Pvp whiners must suffer

Roger_kun · February 2020

Why when I watch nerfs for pve they almost always come from crying pvp players on the forums? "Oh, we have hands from the ass and we don’t know how to play, so nerf this skill, this passive, this set and shields and this and that." How much can you endure this? This is a PvE-oriented game, you want a good PvP - there are many other projects where it is implemented much better and more interesting than in the ECO.

Over the past year, the whole game is adjusted only for pvp. Pve players used to have many interesting builds, each class had its own tricks. Now in Pva there are two or three meta sets for DD, there is simply nothing more to take. Why? Because pvp players forced their nagging to unify classes. All spam abilities - one damage, one price, the only difference is in the animation. What will happen next? Will all classes differ only in skill animation? But pvp players will be happy, they will finally have a BALANCE.

VaranisArano · February 2020

Keep in mind that the reason you mostly see PVP whiners is because Molag Kena, Domihaus, and the coalition of trial bosses don't have forum accounts. If they did, I suspect we'd see more complaints about overused meta sets, overpowered skills and the like - things that the Devs absolutely notice, but don't always talk about.

We already see PVEers complaining when their DPS is a fraction behind everyone else or one class dominates the trials teams. Its the PVE equivalent of "I always get picked last in gym class! ZOS, nerf them or buff me!"

I mean, I won't deny that a number of PVPers need to L2Play instead of complaining. But its also apparent that ZOS does balance ESO with PVE in mind - it just blindsides most PVE players because as far as they are concerned, power creep is a good thing. Not so much from the Dev's perspective.

LeHarrt91 · February 2020

^^^
Pretty much this, Mobs cant complain.

Stigant · February 2020

Roger_kun wrote: »

... This is a PvE-oriented game...

Right here is where you are wrong ... this game was anounced and released as PvX game where even the state of your home PvP campaign influenced your PvE performance, because those buffs transfered .. very interesting and inovative approach that was very badly implemented and therefore abandoned.

PvP in this game is decent and given the sheer amount of options (skill setups, set bonuses and set setups, race/class setups etc. etc...) given to us, its suprisingly "balanced" for what it is, but at the end people who PvP also play PvE and other way around so stop generalizing please ...
Althought, I'd be so bold to say that more PvP oriented players play more of PvE content than the other way around, so when PvPers ask for adjustments they do it while also having PvE experience. If you're one of those pure PvE players, try to understand that maybe there are people that have more experience and also more insight about the game, or maybe just different priorities... in the end the developers are the ones who implement the changes, not players that give feedback (or whine as you call it).

Noone has to suffer, to suffer is a choice and seems you chose to suffer from balancing changes way more ... dont wish your suffering onto other people.

Edited for typos

Alienoutlaw · February 2020

so removing multi-cast from healing springs was done with PvE in mind? i struggle to see how this helped in any way at all

Joinovikova · February 2020

Roger_kun wrote: »

Why when I watch nerfs for pve they almost always come from crying pvp players on the forums? "Oh, we have hands from the ass and we don’t know how to play, so nerf this skill, this passive, this set and shields and this and that." How much can you endure this? This is a PvE-oriented game, you want a good PvP - there are many other projects where it is implemented much better and more interesting than in the ECO.

Over the past year, the whole game is adjusted only for pvp. Pve players used to have many interesting builds, each class had its own tricks. Now in Pva there are two or three meta sets for DD, there is simply nothing more to take. Why? Because pvp players forced their nagging to unify classes. All spam abilities - one damage, one price, the only difference is in the animation. What will happen next? Will all classes differ only in skill animation? But pvp players will be happy, they will finally have a BALANCE.

balanced changes is necesary requirment in PVP. From PVE perspective. You just need to be able to reach DPS, DPH or tanking vet trials requrements on each class. This is not PVE oriented game. and your argument can be also used to just leave there is much better mmo with more and better PVE cont

KillsAllElves · February 2020

Pve oriented game?

Theres a reason why there are multi color coordinated factions, its lore and bethesda just so happened to pick this era in the ES timeline because it made perfect sense for an ES MMO.
The pvp part is there for those who wish not to just pve all the time, pvp and pve are options in the same video game and you are not forced into playing pvp if you dont like it.

5 years forum users have been complaining that pvp and pve should be balanced seperately not doing so is lazy studio practice nothing more!

Find another video game to play?

Freakin_Hytte · February 2020

Sure there are a lot of nerf threads, but if you look on who starts them you'll see it's basically the same handful of people 90% of the time and I really don't think zos take most of what they say seriously as it's often biased and if you read the thread you'll see a vast majority hates nerfs. So I don't really understand what you mean with the "pvp whiners".

And come on, do you honestly think pvp players asked for onslaught change?
Do you think we asked for constant changes to dizzy?
Do you think we asked for putting dw in the trash can as viable for pvp?
Do you think we asked for a complete overhaul to shield?
Do you think we asked for all the back and fourth during the latest patches?
Do you think we asked for off balance changes?

If you don't know the answer to these questions, I'll answer you: No.
It was all zos and most of were just confused for the changes.

Kalixte · February 2020

Roger_kun wrote: »

Why when I watch nerfs for pve they almost always come from crying pvp players on the forums? "Oh, we have hands from the ass and we don’t know how to play, so nerf this skill, this passive, this set and shields and this and that." How much can you endure this? This is a PvE-oriented game, you want a good PvP - there are many other projects where it is implemented much better and more interesting than in the ECO.

Over the past year, the whole game is adjusted only for pvp. Pve players used to have many interesting builds, each class had its own tricks. Now in Pva there are two or three meta sets for DD, there is simply nothing more to take. Why? Because pvp players forced their nagging to unify classes. All spam abilities - one damage, one price, the only difference is in the animation. What will happen next? Will all classes differ only in skill animation? But pvp players will be happy, they will finally have a BALANCE.

COME 1V1 ALIK'R, ASAP!

Reverb · February 2020

Pve’ers cry to nerf content instead.

Reverb · February 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

so removing multi-cast from healing springs was done with PvE in mind? i struggle to see how this helped in any way at all

Actually it was. Springs was nerfed because of the over reliance on it had made pve healing stale. Many, maybe even most, of the balance decisions made by the combat teams have had pve in mind.

Permablocking was determined to be a problem in pve as well as pvp. Cost reduction was nerfed due to infinite sustain in pve. Springs and Orbs nerfed because the pve healing meta was stale. Sharpened nerf was 100% due to pve overperforming (and frankly was long overdue). CP cap due to power creep in pve creating an insurmountable gap for new players to close. Proc sets were nerfed because when dps’ing vet content 3 of my top 5 sources of damage were entirely from what I was wearing and not what I was doing.

YES some nerfs were exclusively due to overperforming in pvp. Sloads and Goliath come to mind easily, probably shields too. But contrary to the community’s best tantrums, most changes people dislike are NOT rooted in pvp.

Roger_kun · February 2020

Stigant wrote: »

Roger_kun wrote: »

... This is a PvE-oriented game...

Right here is where you are wrong ... this game was anounced and released as PvX game

Ok. How many DLCs have been issued for pve and how many for pvp?
How many additions have been issued for pve and how many for pvp?
What besides a pair of skills is there in pvp, what can you do without in pve? And now - can a pvp player do without pve?

Well, is the game still pvx?

Roger_kun · February 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

balanced changes is necesary requirment in PVP. From PVE perspective. You just need to be able to reach DPS, DPH or tanking vet trials requrements on each class. This is not PVE oriented game. and your argument can be also used to just leave there is much better mmo with more and better PVE cont

There's no PvE oriented MMORPG except GW2, ESO and WoW. WoW is dead. So, only GW2 or ESO. I know TES lore well, so...

JanTanhide · February 2020

Roger_kun wrote: »

Why when I watch nerfs for pve they almost always come from crying pvp players on the forums? "Oh, we have hands from the ass and we don’t know how to play, so nerf this skill, this passive, this set and shields and this and that." How much can you endure this? This is a PvE-oriented game, you want a good PvP - there are many other projects where it is implemented much better and more interesting than in the ECO.

Over the past year, the whole game is adjusted only for pvp. Pve players used to have many interesting builds, each class had its own tricks. Now in Pva there are two or three meta sets for DD, there is simply nothing more to take. Why? Because pvp players forced their nagging to unify classes. All spam abilities - one damage, one price, the only difference is in the animation. What will happen next? Will all classes differ only in skill animation? But pvp players will be happy, they will finally have a BALANCE.

You are correct. Look at the forum threads and most of what we see is pvpers crying for nerfs. It never ends. Now wait for the PVP crowd to jump on your thread and say "It ain't so!". LOL. ZOS listens to the smallest community in ESO and hurts everyone when they make changes for PVP.

I've lost dozens of friends and guildies over the past five years due to these absurd "balance" changes from ZOS.

What gets me is there is no such thing as "Balance" in PVP. It just is not possible.

UrbanMonk · February 2020

Is it a Nerf Sorc Thread now?

Stigant · February 2020

Roger_kun wrote: »

Stigant wrote: »

Roger_kun wrote: »

... This is a PvE-oriented game...

Right here is where you are wrong ... this game was anounced and released as PvX game

Ok. How many DLCs have been issued for pve and how many for pvp?
How many additions have been issued for pve and how many for pvp?
What besides a pair of skills is there in pvp, what can you do without in pve? And now - can a pvp player do without pve?

Well, is the game still pvx?

All Players who want to PvP have to do some PvE content and many are more of PvX players than pure PvP players. So for players that want to PvP and have fun with it it still is a PvX game

Roger_kun · February 2020

Reverb wrote: »

Actually it was. Springs was nerfed because of the over reliance on it had made pve healing stale. Many, maybe even most, of the balance decisions made by the combat teams have had pve in mind.

Permablocking was determined to be a problem in pve as well as pvp. Cost reduction was nerfed due to infinite sustain in pve. Springs and Orbs nerfed because the pve healing meta was stale. Sharpened nerf was 100% due to pve overperforming (and frankly was long overdue). CP cap due to power creep in pve creating an insurmountable gap for new players to close. Proc sets were nerfed because when dps’ing vet content 3 of my top 5 sources of damage were entirely from what I was wearing and not what I was doing.

YES some nerfs were exclusively due to overperforming in pvp. Sloads and Goliath come to mind easily, probably shields too. But contrary to the community’s best tantrums, most changes people dislike are NOT rooted in pvp.

Permablock was a problem, I don’t even argue. And the massive nerf of sustain in 2016 (correct, if my memory serves me, the first big nerf of sustain in the game) - I was for these changes.
But now, most of the changes are aimed at unifying classes for ease of playing pvp. Nightblade lost a minor berserker. Was it critical for pve? Not. DPS was not op - there were classes that showed the same damage without this buff. But now the nb has become absolutely useless in pve. He does not give the group buffs that cannot be obtained from another source, he does not give the group treatment, he does not give the group damage

Roger_kun · February 2020

JanTanhide wrote: »

Roger_kun wrote: »

Why when I watch nerfs for pve they almost always come from crying pvp players on the forums? "Oh, we have hands from the ass and we don’t know how to play, so nerf this skill, this passive, this set and shields and this and that." How much can you endure this? This is a PvE-oriented game, you want a good PvP - there are many other projects where it is implemented much better and more interesting than in the ECO.

Over the past year, the whole game is adjusted only for pvp. Pve players used to have many interesting builds, each class had its own tricks. Now in Pva there are two or three meta sets for DD, there is simply nothing more to take. Why? Because pvp players forced their nagging to unify classes. All spam abilities - one damage, one price, the only difference is in the animation. What will happen next? Will all classes differ only in skill animation? But pvp players will be happy, they will finally have a BALANCE.

You are correct. Look at the forum threads and most of what we see is pvpers crying for nerfs. It never ends. Now wait for the PVP crowd to jump on your thread and say "It ain't so!". LOL. ZOS listens to the smallest community in ESO and hurts everyone when they make changes for PVP.

I've lost dozens of friends and guildies over the past five years due to these absurd "balance" changes from ZOS.

What gets me is there is no such thing as "Balance" in PVP. It just is not possible.

Cat says "meow-meow", dog says "woof-woof", PvP player says "There's no class balance in game" XD

x48rph · February 2020

Roger_kun wrote: »

Why when I watch nerfs for pve they almost always come from crying pvp players on the forums? "Oh, we have hands from the ass and we don’t know how to play, so nerf this skill, this passive, this set and shields and this and that." How much can you endure this? This is a PvE-oriented game, you want a good PvP - there are many other projects where it is implemented much better and more interesting than in the ECO.

Over the past year, the whole game is adjusted only for pvp. Pve players used to have many interesting builds, each class had its own tricks. Now in Pva there are two or three meta sets for DD, there is simply nothing more to take. Why? Because pvp players forced their nagging to unify classes. All spam abilities - one damage, one price, the only difference is in the animation. What will happen next? Will all classes differ only in skill animation? But pvp players will be happy, they will finally have a BALANCE.

There's only ever been a couple meta sets for DD at any given time. That's like the definition of meta sets, the best ones that everyone uses. The sets might occasionally change but there will always be those couple of top performers. You can certainly make plenty of interesting builds like always with the rest of the sets and as always, they will be slightly under performing compared to whatever the current meta is, nothing has really changed here.

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

so removing multi-cast from healing springs was done with PvE in mind? i struggle to see how this helped in any way at all

Removing multicast form healing springs was done with performance in mind and to nerf healing in PvE some, same way as spamming orbs which was used way more in PvE. Had absolutely zero to do with PvP

zvavi · February 2020

What are you even on about guys? Last pve nerf i remember cause of pvp is earthgore. Thats like old news of old news, where did you see PvP nerfs since then? Stop accusing pvpers for no reason.

Brandathorbel · February 2020

Roger_kun wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

balanced changes is necesary requirment in PVP. From PVE perspective. You just need to be able to reach DPS, DPH or tanking vet trials requrements on each class. This is not PVE oriented game. and your argument can be also used to just leave there is much better mmo with more and better PVE cont

There's no PvE oriented MMORPG except GW2, ESO and WoW. WoW is dead. So, only GW2 or ESO. I know TES lore well, so...

WoW is dead? Doesnt it still have about triple to quadriple the amount of active players as this?

ZOS_Mika · February 2020

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