IonicKai wrote: »

I don't understand the reasoning behind making a spammable ability unusable in group content. The healing penalty is overkill. It's a melee range spammable and should be balanced with that in mind. If the argument is that it grants too much sustain then make it slightly weaker than other melee spammables (like 98% the damage) because it's sustain with some level of risk (fair to players and still desirable). It may be in a ton of parses and is certainly used in content but it's situational right now since you can't always play in melee range (stam DPS know this problem well). If the complaint is that stam doesn't get this sustain tool make it do physical or magic damage based on if stam or mag is higher or create an equivalent in the werewolf line that doesn't require the transformation. Both of these would make more sense and serve to make this a choice rather than deleting it from pve usage outside of roleplay.

Ni i dont agree with you and the change is good
Heal ur self and i will still using it for pve and pvp

Nser wrote: »

IonicKai wrote: »

I don't understand the reasoning behind making a spammable ability unusable in group content. The healing penalty is overkill. It's a melee range spammable and should be balanced with that in mind. If the argument is that it grants too much sustain then make it slightly weaker than other melee spammables (like 98% the damage) because it's sustain with some level of risk (fair to players and still desirable). It may be in a ton of parses and is certainly used in content but it's situational right now since you can't always play in melee range (stam DPS know this problem well). If the complaint is that stam doesn't get this sustain tool make it do physical or magic damage based on if stam or mag is higher or create an equivalent in the werewolf line that doesn't require the transformation. Both of these would make more sense and serve to make this a choice rather than deleting it from pve usage outside of roleplay.

Ni i dont agree with you and the change is good
Heal ur self and i will still using it for pve and pvp

Good luck in vet content especially hard mode and having good uptimes if at all.

So, looking at the new PTS notes for 6.1.1...

They really aren’t going to walk back this change huh.

Smh.

I’d like to hear the Dev reasoning for punishing people for using this skill by making them near-permanently unhealable, rather that any of the many many other routes that could ha e taken to adjust BfB.

Seems to me that Vampirism needs a serious revamp. The skill line is only really applicable to Magicka damage builds but even in it's current state the damage is very weak compared to class builds. There's no benefits for Stamina builds, nor healers and possible some very limited use for tanks but I'm not sure even that works. Vampirism has uses in PvP but PvE and solo play are bad compared to a class build.

I only really play solo Magcro and sometimes heal normal dungeons but playing as vampire in any mode is high risk with no reward. Obviously I'm only gimping myself as a vampire if I'm healing. If I'm soloing it's just far more effective to use my class abilities; sure I can go stage 4 and use try and go all in vampire but there's no AoE damage and things just don't die as quick.

I'll probably stay vampire for RP but in it's current state I can't build around any of the skills and except for the Undeath passive (which I won't have since it's not worth losing my class skills to go stage 3), none of the other passives give any meaningful value to my playstyle.

Still no updates on bfb (the only really useful skill). It's a debuff because it costs health. To debuff us further by blocking healing from others is just a gut punch that removes the option to use this in group content. Please just adjust damage a bit, balance it like a melee spammable because that's what it is! It doesn't need additional debuffs it costs health. If the complaint is the lack of a stam equivalent for sustain then address that don't nerf it into the ground.

Wuerstal wrote: »

IonicKai wrote: »

It's a debuff because it costs health.

Well.. to be honest: The fact that it is costing health is more of a good thing for some classes. Magplar for example. It makes sustain way easier and in Trail or Dungeon you got your healers with you. If they are doing their job correctly, you will not even realize you lost health by casting bfb. So I can't really agree with you on the quoted pard.. But ofc the changes are rediculus. The way it is now (even in .2) is unplayable...

But they will tough it eventually. They do realise that this change is bull. I'm pretty sure

You are correct. In a coordinated group with dedicated healers it's usually non issue and great for sustain because it's not eating your mag. That said there is risk. There are already limitations. The proposed change to add a debuff that blocks healing for X amount of time on a spammable is the part I have issue with. Reduced healing or really any debuff seems odd. Actually probably the fairest debuff would be a slight mag recovery debuff (small max 5%) to make it slightly less crazy on the sustain front that would make more sense and still have it be usable.

IonicKai wrote: »

The proposed change to add a debuff that blocks healing for X amount of time on a spammable is the part I have issue with.

Yep. The fact that it is a spammable means this debuff will always be on us.

Which will be a major problem in group content.

Apox wrote: »

ironically the blood for blood change wont effect parsemonkeys at all.

and the skill is getting nerfed because of parsemonkeys lol

That's hardly even ironic anymore; that's just plain the way they've operated since at least Morrowind release. Sledgehammer nerfs where a precision tool is required that end up not affecting the intended target at all and damaging everyone else.

HalfDragoness wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

Please just do the easy thing.

1. Make Blood For Blood cost Magicka.
2. Make Arterial Burst ranged.

Enough with having to constantly debuff ourselves every time we use our spammable.

This!
Yes!

But maybe not full ranged, maybe mid ranged.

Or make it like Materialize in the old Clouding Swarm Ultimate. Its ranged, but it teleports you to the target every time you use it. Would make it a unique gap closer spammable.

Devs - Please reconsider.

I don't want to have to cure my Vampire in order to be accepted in group content.

Nerhesi wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

This alone, by itself, with no other changes to Vampire, will make Vampires COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY UNUSABLE IN ANY GROUP CONTENT.

That is fine.

Not every build, and specific ability on that build, should be available for everything. It will be relegated to small scale pvp or solo scenarios.

It is like complaining that soul assault isnt great in pve and I will be kicked for using it. Your build/preference is a bias, not a logical argument.

Well most skill lines have some form of group play to them. Even werewolves have group synergies and passives for werewolf play but vampires don't and have to rely on other skill lines at an increased cost. For all the debuffs it'd be nice if they gave to the group in way, shape, or form. Even if it's a weak synergy.

VioletDracolich wrote: »

I disagree, mostly due to the fact that Blood Frenzy has the exact same restriction and it's still widely used by many vampire builds.

Reason why is the moment you need healing from your group you can simply turn it off. 5 Seconds is an incredibly long time to sit there and not cast a spammable just to be healed by a group member. Using it with that long debuff is basically telling your group you want to make the healer's lives miserable since they can't heal you, and you want to deal less damage since you'll be busy weaving in self heals every so often.

if the BfB changes as set go live I will be forced after playing as a vamp on my mDK for the last 4 years to cure him, Vamp will be totally useless to myself as well as MANY others ... odd that they put out a chapter designated toward vampires, completely change the vampire line to entice people to become vamps then gut out some of the main skills from it

At least make it like it was 100% damage of missing health.