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In order to close the skill gap I would... (POLL)

  • MattT1988
    MattT1988
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    I would do nothing.
    I don’t get this attitude that it’s wrong to have a skill gap. Why the hell shouldn’t there be one? If people put in the effort to learn and get better why shouldn’t they be rewarded?
  • alainjbrennanb16_ESO
    alainjbrennanb16_ESO
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    i would have longer cool downs, including la, bash and ha, peeps say everyone needs to learn but peeps learn at diff rates and also have diff play styles, which can be down to their re-action speed (we all dont have the same re-action speed), yes knowledge is need, but not how others play, but instead how ur build/class/role works, and learn them, for instant if ur role is tank, learn how to tank dont concern ur self with group until you understand how the role works, for example not having tuant all the time and lose to the soft tuants of the game, a soft taunt should never take adds or boss away from the tank, learn role before you go and expand it
    Main character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    I would teach others how to play, as I had been taught. You know, like an MMO community usually does.
  • Sarannah
    Sarannah
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    None of the above. (State below)
    In my opinion there are multiple ways to close the skillgap between players, while still having different playstyles.

    -They could make it so using a light attack makes your next skill do 40% less damage. This sounds weird, but it would close the gap between those who weave/animation cancel and those who do not. Also, this would help those with lag to be able to hold up to those who are able to weave attacks/animation cancel. This would also leave light attack and light attack sets intact. It would only close the skillgap.

    -Make it so that when you switch skillbar, you cannot use the skills on the fronted bar for five seconds. This would remove most of the skillgap. As those only using 5 skills vs those who use 10 skills+weaving/animation cancel would become alot smaller, due to it no longer being possible. It would become 5 skills vs 5 skills+weaving/animation cancel. This would also allow people to use multiple specs on one character, instead of everything devoted to one build.

    Just my thoughts.

    PS: An idea to expand the champion system: Above 810 points we get a secondary champion system, in which we can use those points. Maybe name it "Champion's Rewards". With stuff that does not impact combat/the gameplay, but does enhance a player who has many champion points to spare.
    These give small bonusses like: +0,01% gold gain per kill, +0,01% experience gain per kill, -0.01% research time, +0.01% crafting experience, +0.01% chance for items to drop one higher tier(normal-magic, etc), etc. With very small bonusses, so even if you would use hundreds of points in this system, it wouldn't make much of a difference. Allowing players to show their actual champion point amounts above their heads(which would be cool).
    Edited by Sarannah on April 5, 2020 9:44AM
  • Recent
    Recent
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    None of the above. (State below)
    The reality of rpgmmos is the diversity of players so it is difficult to fit all into one universal box.

    There are players that stand out as freaks of nature and they always tend to set the bar pretty high for the rest of the crowd.

    Then you have the hardcore endgamers that are awesome but they have to work very hard to achieve what the 'super freaks'
    are able to accomplish without seemingly trying so hard

    Then you get the average good player ....these players do well provided they are not in a hardcore toxic environment and they get lots of training and help and advice etc

    Then there's the beginners....well we all start here and we have dreams but dont really know how far they will take us

    So if you look closely at the disparity of player ability levels you can clearly see that you would need at keast 3 different shards of the same game set ti 3 different difficulty levels according to player ability.

    The way i see it...all game developers in every rpgmmo i have played, tend to allow the top tier players, the freaky players to set the pace for everyone else...then everyone is playing catch up without even realising it. Those cookie cutter meta builds we are all spoon fed ..even newbies find themselves following those builds ...like i stated above...top tier freaky players set the pace for the rest of us wether you like to admit it or not....and even those that refuse to admit it will say they make their own builds but really they use the template and tweak where they see fit. Meta build is meta build .

    So when it comes to skill it's about how much a player get get from a class /race build by pushing those skills to their limit really.
    Yes pushing buttons sounds easy but again some can really push those buttons to oblivion.....while others, well lets say our keys stick sometimes and we have poor internet service in our area 😉😆😆
    Edited by Recent on April 5, 2020 9:52AM
  • rexagamemnon
    rexagamemnon
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    Implement a training system into the game where beginner players could practice and learn the existing system.
    this and bring back premorrowind sustain as well as increase over all damage of skills without light and heavy attack weaving. also remove CP cap
  • Neophyte
    Neophyte
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    I would do nothing.
    Is it just me or does making any changes to the game solve anything? The good players will always outshine the less experienced players. I think the whole thing is negative. If you want to be good at anything in this world never mind eso you need to work towards it
  • Darkstorne
    Darkstorne
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    None of the above. (State below)
    If light attack weaving is the issue, but only accounts for ~15% of damage for "skilled" players, then lowering damage and increasing resource regen isn't going to solve anything. Seems to me it would make things worse:
    1. Most damage comes from skills. Weaving efficiently now essentially increases resource pools for skill spending. Weaving will result in higher damage in sustained (ie boss) fights.
    2. Most players struggling to compete with DPS output are trying to play the game like a solo TES game, where light attacks account for the majority of damage, and skill usage is more infrequent. "Immersive" playstyles, you could say. Nerfing light attack damage will only reduce their DPS even further.

    What I'd trial on the PTS for feedback:
    • I would leave light attacks as they are. No damage changes, no resource regen.
    • I would buff heavy attack damage considerably (maybe even more than the current PTS) but also attach resource costs to using them (rather than resource regen). The goal being to make traditional TES playstyles for solo PVE more viable, and raising damage for these players when we end up PUGing with them. It's okay if they can't hit the same DPS as those of us who can weave well.
    • I would double or triple passive resource regen to make up for the loss of light/heavy attack regen. However, using an attack/skill would reduce resource regen by ~50-75% for 1 second, like a short duration debuff. During normal combat, this would be constantly refreshed to stay permanently active while attacking. Defensive actions like blocking/dodging wouldn't trigger the debuff. Stop attacking for 1 second to start regenerating resources at speed again. This won't affect trash fights and solo PVE speed since those battles are over so fast anyway, but will encourage resource management during boss battles and in PVP again, like the game originally set out to do.

    Now most players have their DPS stay as it is now. Light/heavy attack players have their DPS buffed. Resource regen is handled in a realistic way, rather than the bizarre "refresh your stamina/magicka by attacking non-stop!" system. And of course, this means stamina/magicka regen is still worth investing in to reduce downtime in longer fights.
    Edited by Darkstorne on April 5, 2020 1:09PM
  • Rexy18
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    The whole idea of reducing the skill gap by lowering the ceiling (reducing LA damage) makes no sense, the potatoes are still going to be hitting the same numbers and will continue to struggle with the same content since DPS/mechanic requirements aren't being changed, so what's the point
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    Lysette wrote: »

    And faction change tokens make it even more pointless - not even ZOS is believing in this war.

    Did I miss something?
  • BRCOURTN
    BRCOURTN
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    Increase sustain to preMorrowind era to allow rotations to be more fluid and easier to maintain at the lower skill levels.
    Just give the hardcore vet players a "master mode" that makes all dungeons and trials in the game nearly impossible (including vma) then they have something to do and the rest of us can be happy just completing the content we have. Also dont tie any achievements to the mode. Just make it a *** measuring contest.
  • Daffen
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    I would do nothing.
    Ill just copy paste a comment i made on another thread.

    I think of weaving and animation cancelling comes as a sequence of button presses, similar to playing piano, you dont press the buttons as fast as possible to play, but you press them in a specific order one button at a time. (not excactly as hard as it is to play piano but at beginner level it is the same) the first note is light attack, then you press the second note which is one of 6 different notes (skills) , third note is also one of many different combination of notes possible and doesnt have to be played every time. (block, bar-swap, roll dodge, bash. You can do all 4 of these at the same time by blocking then bashing and bar swapping right before roll dodging). This is the main melody of eso gameplay (right hand when playing piano) , when fighting and doing damage you wont be doing much different than pressing these different notes, in the same specific order.

    All the other actions in the game (movement, sprinting, potions, jumping, moving mouse, getting on your horse) are performed at the same time the main melody is playing. This is the left hand when you are playing the piano. When practicing on a piano you usually practice the right and left hand individually first before trying to combine them and practice that. Playing the hands individually is easy for some, but harder for others. Thats why you start playing the song slow and start playing faster and faster once you get the hang of it.

    The left hand should be the easiest, but it can be hard to know which notes you should be playing and where they are located but after a while your hand automatically knows where to go and which notes to press.

    The right hand is a bit harder but is more fun to learn and sometimes require more practice to not stress out and press the buttons fanatically. After a while you learn the perfect rhythm of the melody and are sble to play it perfectly (equal to doing pve rotation on a training dummy).

    Once you have mastered the hands individually you have to start all over again and practice with both hands simultaneously. This makes it so your left hand no longer knows where to go and which notes to press and your right hand are pressing buttons randomly. So you have to start practicing slowly again, some start by moving around the training dummy while doing rotations. Once you are feeling comfortable you start playing the song at normal speed (doing dungeons or pvp) you will miss notes alot in the beginning, but you will get better. It will take months to be able to be comfortable to play the game with la weaving and animation cancelling.

    People need to embrace the skill gap and instead of trying to change the game, change themselves. I am much happier when new players come on the forums to get help rather than blame the game, not wanting to improve. And also, comparing the game to a piano is not 100% accurate as you use both hands to do light attack and skills the same way you use both to move your mouse and move with keyboard. Same when playing with a controller.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    None of the above. (State below)
    Lysette wrote: »
    If i would have a say in this, i would declare the war to be over and replace Cyro by a pve zone - pvpers could still do battlegrounds but otherwise it would be pve - and the problem would be gone. End of these endless fruitless debates.

    The skill gap includes pve and people's ability to participate in trials etc...
  • BejaProphet
    BejaProphet
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    None of the above. (State below)
    Clearly the only right move is to make the game turn based. But then people might use their turn poorly thus maintaining a gap.

    Therefore we must not only make the game turn based, but all actions must be the exact same with only graphical effects differing.

    I’m going with purple sparkles.
  • Neophyte
    Neophyte
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    I would do nothing.
    Lysette wrote: »

    And faction change tokens make it even more pointless - not even ZOS is believing in this war.

    Did I miss something?


    Yes faction change tokens are coming
  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    Implement a training system into the game where beginner players could practice and learn the existing system.
    People who learn the games mechanics and put the time in to practice should always be better and have an edge. Removing or nerfing things is an absurd baindaid fix that shouldn't even be considered. A training system seems like the more obvious choice. Even something like a newbie dungeon tailored to teach beginners how to play the game (ie: heal themselves, weave for more DPS, status effects, important buffs such as major brutality/sorcery, mending, etc). An NPC could follow them throughout the dungeon, allowing to reset the current fight they're on so they can retry if they wish.
    The current tutorial is so basic it doesn't really help anyone. CLICK UR MOUSE BUTTON TO DO STUFF is pretty much common sense.
  • Wifeaggro13
    Wifeaggro13
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    None of the above. (State below)
    Knowledge wrote: »

    The game was far better in 2016 then it is now. Though tam one was a game saver. It destroyed other things in the process. Like forcing g the player to learn how to actually play the game as they leveled and define their build to suit the role they wanted to play. Now it's a little to late the game is indefinitely broken.
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    Adjust certain classes to be easy for players of all skill levels while maintaining difficulty on others (ie. making mag sorc competitive and easier)
    I think we could tackle two problems at the same time - so let's make some builds easier than others.

    Currently every single build plays almost the same way. All DDs specs spam instants and LAs, all dps specs have brainless self-buffs to upkeep, and since ZOS keeps giving unique class abilities to other classes or shared skill lines, class and build homogeneity is really high to the point when your class choice basically only impacts what colour your abilities will be.

    So all DDs end up with the same twitchy spasming character if they want to do competitive dps. And some people may love this playstyle and some people may hate it, but currently there is no real choice. So buffing alternative builds would be a happy middle ground I think (add passives or some skill synergies or set bonuses that buff HA, people could then take these for a viable dps, or ignore them and keep their LA+AC rotations for also viable numbers). The AC fans could keep their fast-paced builds, and anti-AC folks could also have viable dps.

    This would keep people's favourite playstyles intact but would help reduce the skill gap and lead to a more consistent difficulty curve where encounters can be balanced around a similar average player performance - rather than making them easy enough to complete on randoms which makes it too easy for skilled players, or adjusting it based on min-max DDs making it impossible to do with pugs (I saw so many pug DDs fail on LoM Cancroid). So everyone's happy I think? :smile:
    Edited by bluebird on April 5, 2020 3:13PM
  • technohic
    technohic
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    None of the above. (State below)
    I mentioned in another thread that they went after abilities that are too overloaded and should have went the other way. In PVP, lower end players do not keep buffs or heals up. I mean 10 active ability slots and doing buffs and heals could take from 3-5 of them.

    For PVE ; it's a game design issue that pushes for DPS efficiency more than mechanics. There are some that are more mechanic based than others, but the focus of high end PVEers clearly seem to be their stats.
    Edited by technohic on April 5, 2020 3:50PM
  • Mortiis13
    Mortiis13
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    None of the above. (State below)
    Increasing Overland difficult.

    Let Overland enemy's doing dodgeroll, stuns, debuff and so on(depending on their role) .
    Let the damage and health as it is.
    Slightly increase of dmg and health in solo delves. Let enemy's also use aoe attacks that hurt (didn't kill u) if u don't avoid it,but kill u if u ignore 2 or 3 ov them. Public dungeon diffucult should be 3/4 of group dungeon. U must avoid or selfheal or be tanky enough to stand ur ground.
    Endbosses of non vet group dungeon should have some sort of one shot mechanic with a long CD and a long announcement of it.
    This "I can barefistbroleplay a drunken nord in a towel and still beat everything" and then enter group content and they never have to do dodge roll, breakfree, purge or what ever before is totally ***.
    U can face roll and that is the problem of the players skill gap, not what z0$ thinks.

    U should have to do the basic mechanics of eso in
    Overland content to get a higher floor, so u don't have to nerf the ones who want to work to be good.

    Just my 2 cents.

    All of that AFTER performance fixes, it's mostly unplayable these days. Can't do writs without 2 or 3 DC...
  • VoidCommander
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    None of the above. (State below)
    I would introduce an ability that cost resources, had a limited duration between 10-20 seconds, that would automatically weave light attacks for the duration. Players unable to light weave have an option to utilize all the light attack sets like zaan and relequen, while players who can light weave themselves don’t have to spend the resources, skill cast, or ability slot.
  • Lixiviant
    Lixiviant
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    None of the above. (State below)
    Probably learn how to play the game! Seriously, just git gud at whichever class you enjoy playing. I will have to say once you get into the CP level, it is difficult to roll a new toon and start over again.
    PS4/PS5/NA - And sometimes EU

    Daedroth might bite, just letting you know
  • big_ear_midget
    big_ear_midget
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    None of the above. (State below)
    there should be another poll option

    i`d suggest banning all n00bs from leaving the beginner quest until they can pull 100k dps on a 6 mil skelly, enforce beginner quest on all new players. DONT LET THEM OUT!1!1!1! EVER. They`ll soon learn... 😈

    Hey, its nothing Molag Bal wouldnt do. right???
    Edited by big_ear_midget on April 5, 2020 5:14PM
  • spartaxoxo
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    Increase sustain to preMorrowind era to allow rotations to be more fluid and easier to maintain at the lower skill levels.
    MattT1988 wrote: »
    I don’t get this attitude that it’s wrong to have a skill gap. Why the hell shouldn’t there be one? If people put in the effort to learn and get better why shouldn’t they be rewarded?

    It's not that there shouldn't be one is that the current one is too high. Some of the stuff has completion ratios of .1 percent and large swaths of the playerbase can't get into vet content because they don't have the schedules to fit with that small selection of players that can do it.

    When you have people who could otherwise be perfectly capable of learning but can't because they don't know the right people and content is too difficult to complete without those people using pickup groups, even incredibly dedicated pugs, then the gap is too high and not sustainable for long term health.
  • Kolzki
    Kolzki
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    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    I would teach others how to play, as I had been taught. You know, like an MMO community usually does.

    I totally agree with this. That's how I learnt.
  • Sergykid
    Sergykid
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    MattT1988 wrote: »
    I don’t get this attitude that it’s wrong to have a skill gap. Why the hell shouldn’t there be one? If people put in the effort to learn and get better why shouldn’t they be rewarded?

    yep, what we need is

    Sanguinor2 wrote: »
    Skillgap is not what we Need to close. We Need to close the Knowledge gap instead.
    What do you think makes a new Player do the incredibly low dps those at the Bottom have? A bad light attack Ratio? Or a very bad Setup with bad sets, bad abilities, bad Attributes, bad stats and bad/no Rotation?
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    None of the above. (State below)
    Some combination of various changes would help address the “skill gap”. in truth, I don’t think about it in those terms - my concern is that it is possible for there to be large (over 2x magnitude) disparities between characters specced as damage dealers in this game. Not gonna bother making a list because I know the way this forum swings and almost no one is going to recieve it well.
  • Everest_Lionheart
    Everest_Lionheart
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    None of the above. (State below)
    How about like this: A combo meter of sorts.

    Implement a small incremental bonus for allowing attack/skill animations to complete. Say something like 1-3% increments with a maximum stack up to 10%. First 3 full animations get a modest 1% each, next 2 get 2% each and the final (6th) skill gets 3% hitting the cap of 10% bonus damage. Interrupting the animation ticks the counter back by 1. Interrupting 2 in a row resets the bonus to zero. Bar swap = pause counter provided the previous animation completed.

    You would still leave weaving and AC for those that want to play that way.

    This way you put methodical thought out combat against fast and furious combat. Or you have to possibility to mix the two of you really have the skills. You could build up your combo and release an ultimate with a 10% bonus buff and then get a quick weave to finish off to opponent. Or you could wear your opponent down and then build a sufficient combo to finish them off. You could mix and match and come up with more viable options for all players.

    Speed vs Strategy.
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    A training system would be great, but in all honesty there are more resources available now to help players then there ever have been in the history of the game. As the old saying goes you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.
    That's the problem though: ZOS doesn't lead anyone to water. Hell, they can't even be bothered to give you a hint where the water is in many cases. Even something as simple as Jump Points goes completely unexplained in this game, when all it would take is one sentence. In my opinion, ZOS's refusal to explain even the simplest of things is downright hostile to new players.
  • Everest_Lionheart
    Everest_Lionheart
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    None of the above. (State below)
    Langeston wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    A training system would be great, but in all honesty there are more resources available now to help players then there ever have been in the history of the game. As the old saying goes you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.
    That's the problem though: ZOS doesn't lead anyone to water. Hell, they can't even be bothered to give you a hint where the water is in many cases. Even something as simple as Jump Points goes completely unexplained in this game, when all it would take is one sentence. In my opinion, ZOS's refusal to explain even the simplest of things is downright hostile to new players.

    They will lead you to the water but if you don’t have the craft bag you better not carry around too much of it 😆
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