a message to me so that we can ensure this ticket has been handled correctly.

# 201223-001838 - I believe the ticket has been closed, but this player is still playing and still following around the victim.

I'm trying to tread as carefully as possible when it comes to the rules of this forum - by hiding names etc, and even blurring out curse words that I know to be banned. I'm definitely not trying to flame etc too - but trying to be as honest as possible. The fact remains, were this the only message it would still stand as horrific - but the person requested them to stop whispering several times before they eventually learned how to block them... they didn't listen and persisted with more aggressive threats like "I'll be seeing u..."

I think I'm more concerned by information from my own investigation I have discovered. There is at least one person I know and have spoken to that had to move real life address when this person showed up in real life and made some threats (which I can divulge as they are personal, and I'm unsure as to whether I'd be breaking legal confidentiality into that case).

SammyKhajit · December 2020

What a despicable behaviour.

OP, please convey my well wish to your guild mate, and I hope she and others won’t have to deal with such person again.

And thank you for raising this issue and seeking more action from ZOS.

Rittings · December 2020

[quote="Rittings;c-7065362"

Anyway. Here is the message that warrants zero punishment... I've been threatened with far worse by ZoS, for far less...

[snip]

[Edited to remove Profanity]
[/quote]

[snip] than they are to the perpetrator that is going around doing something that is actually considered illegal in most countries... including the country (USA) that Zenimax Studios operates in. Grace's Law is a thing in Maryland too...

"Misuse of Interactive Computer Service (Grace’s Law). Passed legislature 4/2013. Significantly changed version signed by governor on May 2, 2013. Named after Grace McComas, a high school student who committed suicide in 2012 on Easter after being cyberbullied by a neighbor."

Source: https://cyberbullying.org/bullying-laws/maryland/

[Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

TwinLamps · December 2020

Beware of naming and shaming.
That madeup category is a deadly sin.
So if you post anything, sadly you need to blur all the names, guild names etc to be safe from violating the said rule.

Girl_Number8 · December 2020

Rittings wrote: »

A guildie of mine received a very shocking set of whispers (before she was able to block the person) instructing her on how to commit suicide for the good of everyone. After blocking them, and reporting, the person is now stalking the characters of my guildie (she's female, not that that should matter, but is clearly distressed by this guy...).

Zenimax seem to have concluded their investigations and the person is still playing and doing this.

Now, I know people who have been banned for t-bagging... which seems a little odd if that's not allowed, but this kind of thing is. Can anyone point me to the exact wording in the TOS that would allow this person to survive a ban/punishment?? I'm guessing they are probably an ESO+ subscriber and ZoS maybe care more about the green than they gross misconduct... but that's my own opinion (not stating it as fact) and is pure conjecture on my part.

Anyways, if someone can help direct me to that information I'd be extremely grateful.

Have her post it on their official twitter. This has helped with such matters. Just be polite and follow common sense.

If it has escalated to a certain point she should let her local law enforcement know.

She needs to get out of any shared guilds with this person and block him. Make it very hard for the stalker to stalk.

It is a video game and unfortunately you will always have trolls.

Good luck

Rittings · December 2020

Unfortuantely... I have gotten my official response from Zenimax Online Studios... they have stated clearly that it's acceptible for players to threaten to assist in unwanted suicide (ie murder) and break many laws with regards to cyber bullying... They've literally endorsed it with their response today. The ticket is closed and the player who treated a player this way is mocking Zenimax right now and laughing at about how they are above the law and terms of service.

Thus ends my subscription to ESO. And my wifes... and my sons. Be happy you kept the subscription of 1 monster, but lost 3 honest customers.

Ellimist_Entreri · December 2020

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_Chiroptera @ZOS_ConnorG

Rittings · December 2020

No good tagging any of them. I got a PM from Chiroptera stating clearly that the ticket was closed and no action taken.

Rittings · December 2020

And so now we move to the BBB and Sony themselves.

Ellimist_Entreri · December 2020

Rittings wrote: »

No good tagging any of them. I got a PM from Chiroptera stating clearly that the ticket was closed and no action taken.

Unfortunate, thank you for the clarification.

Rittings · December 2020

Okay. So I think I understand why my pic was removed. So I'm now going to repost exactly what Zenimax have stated is allowed - and you can apparantly say this to players in game and its okay by them... by their own admission.

[Edit to remove inappropriate content]

ZOS_Erysna · December 2020

Greetings everyone,

After review, we've decided to close this thread as it has run it's course and is no longer constructive.

We take seriously and investigate all reports of harassment. If you ever come across this kind of behavior, please report it via a support ticket at help.elderscrollsonline.com. You can always block players by right-clicking on their username and setting them to 'ignore'. This will prevent them from contacting you.

Thank you for your understanding.