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Impen changes kinda just seem like another Nightblade nerf, tbh.
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BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »
3k crit resistance mitigates 45.45% crit damage, regardless of crit modifiers or class. When the changes go live, that 3k will turn into 3,748 and it will mitigate 56.78%.BaiterOfZergs wrote: »
So with base crit + crit modifiers how much damage is 3k impen really mitigating from a Templar and NB ?
Well, I know exactly how high it can go.BaiterOfZergs wrote: »I honestly don’t think people realize how high crit damage can go , you having 3k impen isn’t stopping a Templar or NB with an extra 30-40 percent crit damage + a ton of penetration.
It'll probably feel worse in no CP though. Because you lose 9% crit chance and [up to] 25% crit damage in no CP, the on-demand crits that Cloak allows and the 10% crit damage increase from Hemorrhage are invaluable to NBs. An additional 11% crit damage loss will be pretty noticable.
What is the base crit modifier?
You also have to consider that your damage and someone else’s extra 30 percent damage isn’t the same. So that 30-40 percent can be added on to let’s say 1500 or it can be added on to 3500. Which is a noticeable difference.
I also think no cp next update will have ridiculously high damage, damage is already too high in no cp. So while 11% is a good amount to lose you still have to account for the extra damage you’re getting in no cp due to the mitigation nerfs.
(Crit) Dmg in nocp certainly does not need any nerfs. Only dmg that is too high in nocp is proc dmg and that's not reduced by crit resist - but it will get a huge buff by malacath's. Shifting the meta even more towards procs is the opposite of what should happen for nocp pvp.
No one really uses proc damage in no cp. I mostly play no cp.
Damage is definitely high in no cp, the only thing that balances it out is healers and people that know what they’re doing but even then you can still damn near instagib someone. Even with lower crit chance people still crit a lot as well, wizard riposte meta made it even more blatantly obvious.
A few people will try to use the ring but have to wait and see how that goes. Although that would just add to my no cp prediction with or without procs.
Anyways. I didn’t say anything about a nerf, just that damage is too high because it is and good players aren’t good indicators , average players are because good players will always skew things since they’ll always adapt and be good. That’s the reason you don’t balance a game based on the 1 percent.
The first sentence is just straight up nonsense. Procs have always been very prevalent in nocp pvp.
But outside of those dmg is not too high and players that get "instagibed" on a regular basis need to l2 play and/or build. Even if there were some overperforming gank builds (which again, aren't even getting nerfed because vamp ...), those things have to be adressed on an individual basis, but don't justify overall dmg nerfs.
WR was popular because it didn't need "a lot of crits" for 100% uptime, and its dmg mitigation applied to all dmg, not just crits. After the nerfs it is almost extinct. If crit dmg was an issue, more players in nocp would run trans or impreg - but almost nobody does.
And it is not possible to balance a game arround players that have no clue, because they will complain about everything and even if everything gets nerfed there will always be something those players can't deal with or don't understand and therefore cry about.
Ok
Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »I very much doubt that it was made intentionally for nightblades and templar nerfs. Much more likely that they want to help out the People that go into cyro/bgs with their pve builds (not that some crit resist is gonna save them but w/e). Or it being part of standardization because everyone in pvp runs impen therefore it must be overbudgetet (cant wait for divines nerf, that regrind is gonna be amazing).
Why would they nerf Divines? It's not that great, even if you're wearing TBS. I could see them nerfing the Shadow mundus, though.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »I very much doubt that it was made intentionally for nightblades and templar nerfs. Much more likely that they want to help out the People that go into cyro/bgs with their pve builds (not that some crit resist is gonna save them but w/e). Or it being part of standardization because everyone in pvp runs impen therefore it must be overbudgetet (cant wait for divines nerf, that regrind is gonna be amazing).
Why would they nerf Divines? It's not that great, even if you're wearing TBS. I could see them nerfing the Shadow mundus, though.
Almost everyone in pve runs divines, so it must be op, right?0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »
3k crit resistance mitigates 45.45% crit damage, regardless of crit modifiers or class. When the changes go live, that 3k will turn into 3,748 and it will mitigate 56.78%.BaiterOfZergs wrote: »
So with base crit + crit modifiers how much damage is 3k impen really mitigating from a Templar and NB ?
Well, I know exactly how high it can go.BaiterOfZergs wrote: »I honestly don’t think people realize how high crit damage can go , you having 3k impen isn’t stopping a Templar or NB with an extra 30-40 percent crit damage + a ton of penetration.
It'll probably feel worse in no CP though. Because you lose 9% crit chance and [up to] 25% crit damage in no CP, the on-demand crits that Cloak allows and the 10% crit damage increase from Hemorrhage are invaluable to NBs. An additional 11% crit damage loss will be pretty noticable.
What is the base crit modifier?
You also have to consider that your damage and someone else’s extra 30 percent damage isn’t the same. So that 30-40 percent can be added on to let’s say 1500 or it can be added on to 3500. Which is a noticeable difference.
I also think no cp next update will have ridiculously high damage, damage is already too high in no cp. So while 11% is a good amount to lose you still have to account for the extra damage you’re getting in no cp due to the mitigation nerfs.
(Crit) Dmg in nocp certainly does not need any nerfs. Only dmg that is too high in nocp is proc dmg and that's not reduced by crit resist - but it will get a huge buff by malacath's. Shifting the meta even more towards procs is the opposite of what should happen for nocp pvp.
No one really uses proc damage in no cp. I mostly play no cp.
Damage is definitely high in no cp, the only thing that balances it out is healers and people that know what they’re doing but even then you can still damn near instagib someone. Even with lower crit chance people still crit a lot as well, wizard riposte meta made it even more blatantly obvious.
A few people will try to use the ring but have to wait and see how that goes. Although that would just add to my no cp prediction with or without procs.
Anyways. I didn’t say anything about a nerf, just that damage is too high because it is and good players aren’t good indicators , average players are because good players will always skew things since they’ll always adapt and be good. That’s the reason you don’t balance a game based on the 1 percent.
The first sentence is just straight up nonsense. Procs have always been very prevalent in nocp pvp.
But outside of those dmg is not too high and players that get "instagibed" on a regular basis need to l2 play and/or build. Even if there were some overperforming gank builds (which again, aren't even getting nerfed because vamp ...), those things have to be adressed on an individual basis, but don't justify overall dmg nerfs.
WR was popular because it didn't need "a lot of crits" for 100% uptime, and its dmg mitigation applied to all dmg, not just crits. After the nerfs it is almost extinct. If crit dmg was an issue, more players in nocp would run trans or impreg - but almost nobody does.
And it is not possible to balance a game arround players that have no clue, because they will complain about everything and even if everything gets nerfed there will always be something those players can't deal with or don't understand and therefore cry about.
Well said.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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Why do people that don't play NB think all NBs are gankers?SilverKatz wrote: »why gankers think every patch is about nerfing them?Edited by Langeston on May 10, 2020 9:45PM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
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Why do people that don't play NB thing all NBs are gankers?SilverKatz wrote: »why gankers think every patch is about nerfing them?
Because the only noticeable NBs these days are gankers. HAH! Gotcha.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It will be awful for Nbs. With a few CP, impen traits on armor (people won't traitchange all their gear and impen is still a top tier trait beside well fitted and sturdy) and the new Battlespirit you can easily reach 60% crit def. My char on the live server has 4k impen on the PTR. This means that even with 20% CP in critdmg I will deal less critical dmg than I would with a regular hit with Malacath ring. So the ring will be a must have even tho it has really bad synergie with Nb...I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OP is partially correct but like most people here and in game misunderstands what Impenetrable affects:
The sole victim of any and all increases to one's critical resistance are builds with high critical chance but low or unbuffed critical damage. Critical damage buffs like NB's Hemorrhage are the strongest buffs against increasing critical resistance so OP here is barking on the wrong tree but he got to right forest. Arguably most light armor and medium armor builds' damage will 'suffer' more because of this than nightblades, as their crit damage will go down by more.
And yes, giving ppl such high base crit resistance and still very valuable impen trait is gonna mean ppl will run with more crit resistance as offensive traits are extremely crappy. Only Sturdy and Well Fitted keep balanced power level and honestly who is gonna run 7 sturdy or well fitted? Everyone will run same or even more crit resist next patch than this one.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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No. For the same reason this change negatively affects Mechanical Acuity more that it does NMA, it negatively affects NBs more than it does classes that that are unable to control when they crit.OP is partially correct but like most people here and in game misunderstands what Impenetrable affects:
The sole victim of any and all increases to one's critical resistance are builds with high critical chance but low or unbuffed critical damage. Critical damage buffs like NB's Hemorrhage are the strongest buffs against increasing critical resistance so OP here is barking on the wrong tree but he got to right forest. Arguably most light armor and medium armor builds' damage will 'suffer' more because of this than nightblades, as their crit damage will go down by more.
And yes, giving ppl such high base crit resistance and still very valuable impen trait is gonna mean ppl will run with more crit resistance as offensive traits are extremely crappy. Only Sturdy and Well Fitted keep balanced power level and honestly who is gonna run 7 sturdy or well fitted? Everyone will run same or even more crit resist next patch than this one.0 -
UrbWzrd✭✭
Oh. Going invisible does get rid of it. Good news. I learnt something today
You need to stick with Pong MMO. Lucky for you, it looks like Zenimax also tries hard to achieve a Pong like experience with all these "balances" and "nerfs".
That said, if something needs to be nerfed in this game that should be holly GHz magical spear a lot of people spamming. I don't mind the damage or what so ever it is doing but at least they should get rid off that nerving ultra high frequency animation!
I only play ESO for the last 6 months and in the beginning I thought I found an ever lasting gem. I am always an rogue/ranger type (except D2, necromancer, that God Father char was the most appealing to me with all the gang behind him) and I began to create a typical bosmer Nightblade.
The more I was into the game, the more I learnt the class is the weakest and relies mostly non-class skills to survive. Even DW was and still is way inferior to 2H, a weapon type which has nothing to do with a rogue/ranger type! I did not invest with 2H and stick with the DW but I adopted heavy armor; both because to sustain, and because it was not penalizing (same with the 2H).
Diversity is one thing, erasing class identity is another, which is what ESO did with Nightblade.
Anyway, I was still persistent with my bosmer stamblade (after all questing I cannot simply abandon her or cannot enjoy an all mighty Templar anyway) and building a crit stamblade with sets I crafted myself for the last six months... until today.
Zenimax decided to "balance" critical for only God knows reason!
What about my six months? What about lasting experience? Is this game an RPG or just an MMO not much different than Call of Duty? Just switch the traits, just use another weapon or turn to a vampire! For God's sake, I am a werewolf and I hate vampires!
I was planning to play this game as a lasting RPG, not like Fortnite I can change any character on the fly without a second thought. Seems I was wrong and I will just finish all the quests and put this game to dust like a single player experience.
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