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Nightblade Executioner Passive - Massive Buff???

  • PandaPalace
    PandaPalace
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    All of mol, hof, as, cr, brp bosses have adds, 1800 with 1ms for any dmg now is to much, lower it below 200 tbh.
    Edited by PandaPalace on July 29, 2020 2:16PM
  • ketsparrowhawk
    ketsparrowhawk
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    Stop the psycho here, the NB do damage with some assa skils anyway, so it's not a buff ... It's something useless but I guess we will take a nerf next patch and the passive will return less than now.

    For the comment with the 10% mitigation loss, stop it too .... We loose it on tanking and gain 10% damage .. How many tank in PVE HL are NB .. A few ! How many players tanks with NB in dungeon VET .. A few.
    How many use NB has DPS .. A lot .... Stop talking about the minority please.
    And yes I'd love tank with my NB, but Hey ! The devs have spoken ...

    NB's basically don't get anything at all from this passive currently. Mobs/adds die to AOE.. If you're targeting them with single-target assassination abilities then you are doing it wrong. And even if you are killing them that way, then at best you're proccing this passive once per GCD.. and probably not even that much.

    Now you will get a resource return every time any mob near you dies. A boss summons a wave of 10 adds? Every single one of those adds will restore 1800 stam/mag to you when they die.. and all you have to do is have AOE on the ground and keep focusing the boss. Whereas currently on the live server, probably 0 of those adds will restore mag/stam to you because you're not targeting them with assassination abilities.. you're focusing the boss with those. It is absolutely a buff.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Langeston wrote: »
    I don't know that I'd say this is a "massive buff," hopefully it will just bring magblade up to par with the rest of the magicka classes as far as sustain is concerned.

    I have a Magsorc, magblade, and magden, (used to have a magplar) and in my experience magblade has the worst sustain out of all of them — and in most cases it isn't even really close. I haven't played magcro but just based on all the forum posts I've read it would appear that they have much better sustain, so the only class left is magDK (which I have heard isnt in the best spot in this regard, but I don't know.)

    PvE MagBlade has by far the best sustain of all classes. So you better be talking PvP otherwise at a complete loss for words here.

    Edited by Maulkin on July 29, 2020 2:13PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    Maulkin wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    I don't know that I'd say this is a "massive buff," hopefully it will just bring magblade up to par with the rest of the magicka classes as far as sustain is concerned.

    I have a Magsorc, magblade, and magden, (used to have a magplar) and in my experience magblade has the worst sustain out of all of them — and in most cases it isn't even really close. I haven't played magcro but just based on all the forum posts I've read it would appear that they have much better sustain, so the only class left is magDK (which I have heard isnt in the best spot in this regard, but I don't know.)

    PvE MagBlade has by far the best sustain of all classes. So you better be talking PvP otherwise at a complete loss for words here.

    Why would you quote me, go out of your way to delete the part of the quote where I specifically explained that:
    (This is coming from the perspective of PVP by the way, where magblades are bottom of the barrel — I don't play much PVE anymore, but from what I understand they're in a better spot there.)
    and then turn around and act like you don't know if I'm talking about PVP or PVE?
    X2aUKqN.png
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Langeston wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    I don't know that I'd say this is a "massive buff," hopefully it will just bring magblade up to par with the rest of the magicka classes as far as sustain is concerned.

    I have a Magsorc, magblade, and magden, (used to have a magplar) and in my experience magblade has the worst sustain out of all of them — and in most cases it isn't even really close. I haven't played magcro but just based on all the forum posts I've read it would appear that they have much better sustain, so the only class left is magDK (which I have heard isnt in the best spot in this regard, but I don't know.)

    PvE MagBlade has by far the best sustain of all classes. So you better be talking PvP otherwise at a complete loss for words here.

    Why would you quote me, go out of your way to delete the part of the quote where I specifically explained that:
    (This is coming from the perspective of PVP by the way, where magblades are bottom of the barrel — I don't play much PVE anymore, but from what I understand they're in a better spot there.)
    and then turn around and act like you don't know if I'm talking about PVP or PVE?
    X2aUKqN.png

    Cause that was only as far I had read. Sorry, my bad :|
    EU | PC | AD
  • ketsparrowhawk
    ketsparrowhawk
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    Finedaible wrote: »
    NB continuously and unjustly gets nerfed for over a year and now when it gets a marginal buff for fighting trash packs in PvE suddenly people start losing their damn minds. Calm down please, it is not going to make your op class any less relevant. Literally no main class has a reason to complain about this.

    lol nobody is losing their mind. I made this thread because I'm stoked!!
  • MudcrabAttack
    MudcrabAttack
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    I say let it happen. I think you're coming from a solo/small group perspective, and I see it as strong as well. But Nightblade has felt like the runt of the classes lately

    Lots of end game PVErs don't seem to care, PVPers seem ok with it.

    My only concern is if they suddenly change their mind and everyone is suddenly on a Nightblade just because it's the flavor of the month meta, then we'll be back to nerf hell, where the resource return is a fraction of where it once was before this change.
  • Celestro
    Celestro
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    I say let it happen. I think you're coming from a solo/small group perspective, and I see it as strong as well. But Nightblade has felt like the runt of the classes lately

    Lots of end game PVErs don't seem to care, PVPers seem ok with it.

    My only concern is if they suddenly change their mind and everyone is suddenly on a Nightblade just because it's the flavor of the month meta, then we'll be back to nerf hell, where the resource return is a fraction of where it once was before this change.

    Not gonna lie, I honestly thought this same thing because of Necro's Death Gleaning passive thats pretty similar and way less resource return.
  • Nagastani
    Nagastani
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    A buff to NB you say? Weird. I think maybe this was meant for something else like DK, because as a rule, we don't buff NBs - only nerf them.

    Clearly this was not intentional.
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Nightblade DPS already have good sustain in PvE. Other classes need a sustain buff far more.

    Also this sounds more fit for a Necromancer.
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    Langeston wrote: »
    A lot of people are discounting this, but as a sorc who definitely struggles with sustain, especially in trash fights since the orbs and shards etc are much less organized, this is just amazing: a free false god's or vicious ophidian. Really strong whenever there is trash to kill, which inclused some boss fights even.
    No, this is not "a free false god's or vicious ophidian" — it is roughly 1/4 of the 5 piece bonus on either of those sets. (In fact, it's 87% of 1/4 of the bonuses.)

    Executioner vs False God's/Vicious Serpent:
    EdMCqLa.png
    J2sZ96w.png
    POe3nc4.png

    The Sorcerer passive "Power Stone," on the other hand, is exactly the same as the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — i.e., Power Stone is "a free Akaviri Dragonguard."

    Power Stone vs Akaviri Dragonguard:
    IV4z6F8.png
    tJ02ATV.png

    I'm sure you're just as appalled as I am about how OP the Power Stone passive is, and the sorc skill line in general (for instance: sorcs have six passives related to health/stamina/magicka sustain while nightblades have two.) Please join me in asking that ZOS rectify this terrible oversight.

    (It probably goes without being said, but this is now a nerf sorc thread.)

    Excutioner does nit have a cool down, false gode/vicous seprent have 2 seconds cooldown. Is a lot better than false god/vicous serpent when fighting lots of adds.
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    Celestro wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    A lot of people are discounting this, but as a sorc who definitely struggles with sustain, especially in trash fights since the orbs and shards etc are much less organized, this is just amazing: a free false god's or vicious ophidian. Really strong whenever there is trash to kill, which inclused some boss fights even.
    No, this is not "a free false god's or vicious ophidian" — it is roughly 1/4 of the 5 piece bonus on either of those sets. (In fact, it's 87% of 1/4 of the bonuses.)

    Executioner vs False God's/Vicious Serpent:
    EdMCqLa.png
    J2sZ96w.png
    POe3nc4.png

    The Sorcerer passive "Power Stone," on the other hand, is exactly the same as the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — i.e., Power Stone is "a free Akaviri Dragonguard."

    Power Stone vs Akaviri Dragonguard:
    IV4z6F8.png
    tJ02ATV.png

    I'm sure you're just as appalled as I am about how OP the Power Stone passive is, and the sorc skill line in general (for instance: sorcs have six passives related to health/stamina/magicka sustain while nightblades have two.) Please join me in asking that ZOS rectify this terrible oversight.

    (It probably goes without being said, but this is now a nerf sorc thread.)

    You are aware that that same bonus is on the Potentates 3 piece bonus, so its more along those lines than a whole 5 piece, which for Akaviri is that coupled with 158 Health Recovery Zos recently added. Always thought that didn't make a lot of sense...
    Personally, I don't consider 158 health regen to be much of an improvement, but I know that's subjective. In any case, as it stands right now on the Live server, Power Stone is identical to the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard.
    Also, the amount of effective Ultimate generation of that passive grants is less than that of the Nightblade's. I don't exactly see the issue.
    You're kind of proving the point I was trying to make here, which is that saying "but that's a 5 piece bonus" is pretty meaningless without context.
    And six passives? There's Unholy Knowledge, Persistence, Rebate, Daedric Protection and Capacitor. Unless you're lumping Power Stone in there as well, which isn't include in your statement of passives that relate to health/stamina/magicka.
    Blood Magic: When you hit an enemy with a directly applied Dark Magic ability, you heal for 874. This effect scales off your Maximum Health and can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
    I would direct that dismay towards Necro either way.
    But the person I was responding to doesn't main a Necro. I think you missed the point of my entire post: I wasn't seriously trying to make this a nerf sorc thread, (although they're indisputably OP AF compared to magblade in PVP) I was trying to point out that I could make the same arguments about his class. I didn't say they're particularly good arguments — in fact, they're pretty myopic in my opinion. For instance, in PVP my magsorc can sustain with much less mag regen than my magblade can. I don't complain about the magsorc's sustain though, I complain about the magblade.
  • Celestro
    Celestro
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    Langeston wrote: »
    Celestro wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    A lot of people are discounting this, but as a sorc who definitely struggles with sustain, especially in trash fights since the orbs and shards etc are much less organized, this is just amazing: a free false god's or vicious ophidian. Really strong whenever there is trash to kill, which inclused some boss fights even.
    No, this is not "a free false god's or vicious ophidian" — it is roughly 1/4 of the 5 piece bonus on either of those sets. (In fact, it's 87% of 1/4 of the bonuses.)

    Executioner vs False God's/Vicious Serpent:
    EdMCqLa.png
    J2sZ96w.png
    POe3nc4.png

    The Sorcerer passive "Power Stone," on the other hand, is exactly the same as the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — i.e., Power Stone is "a free Akaviri Dragonguard."

    Power Stone vs Akaviri Dragonguard:
    IV4z6F8.png
    tJ02ATV.png

    I'm sure you're just as appalled as I am about how OP the Power Stone passive is, and the sorc skill line in general (for instance: sorcs have six passives related to health/stamina/magicka sustain while nightblades have two.) Please join me in asking that ZOS rectify this terrible oversight.

    (It probably goes without being said, but this is now a nerf sorc thread.)

    You are aware that that same bonus is on the Potentates 3 piece bonus, so its more along those lines than a whole 5 piece, which for Akaviri is that coupled with 158 Health Recovery Zos recently added. Always thought that didn't make a lot of sense...
    Personally, I don't consider 158 health regen to be much of an improvement, but I know that's subjective. In any case, as it stands right now on the Live server, Power Stone is identical to the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard.
    Also, the amount of effective Ultimate generation of that passive grants is less than that of the Nightblade's. I don't exactly see the issue.
    You're kind of proving the point I was trying to make here, which is that saying "but that's a 5 piece bonus" is pretty meaningless without context.
    And six passives? There's Unholy Knowledge, Persistence, Rebate, Daedric Protection and Capacitor. Unless you're lumping Power Stone in there as well, which isn't include in your statement of passives that relate to health/stamina/magicka.
    Blood Magic: When you hit an enemy with a directly applied Dark Magic ability, you heal for 874. This effect scales off your Maximum Health and can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
    I would direct that dismay towards Necro either way.
    But the person I was responding to doesn't main a Necro. I think you missed the point of my entire post: I wasn't seriously trying to make this a nerf sorc thread, (although they're indisputably OP AF compared to magblade in PVP) I was trying to point out that I could make the same arguments about his class. I didn't say they're particularly good arguments — in fact, they're pretty myopic in my opinion. For instance, in PVP my magsorc can sustain with much less mag regen than my magblade can. I don't complain about the magsorc's sustain though, I complain about the magblade.

    Whether it is 158 Health Recovery or 1477 Max Health or whichever bonus you would prefer, that stands to reason its 5 piece bonus isn't significant enough to merit being an actual 5 piece bonus. If you want to ignore Potentantes, which is also on the Live server, that's fine. Doesn't change the facts.

    No idea what you're saying on the ultimate front exactly to be honest. You complained its overpowered but Nightblade's have more ultimate generation is all I was getting at.

    Fair on Blood Magic. The "sustain" aspect threw me from "healing" which are essentially the same with restoring a resource. Not that using Health is a frequent action made but sure.

    And I wasn't responding in accordance with nerfing sorc. Using any example for comparison when there's a worse off example doesn't make sense regardless if you intended for them to be good arguments or not.
  • Drdeath20
    Drdeath20
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    I havent even bothered loggin on either of my templars the last couple months. My magblade was the best all around pve damage dealer while my magdk is just a super easy rotation.

    I cant wait for my already op magblade to get buffed to god mode but am very dissapointed that the developers refuse true balance and instead want a rotating wheel of meta from patch to patch.
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    Celestro wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    Celestro wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    A lot of people are discounting this, but as a sorc who definitely struggles with sustain, especially in trash fights since the orbs and shards etc are much less organized, this is just amazing: a free false god's or vicious ophidian. Really strong whenever there is trash to kill, which inclused some boss fights even.
    No, this is not "a free false god's or vicious ophidian" — it is roughly 1/4 of the 5 piece bonus on either of those sets. (In fact, it's 87% of 1/4 of the bonuses.)

    Executioner vs False God's/Vicious Serpent:
    EdMCqLa.png
    J2sZ96w.png
    POe3nc4.png

    The Sorcerer passive "Power Stone," on the other hand, is exactly the same as the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — i.e., Power Stone is "a free Akaviri Dragonguard."

    Power Stone vs Akaviri Dragonguard:
    IV4z6F8.png
    tJ02ATV.png

    I'm sure you're just as appalled as I am about how OP the Power Stone passive is, and the sorc skill line in general (for instance: sorcs have six passives related to health/stamina/magicka sustain while nightblades have two.) Please join me in asking that ZOS rectify this terrible oversight.

    (It probably goes without being said, but this is now a nerf sorc thread.)

    You are aware that that same bonus is on the Potentates 3 piece bonus, so its more along those lines than a whole 5 piece, which for Akaviri is that coupled with 158 Health Recovery Zos recently added. Always thought that didn't make a lot of sense...
    Personally, I don't consider 158 health regen to be much of an improvement, but I know that's subjective. In any case, as it stands right now on the Live server, Power Stone is identical to the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard.
    Also, the amount of effective Ultimate generation of that passive grants is less than that of the Nightblade's. I don't exactly see the issue.
    You're kind of proving the point I was trying to make here, which is that saying "but that's a 5 piece bonus" is pretty meaningless without context.
    And six passives? There's Unholy Knowledge, Persistence, Rebate, Daedric Protection and Capacitor. Unless you're lumping Power Stone in there as well, which isn't include in your statement of passives that relate to health/stamina/magicka.
    Blood Magic: When you hit an enemy with a directly applied Dark Magic ability, you heal for 874. This effect scales off your Maximum Health and can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
    I would direct that dismay towards Necro either way.
    But the person I was responding to doesn't main a Necro. I think you missed the point of my entire post: I wasn't seriously trying to make this a nerf sorc thread, (although they're indisputably OP AF compared to magblade in PVP) I was trying to point out that I could make the same arguments about his class. I didn't say they're particularly good arguments — in fact, they're pretty myopic in my opinion. For instance, in PVP my magsorc can sustain with much less mag regen than my magblade can. I don't complain about the magsorc's sustain though, I complain about the magblade.

    Whether it is 158 Health Recovery or 1477 Max Health or whichever bonus you would prefer, that stands to reason its 5 piece bonus isn't significant enough to merit being an actual 5 piece bonus. If you want to ignore Potentantes, which is also on the Live server, that's fine. Doesn't change the facts.

    No idea what you're saying on the ultimate front exactly to be honest. You complained its overpowered but Nightblade's have more ultimate generation is all I was getting at.

    Fair on Blood Magic. The "sustain" aspect threw me from "healing" which are essentially the same with restoring a resource. Not that using Health is a frequent action made but sure.

    And I wasn't responding in accordance with nerfing sorc. Using any example for comparison when there's a worse off example doesn't make sense regardless if you intended for them to be good arguments or not.

    OK. Well your first, second, and last paragraphs tell me that you're still missing the point I was trying to make. I don't know how I can explain myself any more clearly, but I'll try.

    For the purposes of this conversation it is entirely irrelevant that Potentates shares the same bonus as Akaviri Dragonguard, because there isn't a single set in the game — 5 or 3 piece — that has a bonus that solely consists of "when an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by one of your abilities, restore 1876 Magicka or Stamina." The only sets that include such a bonus also a) give back more resources than that, and b) have 2 or 3 other bonuses in addition to it. As of right now though, Power Stone is identical to the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — so my example, no matter how flawed you think it is, is the more equitable comparison. Thus if Executioner is OP, then Power Stone is even more so based on his logic. However as I said, I think his logic is flawed and I personally don't find either passive to be OP when taken with the totality of their respective toolkits.

    In other words, you can't compare 2 abilities/passives/etc. in a vacuum — that approach is how magblade got nerfed into the ground to the point that it's nearly unplayable in PVP right now.

    If you don't see where I'm coming from at this point, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
    Regards.

    [edit] Based on my experience with magsorc/magplar/magden it's pretty difficult for me to imagine magblade being as "OP" with regard to sustain as some of the people in this thread are saying, but since I mostly play PVP and I realize that it can be quite a different animal I will take them at their word. Irrespective of that, in PVP it is worse than every other class I've played.
    Edited by Langeston on August 1, 2020 5:44PM
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    Langeston wrote: »
    Celestro wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    Celestro wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    A lot of people are discounting this, but as a sorc who definitely struggles with sustain, especially in trash fights since the orbs and shards etc are much less organized, this is just amazing: a free false god's or vicious ophidian. Really strong whenever there is trash to kill, which inclused some boss fights even.
    No, this is not "a free false god's or vicious ophidian" — it is roughly 1/4 of the 5 piece bonus on either of those sets. (In fact, it's 87% of 1/4 of the bonuses.)

    Executioner vs False God's/Vicious Serpent:
    EdMCqLa.png
    J2sZ96w.png
    POe3nc4.png

    The Sorcerer passive "Power Stone," on the other hand, is exactly the same as the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — i.e., Power Stone is "a free Akaviri Dragonguard."

    Power Stone vs Akaviri Dragonguard:
    IV4z6F8.png
    tJ02ATV.png

    I'm sure you're just as appalled as I am about how OP the Power Stone passive is, and the sorc skill line in general (for instance: sorcs have six passives related to health/stamina/magicka sustain while nightblades have two.) Please join me in asking that ZOS rectify this terrible oversight.

    (It probably goes without being said, but this is now a nerf sorc thread.)

    You are aware that that same bonus is on the Potentates 3 piece bonus, so its more along those lines than a whole 5 piece, which for Akaviri is that coupled with 158 Health Recovery Zos recently added. Always thought that didn't make a lot of sense...
    Personally, I don't consider 158 health regen to be much of an improvement, but I know that's subjective. In any case, as it stands right now on the Live server, Power Stone is identical to the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard.
    Also, the amount of effective Ultimate generation of that passive grants is less than that of the Nightblade's. I don't exactly see the issue.
    You're kind of proving the point I was trying to make here, which is that saying "but that's a 5 piece bonus" is pretty meaningless without context.
    And six passives? There's Unholy Knowledge, Persistence, Rebate, Daedric Protection and Capacitor. Unless you're lumping Power Stone in there as well, which isn't include in your statement of passives that relate to health/stamina/magicka.
    Blood Magic: When you hit an enemy with a directly applied Dark Magic ability, you heal for 874. This effect scales off your Maximum Health and can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
    I would direct that dismay towards Necro either way.
    But the person I was responding to doesn't main a Necro. I think you missed the point of my entire post: I wasn't seriously trying to make this a nerf sorc thread, (although they're indisputably OP AF compared to magblade in PVP) I was trying to point out that I could make the same arguments about his class. I didn't say they're particularly good arguments — in fact, they're pretty myopic in my opinion. For instance, in PVP my magsorc can sustain with much less mag regen than my magblade can. I don't complain about the magsorc's sustain though, I complain about the magblade.

    Whether it is 158 Health Recovery or 1477 Max Health or whichever bonus you would prefer, that stands to reason its 5 piece bonus isn't significant enough to merit being an actual 5 piece bonus. If you want to ignore Potentantes, which is also on the Live server, that's fine. Doesn't change the facts.

    No idea what you're saying on the ultimate front exactly to be honest. You complained its overpowered but Nightblade's have more ultimate generation is all I was getting at.

    Fair on Blood Magic. The "sustain" aspect threw me from "healing" which are essentially the same with restoring a resource. Not that using Health is a frequent action made but sure.

    And I wasn't responding in accordance with nerfing sorc. Using any example for comparison when there's a worse off example doesn't make sense regardless if you intended for them to be good arguments or not.

    OK. Well your first, second, and last paragraphs tell me that you're still missing the point I was trying to make. I don't know how I can explain myself any more clearly, but I'll try.

    For the purposes of this conversation it is entirely irrelevant that Potentates shares the same bonus as Akaviri Dragonguard, because there isn't a single set in the game — 5 or 3 piece — that has a bonus that solely consists of "when an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by one of your abilities, restore 1876 Magicka or Stamina." The only sets that include such a bonus also a) give back more resources than that, and b) have 2 or 3 other bonuses in addition to it. As of right now though, Power Stone is identical to the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — so my example, no matter how flawed you think it is, is the more equitable comparison. Thus if Executioner is OP, then Power Stone is even more so based on his logic. However as I said, I think his logic is flawed and I personally don't find either passive to be OP when taken with the totality of their respective toolkits.

    In other words, you can't compare 2 abilities/passives/etc. in a vacuum — that approach is how magblade got nerfed into the ground to the point that it's nearly unplayable in PVP right now.

    If you don't see where I'm coming from at this point, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
    Regards.

    [edit] Based on my experience with magsorc/magplar/magden it's pretty difficult for me to imagine magblade being as "OP" with regard to sustain as some of the people in this thread are saying, but since I mostly play PVP and I realize that it can be quite a different animal I will take them at their word. Irrespective of that, in PVP it is worse than every other class I've played.

    I get what you are saying even if it was not meant for me. As you have said, comparing 5/3 piece set to a passive is flawed. Passives should be compared to relevent passive, likewise with sets and skills.

    PTS version of excutioner is situational like most passives in thd game. Excuti9ner is very strong when fighting trash and weak when fight8ng a boss, especially boss that does not summon trash. Blood magic looks very strong, but in reality it is weak because dark magic skill line does not have a spammable. Now this is changing next patch, both magicka and stamina sorcerers well have a dark magic spammable that can activate blood magic which is good, but it scale with max health so basically it has low heals on DD, but it is consistant not the less.

    I use to play magicka nightblade in PvE and I can tell you thst I did not have any problems with sustain, but I was doing relatively a good damage but it was not as good as my magicka sorcerer. However, I had major sustain issue on my magicka sorcerer where I had to use dark deal, elemntal drain and high magicka recovery and potions, not counting synrgies, to compensate for the sustain issue I had.
  • Celestro
    Celestro
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    Langeston wrote: »
    Celestro wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    Celestro wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    A lot of people are discounting this, but as a sorc who definitely struggles with sustain, especially in trash fights since the orbs and shards etc are much less organized, this is just amazing: a free false god's or vicious ophidian. Really strong whenever there is trash to kill, which inclused some boss fights even.
    No, this is not "a free false god's or vicious ophidian" — it is roughly 1/4 of the 5 piece bonus on either of those sets. (In fact, it's 87% of 1/4 of the bonuses.)

    Executioner vs False God's/Vicious Serpent:
    EdMCqLa.png
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    POe3nc4.png

    The Sorcerer passive "Power Stone," on the other hand, is exactly the same as the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — i.e., Power Stone is "a free Akaviri Dragonguard."

    Power Stone vs Akaviri Dragonguard:
    IV4z6F8.png
    tJ02ATV.png

    I'm sure you're just as appalled as I am about how OP the Power Stone passive is, and the sorc skill line in general (for instance: sorcs have six passives related to health/stamina/magicka sustain while nightblades have two.) Please join me in asking that ZOS rectify this terrible oversight.

    (It probably goes without being said, but this is now a nerf sorc thread.)

    You are aware that that same bonus is on the Potentates 3 piece bonus, so its more along those lines than a whole 5 piece, which for Akaviri is that coupled with 158 Health Recovery Zos recently added. Always thought that didn't make a lot of sense...
    Personally, I don't consider 158 health regen to be much of an improvement, but I know that's subjective. In any case, as it stands right now on the Live server, Power Stone is identical to the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard.
    Also, the amount of effective Ultimate generation of that passive grants is less than that of the Nightblade's. I don't exactly see the issue.
    You're kind of proving the point I was trying to make here, which is that saying "but that's a 5 piece bonus" is pretty meaningless without context.
    And six passives? There's Unholy Knowledge, Persistence, Rebate, Daedric Protection and Capacitor. Unless you're lumping Power Stone in there as well, which isn't include in your statement of passives that relate to health/stamina/magicka.
    Blood Magic: When you hit an enemy with a directly applied Dark Magic ability, you heal for 874. This effect scales off your Maximum Health and can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
    I would direct that dismay towards Necro either way.
    But the person I was responding to doesn't main a Necro. I think you missed the point of my entire post: I wasn't seriously trying to make this a nerf sorc thread, (although they're indisputably OP AF compared to magblade in PVP) I was trying to point out that I could make the same arguments about his class. I didn't say they're particularly good arguments — in fact, they're pretty myopic in my opinion. For instance, in PVP my magsorc can sustain with much less mag regen than my magblade can. I don't complain about the magsorc's sustain though, I complain about the magblade.

    Whether it is 158 Health Recovery or 1477 Max Health or whichever bonus you would prefer, that stands to reason its 5 piece bonus isn't significant enough to merit being an actual 5 piece bonus. If you want to ignore Potentantes, which is also on the Live server, that's fine. Doesn't change the facts.

    No idea what you're saying on the ultimate front exactly to be honest. You complained its overpowered but Nightblade's have more ultimate generation is all I was getting at.

    Fair on Blood Magic. The "sustain" aspect threw me from "healing" which are essentially the same with restoring a resource. Not that using Health is a frequent action made but sure.

    And I wasn't responding in accordance with nerfing sorc. Using any example for comparison when there's a worse off example doesn't make sense regardless if you intended for them to be good arguments or not.

    OK. Well your first, second, and last paragraphs tell me that you're still missing the point I was trying to make. I don't know how I can explain myself any more clearly, but I'll try.

    For the purposes of this conversation it is entirely irrelevant that Potentates shares the same bonus as Akaviri Dragonguard, because there isn't a single set in the game — 5 or 3 piece — that has a bonus that solely consists of "when an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by one of your abilities, restore 1876 Magicka or Stamina." The only sets that include such a bonus also a) give back more resources than that, and b) have 2 or 3 other bonuses in addition to it. As of right now though, Power Stone is identical to the 5pc bonus on Akaviri Dragonguard — so my example, no matter how flawed you think it is, is the more equitable comparison. Thus if Executioner is OP, then Power Stone is even more so based on his logic. However as I said, I think his logic is flawed and I personally don't find either passive to be OP when taken with the totality of their respective toolkits.

    In other words, you can't compare 2 abilities/passives/etc. in a vacuum — that approach is how magblade got nerfed into the ground to the point that it's nearly unplayable in PVP right now.

    If you don't see where I'm coming from at this point, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
    Regards.

    [edit] Based on my experience with magsorc/magplar/magden it's pretty difficult for me to imagine magblade being as "OP" with regard to sustain as some of the people in this thread are saying, but since I mostly play PVP and I realize that it can be quite a different animal I will take them at their word. Irrespective of that, in PVP it is worse than every other class I've played.

    I mean, I never said Executioner was OP or had a bonus equivalent to the 5 piece bonus of False God's. That's of course false. And fair, just going with those examples in the manner is where my misunderstanding came in. Thats my bad. You're right on that account.
    Edited by Celestro on August 2, 2020 8:57AM
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