Atherakhia wrote: »
KingShocker wrote: »disagree 100%. you're asking them to balance two different games, essentially.
pvp and pve ARE 2 different games
Atherakhia wrote: »
You see a "PvP" label, who just promote the fact than PvP gonna be available has it gonna be the main purpose ?
An Elder Scroll game "based" on PvP ? If you had thinking twice about it you'll have seen the trap :>
The thing that make this license (TES) have so many fan is the PvE and the Deep Lore aspect, PvP was just a bonus to catch people like you who love this kind of thing in mmorpg.
Look at New world who are doing the same thing but for PvE, obviously a PvP based game, but now they want to make some PvE to catch people who don't like PvP too.
It's just marketing dude.
Edit : Just so you don't get it wrong, both mod should be enjoyable. I won't speak about balance cuz it never happen in MMORPG, but performance should be way better. They're trying many thing to improve it now, we know it's a new team and they've to correct lot of error from the previous team, not an easy job.
Also, just ignore people who say thing like "remove X from the game" it's not like they'r contributing to anything.
Atherakhia wrote: »There's a reason not one MMO does this. It's because players don't want skills they have to behave one way in one game mechanic and a different way in another mechanic. I'm also not sure the problems with this game are at all PvP related. They're largely mechanical and a result of poor design.
With your example, what would you want the skill to do? Nothing but damage in PvP but knockback targets in PvE? Why? Your example isn't even relevant to the larger complaints people have with PvP.
Atherakhia wrote: »
Neither should be an afterthought. As much as I love PVP and hate PVE due to its repetitiveness we should never leave one behind. I will admit the Planetside 2 style PVP is what originally drew me into ESO alongside the Elder Scrolls brand, but to make PVE an afterthought is silly considering the IP's history and fan base.
Atherakhia wrote: »There's a reason not one MMO does this. It's because players don't want skills they have to behave one way in one game mechanic and a different way in another mechanic. I'm also not sure the problems with this game are at all PvP related. They're largely mechanical and a result of poor design.
With your example, what would you want the skill to do? Nothing but damage in PvP but knockback targets in PvE? Why? Your example isn't even relevant to the larger complaints people have with PvP.
Atherakhia wrote: »
You see a "PvP" label, who just promote the fact than PvP gonna be available has it gonna be the main purpose ?
An Elder Scroll game "based" on PvP ? If you had thinking twice about it you'll have seen the trap :>
The thing that make this license (TES) have so many fan is the PvE and the Deep Lore aspect, PvP was just a bonus to catch people like you who love this kind of thing in mmorpg.
Look at New world who are doing the same thing but for PvE, obviously a PvP based game, but now they want to make some PvE to catch people who don't like PvP too.
It's just marketing dude.
Edit : Just so you don't get it wrong, both mod should be enjoyable. I won't speak about balance cuz it never happen in MMORPG, but performance should be way better. They're trying many thing to improve it now, we know it's a new team and they've to correct lot of error from the previous team, not an easy job.
Also, just ignore people who say thing like "remove X from the game" it's not like they'r contributing to anything.
Kidgangster101 wrote: »Atherakhia wrote: »There's a reason not one MMO does this. It's because players don't want skills they have to behave one way in one game mechanic and a different way in another mechanic. I'm also not sure the problems with this game are at all PvP related. They're largely mechanical and a result of poor design.
With your example, what would you want the skill to do? Nothing but damage in PvP but knockback targets in PvE? Why? Your example isn't even relevant to the larger complaints people have with PvP.
You clearly don't play every game then if you don't think a game does not do this. In fact you are wrong!
Ff14 seperated skills in PVP and pve. When you are in pve your moves are the regular moves you level up with.
When you que into PVP they give you your best combos some buffs and a way to heal yourself (or others if your a healer). These PVP moves have different names even though they interact very similar. In fact some moves in the PVP version got buffs like maybe one move silences or stuns or binds where the pve version doesn't.
What does this do? If pve is over performing they Nerf pve version and LEAVE THE PVP VERSION ALONE! Same goes for PVP move being to strong/weak. They need/buff PVP version and LEAVE THE PVE VERSION ALONE!
It works amazing. You are just not used to a dev team that actually knows what they are doing. Just look at one skill (dizzy swing) it had 3 changes in 1 year........ It should have been changed once and moved on knowing the skill was good.
Atherakhia wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Atherakhia wrote: »There's a reason not one MMO does this. It's because players don't want skills they have to behave one way in one game mechanic and a different way in another mechanic. I'm also not sure the problems with this game are at all PvP related. They're largely mechanical and a result of poor design.
With your example, what would you want the skill to do? Nothing but damage in PvP but knockback targets in PvE? Why? Your example isn't even relevant to the larger complaints people have with PvP.
You clearly don't play every game then if you don't think a game does not do this. In fact you are wrong!
Ff14 seperated skills in PVP and pve. When you are in pve your moves are the regular moves you level up with.
When you que into PVP they give you your best combos some buffs and a way to heal yourself (or others if your a healer). These PVP moves have different names even though they interact very similar. In fact some moves in the PVP version got buffs like maybe one move silences or stuns or binds where the pve version doesn't.
What does this do? If pve is over performing they Nerf pve version and LEAVE THE PVP VERSION ALONE! Same goes for PVP move being to strong/weak. They need/buff PVP version and LEAVE THE PVE VERSION ALONE!
It works amazing. You are just not used to a dev team that actually knows what they are doing. Just look at one skill (dizzy swing) it had 3 changes in 1 year........ It should have been changed once and moved on knowing the skill was good.
I've never played FF14 so I'll take your word for it as what you've described above makes absolutely no sense to me. But the GW2 example above is wrong as the skills work the same and just do different damage or have different durations (granted I haven't played GW2 in like 5 years or more so maybe things have changed). WoW also does this with diminished returns in PvP.
Regardless, the point is simple. Skills need to work the same way across the game otherwise players will miss out the immersive feeling an MMO provides. To add further insult to injury, ESO is especially punitive when it comes to swapping things out between specs as the costs can get excessive. Thus the suggestion above about a third morph for skills will not work. Take Sorc for example, they need to swap a single skill for PvP and PvE and that will cost them 2k every time.
I'm also at a loss for why people feel this is even necessary here. Are people freaking out about the AE changes that are specifically being brought up, not for balance reasons, but server stability reasons? What do people want to behave differently here?
As I said above, when a player shoots a fireball, they expect it to shoot a fireball. The idea that people in this thread want players to shoot fireballs but this would cause you to plant a flower is not good for the game. And you may think this is being intentionally naive, but the only skill examples we've seen in this thread was someone saying a knockback should be a knockback in PvE but a stun in PvP ignoring the fact that knockbacks are stuns, no one's complaining about knockbacks, and this change would resolve nothing.
Kidgangster101 wrote: »People would miss out on the immersive feeling of a MMO if there were seperate moves for PVP and pve?
I didn't say you would need new morphs. It would just grant you the PVP version when in PVP area.
So for example you are doing pve content and are using the Templar heal move. Let's say they buff this move for pve to make it heal 4 people (like it used to be). So why did it get nerfed? It was way to strong in PVP. So now it will be the old heal everyone loved.
But when you que into PVP that move changes and becomes "healing wisdom" where maybe it gets a stronger heal to withstand PVP crazy damage but rather than healing 4 people it now heals you and one other person.
This wouldn't cost a skill Respec so no gold involved. This allows the devs to Nerf the heal potency if it is too op in PVP without it touching the move in pve........
That doesn't stop or affect anyone. It in facts helps balance the game to both players. That way you don't upset pve players because it's too op in PVP or vice versa.
Atherakhia wrote: »I'm also at a loss for why people feel this is even necessary here. Are people freaking out about the AE changes that are specifically being brought up, not for balance reasons, but server stability reasons? What do people want to behave differently here?
As I said above, when a player shoots a fireball, they expect it to shoot a fireball. The idea that people in this thread want players to shoot fireballs but this would cause you to plant a flower is not good for the game. And you may think this is being intentionally naive, but the only skill examples we've seen in this thread was someone saying a knockback should be a knockback in PvE but a stun in PvP ignoring the fact that knockbacks are stuns, no one's complaining about knockbacks, and this change would resolve nothing.
Atherakhia wrote: »There's a reason not one MMO does this. It's because players don't want skills they have to behave one way in one game mechanic and a different way in another mechanic. I'm also not sure the problems with this game are at all PvP related. They're largely mechanical and a result of poor design.
With your example, what would you want the skill to do? Nothing but damage in PvP but knockback targets in PvE? Why? Your example isn't even relevant to the larger complaints people have with PvP.