At this point ZOS its fraud

Soul_Demon · March 2020

Update 25 gave us a full week of crashes every five min ....now the game is in unplayable state. This goes way past incompetence, its into outright fraud. I would like someone from ZOS to contact with a full refund for the price of the update and I will purchase in a few months when you have quality tested it and you can play the game. Until then you should not be holding on to anyone's money.

CyberOnEso · March 2020

No, that's not how any of this works.

This is in the Zenimax Legal Terms, that you agreed to :

ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.

And also this

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW AND SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZENIMAX, ITS LICENSORS AND RESELLERS DO NOT MAKE ANY REPRESENTATIONS, WARRANTIES OR GUARANTEES TO YOU REGARDING ANY SERVICE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, AVAILABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF A SERVICE. EACH SERVICE IS PROVIDED TO YOU ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS.

IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, AVAILABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF A SERVICE, YOU MAY CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT OR YOUR MEMBERSHIP TO THE SERVICE (SEE SECTION 7 ABOVE). AS NOTED IN THESE TERMS OF SERVICE, WHEN YOU CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT OR MEMBERSHIP TO A SERVICE YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE A REFUND OF THE FEES FOR THAT SERVICE UNLESS APPLICABLE LAW SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1) REQUIRES A REFUND BE GIVEN.

IN SOME JURISDICTIONS, INCLUDING THE EEA, UK, SWITZERLAND, RUSSIA, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND, TURKEY, JAPAN AND BRAZIL CERTAIN WARRANTIES MAY AUTOMATICALLY ARISE OR APPLY UNLESS THESE WARRANTIES ARE DISCLAIMED. SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZENIMAX AND ITS LICENSORS DISCLAIM AND EXCLUDE ALL SUCH WARRANTIES EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, IF AND TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD-PARTY RIGHTS, DATA ACCURACY, OR ACCURACY OF ANY OTHER INFORMATION OR CONTENT, SYSTEM INTEGRATION, AND QUIET ENJOYMENT WITH RESPECT TO ALL SERVICES AND ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES THAT ARISE FROM COURSE OF DEALING OR USAGE OF TRADE.

THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION 11 ONLY APPLY TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE NOT CONTRARY TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1).

NO WARRANTY IS GIVEN ABOUT THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, COMPLIANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS, SUITABILITY, OPERABILITY, CONDITION, NON-INTERFERENCE, WORKMANSHIP, AVAILABILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICES, ABSENCE OF DEFECTS, WHETHER LATENT OR PATENT, OR COMPLETENESS OF ANY INFORMATION OR MATERIAL CONTAINED OR PRESENTED ON A ZENIMAX WEBSITE. ZENIMAX DOES NOT ASSUME LIABILITY FOR ANY INABILITY BY YOU TO ACCESS, RECEIPT, PLAY OR USE ANY SERVICES. ZENIMAX DOES NOT GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS, RECEIPT, PLAY OR USE SERVICES AT TIMES OR LOCATIONS OF YOUR CHOOSING, OR THAT ZENIMAX WILL HAVE ADEQUATE CAPACITY FOR SERVICES AS A WHOLE OR IN ANY SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHIC AREA.

IN STATES OR JURISDICTIONS THAT PROHIBIT THE DISCLAIMER OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN WARRANTIES, ZENIMAX SHALL DISCLAIM AND EXCLUDE WARRANTIES TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW AND THE DURATION OF ANY SUCH WARRANTY THAT MAY NOT BE DISCLAIMED SHALL BE FOR THE SHORTEST DURATION PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

THIS SECTION 11 SHALL SURVIVE THE TERMINATION OF THESE TERMS OF SERVICE.

If you want a refund, which you may be entitled to, follow the steps on this support page https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

ManwithBeard9 · March 2020

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Update 25 gave us a full week of crashes every five min ....now the game is in unplayable state. This goes way past incompetence, its into outright fraud. I would like someone from ZOS to contact with a full refund for the price of the update and I will purchase in a few months when you have quality tested it and you can play the game. Until then you should not be holding on to anyone's money.

The update was free, meaning what broke the game, you didn't pay for.

Soul_Demon · March 2020

CyberOnEso wrote: »

No, that's not how any of this works.

This is in the Zenimax Legal Terms, that you agreed to :

ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.

And also this

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW AND SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZENIMAX, ITS LICENSORS AND RESELLERS DO NOT MAKE ANY REPRESENTATIONS, WARRANTIES OR GUARANTEES TO YOU REGARDING ANY SERVICE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, AVAILABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF A SERVICE. EACH SERVICE IS PROVIDED TO YOU ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS.

IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, AVAILABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF A SERVICE, YOU MAY CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT OR YOUR MEMBERSHIP TO THE SERVICE (SEE SECTION 7 ABOVE). AS NOTED IN THESE TERMS OF SERVICE, WHEN YOU CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT OR MEMBERSHIP TO A SERVICE YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE A REFUND OF THE FEES FOR THAT SERVICE UNLESS APPLICABLE LAW SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1) REQUIRES A REFUND BE GIVEN.

IN SOME JURISDICTIONS, INCLUDING THE EEA, UK, SWITZERLAND, RUSSIA, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND, TURKEY, JAPAN AND BRAZIL CERTAIN WARRANTIES MAY AUTOMATICALLY ARISE OR APPLY UNLESS THESE WARRANTIES ARE DISCLAIMED. SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZENIMAX AND ITS LICENSORS DISCLAIM AND EXCLUDE ALL SUCH WARRANTIES EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, IF AND TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD-PARTY RIGHTS, DATA ACCURACY, OR ACCURACY OF ANY OTHER INFORMATION OR CONTENT, SYSTEM INTEGRATION, AND QUIET ENJOYMENT WITH RESPECT TO ALL SERVICES AND ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES THAT ARISE FROM COURSE OF DEALING OR USAGE OF TRADE.

THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION 11 ONLY APPLY TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE NOT CONTRARY TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1).

NO WARRANTY IS GIVEN ABOUT THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, COMPLIANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS, SUITABILITY, OPERABILITY, CONDITION, NON-INTERFERENCE, WORKMANSHIP, AVAILABILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICES, ABSENCE OF DEFECTS, WHETHER LATENT OR PATENT, OR COMPLETENESS OF ANY INFORMATION OR MATERIAL CONTAINED OR PRESENTED ON A ZENIMAX WEBSITE. ZENIMAX DOES NOT ASSUME LIABILITY FOR ANY INABILITY BY YOU TO ACCESS, RECEIPT, PLAY OR USE ANY SERVICES. ZENIMAX DOES NOT GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS, RECEIPT, PLAY OR USE SERVICES AT TIMES OR LOCATIONS OF YOUR CHOOSING, OR THAT ZENIMAX WILL HAVE ADEQUATE CAPACITY FOR SERVICES AS A WHOLE OR IN ANY SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHIC AREA.

IN STATES OR JURISDICTIONS THAT PROHIBIT THE DISCLAIMER OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN WARRANTIES, ZENIMAX SHALL DISCLAIM AND EXCLUDE WARRANTIES TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW AND THE DURATION OF ANY SUCH WARRANTY THAT MAY NOT BE DISCLAIMED SHALL BE FOR THE SHORTEST DURATION PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

THIS SECTION 11 SHALL SURVIVE THE TERMINATION OF THESE TERMS OF SERVICE.

If you want a refund, which you may be entitled to, follow the steps on this support page https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

Appreciate the tip, but Harrowstorm was a DLC and part of the larger Greymore Chapter- that I paid for that the patch rendered unplayable. Even by the most reasonable standards the game must be in a playable state. It its not, they took money and did not supply a working version of the game. Fraud. Pretty simple stuff .....if you take money you MUST deliver a product that is at LEAST playable, if not you have defrauded the customer. So, I appreciate the TOS for the 'patch' but the problem is there is much more attached to the patch.

CyberOnEso · March 2020

That's exactly what I am saying.
They are under no obligation to have the game in a playable state.
It says it right there in the legal document, they can shut the servers down tomorrow and they are under no legal obligation to give anyone their money back.

This is where you may say that your country has laws to protect you against this.
But that has to be determined by a court. So unless you're willing to go to court over this, no they are under no obligation to 'deliver a product that is at least playable'.

ZENIMAX DOES NOT ASSUME LIABILITY FOR ANY INABILITY BY YOU TO ACCESS, RECEIPT, PLAY OR USE ANY SERVICES.

ManwithBeard9 · March 2020

Soul_Demon wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

No, that's not how any of this works.

This is in the Zenimax Legal Terms, that you agreed to :

ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.

And also this

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW AND SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZENIMAX, ITS LICENSORS AND RESELLERS DO NOT MAKE ANY REPRESENTATIONS, WARRANTIES OR GUARANTEES TO YOU REGARDING ANY SERVICE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, AVAILABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF A SERVICE. EACH SERVICE IS PROVIDED TO YOU ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS.

IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, AVAILABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF A SERVICE, YOU MAY CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT OR YOUR MEMBERSHIP TO THE SERVICE (SEE SECTION 7 ABOVE). AS NOTED IN THESE TERMS OF SERVICE, WHEN YOU CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT OR MEMBERSHIP TO A SERVICE YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE A REFUND OF THE FEES FOR THAT SERVICE UNLESS APPLICABLE LAW SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1) REQUIRES A REFUND BE GIVEN.

IN SOME JURISDICTIONS, INCLUDING THE EEA, UK, SWITZERLAND, RUSSIA, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND, TURKEY, JAPAN AND BRAZIL CERTAIN WARRANTIES MAY AUTOMATICALLY ARISE OR APPLY UNLESS THESE WARRANTIES ARE DISCLAIMED. SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZENIMAX AND ITS LICENSORS DISCLAIM AND EXCLUDE ALL SUCH WARRANTIES EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, IF AND TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD-PARTY RIGHTS, DATA ACCURACY, OR ACCURACY OF ANY OTHER INFORMATION OR CONTENT, SYSTEM INTEGRATION, AND QUIET ENJOYMENT WITH RESPECT TO ALL SERVICES AND ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES THAT ARISE FROM COURSE OF DEALING OR USAGE OF TRADE.

THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION 11 ONLY APPLY TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE NOT CONTRARY TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1).

NO WARRANTY IS GIVEN ABOUT THE QUALITY, FUNCTIONALITY, COMPLIANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS, SUITABILITY, OPERABILITY, CONDITION, NON-INTERFERENCE, WORKMANSHIP, AVAILABILITY OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICES, ABSENCE OF DEFECTS, WHETHER LATENT OR PATENT, OR COMPLETENESS OF ANY INFORMATION OR MATERIAL CONTAINED OR PRESENTED ON A ZENIMAX WEBSITE. ZENIMAX DOES NOT ASSUME LIABILITY FOR ANY INABILITY BY YOU TO ACCESS, RECEIPT, PLAY OR USE ANY SERVICES. ZENIMAX DOES NOT GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS, RECEIPT, PLAY OR USE SERVICES AT TIMES OR LOCATIONS OF YOUR CHOOSING, OR THAT ZENIMAX WILL HAVE ADEQUATE CAPACITY FOR SERVICES AS A WHOLE OR IN ANY SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHIC AREA.

IN STATES OR JURISDICTIONS THAT PROHIBIT THE DISCLAIMER OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN WARRANTIES, ZENIMAX SHALL DISCLAIM AND EXCLUDE WARRANTIES TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW AND THE DURATION OF ANY SUCH WARRANTY THAT MAY NOT BE DISCLAIMED SHALL BE FOR THE SHORTEST DURATION PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

THIS SECTION 11 SHALL SURVIVE THE TERMINATION OF THESE TERMS OF SERVICE.

If you want a refund, which you may be entitled to, follow the steps on this support page https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

Appreciate the tip, but Harrowstorm was a DLC and part of the larger Greymore Chapter- that I paid for that the patch rendered unplayable. Even by the most reasonable standards the game must be in a playable state. It its not, they took money and did not supply a working version of the game. Fraud. Pretty simple stuff .....if you take money you MUST deliver a product that is at LEAST playable, if not you have defrauded the customer. So, I appreciate the TOS for the 'patch' but the problem is there is much more attached to the patch.

The dungeons are the paid content, not the base game update. And frankly, the game is largely playable. Is it a "great" place, no, could it be worse, absolutely. You can still log in and play.

MJallday · March 2020

Your only recourse is to Persue the matter through the courts under the provision of goods and services act, trading standards or consumer credit act

Because frankly ZOS can write what it wants, those are laws which overrule what ZOS says

Of course it does mean going to a solicitor, which practically no one will do. So you’re stuffed tbh

Soul_Demon · March 2020

MJallday wrote: »

Your only recourse is to Persue the matter through the courts under the provision of goods and services act, trading standards or consumer credit act

Because frankly ZOS can write what it wants, those are laws which overrule what ZOS says

Of course it does mean going to a solicitor, which practically no one will do. So you’re stuffed tbh

Finally, someone who isnt looking to ingratiate themselves with ZOS who has a clue.
"The Magnuson-Moss Act (1973) sets minimum standards for product warranties, makes a company that financed the sale responsible for product defects, and creates liability (financial responsibility) for "implied" warranties (when the circumstances show that a warranty of lack of defects was intended) as well as express (specific) warranties."

With the 'patch' being rolled up into a DLC that is part of a larger sale of Greymore---its all wrapped up into the new chapter and as a consumer I have the right to expect a working product. Claims in ANY way this is currently functional are ludicrous. I play primarily PvP and only buy the products to gain access to the gear in DLC's and Chapters- PvP is NOT PLAYABLE AT ALL RIGHT NOW. ZOS knows this and is not taking appropriate actions to resolve the issues. One full week of waiting while disconnected every five min and now the game skills will not fire with more crippling lag than ever before and guess what, still being crashed out- no comments from ZOS and no foreseeable fix even being worked on being put out to the consumers.

I am required to attempt resolution with the company first, in writing- before pursuing any of the many consumer resources available for pursing fraudulent sellers. This will satisfy that requirement.

CyberOnEso · March 2020

Have fun with that,
Zenimax employ actual lawyers. Have fun getting the fact that 'My skills fire to slow' count as a breach of the warranty.

Also you have agreed to this

Limited Remedy. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH ZENIMAX OR ITS LICENSORS OR RESELLERS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THESE TERMS OF SERVICE OR ANY SERVICE IS TO STOP USING, PLAY, RECEIVING OR ACCESSING THE SERVICE AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT, MEMBERSHIP.

Subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to restrict, suspend or terminate these Terms of Service and Your Account as provided in these Terms of Service including without limitation restricting, suspending or terminating any licenses, and/or access to or receipt, play or use of one or more of the Services.

In addition, ZeniMax reserves the right to restrict, suspend or terminate these Terms of Service and Your Account immediately and without notice to You if (i) You breach these Terms of Service, (ii) infringe or violate any third party rights, including without limitation third party intellectual rights, (iii) if ZeniMax is unable to verify or authenticate any information You provide to ZeniMax, or (iv) upon Your access to or Your play, receipt or use of Services, for any other activity whatsoever that is, in ZeniMax’s sole discretion, unlawful, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of these Terms of Service or a Service, including without limitation Your actions in a Game(s) or forums.

Upon ZeniMax’s decision to restrict, suspend, or terminate these Terms of Service, You will lose access to Your Account.

So if you want to sue them over this law, they almost certainly will immediately shut down your account; and you will lose, because saying 'This game is literally unplayable', does't overwrite the clearly written warrenty that you agreed to.

Furthermore The Magnuson-Moss Act , just requires manufacturers and sellers who do offer written warranties to clearly disclose and describe the terms of those warranties, they did do that, and saying 'PVP is litterally unplayable, doesn't overrule that'

Soul_Demon · March 2020

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Have fun with that,
Zenimax employ actual lawyers. Have fun getting the fact that 'My skills fire to slow' count as a breach of the warranty.

Also you have agreed to this

Limited Remedy. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH ZENIMAX OR ITS LICENSORS OR RESELLERS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THESE TERMS OF SERVICE OR ANY SERVICE IS TO STOP USING, PLAY, RECEIVING OR ACCESSING THE SERVICE AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT, MEMBERSHIP.

Subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to restrict, suspend or terminate these Terms of Service and Your Account as provided in these Terms of Service including without limitation restricting, suspending or terminating any licenses, and/or access to or receipt, play or use of one or more of the Services.

In addition, ZeniMax reserves the right to restrict, suspend or terminate these Terms of Service and Your Account immediately and without notice to You if (i) You breach these Terms of Service, (ii) infringe or violate any third party rights, including without limitation third party intellectual rights, (iii) if ZeniMax is unable to verify or authenticate any information You provide to ZeniMax, or (iv) upon Your access to or Your play, receipt or use of Services, for any other activity whatsoever that is, in ZeniMax’s sole discretion, unlawful, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of these Terms of Service or a Service, including without limitation Your actions in a Game(s) or forums.

Upon ZeniMax’s decision to restrict, suspend, or terminate these Terms of Service, You will lose access to Your Account.

So if you want to sue them over this law, they almost certainly will immediately shut down your account; and you will lose, because saying 'This game is literally unplayable', does't overwrite the clearly written warrenty that you agreed to.

Furthermore The Magnuson-Moss Act , just requires manufacturers and sellers who do offer written warranties to clearly disclose and describe the terms of those warranties, they did do that, and saying 'PVP is litterally unplayable, doesn't overrule that'

The free resources that pursue this are many....free. And the portion you claim about warranty is correct, but you glossed right over the part where it specifies that its PRIOR to purchase, not after or agreed to with base game and carried over. You apparently did not see the part about "responsible for product defects, and creates liability (financial responsibility) for "implied" warranties"

You seem just intelligent enough to follow links and read the first paragraph and no more- you might want to consider just what part you play in this unless I am mistaken your name isnt "ZOS" and this was not addressed to you yet you seem invested in its outcome. Something you wish to disclose now?

CyberOnEso · March 2020

It says that

the terms of any written warranty on a consumer product be made available to the consumer (or prospective consumer) prior to the sale of the product to him.

Which was available prior to purchase.

Regarding "responsible for product defects, and creates liability (financial responsibility) for "implied" warranties"
That just refers to product liability , which refers mainly to when a product is unsafe, not when your skills take too long to fire in a video game.

And you posted this on a public forum...

Earthewen · March 2020

Let's not lose sight of the fact that there is also "truth in advertising" that supersedes anything in the TOS. Now we all know there are problems in some MMOs. There always will be. However, there does seem to be a pattern to the problems that we experience in this game. Things get fixed and then suddenly after a patch about six months (or longer) later, they reappear. I've got to wonder why that happens.

I have had an issue with the UI that has been going on for six months now and no one will address it. On the contrary, they closed the ticket on their end and won't let me open a new one for the same issue.

There is right and wrong in business, even in the gaming business. We all know good customer service whether it has to do with broken things in game or keeping the culture pleasant to be in. Can any of us say that ZOS has done those things well and regularly well across the board for everyone?

idk · March 2020

Pretty sure that is not how it works.

If OP wants to ask for a refund the instructions are in the support section. I have provided a link for convenience.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

Unless there are local laws where OP lives that will force Zos to refund their money I do not hold out much hope for them. Good luck.

Edit: Also, while the work Zos has done has decreased the performance of the game that is not a fraud. OP might want to brush up on what actually constitutes fraud. Also, OP seems to not understand that much of the testing requires players to participate. There bugs that will not show up until there is a large load. It is pretty obvious.

Soul_Demon · March 2020

idk wrote: »

Pretty sure that is not how it works.

If OP wants to ask for a refund the instructions are in the support section. I have provided a link for convenience.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

Unless there are local laws where OP lives that will force Zos to refund their money I do not hold out much hope for them. Good luck.

Edit: Also, while the work Zos has done has decreased the performance of the game that is not a fraud. OP might want to brush up on what actually constitutes fraud. Also, OP seems to not understand that much of the testing requires players to participate. There bugs that will not show up until there is a large load. It is pretty obvious.

OP is well aware of what constitutes fraud....furthermore the OP has politely held hands and walked two posters through the process making it clear they were not intended to be the recipients of post but given the limited and unidirectional communication methods Zenimax Online Studios allows customers to use (trouble tickets and the bug reporting forum) they were simply utilizing the provided routes. Again, appreciate the 'tips' you offer, but I have other routes I am planning to use if there is no resolution but intend to go as far as possible with contacting Zenimax first to do my own due diligence.

idk · March 2020

Soul_Demon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Pretty sure that is not how it works.

If OP wants to ask for a refund the instructions are in the support section. I have provided a link for convenience.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

Unless there are local laws where OP lives that will force Zos to refund their money I do not hold out much hope for them. Good luck.

Edit: Also, while the work Zos has done has decreased the performance of the game that is not a fraud. OP might want to brush up on what actually constitutes fraud. Also, OP seems to not understand that much of the testing requires players to participate. There bugs that will not show up until there is a large load. It is pretty obvious.

OP is well aware of what constitutes fraud....furthermore the OP has politely held hands and walked two posters through the process making it clear they were not intended to be the recipients of post but given the limited and unidirectional communication methods Zenimax Online Studios allows customers to use (trouble tickets and the bug reporting forum) they were simply utilizing the provided routes. Again, appreciate the 'tips' you offer, but I have other routes I am planning to use if there is no resolution but intend to go as far as possible with contacting Zenimax first to do my own due diligence.

Glad the OP is aware of what Fraud actually is so they are aware their comments are not describing fraud.

I expect OP is also aware that creating a thread in the forums is communication to everyone who participates in these forums. That is a fact that should be obvious. So if OP thinks this thread is a conversation only with Zos they could not be more wrong.

Again, that link pretty much spells things out concerning a refund. Glad I can help.

Soul_Demon · March 2020

idk wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Pretty sure that is not how it works.

If OP wants to ask for a refund the instructions are in the support section. I have provided a link for convenience.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

Unless there are local laws where OP lives that will force Zos to refund their money I do not hold out much hope for them. Good luck.

Edit: Also, while the work Zos has done has decreased the performance of the game that is not a fraud. OP might want to brush up on what actually constitutes fraud. Also, OP seems to not understand that much of the testing requires players to participate. There bugs that will not show up until there is a large load. It is pretty obvious.

OP is well aware of what constitutes fraud....furthermore the OP has politely held hands and walked two posters through the process making it clear they were not intended to be the recipients of post but given the limited and unidirectional communication methods Zenimax Online Studios allows customers to use (trouble tickets and the bug reporting forum) they were simply utilizing the provided routes. Again, appreciate the 'tips' you offer, but I have other routes I am planning to use if there is no resolution but intend to go as far as possible with contacting Zenimax first to do my own due diligence.

Glad the OP is aware of what Fraud actually is so they are aware their comments are not describing fraud.

I expect OP is also aware that creating a thread in the forums is communication to everyone who participates in these forums. That is a fact that should be obvious. So if OP thinks this thread is a conversation only with Zos they could not be more wrong.

Again, that link pretty much spells things out concerning a refund. Glad I can help.

Do me a favor since you seem insistent on getting in the last word...forward this thread to Mr. Frank Morales, Risk Manager
Mr. Matt Firor, Studio General Manager. I look forward the next tid bit of help you offer those who are not seeking your help. And of course I am aware that the forums have its share of 'experts' on any given subject who are woefully misdirected and often waiting to be called on it and free to post as well. Not quite my thing right now, but thanks for the 'entertainment'

Tandor · March 2020

Good luck convincing ZOS or the courts that the game is unplayable. There are at this moment 17,836 playing just on the PC servers through Steam alone.

idk · March 2020

Soul_Demon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Pretty sure that is not how it works.

If OP wants to ask for a refund the instructions are in the support section. I have provided a link for convenience.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

Unless there are local laws where OP lives that will force Zos to refund their money I do not hold out much hope for them. Good luck.

Edit: Also, while the work Zos has done has decreased the performance of the game that is not a fraud. OP might want to brush up on what actually constitutes fraud. Also, OP seems to not understand that much of the testing requires players to participate. There bugs that will not show up until there is a large load. It is pretty obvious.

OP is well aware of what constitutes fraud....furthermore the OP has politely held hands and walked two posters through the process making it clear they were not intended to be the recipients of post but given the limited and unidirectional communication methods Zenimax Online Studios allows customers to use (trouble tickets and the bug reporting forum) they were simply utilizing the provided routes. Again, appreciate the 'tips' you offer, but I have other routes I am planning to use if there is no resolution but intend to go as far as possible with contacting Zenimax first to do my own due diligence.

Glad the OP is aware of what Fraud actually is so they are aware their comments are not describing fraud.

I expect OP is also aware that creating a thread in the forums is communication to everyone who participates in these forums. That is a fact that should be obvious. So if OP thinks this thread is a conversation only with Zos they could not be more wrong.

Again, that link pretty much spells things out concerning a refund. Glad I can help.

Do me a favor since you seem insistent on getting in the last word...forward this thread to Mr. Frank Morales, Risk Manager
Mr. Matt Firor, Studio General Manager. I look forward the next tid bit of help you offer those who are not seeking your help. And of course I am aware that the forums have its share of 'experts' on any given subject who are woefully misdirected and often waiting to be called on it and free to post as well. Not quite my thing right now, but thanks for the 'entertainment'

It has nothing to do with getting in the last word and it really seems you are just wanting to argue for the sake of it. This seems pretty clear as my first post you argued with mostly directed you to the help article for obtaining a refund.

To be helpful in case you missed the first link I will provide the source of help once again. Heed the sage advice or argue about it being presented, idc.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund

Cavedog · March 2020

CyberOnEso wrote: »

That's exactly what I am saying.
They are under no obligation to have the game in a playable state.
It says it right there in the legal document, they can shut the servers down tomorrow and they are under no legal obligation to give anyone their money back.

This is where you may say that your country has laws to protect you against this.
But that has to be determined by a court. So unless you're willing to go to court over this, no they are under no obligation to 'deliver a product that is at least playable'.

ZENIMAX DOES NOT ASSUME LIABILITY FOR ANY INABILITY BY YOU TO ACCESS, RECEIPT, PLAY OR USE ANY SERVICES.

You can't possibly believe the part of your post the I put in bold. And if you do....well....

CyberOnEso · March 2020

Of course that's the case, if they shut the servers down for good tomorrow then what could anyone do about it, of course they're not obligated to so.

Take bless online, they shut the servers down completely, no one can play that game anymore, and that was completely within their right to do so.

You may not like it, but of course they're not legally obligated to make your skills go off correctly. They are not legally obligated to allow you to connect to the servers, or even to run the servers.

Of course I would like the game to be playable, of course, I like the game. But I am not talking about desire or what I think is morally correct, or even what is in Zenimax's best interest as a business.

ZeniMax may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Game at any time and ZeniMax may also impose limits on certain features or restrict your access to parts or all of the Game without notice or liability.

[Deleted User] · March 2020

Hello everyone,

With this thread derailing a bit and leaning more towards legal action discussions, we're going to go ahead and close it down. For further posts be sure to keep the Forum Rules in mind and to avoid flaming to prevent thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.