I am fine if they change crits IF they buff Khajiit and nerf Malacath by at least the same amount.

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

We feel that crits, percentage chance, casting skills, using la, fluid gameplay, ability to block while sprinting, playing with friends in bgs, playing alone in cyrodiil, cp, animations, housing, trade guilds and logging in are causing major server lag. So instead of using our product we would like you to just by crates, understand that you didn't when anything and buy more.

Please if your MMO can't handle a random number generator, I'm sorry there is a problem with your coding.

If they would just ease up a couple million on the CEO bonus checks this quarter they could upgrade the server hardware to satisfy demand and not have to erase 6 years of game design just to avoid spending a little of the massive profits they have made from all the increased player base.

They are more likely to turn the game into a turn-based rpg than to invest in servers or good developers. lmao

Shantu wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Wow. People need to relax.

We get angry at them when they don't provide dev comments to explain their reasoning and when they do everyone *** on them for it.

They're probably referring to the fact that in pve you don't even need to build for crit and any build can get 50%+ which is a combination of Armor, CP, Minor/Major Buffs, etc.

They want your choices to mean something, so I'm willing to bet they're just going to move some of those bonuses to armor instead.

^^This^^

Is it any wonder devs tend to turn a deaf ear to feedback? We don't even know what exactly "a larger pass on Critical Strike sourcing" will be, nor it's impact, if any, on the game. Heck, it might even end up being something quite good. Instead we jump into the deep end of cynicism making all kinds presumptions we know nothing about.

I'm not a big fan of MANY things they've chosen to do, but wild, biting conjecture like this only further alienates everyone involved. People need to just chill...or go find something more enjoyable to do. But something tells me the opportunity to dump negativity takes on a life of its own around here.

Sure we may have caught on strongly to speculation, but if we're wrong the Devs should enjoy a laugh. If we're right, we should all be concerned. It's not like most of us are coming out of nowhere. These people have a history performance wise, 'balance' wise, communication wise... Why should they hide from thinking publicly, to cloak and dagger assassinate the game? Either way thanks to the lack of communication sometimes, you can't help but make assumptions.

If anything this would be a hypothetical constructive discussion on gameplay, where most of us are like, "Yes, this would be a turd slung to stone the game. Let's not go this direction."

The fact you guys are getting defensive is a bit odd and concerning. You treat the Devs like children, who you can't honestly tell that they're painting less than attractive portraits all over your clean white walls, so you praise them instead... Naw, they should have the gumption and expertise to come out here and win discussions on the regular. If they're right their right, if their less than right they'll find out. Unless their forced to follow shady practices...

Dev comments are nice for the community to catch, so we can talk about them. What would be better is a Dev discussion. I don't think I've seen a Dev go back and forth with someone on the forums and iron things out in writing. I've seen one guy in a discord and he wasn't the best representative, and it wasn't the most important topic.

Pinja wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Wow. People need to relax.

We get angry at them when they don't provide dev comments to explain their reasoning and when they do everyone *** on them for it.

They're probably referring to the fact that in pve you don't even need to build for crit and any build can get 50%+ which is a combination of Armor, CP, Minor/Major Buffs, etc.

They want your choices to mean something, so I'm willing to bet they're just going to move some of those bonuses to armor instead.

^^This^^

Is it any wonder devs tend to turn a deaf ear to feedback? We don't even know what exactly "a larger pass on Critical Strike sourcing" will be, nor it's impact, if any, on the game. Heck, it might even end up being something quite good. Instead we jump into the deep end of cynicism making all kinds presumptions we know nothing about.

I'm not a big fan of MANY things they've chosen to do, but wild, biting conjecture like this only further alienates everyone involved. People need to just chill...or go find something more enjoyable to do. But something tells me the opportunity to dump negativity takes on a life of its own around here.

Sure we may have caught on strongly to speculation, but if we're wrong the Devs should enjoy a laugh. If we're right, we should all be concerned. It's not like most of us are coming out of nowhere. These people have a history performance wise, 'balance' wise, communication wise... Why should they hide from thinking publicly, to cloak and dagger assassinate the game? Either way thanks to the lack of communication sometimes, you can't help but make assumptions.

If anything this would be a hypothetical constructive discussion on gameplay, where most of us are like, "Yes, this would be a turd slung to stone the game. Let's not go this direction."

The fact you guys are getting defensive is a bit odd and concerning. You treat the Devs like children, who you can't honestly tell that they're painting less than attractive portraits all over your clean white walls, so you praise them instead... Naw, they should have the gumption and expertise to come out here and win discussions on the regular. If they're right their right, if their less than right they'll find out. Unless their forced to follow shady practices...

Dev comments are nice for the community to catch, so we can talk about them. What would be better is a Dev discussion. I don't think I've seen a Dev go back and forth with someone on the forums and iron things out in writing. I've seen one guy in a discord and he wasn't the best representative, and it wasn't the most important topic.

And yet, dev commentary is so unlikely to happen so why live in a fantasy? Critizing them when they've bad changes is "fine". I dont doubt that some changes made could very well not even be in their control with those over their heads pulling some of the strings but at the end of the day bad changes are bad. Of course. But what legitimate sense does it make to attack and berate someone for something they literally haven't done yet. What is constructive about that. Assumptions are bad for a reason.

At the end of the day, if ESO screws up their game and loses all of their players over their actions, that's up to them, not you or anyone else. There are other games out there.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

AMeanOne wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Can we please stop smashing the entire game for everyone with a lurch hammer just because a few guys in PVP have a "meta?"

Crit is not meta in pvp. Its meta in pve. This is a pve change.

I'm not so sure. Crit Resistance is meta in PvP, and the reason is that even the base level Crit people get without building for it is enough to be devastating against someone without resistance. The net result is that Crit builds are nonviable in PvP only because everyone is already building for Crit resistance.

Based on ZOS's description of the problem, my take is the this is what they want to address, not the fact that Crit is the PvE meta (although I would be happy if they addressed both).

In PvP random burst damage is always the first thing that people want to negate (because you cannot control/plan for it and what you cannot control/plan for kills you in PvP), doesn't matter what they do to crit, in PvP people will always run just enough to generally negate it.

You can have crit builds in PvP that are decent btw, but it is mostly just ganking builds, and nothing will change that, I think.

People will build towards whatever does the most damage. That often means building into crit. This is why pve DDs run 7 medium or 5 light armour pieces, use daggers and not swords, run precise weapons on mag dds (penetration more valuable than crit on live for stam), drink expensive potions with crit bonuses on cool down, run every crit damage buff available (minor and major force, the shadow, cp into diminishing returns), optimise group composition to get minor crit buffs and generally run sets with crit bonuses (even a rele/lokke setup has three crit bonuses on it, false god and relequen are arguably crit sets and siroria is almost always paired with mothers sorrow).

If there’s a plan to rebalance crit then sure, go ahead and do that. Let’s not pretend that people aren’t building into crit though. All pve damage builds are heavily optimised into crit to achieve the numbers that we see on live.

In seriousness I appreciate the dev feedback, I am curious what they will do.

Hopefully format crit in a less RnG delivery, it's a bit annoying parsing 10 times with bad luck and it making a ~5% difference which on a 90k parse is 4.5k.

Hopefully without making a lot of content too annoying to do by lowering dps amount, vKA HM Last Boss as an example is already a boring AF fight without an optimized group.

If they are to balance crit in a way to give options to other build types in both PvE and PvP (so crit builds are more viable), honestly, they would need to rework many other things as well almost to the point of overhauling it.

Mettaricana wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

In seriousness I appreciate the dev feedback, I am curious what they will do.

Hopefully format crit in a less RnG delivery, it's a bit annoying parsing 10 times with bad luck and it making a ~5% difference which on a 90k parse is 4.5k.

Hopefully without making a lot of content too annoying to do by lowering dps amount, vKA HM Last Boss as an example is already a boring AF fight without an optimized group.

If they are to balance crit in a way to give options to other build types in both PvE and PvP (so crit builds are more viable), honestly, they would need to rework many other things as well almost to the point of overhauling it.

Cutting down crit if done right could be good if they gave all skills a comparable buff to compensate the lower crit and tweaked crit sources say halfing savagery and its magicka counterpart and hammering crit down to be a nice bonus hit of damage rather than an entire gated way of life we would see a huge upsurge in build diversity so many fun sets that lose out because they don't favor the crit meta since it wouldn't be the entire goal of the build glass cannon seems to be the pve meta.

Shifting the meta is nice and all but diversity is only achieved when no clear set is the winner when clearly the sets are hodgepodge at best ( mag specific ) For every class currently sorrow is winning, especially with catalyst, if you were to kill crit and use damage sets they're all severely lacking in their power and use case.

Succession only applies to Necro and DK and still doesn't hit orb.
Sun is even weaker than Succession.

SS only ST and is weak now.

Burning spellweave is even weaker unless the fight is 8 seconds.

Scathing mage is slightly better than spell weave even on non crit based classes ( bc everyone builds in it )

Siroria is good but a pain in the ass.

False god is pretty weak except sustain

Acuity is powerful in bursts but that's crit and for crit classes can even compete with sorrow now esp. if timed with specific mechanics ( soul harvest )

NMA got hit hard for mag since spell pen is lol in PvE.

Ysgramor Netch is not worth it and succ is stronger even if it were

War Maiden can be strong on a few classes but still not as good since it misses a few skills.

Mag sets are only useful in pvp, spell damage is stronger and easier to stack even moreso now that pets scale from it as well.

Their set balance was a miss.... so..

technohic wrote: »

Easy access to crits contradicts a new proc set meta.

But seriously. The game has enough problems. Do we really need to address the ones nobody is complaining about just yet?

I lost the count on how many times I have read the same. I bet a couple of them were written by you.

Seriously ZoS, stop fixing what's not broken (yet)

Are they talking about crit chance or crit damage?

If they’re talking about crit damage then this will be a buff to Nightblades for pvp and a nerf to Nightblades for pve.

I don’t think other classes should have easy access to crit chance and crit damage. If you guys think the 1 shot NB gank builds hits too hard then you’ve never encountered a Khajit necro running a crit damage build. “Blastbones hit me for 20k? What!?”.

ThePianist wrote: »

Are they talking about crit chance or crit damage?

If they’re talking about crit damage then this will be a buff to Nightblades for pvp and a nerf to Nightblades for pve.

I don’t think other classes should have easy access to crit chance and crit damage. If you guys think the 1 shot NB gank builds hits too hard then you’ve never encountered a Khajit necro running a crit damage build. “Blastbones hit me for 20k? What!?”.

crit chance.

The thing is that they changed some sets increasing the crit chance, then decided to decrease crit chance in general (probably because how high was the crit chance on those sets).

It was easier to not to add crit chance on those sets giving them a different effect.

Xvorg wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

Are they talking about crit chance or crit damage?

If they’re talking about crit damage then this will be a buff to Nightblades for pvp and a nerf to Nightblades for pve.

I don’t think other classes should have easy access to crit chance and crit damage. If you guys think the 1 shot NB gank builds hits too hard then you’ve never encountered a Khajit necro running a crit damage build. “Blastbones hit me for 20k? What!?”.

crit chance.

The thing is that they changed some sets increasing the crit chance, then decided to decrease crit chance in general (probably because how high was the crit chance on those sets).

It was easier to not to add crit chance on those sets giving them a different effect.

The thing is though, they specifically mentioned wanting to lower the amount of critical chance for those not specializing in it. By buffing those sets, Precise trait and Thief mundus (largely by small amounts too mind you), it could be inferred that their efforts to lower critical chance will be directed to anything else but those. You could almost think that those three options lean towards the aforementioned specializing since you can only wear so many item sets with given bonuses, can only have one Mundus and only a certain number of weapon enchants.

I know they're notorious for the buff nerf seesaw that was the DoT meta for one patch, but this is a bit different (ignoring the proc sets). In the same patch, they marginally buffed certain critical chance sources and specifically came out to say they're reevaluating critical chance in the future. It would be highly redundant to have buffed them now then nerf them later when said buffs aren't even that significant (outside of some kind epiphany level reevaluations with their spreadsheet standards happening).

My feelings on the passive sources of Critical Chance basically mirror my thoughts on CP-enabled PvP: that you're getting too many "free stats" and that that detracts from the importance of actually building your character through your choices of race, class, gear, and skills, aka the core building blocks of an RPG.

At 810 Champion Points, you are able to invest to at least 60% diminishing returns efficiency (and usually 80%+) in every damage-related star that is available to you. There are no trade-offs involved, you can literally take them all.

Once upon a time, choosing your individual stars might have been important but today we are talking about the difference between like 56 or 64 points or 2% on most stars... a trivial difference. I think that this is what ZOS will be attempting to fix with these changes.

Most of this is, of course, their own fault for creating so many fundamentally flawed systems. Players are rationally using the tools made available to them. But, in an ideal world, you are no longer going to receive 9% Critical Chance simply for logging in.

Some small changes to increase build diversity and impose actual opportunity costs on players:

• Re-balancing the relationships between Weapon/Spell Damage, Max Stats, and Critical Damage to make stacking any of them competitive for end-game DPS.
• CP tree without free perks (e.g. the Critical Chance perk for investing 30 CP, free Max Resources for simply accumulating CP) and with a much wider variety of stats to invest in (e.g. Weapon Damage star, Frost Damage star, Max Magicka star, etc.) and, most importantly, nowhere near enough points to invest in all of them.
• Armor types that aren't meant for specific roles (e.g. magDPS, stamDPS, tanking) but rather are oriented toward boosting specific stats (e.g. Light Armor gives Spell AND Physical Penetration, Medium Armor gives Weapon AND Spell Damage, Heavy Armor increases ALL Max Stats, etc.).
• Re-visiting class, race, and other skills to interact more with the above changes.
• Miscellaneous rationalizations such as the Nirnhoned trait scaling to 2H levels on Staves and Bows.

In any case, in a better world we could use those changes and have end-game Sorcerers in Heavy Armor (aka their true armor type from Elder Scrolls canon) and Nightblades in Light Armor tanking trials and everything in between.

Kadoin wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

In seriousness I appreciate the dev feedback, I am curious what they will do.

Hopefully format crit in a less RnG delivery, it's a bit annoying parsing 10 times with bad luck and it making a ~5% difference which on a 90k parse is 4.5k.

Hopefully without making a lot of content too annoying to do by lowering dps amount, vKA HM Last Boss as an example is already a boring AF fight without an optimized group.

If they are to balance crit in a way to give options to other build types in both PvE and PvP (so crit builds are more viable), honestly, they would need to rework many other things as well almost to the point of overhauling it.

At certain crit rate values it doesn't seem RNG and does seem quite predictable, almost as if the game is hard-coded to force consecutive crits after RNG deviates too much from crit value. I've actually been wondering if that is intended or not and if someone has found a way to best use this "feature"

While gaming RNGs are known to be of low quality (randomness of specific RNGs is a serious scientific topic), probabilities are often not well understood intuitively.

Let's say I have a crit chance of 70%. The probability to get no crit 4 times in a row is at 0.8%, this will be very rare. On the other hand, the probability to get 4 crits in a row is at 24%, wich is still pretty high and will happen frequently during combat.

As many of us know from refining and stuff, ESO RNG seems to cluster values (as if the server gives you the last dice roll again instead of creating a new random number). But I never got the impression that it gets 'overwritten' by high event probabilities.