katorga wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Community has overwhelmingly been saying that this is the worst proc meta we’ve had in years and the only change we get is a slap to the wrist on sheer venom. Disappointed, the combat team truly doesn’t do any PvP testing or enter BGs. People have been asking for item set rebalance, class rebalance, new CP system, and all we ever get is more broken proc sets. Which also for some reason take at least 6-months to get nerfed whereas every other MMORPG would hot fix them within a week. The combat team for this mmo is awful, and 95% of the people who PvP on a normal bases would agree. After 6 years coming this January I think I’ll finally find a new MMO to main as the PvP community in this one is ignored.

Many PvE player like these set that are finaly usable after years and years of being trash.

Change how PvP work 1st to not destroy any fun thing PVE got because of PvP..

I do quite a bit of end game PVE content and am in a few trial guilds where we extensively discuss group/build theory crafting and I can safely say that nobody and I mean nobody uses the sets everyone is talking about in PVE. Those sets are absolutely worthless in end game PVE. They are a huge DPS loss.

If you need these sets for PVE you are doing something very wrong.

Its not that they are needed
But when you have 18 character all of them having the same set for optimal dps it quite borring

Thats the truth. What are there, like 6 viable dps sets for pve, if that? PvP was sort of the same. Just a few viable sets. Then ZOS went of a rampage of releasing proc sets, improving old ones, and nerfing stat sets. Now there are tons of set combos for pvp. It makes me think that ZOS has internal polling numbers showing "the Community overwhelmingly loves" proc sets.

Things i like procsets, but not in their current form.

It would be much better if they scaled off of stats.

As it stands they provide far too much dmg, and it has been proven, for very little effort.

I think procsets more than have a place in the game, but they cant be the de-facto, only viable things.

If you go to BGs or non cp cyro these days and your not rocking procs, you are so severly handicapping yourself its not even funny.

Also Zos has done a lot to balance stat sets, hence the nerf to new moon and fury for example.

Theres a lot more variety now, but its completely pushed sideways due to procsets being so dominant.

Also there isnt that much variety when it comes to procsets, Syvarra pretty much dominates the meta to the point where its even worth running on magicka toons.
Sheer venom is a strong contender, but for example venomous smite cannot compete with sets that have potentially 100% uptime.

sharquez wrote: »

The only thing killing PVP these days is performance issues, and toxic players.

you forgot to mention horrible threads where they claim thier ideas are the same ideas and wants of the entire eso community.
what they dont realize is that this forum is only a very small portion of the eso community, very few people come here to the forums from eso and if you want an accurate account of eso communities thoughts and feelings on eso subjects then you need to ask each of them personally by email of thier @account name.
and thats eso devs job not ours and its very Blocking to the rest of us to even be allowed to have a different opinion for these people to claim that 98% of eso thinks, or wants 1 certain thing, just not true.
they dont have proof of that.

sharquez wrote: »

Nah they are good. You are just tired of dying to them. Because that's what happens when you don't take cover from enemy attacks.

well said, infact like i said earlier, i still stand by:

i think what the problem is here, is that people simply do not use purge on thier character and when proc sets or problems come to them, they die, but that is not the case with me and my build because i use purge for strong poisens and for situations where ny health wears thin from D.O.T.s

so i strongly Strongly suggest to all people:
slot purge and slot a heal of somekind and use them when your introuble, if you refuse to do that then you simply gimping your build and survival.

Kurat wrote: »

Proc sets help less experienced also to have a chance. Current pvp community is toxic and arrogant. They only enjoy the game if they can easily kill newer players or casuals. Now with proc sets, some pve player who's fishing or questing in Cyro can fight back and all the community is whining lmao.

Typical, let's nerf what kills us and what we can't kill.

4k dmg/sec from spamming light attack and 1 ability is not a fighting chance it is a crutch. Secondly, less experienced players still have no chance to win a fight against an experienced player also using procs. Proc sets are bad for everyone whether you are a potato or a god at PvP. In fact your comment can’t be further from the truth. I can 1vX potatos using proc sets, but the minute I fight a half decent player with procs inside the stack of potatos I was fighting I am dead.

Kurat wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Proc sets help less experienced also to have a chance. Current pvp community is toxic and arrogant. They only enjoy the game if they can easily kill newer players or casuals. Now with proc sets, some pve player who's fishing or questing in Cyro can fight back and all the community is whining lmao.

Typical, let's nerf what kills us and what we can't kill.

4k dmg/sec from spamming light attack and 1 ability is not a fighting chance it is a crutch. Secondly, less experienced players still have no chance to win a fight against an experienced player also using procs. Proc sets are bad for everyone whether you are a potato or a god at PvP. In fact your comment can’t be further from the truth. I can 1vX potatos using proc sets, but the minute I fight a half decent player with procs inside the stack of potatos I was fighting I am dead.

Lmao. Then why is it meta if it's that bad. And why is everyone complaining, just use non proc sets and be superior. Your post doesn't make any sense. Veterans dont like proc sets because potatoes can kill them. It's not fun if target dummy fights back is it?
I've been killed countless of times by some hotshot while fishing in Cyro with my pve toon and got teabaged and insult whispers. Now I've managed to kill few of them and they are crying lmao

Cause everyone is complaining about it that's why and it's only a matter of time before one of those "hotshots" finds you and procs you down and teabags you again with whispers to follow.

Kurat wrote: »

Proc sets help less experienced also to have a chance. Current pvp community is toxic and arrogant. They only enjoy the game if they can easily kill newer players or casuals. Now with proc sets, some pve player who's fishing or questing in Cyro can fight back and all the community is whining lmao.

Typical, let's nerf what kills us and what we can't kill.

Does this mentality apply to PvE as well, where there is also plenty of toxicity and arrogance? Can I have some easy to acquire sets that allow me to run around in veteran arenas and trials spamming light attack + 1 or 2 other buttons in order to hit >= 90k dps? Do you think we'd see many complaints from PvE players on the forums if such sets existed?

Kurat wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Proc sets help less experienced also to have a chance. Current pvp community is toxic and arrogant. They only enjoy the game if they can easily kill newer players or casuals. Now with proc sets, some pve player who's fishing or questing in Cyro can fight back and all the community is whining lmao.

Typical, let's nerf what kills us and what we can't kill.

Does this mentality apply to PvE as well, where there is also plenty of toxicity and arrogance? Can I have some easy to acquire sets that allow me to run around in veteran arenas and trials spamming light attack + 1 or 2 other buttons in order to hit >= 90k dps? Do you think we'd see many complaints from PvE players on the forums if such sets existed?

Stamplar, deadly + rele + selenes. Only need to spam jabs and LAs. 90k
There you go sir

It's not like proc sets are only functional on one class, so that's not a valid argument. What sets will allow my Magicka Necromancer to use light attack + 1 or 2 other abilities to hit 90k+ dps?

Edit: And they need to be easy to acquire sets, too, like proc sets are. Something that I can either craft, buy, solo farm, or solo queue into.

Gilvoth wrote: »

so i strongly Strongly suggest to all people:
slot purge and slot a heal of somekind and use them when your introuble, if you refuse to do that then you simply gimping your build and survival.

Should have applied this to yourself when you died from streak, but you didn't. Maybe if you slotted a heal you wouldn't have died to 8 ticks of streak. You were in trouble, use them.

The facts are that you do a lot more damage currently WITH proc sets compared to without them, with little to no downside. Multiple people have shown how a set like sheer venom is essentially the dmg equivalent of over 600 wd 5 pc set with a free 100% multiplier. I have posted videos showing that procs with one skill is 3x more dmg than just the skill and flat damage sets. As has been said on the replies of these videos, I am able to get a "score of a good player" using just one skill and light attacks.

You're simply gimping yourself right now by NOT running proc sets because they're that good. They're easy to use and give you more than any other set can give you. You can sacrifice so much actual weapon damage and fit in more recovery, allowing you to utilize things like higher health, undeath, etc...making a MUCH, MUCH stronger build than other sets provide.

I would LOVE for a pro proc person at any point in literally any discussion, attempt to show mathematically that proc sets are currently balanced compared to stat based builds. I'd love to hear any argument outside of ad hominem attacks on "elitists" or random strawmans that really don't have any weight. Judging by the multiple threads where none of this is happening, I am assuming that there isn't one, which once again is why it's so egregious that they haven't been fixed yet.

Honestly, a much better argument than all of these ridiculous ones is "i like proc sets where they are, increase weapon dmg sets if it's imbalanced". At least at that point you're arguing based off what you want out of the game, not based off "elitists" or "minority players" which is just not really an argument.

katorga wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Community has overwhelmingly been saying that this is the worst proc meta we’ve had in years and the only change we get is a slap to the wrist on sheer venom. Disappointed, the combat team truly doesn’t do any PvP testing or enter BGs. People have been asking for item set rebalance, class rebalance, new CP system, and all we ever get is more broken proc sets. Which also for some reason take at least 6-months to get nerfed whereas every other MMORPG would hot fix them within a week. The combat team for this mmo is awful, and 95% of the people who PvP on a normal bases would agree. After 6 years coming this January I think I’ll finally find a new MMO to main as the PvP community in this one is ignored.

Many PvE player like these set that are finaly usable after years and years of being trash.

Change how PvP work 1st to not destroy any fun thing PVE got because of PvP..

I do quite a bit of end game PVE content and am in a few trial guilds where we extensively discuss group/build theory crafting and I can safely say that nobody and I mean nobody uses the sets everyone is talking about in PVE. Those sets are absolutely worthless in end game PVE. They are a huge DPS loss.

If you need these sets for PVE you are doing something very wrong.

Its not that they are needed
But when you have 18 character all of them having the same set for optimal dps it quite borring

Thats the truth. What are there, like 6 viable dps sets for pve, if that? PvP was sort of the same. Just a few viable sets. Then ZOS went of a rampage of releasing proc sets, improving old ones, and nerfing stat sets. Now there are tons of set combos for pvp. It makes me think that ZOS has internal polling numbers showing "the Community overwhelmingly loves" proc sets.

Things i like procsets, but not in their current form.

It would be much better if they scaled off of stats.

As it stands they provide far too much dmg, and it has been proven, for very little effort.

I think procsets more than have a place in the game, but they cant be the de-facto, only viable things.

If you go to BGs or non cp cyro these days and your not rocking procs, you are so severly handicapping yourself its not even funny.

Also Zos has done a lot to balance stat sets, hence the nerf to new moon and fury for example.

Theres a lot more variety now, but its completely pushed sideways due to procsets being so dominant.

Also there isnt that much variety when it comes to procsets, Syvarra pretty much dominates the meta to the point where its even worth running on magicka toons.
Sheer venom is a strong contender, but for example venomous smite cannot compete with sets that have potentially 100% uptime.

Syvarra didn't even become a "Thing" until the last few weeks. A good thing too. It has made me mountains of gold.

Same actually, that thing sells for insane amount of money.

montiferus wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Community has overwhelmingly been saying that this is the worst proc meta we’ve had in years and the only change we get is a slap to the wrist on sheer venom. Disappointed, the combat team truly doesn’t do any PvP testing or enter BGs. People have been asking for item set rebalance, class rebalance, new CP system, and all we ever get is more broken proc sets. Which also for some reason take at least 6-months to get nerfed whereas every other MMORPG would hot fix them within a week. The combat team for this mmo is awful, and 95% of the people who PvP on a normal bases would agree. After 6 years coming this January I think I’ll finally find a new MMO to main as the PvP community in this one is ignored.

Many PvE player like these set that are finaly usable after years and years of being trash.

Change how PvP work 1st to not destroy any fun thing PVE got because of PvP..

I do quite a bit of end game PVE content and am in a few trial guilds where we extensively discuss group/build theory crafting and I can safely say that nobody and I mean nobody uses the sets everyone is talking about in PVE. Those sets are absolutely worthless in end game PVE. They are a huge DPS loss.

If you need these sets for PVE you are doing something very wrong.

See ? People like you are the problem. Cuz they only see themself.
I've do way more than "quite a bit" of end game using all meta set.
Currently I'm retired and chill in casual guild where many people enjoy proc set cuz they can add theme to their build.
Also if you were a decent player like to seem to think, you''ll now that the difference for a good DDs between beginner set up and end-game one are about 10-15k at max. That mean most set are totally usable to clear content unless you're looking for harder trial HM or leaderboard.

Diversity of set, for many people (don't forget than casual are the more present type of player in ESO), bring lot of fun and that where proc set shine. For a very long time most of them where trash but now many of them are totally worth to slot.
Try a stam sorc with aegis, pillar, stormfist, you'll be surprised by how hard it can parse, and yet that totally themed build.
Sheer venom can easily be used by a stamDK in a poison build and taking advantage of the passive that give stamina each time poisoned debuff proc.
That just 2 exemples.
If they start nerfind proc set they will end-up nerfing al the other too, Zaan, Grodarth, relequen, pillar, etc.. Dunno for relequen but I've seen the 3 other used in PvP. That NOT a solution.

It's not about PvP "Meta" or PvE "Meta", it's about the fun of people that should have viable option.
Like you said, these set are NOT top tier (well depend, relequen (mono) and aegis (trash) are used by many stam and are proc set) but they're good enough to be used and cleaning 90% content.

For the PvP specific problem, every good PvP player should now that proc set are NOT the problem. Every patch PvP had "unplayable problem with lag and braindead tank build" THAT is the problem.
Fix Tank build, fix performance and FFS : made a separation between PvP and PvE, that just non-sens that buffing or nerfing one will impact badly the other one.

Don't get me wrong, I want everyone to have fun and that ofc including for PvP. But it just get me sick to read each patch idiot comment about "new problem" when all the base one that made these "new problem" appear are not fixed yet and people don't push enough ZoS to fix them but instead just want to change thing for their own mod instead of taking the whole game experience in is entirety.

I really like your name, OP. It's actually quite fitting also.

But I do agree with you.

NoSoup wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Community has overwhelmingly been saying that this is the worst proc meta we’ve had in years and the only change we get is a slap to the wrist on sheer venom. Disappointed, the combat team truly doesn’t do any PvP testing or enter BGs. People have been asking for item set rebalance, class rebalance, new CP system, and all we ever get is more broken proc sets. Which also for some reason take at least 6-months to get nerfed whereas every other MMORPG would hot fix them within a week. The combat team for this mmo is awful, and 95% of the people who PvP on a normal bases would agree. After 6 years coming this January I think I’ll finally find a new MMO to main as the PvP community in this one is ignored.

[Quoted post was removed]

Not really, this discussion is actually grounded on the fact that proc sets are overperforming. I've seen plenty of people die to something and then come to the forums to cry about it. I just wanted a simple @name that would also remind people who hate tell me after they get 1vXed that they are crying. Anyways, back to the topic, I can't believe that of all the nerf proc set threads ZOS still hasn't made a statement.

x48rph wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Everyone complaining (with good reason) about the proc sets and I'm just sitting here wondering why skills which were affected by the Major/Minor changes aren't being adjusted this patch to make them relevant over the next few months. Several ultimates and abilities are under budgeted and need at least a duration compensation for the Major nerfs (Nova, Storm Atronach, Hircine's Rage, Reaper's Mark, etc.). Slimecraw monster set is still pointless in its current state (you literally get more damage by using something else).

I understand that they may have a plan to balance these things in a future patch, but implementing these changes is taking far too long for any MMO. This pursuit for the perfect SBE has created such a tunnel vision that the rest of the game has been neglected for over a year now, and it is now starting to affect things it was not meant to affect like class abilities. It feels like they are chasing their own tail. Looks like we will have a half-broken game until next year.

This is quite typical of them. Instead of making the changes all at once they always just change part of it and give vague promises about fixing it in the future with no concern for the broken state they leave some builds and classes in in the mean time. By the time they get around to fixing it, they'll have done started on changing 10 other things, leaving those only half finished as well so even when it's fixed your class/build might still be busted and waiting on even more 'future' fixes

I've never played an MMORPG (and I've played a lot since 1997) where balance passes were so......... random and incomplete.


Usually, even if I disagree with it, I can see where a balance change is coming from, but with ESO in the last couple of years it just seems like change for the sake OF change much of the time.

So many players seem to be getting burnt out by this.