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Grave Grasp change and better proposal
BohnT2
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Up front, it's safe to say that a change for this ability was needed ever since it was first implemented one year ago.
The complaints back then were a combination of multiple things starting from the overall lack of power on the skill:
All you get is a snare or depending on the morph a root in each circle along with applying minor maim.
You could also choose to give empower to 2 of your available pets however only for one tick and it's impossible to reliably hit your pet and an enemy.
Along with all this the skill is also really important.
That's it you don't get anything else, no damage, no buffs, nothing, compared to other skills with equal effects like encase, talons or bombard this skill simply can't compete at all.
Encase gives up to 8 seconds of the strongest healing buff in the game or reduces its cost if you don't hit enough people.
Talons will root a lot more players while dealing regular AoE damage and either apply minor maim too or add more damage with a dot.
Bombard covers a big Area, deals the AoE damage standard and roots players.
It's clear at this point that there is no reason for grave grasp to be used.
Now the skill was changed to have 3 different effects for each circle.
However this doesn't help at all with any of the issues mentioned above, in fact it makes some things even worse.
The newly added stun is incredibly unreliable and can't be controlled at all in pvp, you have a huge gap between you and the circle that stuns.
Meaning enemies that are right on you are immune to being stunned.
The two new morph effects don't help at all either, changing the empower to last 5 seconds still leaves you with the issue that either you target your pets or you use it on an enemy so no matter what you lose out on half of the effect of the skill.
The other morph adds additional duration however in PvP no one will sit in the root or the stun till the duration ends making this morph not worth the skill point spent.
After all this ranting here's my proposal on how to make the skill better and actually useful.
The main point is splitting up the morphs in two different archetypes:
One morphs is single targeted with skeleton arms crawling to the enemy and pulling them off their feet (ignores block but not dodge)
Also deals 1/2 of the single target spammable standard as damage and applies minor maim
The other morph retains the mechanic of three circles.
The first enemy you hit gets stunned, the next gets rooted and everyone else gets snared.
The circles also consume bodies and deal damage equal to streak when they do so.
This makes the skill strong enough to compete with other equivalent skills while also helping necromancer to strengthen its body mechanics and gives Necromancers the option to either go for more damage and more utility vs multiple players at the cost of absolute control about the stun while still having some vs being able to control the stun and gaining more damage vs a single opponent.
The complaints back then were a combination of multiple things starting from the overall lack of power on the skill:
All you get is a snare or depending on the morph a root in each circle along with applying minor maim.
You could also choose to give empower to 2 of your available pets however only for one tick and it's impossible to reliably hit your pet and an enemy.
Along with all this the skill is also really important.
That's it you don't get anything else, no damage, no buffs, nothing, compared to other skills with equal effects like encase, talons or bombard this skill simply can't compete at all.
Encase gives up to 8 seconds of the strongest healing buff in the game or reduces its cost if you don't hit enough people.
Talons will root a lot more players while dealing regular AoE damage and either apply minor maim too or add more damage with a dot.
Bombard covers a big Area, deals the AoE damage standard and roots players.
It's clear at this point that there is no reason for grave grasp to be used.
Now the skill was changed to have 3 different effects for each circle.
However this doesn't help at all with any of the issues mentioned above, in fact it makes some things even worse.
The newly added stun is incredibly unreliable and can't be controlled at all in pvp, you have a huge gap between you and the circle that stuns.
Meaning enemies that are right on you are immune to being stunned.
The two new morph effects don't help at all either, changing the empower to last 5 seconds still leaves you with the issue that either you target your pets or you use it on an enemy so no matter what you lose out on half of the effect of the skill.
The other morph adds additional duration however in PvP no one will sit in the root or the stun till the duration ends making this morph not worth the skill point spent.
After all this ranting here's my proposal on how to make the skill better and actually useful.
The main point is splitting up the morphs in two different archetypes:
One morphs is single targeted with skeleton arms crawling to the enemy and pulling them off their feet (ignores block but not dodge)
Also deals 1/2 of the single target spammable standard as damage and applies minor maim
The other morph retains the mechanic of three circles.
The first enemy you hit gets stunned, the next gets rooted and everyone else gets snared.
The circles also consume bodies and deal damage equal to streak when they do so.
This makes the skill strong enough to compete with other equivalent skills while also helping necromancer to strengthen its body mechanics and gives Necromancers the option to either go for more damage and more utility vs multiple players at the cost of absolute control about the stun while still having some vs being able to control the stun and gaining more damage vs a single opponent.
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setayco✭✭✭Well thought out feedback and good concept of suggestion for the current matter.
More feedback should be encouraged to get changes to come in the next 4 weeks and I encourage all who are passionate about balance, hot-fixes and bugs to be more vocal to shed light on this opportunity to get change. I agree this change will be very nice for the group play mechanics of CC provided this skill as is (current proposed changes) seems to be very very intuitive versus mass groups in PvP content both morphs will still be likely underwhelming in other forms of PvP, such as solo gameplay, small group (in forms of battlegrounds) and ETC. The cost for using both morphs for an unreliable CC is very high compared to performance vs other forms of CCs. There is no current information on whether or not the Stun is block-able or not. And that plays a huge part in the current travel time, size and delay for such things to be in full effect. If there is that much room for counter-play with the current design, than the stun should either be first in the line of CC to help with how slow the travel time is and the cost for an ability which has no damage. Like such -
Stun, Immobilize, Slow.
If not than at the very least the stun should be unblock-able given the circumstances of range calculations needing to be made from the User of the ability. In terms of group play necromancer has a Totem which covers a big enough area to be detrimental to ball groups as is. Granted the skill is delayed and block-able. But in conclusion i encourage all who reads these post provide feedback, opinions and more importantly suggestions and proposed changes and fixes to go along with the feedback and be more vocal and use this PTS time to get changes through even if this current patch was focused on certain skills and gear and PERFORMANCE. We as a community need to commend and appreciate what we are given and try to make things better.0 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭Tired of giving feedback to this mess of a class. Now that they nerfed harmony it will even more at the bottom than before. Everyone should play something else than Magcro in pvp tbh.
The devs seems to think the class if fine but it's clunky badly designed compared to other classes and full of bugs.
Mender not always healing. Blastbones being clunky and should have a better debuff. Boneyard/harmony nerfed and animation is clunky. Ricochet skull being slowest projectile in the game and clunky to weave. Mist form bugged more than before. Mystic syphon being only usable in PvE because damage is so bad in PvP. Hungry scythe poor damage should be buffed and act as an execute. Arcanist not usable in PvP again..It's a PvE skill and should at least give major sorcery. No good stun in the class kit since ZOS think we shouldn't be able to compete 1v1 with this class. Expensive ults.. Damage morph of the Rez too expensive no one using it.
I could go on forever so many things wrong with this class. It's a shame always wanted Necro in this game since launch but I'll just move on to another class next patch.
There is your feedback ZOS. Plenty of players passionate about the Necro class already gave tons of feedback since the class came out.
Edited by Revokus on July 14, 2020 3:53AMPlaying since January 23, 20161