The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Any chance you could change the defiles to be a little stronger??
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »
Very true. I really don’t understand how it’s lost on people that their are two 8% healing buffs, two 16% healing buffs, and even without those at a 60% healing nerf, your fellow nb can go to 0 to 100 w/ just too hots. It’s insane.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
Very true. I really don’t understand how it’s lost on people that their are two 8% healing buffs, two 16% healing buffs, and even without those at a 60% healing nerf, your fellow nb can go to 0 to 100 w/ just too hots. It’s insane.
To say that we all don’t need a way we can build to effectively hurt that healing is a bit too much. Besides that, here and for now, I’m literally just asking for a buff to 20 for major and 10 for minor.
Only bc I think they fail to realize that it is a double nerf as nerfing the healing reduction by half means twice the amount of cp in befoul get you half the reduction also.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
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wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm not sure exactly what numbers people are typically getting on Rally these days, but I've seen some huge HP gains from it in BGs; way more than what my Resistant Flesh (which has about the same baseline as Honor the Dead/Breath of Life) is capable of. Against the Major + Minor Defile being spread everywhere by several different Stamina Necromancers the other day, I was spamming my heal for ~2.2k each cast, with a baseline magicka cost of 4,320.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
You need to be more specific than just saying, "They." Many Magicka builds actually have terrible self healing in no-CP right now. I had a recent BG match where one of the opposing teams had two Stamina Necromancers, which lead to AOE Major Defile being everywhere. In most of the engagements that game, my Resistant Flesh (a "burst" heal akin to Templar's Honor the Dead/Breath of Life) was mostly healing for 2.2k. Given that Stamina-Blastbones alone frequently hits for 6k+, my healing was basically worthless.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
They are already healing to full this patch with ease. Next patch they will have 10% more healing and 20-30% more regen on their primary resources.
We need things that hurt tanks relentlessly.
Magicka builds have a better assortment of healing than any stam build...
Also, look at how PVP is right now. People are 0 to 100 in seconds and it’s honestly insane. It is just going to be worse now. I like to play small scale or alone but feel more and more forced to play with a larger group to even be able to tank down these damage tanks...
Wut? Talking self heals here, right? Vigor + Rally is top notch healing. Throw some blocking or dodging in the mix. Tanks go with health scaling heals anyway. Usually it's magicka who has to pray that their healing stick heal really goes to them and not to some random 28m away. Some class heals don't even scale with any resource at all. Just because you have more option doesn't mean you have a "better" assortment.
Rapid regen plus class heals are the same thing but you can use it on teammates, and use a special weapon that give you quite a bit of the cost back on it.
It's also worth pointing out that Magicka has to deal with the game's "smart" targeting, which is often anything but what it's namesake implies. I have literally had a teammate die in front of me as my first two Rapid Regen casts hit the other two teammates who were standing behind me and *not* engaged in combat. And plenty of times when I needed the heal myself, it'd go to a snipe spammer on my team that was at 95% hp and not taking any heat. I've also died plenty of times because I was trying to reposition and spam heal myself in the process, but another teammate with better mobility got in front of me; it's not realistic to face away from everyone else for every cast that's needed on yourself.
In the past I was able to somewhat get around that issue by using Renewing Undeath for a heal, which I think was very much underrated. But after the healing nerf, it's a fart in a hurricane (so is Resistant Flesh, but it's at least slightly more gassy).2 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
Very true. I really don’t understand how it’s lost on people that their are two 8% healing buffs, two 16% healing buffs, and even without those at a 60% healing nerf, your fellow nb can go to 0 to 100 w/ just too hots. It’s insane.
And now please list all the specs that effortlessly have access to major and minor mending and vitality with the same uptime WW or necro can put major and minor defile on them3 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »
Very true. I really don’t understand how it’s lost on people that their are two 8% healing buffs, two 16% healing buffs, and even without those at a 60% healing nerf, your fellow nb can go to 0 to 100 w/ just too hots. It’s insane.
And now please list all the specs that effortlessly have access to major and minor mending and vitality with the same uptime WW or necro can put major and minor defile on them
I’ve already discussed how necro should be minor and how healing is over the top w/o those buffs... a werewolf can spend upwards of 3.3k plus stam for 4 seconds of defile at the cost of being able to heal better through the other morph.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm not sure exactly what numbers people are typically getting on Rally these days, but I've seen some huge HP gains from it in BGs; way more than what my Resistant Flesh (which has about the same baseline as Honor the Dead/Breath of Life) is capable of. Against the Major + Minor Defile being spread everywhere by several different Stamina Necromancers the other day, I was spamming my heal for ~2.2k each cast, with a baseline magicka cost of 4,320.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
You need to be more specific than just saying, "They." Many Magicka builds actually have terrible self healing in no-CP right now. I had a recent BG match where one of the opposing teams had two Stamina Necromancers, which lead to AOE Major Defile being everywhere. In most of the engagements that game, my Resistant Flesh (a "burst" heal akin to Templar's Honor the Dead/Breath of Life) was mostly healing for 2.2k. Given that Stamina-Blastbones alone frequently hits for 6k+, my healing was basically worthless.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
They are already healing to full this patch with ease. Next patch they will have 10% more healing and 20-30% more regen on their primary resources.
We need things that hurt tanks relentlessly.
Magicka builds have a better assortment of healing than any stam build...
Also, look at how PVP is right now. People are 0 to 100 in seconds and it’s honestly insane. It is just going to be worse now. I like to play small scale or alone but feel more and more forced to play with a larger group to even be able to tank down these damage tanks...
Wut? Talking self heals here, right? Vigor + Rally is top notch healing. Throw some blocking or dodging in the mix. Tanks go with health scaling heals anyway. Usually it's magicka who has to pray that their healing stick heal really goes to them and not to some random 28m away. Some class heals don't even scale with any resource at all. Just because you have more option doesn't mean you have a "better" assortment.
Rapid regen plus class heals are the same thing but you can use it on teammates, and use a special weapon that give you quite a bit of the cost back on it.
It's also worth pointing out that Magicka has to deal with the game's "smart" targeting, which is often anything but what it's namesake implies. I have literally had a teammate die in front of me as my first two Rapid Regen casts hit the other two teammates who were standing behind me and *not* engaged in combat. And plenty of times when I needed the heal myself, it'd go to a snipe spammer on my team that was at 95% hp and not taking any heat. I've also died plenty of times because I was trying to reposition and spam heal myself in the process, but another teammate with better mobility got in front of me; it's not realistic to face away from everyone else for every cast that's needed on yourself.
In the past I was able to somewhat get around that issue by using Renewing Undeath for a heal, which I think was very much underrated. But after the healing nerf, it's a fart in a hurricane (so is Resistant Flesh, but it's at least slightly more gassy).
Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions0 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.
Healing is horrible this patch compared to all of the previous patches combined. In context of BGs, people are dying just fine and dying more than ever.
As for 30k health block tank, there has never been a time in this game where they were killable by 1 DPS even with all damage sets. This is not a problem that will be solved by increasing defiles back to 30% as that has been tried many times in the past, and all it does it destroy playstyles that are not 30k block tanks.
The solution is not to buff defiles, the solution is to adjust high HP builds with tons of health regen and passive healing such that they have less incentive to stack health. There are many solutions to this (CP adjustment being a prime one), but I don't think ZOS really cares about this problem or they would have already fixed it.Edited by likecats on October 14, 2020 5:50PM6 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Your numbers aren't reflecting my experience, unless maybe we're talking about the Matriarch heal. Plus Stamina has never been as reliant on pure healing as Magicka builds are. Being able to do a whole heck of a lot more dodge rolling makes a big difference. Not to mention the reduced GCD usage.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)
We don't need to utterly ruin almost all Magicka builds in BGs - which are already decidedly inferior to Stamina builds in the vast majority of cases, and have been for years - just to counter people running the stupid tank builds in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil and/or IC. Especially since not everyone will be getting access to Major Defile in the next few weeks, when the DLC drops.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.3 -
Atherakhia✭✭✭✭Trying to paint the picture that stamina classes are being harmed in some way due to their lack of heals doesn't reflect reality. This is literally Elder Stamina Online where the worst stamina is still better than nearly every mag but Sorc? Certainly no where near as bad as the worst mag in the game. Healing is still quite ridiculous in this game and a lack of stamina heals does not seem to be holding back stamina in any way, shape, or form at the moment. In fact, stamina heals has the opposite effect and is one of the leading reasons why DW is considered so inferior to 2H. If rally wasn't a burst heal, you'd probably see far more DW players out there.
Now that all said, and as I said before, some of the nerfs we're seeing in this patch are simply too heavy handed. Major Defile's main problem has always been the simple fact that it's attached to a ranged, AE, spammable skill and not necessarily its strength. BBB should have never been given major defile and major defile should certainly be more powerful than it currently is. The same is true for Major Protection, Major Mending, and Major Vuln. These skills have been nerfed so hard they're almost trivial in nature now and certainly don't warrant the numerous other things that have been used to keep them balanced. Things like high ability cost, short duration, etc. Either these types of skills should be a noticeable and impactful part of gameplay, or they should have trivial costs associated with their trivial effects.1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only specs that go from 0-100 with their own skills are warden with Arctic blast or WW with an even more broken version of an HP scaling heal.
By my calculations, Arctic Blast burst heals roughly 13 to 14% of my max health on a standard cast in PVP.
(30,000 health, initial heal in pvp 4-5k. 50,000 health, initial heal 6-7k)
Arctic Blast doesnt only have a great heal....its such an overloaded skill its ridiculous. Warden and Necro both have a plethura of overloaded skills even after ZOS announced that they would nerf and adjust every skill that was overloaded with stuff, but their p2w classes wierdly kept all their OL skills and even got a few new ones... $$
Arctic blast is not "such an overloaded skill its ridiculous". It has three effects...heal, damage, stun. Green Dragon Blood has four, heal, major endurance, major fortitude, minor vitality. So it is not even tops in health-based heal category.
What Arctic Blast has are effects that are more valuable in the current meta than other effects. The damage is garbage, the CC is poor, but right now health-based heals are the meta. When the meta shifts, it won't be worth casting.
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
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Your numbers aren't reflecting my experience, unless maybe we're talking about the Matriarch heal. Plus Stamina has never been as reliant on pure healing as Magicka builds are. Being able to do a whole heck of a lot more dodge rolling makes a big difference. Not to mention the reduced GCD usage.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)
We don't need to utterly ruin almost all Magicka builds in BGs - which are already decidedly inferior to Stamina builds in the vast majority of cases, and have been for years - just to counter people running the stupid tank builds in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil and/or IC. Especially since not everyone will be getting access to Major Defile in the next few weeks, when the DLC drops.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.
Mag builds have shields, a lot of snare immobile moviability moves (most, streak, wings, talons, etc) rapid regen). What hurts everybody is that everybody is a 30 health tank that do a bit of damage. That is not a benchmark for any game in terms of balance. This meta only helps enforce lower skilled players to play in bigger groups which cause more lag which then... you get the idea.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions0 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Your numbers aren't reflecting my experience, unless maybe we're talking about the Matriarch heal. Plus Stamina has never been as reliant on pure healing as Magicka builds are. Being able to do a whole heck of a lot more dodge rolling makes a big difference. Not to mention the reduced GCD usage.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)
We don't need to utterly ruin almost all Magicka builds in BGs - which are already decidedly inferior to Stamina builds in the vast majority of cases, and have been for years - just to counter people running the stupid tank builds in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil and/or IC. Especially since not everyone will be getting access to Major Defile in the next few weeks, when the DLC drops.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.
Mag builds have shields, a lot of snare immobile moviability moves (most, streak, wings, talons, etc) rapid regen). What hurts everybody is that everybody is a 30 health tank that do a bit of damage. That is not a benchmark for any game in terms of balance. This meta only helps enforce lower skilled players to play in bigger groups which cause more lag which then... you get the idea.
You guys keep going back and forth about mag and stam heals and tankiness when this all is from people being able to stack health and heals and proc for damage. You dont need mag or stam other than for budget to activate health based heals. Defiles do nothing for the vast majority of classes that have no access2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭techyeshic wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Your numbers aren't reflecting my experience, unless maybe we're talking about the Matriarch heal. Plus Stamina has never been as reliant on pure healing as Magicka builds are. Being able to do a whole heck of a lot more dodge rolling makes a big difference. Not to mention the reduced GCD usage.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)
We don't need to utterly ruin almost all Magicka builds in BGs - which are already decidedly inferior to Stamina builds in the vast majority of cases, and have been for years - just to counter people running the stupid tank builds in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil and/or IC. Especially since not everyone will be getting access to Major Defile in the next few weeks, when the DLC drops.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.
Mag builds have shields, a lot of snare immobile moviability moves (most, streak, wings, talons, etc) rapid regen). What hurts everybody is that everybody is a 30 health tank that do a bit of damage. That is not a benchmark for any game in terms of balance. This meta only helps enforce lower skilled players to play in bigger groups which cause more lag which then... you get the idea.
You guys keep going back and forth about mag and stam heals and tankiness when this all is from people being able to stack health and heals and proc for damage. You dont need mag or stam other than for budget to activate health based heals. Defiles do nothing for the vast majority of classes that have no access
Correct. It’s honestly just detracting from the main point which is too good of heals with too high of health plus procs for damage and no counter = broken game.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions0 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Your numbers aren't reflecting my experience, unless maybe we're talking about the Matriarch heal. Plus Stamina has never been as reliant on pure healing as Magicka builds are. Being able to do a whole heck of a lot more dodge rolling makes a big difference. Not to mention the reduced GCD usage.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)
We don't need to utterly ruin almost all Magicka builds in BGs - which are already decidedly inferior to Stamina builds in the vast majority of cases, and have been for years - just to counter people running the stupid tank builds in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil and/or IC. Especially since not everyone will be getting access to Major Defile in the next few weeks, when the DLC drops.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.
Mag builds have shields, a lot of snare immobile moviability moves (most, streak, wings, talons, etc) rapid regen). What hurts everybody is that everybody is a 30 health tank that do a bit of damage. That is not a benchmark for any game in terms of balance. This meta only helps enforce lower skilled players to play in bigger groups which cause more lag which then... you get the idea.
You guys keep going back and forth about mag and stam heals and tankiness when this all is from people being able to stack health and heals and proc for damage. You dont need mag or stam other than for budget to activate health based heals. Defiles do nothing for the vast majority of classes that have no access
Correct. It’s honestly just detracting from the main point which is too good of heals with too high of health plus procs for damage and no counter = broken game.
Yep. And adding strong debuffs would just help the specific classes that have access to run procs because they dont scale.1 -
Vizirith✭✭✭✭Defiles are way too prevalent, you can't balance healing while factoring that in because then if you don't have mending or vitality you stand much less pf a chance. 100% uptime on minor/major defile when nobody outside of templars can have even 100% uptime on minor mending is absurd.
With both major and minor defile you have .55 healing received. That's 22% of the healing without battlespirit.
With 77 points into the befoul passive (increasing efficacy of healing reduction abilities) you get a 33.08% increase. With both major and minor defile you'd have .4 healing received. That's 16% of the healing without battlespirit.
That is quite potent against a class without great healing.
EDIT: Live not pts
PTS: With both defiles .76 healing received. With both defiles and 33% befoul cp: .68 healing received.
Edited by Vizirith on October 15, 2020 6:30PM1 -
Atherakhia✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Your numbers aren't reflecting my experience, unless maybe we're talking about the Matriarch heal. Plus Stamina has never been as reliant on pure healing as Magicka builds are. Being able to do a whole heck of a lot more dodge rolling makes a big difference. Not to mention the reduced GCD usage.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)
We don't need to utterly ruin almost all Magicka builds in BGs - which are already decidedly inferior to Stamina builds in the vast majority of cases, and have been for years - just to counter people running the stupid tank builds in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil and/or IC. Especially since not everyone will be getting access to Major Defile in the next few weeks, when the DLC drops.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.
Mag builds have shields, a lot of snare immobile moviability moves (most, streak, wings, talons, etc) rapid regen). What hurts everybody is that everybody is a 30 health tank that do a bit of damage. That is not a benchmark for any game in terms of balance. This meta only helps enforce lower skilled players to play in bigger groups which cause more lag which then... you get the idea.
You guys keep going back and forth about mag and stam heals and tankiness when this all is from people being able to stack health and heals and proc for damage. You dont need mag or stam other than for budget to activate health based heals. Defiles do nothing for the vast majority of classes that have no access
I disagree. Procs have been a relatively new thing that weren't as prevalent prior to Malacath being introduced. The tanking meta was certainly here for awhile, but that was toned down slightly the patch before Malacath iirc. However, one thing that has been constant for the past year (my only frame of reference since I've only been playing a year) is that Stamina has reigned supreme with only MagSorc being the consistent exception to that rule. Which ties back into my earlier remark about people complaining that stamina heals are somehow at a disadvantage to mag or that mag defenses are some how effective. Clearly they're not or Mag wouldn't be obsolete. Fact is CC is very prevelant, and not just soft CC like snares, but hard CCs like roots and stuns which necessitate the use of breaking free or roll dodging. On top of this, the only real defensive mechanics that do work in PvP are roll dodges and blocking as shields are short duration, weak, and cost a GCD. So the only real dependable/reliable forms of defense in this game are all stamina heavy. So I wholeheartedly disagree with the premise that stamina is at any disadvantage whatsoever and I have a hard time blaming proc sets for all of PvPs woes, especially when the majority of offending proc sets are stamina too.
But solving all of PvPs woes really isn't the reason this thread got started. It's centered on how heavy handed some of the major buff/debuff nerfs have been.2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭techyeshic wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Your numbers aren't reflecting my experience, unless maybe we're talking about the Matriarch heal. Plus Stamina has never been as reliant on pure healing as Magicka builds are. Being able to do a whole heck of a lot more dodge rolling makes a big difference. Not to mention the reduced GCD usage.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)
We don't need to utterly ruin almost all Magicka builds in BGs - which are already decidedly inferior to Stamina builds in the vast majority of cases, and have been for years - just to counter people running the stupid tank builds in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil and/or IC. Especially since not everyone will be getting access to Major Defile in the next few weeks, when the DLC drops.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.
Mag builds have shields, a lot of snare immobile moviability moves (most, streak, wings, talons, etc) rapid regen). What hurts everybody is that everybody is a 30 health tank that do a bit of damage. That is not a benchmark for any game in terms of balance. This meta only helps enforce lower skilled players to play in bigger groups which cause more lag which then... you get the idea.
You guys keep going back and forth about mag and stam heals and tankiness when this all is from people being able to stack health and heals and proc for damage. You dont need mag or stam other than for budget to activate health based heals. Defiles do nothing for the vast majority of classes that have no access
Correct. It’s honestly just detracting from the main point which is too good of heals with too high of health plus procs for damage and no counter = broken game.
Yep. And adding strong debuffs would just help the specific classes that have access to run procs because they dont scale.
Make it scale with stat damage somehow, like procs should.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
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Vizirith✭✭✭✭Atherakhia wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Your numbers aren't reflecting my experience, unless maybe we're talking about the Matriarch heal. Plus Stamina has never been as reliant on pure healing as Magicka builds are. Being able to do a whole heck of a lot more dodge rolling makes a big difference. Not to mention the reduced GCD usage.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Rally takes 14-20 seconds to gain any meaningful traction when one mag move might due 20% less at its max. They are both very strong heals which is why I am advocating for better ways to remove some extra healing (rather than keeping healing nerfed which hurts the worse off players more consistently)
We don't need to utterly ruin almost all Magicka builds in BGs - which are already decidedly inferior to Stamina builds in the vast majority of cases, and have been for years - just to counter people running the stupid tank builds in CP-Enabled Cyrodiil and/or IC. Especially since not everyone will be getting access to Major Defile in the next few weeks, when the DLC drops.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Jeez? Can we have any update on the fact that people are going to be Even tankier next patch? Like what in the world? I don’t know what to say, there isn’t a counter to a 30k health block tank with damage sets on. I’m sorry there isn’t.
Mag builds have shields, a lot of snare immobile moviability moves (most, streak, wings, talons, etc) rapid regen). What hurts everybody is that everybody is a 30 health tank that do a bit of damage. That is not a benchmark for any game in terms of balance. This meta only helps enforce lower skilled players to play in bigger groups which cause more lag which then... you get the idea.
You guys keep going back and forth about mag and stam heals and tankiness when this all is from people being able to stack health and heals and proc for damage. You dont need mag or stam other than for budget to activate health based heals. Defiles do nothing for the vast majority of classes that have no access
I disagree. Procs have been a relatively new thing that weren't as prevalent prior to Malacath being introduced. The tanking meta was certainly here for awhile, but that was toned down slightly the patch before Malacath iirc. However, one thing that has been constant for the past year (my only frame of reference since I've only been playing a year) is that Stamina has reigned supreme with only MagSorc being the consistent exception to that rule. Which ties back into my earlier remark about people complaining that stamina heals are somehow at a disadvantage to mag or that mag defenses are some how effective. Clearly they're not or Mag wouldn't be obsolete. Fact is CC is very prevelant, and not just soft CC like snares, but hard CCs like roots and stuns which necessitate the use of breaking free or roll dodging. On top of this, the only real defensive mechanics that do work in PvP are roll dodges and blocking as shields are short duration, weak, and cost a GCD. So the only real dependable/reliable forms of defense in this game are all stamina heavy. So I wholeheartedly disagree with the premise that stamina is at any disadvantage whatsoever and I have a hard time blaming proc sets for all of PvPs woes, especially when the majority of offending proc sets are stamina too.
But solving all of PvPs woes really isn't the reason this thread got started. It's centered on how heavy handed some of the major buff/debuff nerfs have been.
I don't disagree with the malacath issue. But as far as the minor/major buff/debuff changes, they were necessary. For balance you either need to have powerful buffs/debuffs with low uptime/high sacrifice or weaker buffs/debuffs with high uptime/low sacrifice. Major defile having 100% uptime with no sacrifice meant that it quite honestly was over powered, either the buff itself needed to be tuned down, the uptime reduced or required sacrifice to obtain.
Take major resolve and major breach. Both are pretty powerful but counter each other and they both are quite prevalent. Major berserk (25% damage done) with unchained aggressor (Major berserk for 6 secs after breaking free with a 16 sec cd) wasn't deemed too powerful because uptime was still low enough. Healing buffs are far less prevalent than defile debuffs.
A heavy armor, stamDK using GDB (Major Mending + Minor Vitality + 12% healing received DK passive + 8% healing received Heavy Armor passive) would amount to 160% self healing, the highest in the game. When tagged with just minor and major defile it comes to 88% self healing, and that'd only be if you keep Frag Shield up 100% of the time which you'd need 1620 mag recovery to do... on a StamDK, while using no other magicka abilities like volatile armor, with volatile armor it'd be 1890 mag recovery.
*LIVE*With both defiles applied and counting class passives/skills for self healing (no-cp into befoul or healing cp):
*Not counting full resto heavy attacks granting major mending as uptime would be quite low
*Not counting Combat Medic passive (20% healing done when near a keep) as how exactly do you balance around that
*Not using Heavy Armor
MagDK (LA,noGDB): 62% self healing
Templar: 59% (presuming 100% uptime on minor mending passive)
Warden: 69% (presuming 1 green balance skill on a bar and 100% uptime on major mending (healing an ally under 40% grants major mending for 3 secs)
Nightblade: 57% (presuming 1 siphoning skill on the bar)
Necromancer: 61% (presuming 1 bone tyrant skill on the bar= 2% healing received, negative effect on you= 8% healing done)
Sorcerer: 55% no healing passives1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Any update on the absurd amount of healing this patch? And the fact it’s worse next patch with no counter?
Here the update:
Healing sucks. S-U-C-K-S. Or at least it does for everyone who isn't a high health werewolf.
In the past 6 months, I ran my magplar in no CP a grand total of one time. Got into a fight with someone using 4 proc sets (yes four, blackrose bow, azureblight, venomous smite, Sellitrix) and holy ***, I've never seen such a disparity in power from what my "healer" class skills could do relative to those 4 proc sets that my opponent could effortlessly use spamming bow attacks for 40 meters.
Burst heal for 4.5K? LOL. And you're complaining about healing being OP and want defiles to be stronger & accessible to every class? Is this a joke?
There was a grand total of one healing spell in the past 5 years in ESO that needed adjustment because of its potential for abuse: the "standardized" version of Rapid Regeneration. That's it. And to be honest, it was not that big of a problem when used be a single person, rather when a group of 24 could cover everyone with just 4 casts is what made it powerful.
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That balance rollercoaster makes me tired, playing ESO is more frustrating than fun now...Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2
