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Devs - The proposed Blood For Blood change will make Vampires LITERALLY UNUSABLE IN GROUP CONTENT.

  • Nser
    Nser
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    IonicKai wrote: »
    I don't understand the reasoning behind making a spammable ability unusable in group content. The healing penalty is overkill. It's a melee range spammable and should be balanced with that in mind. If the argument is that it grants too much sustain then make it slightly weaker than other melee spammables (like 98% the damage) because it's sustain with some level of risk (fair to players and still desirable). It may be in a ton of parses and is certainly used in content but it's situational right now since you can't always play in melee range (stam DPS know this problem well). If the complaint is that stam doesn't get this sustain tool make it do physical or magic damage based on if stam or mag is higher or create an equivalent in the werewolf line that doesn't require the transformation. Both of these would make more sense and serve to make this a choice rather than deleting it from pve usage outside of roleplay.



    Ni i dont agree with you and the change is good
    Heal ur self and i will still using it for pve and pvp
  • Nser
    Nser
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    Just use the other magicka cost one if u dont like it
  • Hurbster
    Hurbster
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    DT-ARR wrote: »
    I guarantee you that ZOS does not intend for it to go live in such a form. Mark my words, they will adjust it in .2 or .3 to read something like, after using BfB player will receive 50% less healing from players after 5 seconds. And then they will claim that they compromise / listen to the player community.

    Just like buying or listing a house. You always mark it up by a good bit from your desired sell price because you know that youre going to be “low balled”. Then you “negotiate” and meet in the middle at the price you always wanted to sell at.

    ZOS knows that by unrolling the changes this way that they can head off some of the complaints. If they started with 50% less healing theyd still face the same amount of outrage. Now at least, assuming they operate like described above, they will have placated a good % of people who will think “well at least it wasnt what it was before”.

    Yeah, they have done this sort of thing before.
    Nerf Iceheart ? Seriously ?
  • JMadFour
    JMadFour
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    So, looking at the new PTS notes for 6.1.1...

    They really aren’t going to walk back this change huh.

    Smh.

    I’d like to hear the Dev reasoning for punishing people for using this skill by making them near-permanently unhealable, rather that any of the many many other routes that could ha e taken to adjust BfB.
  • JMadFour
    JMadFour
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    Please just do the easy thing.

    1. Make Blood For Blood cost Magicka.
    2. Make Arterial Burst ranged.

    Enough with having to constantly debuff ourselves every time we use our spammable.
  • Mortiis13
    Mortiis13
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    The devs do understand. They want to make BfB unusable for meta builds and force niche vampire builds into using their self-healing, namely Vampiric Drain. It's two birds with one stone in their book. Of course for us, the actual players, it's five murdered skills out of six.

    When the self heal would atleast heal :/ it's laughable on live.
  • IonicKai
    IonicKai
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    Still no updates on bfb (the only really useful skill). It's a debuff because it costs health. To debuff us further by blocking healing from others is just a gut punch that removes the option to use this in group content. Please just adjust damage a bit, balance it like a melee spammable because that's what it is! It doesn't need additional debuffs it costs health. If the complaint is the lack of a stam equivalent for sustain then address that don't nerf it into the ground.
  • Wuerstal
    Wuerstal
    IonicKai wrote: »
    It's a debuff because it costs health.

    Well.. to be honest: The fact that it is costing health is more of a good thing for some classes. Magplar for example. It makes sustain way easier and in Trail or Dungeon you got your healers with you. If they are doing their job correctly, you will not even realize you lost health by casting bfb. So I can't really agree with you on the quoted pard.. But ofc the changes are rediculus. The way it is now (even in .2) is unplayable...

    But they will tough it eventually. They do realise that this change is bull. I'm pretty sure

    Tanks alot, deals good dmg, heals like crap.
  • IonicKai
    IonicKai
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    Wuerstal wrote: »
    IonicKai wrote: »
    It's a debuff because it costs health.

    Well.. to be honest: The fact that it is costing health is more of a good thing for some classes. Magplar for example. It makes sustain way easier and in Trail or Dungeon you got your healers with you. If they are doing their job correctly, you will not even realize you lost health by casting bfb. So I can't really agree with you on the quoted pard.. But ofc the changes are rediculus. The way it is now (even in .2) is unplayable...

    But they will tough it eventually. They do realise that this change is bull. I'm pretty sure

    You are correct. In a coordinated group with dedicated healers it's usually non issue and great for sustain because it's not eating your mag. That said there is risk. There are already limitations. The proposed change to add a debuff that blocks healing for X amount of time on a spammable is the part I have issue with. Reduced healing or really any debuff seems odd. Actually probably the fairest debuff would be a slight mag recovery debuff (small max 5%) to make it slightly less crazy on the sustain front that would make more sense and still have it be usable.
  • JMadFour
    JMadFour
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    IonicKai wrote: »
    The proposed change to add a debuff that blocks healing for X amount of time on a spammable is the part I have issue with.

    Yep. The fact that it is a spammable means this debuff will always be on us.

    Which will be a major problem in group content.
  • ThePedge
    ThePedge
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    Another buff for MagSorc. They use Aetherial Burst as to still proc Crystal Frags.
    We may be down but we will never be out.
  • MasterSpatula
    MasterSpatula
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    Apox wrote: »
    ironically the blood for blood change wont effect parsemonkeys at all.

    and the skill is getting nerfed because of parsemonkeys lol

    That's hardly even ironic anymore; that's just plain the way they've operated since at least Morrowind release. Sledgehammer nerfs where a precision tool is required that end up not affecting the intended target at all and damaging everyone else.
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • HalfDragoness
    HalfDragoness
    Soul Shriven
    JMadFour wrote: »
    Please just do the easy thing.

    1. Make Blood For Blood cost Magicka.
    2. Make Arterial Burst ranged.

    Enough with having to constantly debuff ourselves every time we use our spammable.

    This!
    Yes!

    But maybe not full ranged, maybe mid ranged.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    JMadFour wrote: »
    Please just do the easy thing.

    1. Make Blood For Blood cost Magicka.
    2. Make Arterial Burst ranged.

    Enough with having to constantly debuff ourselves every time we use our spammable.

    This!
    Yes!

    But maybe not full ranged, maybe mid ranged.

    Or make it like Materialize in the old Clouding Swarm Ultimate. Its ranged, but it teleports you to the target every time you use it. Would make it a unique gap closer spammable.
    PC NA
    Breton MagDK
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
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    ThePedge wrote: »
    Another buff for MagSorc. They use Aetherial Burst as to still proc Crystal Frags.

    Elemental weapon kicks arterial bursts ass.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • JMadFour
    JMadFour
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    Devs - Please reconsider.

    I don't want to have to cure my Vampire in order to be accepted in group content.
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    JMadFour wrote: »

    This alone, by itself, with no other changes to Vampire, will make Vampires COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY UNUSABLE IN ANY GROUP CONTENT.

    That is fine.

    Not every build, and specific ability on that build, should be available for everything. It will be relegated to small scale pvp or solo scenarios.

    It is like complaining that soul assault isnt great in pve and I will be kicked for using it. Your build/preference is a bias, not a logical argument.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Nerhesi wrote: »
    JMadFour wrote: »

    This alone, by itself, with no other changes to Vampire, will make Vampires COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY UNUSABLE IN ANY GROUP CONTENT.

    That is fine.

    Not every build, and specific ability on that build, should be available for everything. It will be relegated to small scale pvp or solo scenarios.

    It is like complaining that soul assault isnt great in pve and I will be kicked for using it. Your build/preference is a bias, not a logical argument.

    Well most skill lines have some form of group play to them. Even werewolves have group synergies and passives for werewolf play but vampires don't and have to rely on other skill lines at an increased cost. For all the debuffs it'd be nice if they gave to the group in way, shape, or form. Even if it's a weak synergy.
    Edited by Vevvev on July 31, 2020 5:04PM
    PC NA
    Breton MagDK
  • VioletDracolich
    I disagree, mostly due to the fact that Blood Frenzy has the exact same restriction and it's still widely used by many vampire builds.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    I disagree, mostly due to the fact that Blood Frenzy has the exact same restriction and it's still widely used by many vampire builds.

    Reason why is the moment you need healing from your group you can simply turn it off. 5 Seconds is an incredibly long time to sit there and not cast a spammable just to be healed by a group member. Using it with that long debuff is basically telling your group you want to make the healer's lives miserable since they can't heal you, and you want to deal less damage since you'll be busy weaving in self heals every so often.
    PC NA
    Breton MagDK
  • fierackas
    fierackas
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    Glad to see they are continuing to ruin vampires
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  • SlimeBro1
    SlimeBro1
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    Nerhesi wrote: »
    JMadFour wrote: »

    This alone, by itself, with no other changes to Vampire, will make Vampires COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY UNUSABLE IN ANY GROUP CONTENT.

    That is fine.

    Not every build, and specific ability on that build, should be available for everything. It will be relegated to small scale pvp or solo scenarios.

    It is like complaining that soul assault isnt great in pve and I will be kicked for using it. Your build/preference is a bias, not a logical argument.

    Nope, it is not fine. How is a skill line being stuck in only small scale PvP or solo-play a good thing?

    That sounds like bad design and boring to me. Vampire, like werewolf, is supposed to be at least viable in all things. Vampire isn't like the assault or support skill line where it obviously shines better in PvP.

    This change will make the one thing vamps were taken for in group content no longer viable. That is bad.

    Not sure how you can see it differently.
  • W0lf_z13
    W0lf_z13
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    if the BfB changes as set go live I will be forced after playing as a vamp on my mDK for the last 4 years to cure him, Vamp will be totally useless to myself as well as MANY others ... odd that they put out a chapter designated toward vampires, completely change the vampire line to entice people to become vamps then gut out some of the main skills from it
    Breton Nightblade ~ Fang of the Wolf ~ (50)   |   Dunmer DragonKnight ~ Ðårk Ŵølf ~ (50)   |   Breton Templar ~ Wolf the Healer ~ (50)

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  • IonicKai
    IonicKai
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    The need to remove the "can't be healed by others for 5 seconds" or it's worthless. There is too much damage flying around to go 5 seconds without outside heals. The sustain gained won't match the loss of constantly having to heal yourself. It relegates it to solo play.... The damage adjustment portion was fine.
  • Nser
    Nser
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    At least make it like it was 100% damage of missing health.
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