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Mag classes need a buff.
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Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ill agree that mag is behind stam in solo play but as a group gets bigger the more magicka shines.2 -
GRXRG✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
I'm wearing Julianos and New Moon Acolyte. Over 3000 spell damage unbuffed and guys are laughing off my "burst". I eventually run out of resources and don't have enough magicka to attack or heal if the fight goes on too long. Elemental drain be like, "Aight, Imma head out."
And people talk me tanky noob with zero damage lol I don't know of they just troll me or i am start to thinking my character is bugger or something, sure with that high max mag i have big shields but once are down I receive 10k + assassin's scourge, 8k sub assault(which is lame), 9k executioner spammed nonstop even 5 times, while my frags hit like wet noodle.0 -
Magsorc doesnt need anything, come on folks. My magblade, however needs a buff. i feel every time a thread like this gets made the fact that magblade sucks, and many other mag issues, are always over shadowed by all the whiny magsorcs.Edited by Djinn_al_zahir on January 30, 2020 8:48AMMan of la Mancha, DC, Nightblade2 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Main problem with balance atm is the high level of passive mitigation and passive (and active healing), basicly healing is way overtuned atm and its impossible to die if youre good at healing yourself unless youre basicly zerged. Medium armor builds are weak other than ganking specifically and magblade and magsorc certainly need something..
PC EU
PvP only1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...
These specs are being totally disingenuous. A high max mag magsorc will go around rocking most classes hard, they’re wrecking machines. Their complaints are that in a rock/paper/scissors setting they can't do it to everyone.
As for a MagWarden being great in duels, well you did run away and they didn’t kill you. That’s the only weakness of that class.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...
These specs are being totally disingenuous. A high max mag magsorc will go around rocking most classes hard, they’re wrecking machines. Their complaints are that in a rock/paper/scissors setting they can't do it to everyone.
As for a MagWarden being great in duels, well you did run away and they didn’t kill you. That’s the only weakness of that class.
What are you talking about, man? On a balanced mSorc build in CP, I have trouble taking down players who know how to use dodge rolls and rotate vigor/rally. The times I really rock people is when I catch them with their pants down in an open field with no ulti and BS is down... which can be said about a lot of other classes, or when they're just new and don't build right or know when my stun is coming. I'm starting to think your persistence in pushing the 'magsorc is OP' status quo comes more from ancient salt than any actual logic.NeRf MaGsOrC0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only thing I think that needs a buff is NBs and WWs. I almost never see WWs anymore so I forgot about them, but saw a couple in a BG this morning...poor guys. I route for them every time I see them, but they never seem to do well.
People need to L2P and stop asking for buffs to things that are already doing well. I like seeing a variety of capable opponents and it’s wrecking the game.
WW are busy hunting newbies in below Lv.50 BG
Yea, all they needed to do was move their cc higher up in the WW tree. They got their aoe fear, etc... earlier then other classes got cc break abilities which made them OP at low levels. The complaints about WWs at 50 was purely L2P, ZoS way overnerfed them.
Look at mid-higher MMR and how little class variety there is, and people still ask for magsorc buffs which is one of the most common classes.
If half the people who complained just switched classes they’d see how silly they’re being. I think most of it is disingenuous whining asking to be OP.
Mostly all MagSorc switched to MagPlar which i understand, they got over nerfed, ZOS has a very bad way of nerfing classes, they either don't do it or if they do, get ready to get reked for an ongoing 20 patches of nerfs,
Stamina and Mag are not balanced right now, Stams are way ahead of Mags, which is bad for class identity which ZOS is trying to toss aside, MagSorc recently got nerfed Yet there is another nerf on ZOS's radar for MagSorc, so i see why people would react like that,
Imagine a class you play the most get nerfed almost every patch, ongoing while you know it's not Over performing,
same goes for buffs, some builds or classes do not need buffs they are already good the way they are but ZOS always misses up everything cause they listen to the wrong people or just don't play their game enough,
StamNB and MagSorc are two most complained about classes in the game since release, they both got pretty reked by nerfs, they got some buffs but it never helped them to get up and match others, while StamNBs have wide range of options to go through thanks to many stamina based weapons and skills to fill that nerf gap with, MagSorc could not do that, they have only 1 weapon choice and different elemental DMG, which they got nerfed also, so it made things even worse for them,
I think both NB and Sorc need a total rework, just completely rework them, too many complains coming in and out everyday
while the real over performing builds hide in the shadows.
Here's a screen shot from a BG this morning. It was myself (magplar) and 3 magsorcs against two stam balls in mid MMR, so all pvpers around rank 20ish. Yea, I just don't see it.
https://imgur.com/1ciUzDs
Im looking at your messages throughout this post. Listen. Youre just being dumb. Youre avoiding the point constantly. Stamdk, stamplar,stamnecro are about TWICE as better as any mag class beside magplar. That is being said by a guy that still beats everyone on a sorc in duels. Thats not the point.
Cant argue their over the top survivability and damage that is way beyond what a sorc can reach. Done. Everything you say at this point is meaningless because look at all the comments here, people actually play the game and they see the big difference. I cant see ANY argument against it, im sorry bud. i honestly think you havnt played a sorc lately. You just saw a couple glass cannon sorcs hiding behind teammates and getting kills.
No, it’s moreso that sorcs have always been the whiniest class on the forums. For some reason most sorcs have only played a sorc and have no perspective on how their class ranks up compared to other classes.
Try playing other classes for a while, do yourself a favour. Sorcs are one of the strongest classes in all settings, saying otherwise is purely a L2P issue. It’s a class that’s full of people that when the class is OP it makes them think they’re amazing players, and when it’s balanced they think it’s the class’ fault they aren’t dominating.
I would like to see how the sorc does when the rest of your team is getting farmed by actually good damage dealers on other teams. None of them were in that bg.
Barely anyone in your team died and your screenshot is super biased. I am surprised the sorc could not get 25+ kills in that bg due to the one trick pony of an execute. It's not that hard for mag sorc to get 30+ kills in mid MMR deathmatch bg even without support from the rest of the team. Problem with sorc usually starts when u try to outplay someone who knows what they are doing.
You should seriously consider max ing out your MMR to get a better picture on game balanceEdited by PhoenixGrey on January 31, 2020 4:19AM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...
These specs are being totally disingenuous. A high max mag magsorc will go around rocking most classes hard, they’re wrecking machines. Their complaints are that in a rock/paper/scissors setting they can't do it to everyone.
As for a MagWarden being great in duels, well you did run away and they didn’t kill you. That’s the only weakness of that class.
What are you talking about, man? On a balanced mSorc build in CP, I have trouble taking down players who know how to use dodge rolls and rotate vigor/rally. The times I really rock people is when I catch them with their pants down in an open field with no ulti and BS is down... which can be said about a lot of other classes, or when they're just new and don't build right or know when my stun is coming. I'm starting to think your persistence in pushing the 'magsorc is OP' status quo comes more from ancient salt than any actual logic.
"Balanced sorcs" are ok, true. But glass cannon sorcs are not ok. Combination of high dps, best mobility in the game and stacked shields.... anyway, I don't think that magsorc needs any nerf. I really like to fight them, this is way more interesting then 1v1 with fury-onslaught users, where only lag or player's personal mistakes decide who will win. But what can be buffed without making glass cannon sorcs even more powerful? Maybe something universal like meteor or degeneration etc... maybe some unused sorcs abilities and morphs... but certainly not current viable morphs.2 -
talfx5✭✭✭
That last sentence... bingo.MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...
These specs are being totally disingenuous. A high max mag magsorc will go around rocking most classes hard, they’re wrecking machines. Their complaints are that in a rock/paper/scissors setting they can't do it to everyone.
As for a MagWarden being great in duels, well you did run away and they didn’t kill you. That’s the only weakness of that class.
What are you talking about, man? On a balanced mSorc build in CP, I have trouble taking down players who know how to use dodge rolls and rotate vigor/rally. The times I really rock people is when I catch them with their pants down in an open field with no ulti and BS is down... which can be said about a lot of other classes, or when they're just new and don't build right or know when my stun is coming. I'm starting to think your persistence in pushing the 'magsorc is OP' status quo comes more from ancient salt than any actual logic.
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ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭Magsorcs so used to being god tier that when they're only second best they need buffs2
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Rahar✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...
These specs are being totally disingenuous. A high max mag magsorc will go around rocking most classes hard, they’re wrecking machines. Their complaints are that in a rock/paper/scissors setting they can't do it to everyone.
As for a MagWarden being great in duels, well you did run away and they didn’t kill you. That’s the only weakness of that class.
What are you talking about, man? On a balanced mSorc build in CP, I have trouble taking down players who know how to use dodge rolls and rotate vigor/rally. The times I really rock people is when I catch them with their pants down in an open field with no ulti and BS is down... which can be said about a lot of other classes, or when they're just new and don't build right or know when my stun is coming. I'm starting to think your persistence in pushing the 'magsorc is OP' status quo comes more from ancient salt than any actual logic.
"Balanced sorcs" are ok, true. But glass cannon sorcs are not ok. Combination of high dps, best mobility in the game and stacked shields.... anyway, I don't think that magsorc needs any nerf. I really like to fight them, this is way more interesting then 1v1 with fury-onslaught users, where only lag or player's personal mistakes decide who will win. But what can be buffed without making glass cannon sorcs even more powerful? Maybe something universal like meteor or degeneration etc... maybe some unused sorcs abilities and morphs... but certainly not current viable morphs.
It's not really just the question of buffs. If someone threw me in a room and said "fix mSorc and you can get out", I'd probably do a few or all of the following:
1. Gut the stupid bird. Chop off (some) of the healing in baby steps until it's not so obnoxious, or move the healing somewhere else. It'd be especially cool if it wasn't just a one button wonder like Magplar's heal and had some sort of effect or condition attached to it.
2. Increase shield size by a small margin, somewhere around 5-8% to compensate for bug fixes (such as status effects not landing on shields until like a patch ago). Maybe change the unused morph to increase duration (12s?) as well as retaining current effects? That way it could be the go-to PvE shield.
3. Let shields scale less with max magicka and health, and more with SpD to open up build diversity with the goal being that shields will be the same size (or close) when wearing sets that aren't literally just the 3 or 4 max mag ones
4. Remove projectile denial from BoL, or at least add a damage cap to it
5. Reduce greatly or outright remove min. travel time from things like frags, OL, and Fury
As you can see, it's a mixed bag. I don't know how this would affect glass cannon mSorc (I don't play it and furthermore, I'm not sure what your idea of it is) but maybe this provides a bit of insight into mSorc's issues. In my eyes, the bird is probably the most deserving of a change and the true culprit behind your "glass cannon" sorc.NeRf MaGsOrC1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...
These specs are being totally disingenuous. A high max mag magsorc will go around rocking most classes hard, they’re wrecking machines. Their complaints are that in a rock/paper/scissors setting they can't do it to everyone.
As for a MagWarden being great in duels, well you did run away and they didn’t kill you. That’s the only weakness of that class.
What are you talking about, man? On a balanced mSorc build in CP, I have trouble taking down players who know how to use dodge rolls and rotate vigor/rally. The times I really rock people is when I catch them with their pants down in an open field with no ulti and BS is down... which can be said about a lot of other classes, or when they're just new and don't build right or know when my stun is coming. I'm starting to think your persistence in pushing the 'magsorc is OP' status quo comes more from ancient salt than any actual logic.
"Balanced sorcs" are ok, true. But glass cannon sorcs are not ok. Combination of high dps, best mobility in the game and stacked shields.... anyway, I don't think that magsorc needs any nerf. I really like to fight them, this is way more interesting then 1v1 with fury-onslaught users, where only lag or player's personal mistakes decide who will win. But what can be buffed without making glass cannon sorcs even more powerful? Maybe something universal like meteor or degeneration etc... maybe some unused sorcs abilities and morphs... but certainly not current viable morphs.
It's not really just the question of buffs. If someone threw me in a room and said "fix mSorc and you can get out", I'd probably do a few or all of the following:
1. Gut the stupid bird. Chop off (some) of the healing in baby steps until it's not so obnoxious, or move the healing somewhere else. It'd be especially cool if it wasn't just a one button wonder like Magplar's heal and had some sort of effect or condition attached to it.
2. Increase shield size by a small margin, somewhere around 5-8% to compensate for bug fixes (such as status effects not landing on shields until like a patch ago). Maybe change the unused morph to increase duration (12s?) as well as retaining current effects? That way it could be the go-to PvE shield.
3. Let shields scale less with max magicka and health, and more with SpD to open up build diversity with the goal being that shields will be the same size (or close) when wearing sets that aren't literally just the 3 or 4 max mag ones
4. Remove projectile denial from BoL, or at least add a damage cap to it
5. Reduce greatly or outright remove min. travel time from things like frags, OL, and Fury
As you can see, it's a mixed bag. I don't know how this would affect glass cannon mSorc (I don't play it and furthermore, I'm not sure what your idea of it is) but maybe this provides a bit of insight into mSorc's issues. In my eyes, the bird is probably the most deserving of a change and the true culprit behind your "glass cannon" sorc.
Yes, this maybe related to bird. When HP jumps from 2-3k HP to full in one "puff", it's quite demoralizing. As for the definition... very high damage (can't be face tanked, you need to do everything - heal, roll-dodge and block to survive), but very fragile when not shielded.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...
These specs are being totally disingenuous. A high max mag magsorc will go around rocking most classes hard, they’re wrecking machines. Their complaints are that in a rock/paper/scissors setting they can't do it to everyone.
As for a MagWarden being great in duels, well you did run away and they didn’t kill you. That’s the only weakness of that class.
What are you talking about, man? On a balanced mSorc build in CP, I have trouble taking down players who know how to use dodge rolls and rotate vigor/rally. The times I really rock people is when I catch them with their pants down in an open field with no ulti and BS is down... which can be said about a lot of other classes, or when they're just new and don't build right or know when my stun is coming. I'm starting to think your persistence in pushing the 'magsorc is OP' status quo comes more from ancient salt than any actual logic.
"Balanced sorcs" are ok, true. But glass cannon sorcs are not ok. Combination of high dps, best mobility in the game and stacked shields.... anyway, I don't think that magsorc needs any nerf. I really like to fight them, this is way more interesting then 1v1 with fury-onslaught users, where only lag or player's personal mistakes decide who will win. But what can be buffed without making glass cannon sorcs even more powerful? Maybe something universal like meteor or degeneration etc... maybe some unused sorcs abilities and morphs... but certainly not current viable morphs.
It's not really just the question of buffs. If someone threw me in a room and said "fix mSorc and you can get out", I'd probably do a few or all of the following:
1. Gut the stupid bird. Chop off (some) of the healing in baby steps until it's not so obnoxious, or move the healing somewhere else. It'd be especially cool if it wasn't just a one button wonder like Magplar's heal and had some sort of effect or condition attached to it.
2. Increase shield size by a small margin, somewhere around 5-8% to compensate for bug fixes (such as status effects not landing on shields until like a patch ago). Maybe change the unused morph to increase duration (12s?) as well as retaining current effects? That way it could be the go-to PvE shield.
3. Let shields scale less with max magicka and health, and more with SpD to open up build diversity with the goal being that shields will be the same size (or close) when wearing sets that aren't literally just the 3 or 4 max mag ones
4. Remove projectile denial from BoL, or at least add a damage cap to it
5. Reduce greatly or outright remove min. travel time from things like frags, OL, and Fury
As you can see, it's a mixed bag. I don't know how this would affect glass cannon mSorc (I don't play it and furthermore, I'm not sure what your idea of it is) but maybe this provides a bit of insight into mSorc's issues. In my eyes, the bird is probably the most deserving of a change and the true culprit behind your "glass cannon" sorc.
Yes, this maybe related to bird. When HP jumps from 2-3k HP to full in one "puff", it's quite demoralizing. As for the definition... very high damage (can't be face tanked, you need to do everything - heal, roll-dodge and block to survive), but very fragile when not shielded.
It sounds like you guys are going too glassy. ZoS has gone out of their way to try and prevent high burst builds from dominating.
You can either adapt and play a more balanced game or be one of the people who get frustrated asking for more damage. Up to you guys, but learning to play a more balanced spec will make you a better player.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
When you play a 60k max mag magsorc with 2k spell damage and your crit frags hit for 4k a Nord stamcro which does 4k heal per vigor tick you really just accept the fact that some classes are out of control, mainly stamcros and wardens.
Not to mention i recieved a 12k onslaught plus a 9k executioner out of this guy.
I play the highest damage output magsorc possible and no matter how you time and pull your combos perfectly, with few vigor ticks, arctic blass or spirit guard they just outheal your damage even without breaking free lol
Who else says different it's just blind or play a different game.
It all heavily depends on class you play and if this is CP/no-CP. When I played stamDK (no-CP) I felt like I always have initiative and some advantage against magsorcs, because my regular healing was enough to outheal their consistent pressure and fossilize spam was draining their stamina while restoring mine. Magicka scaling is worse in no-CP as well as break free/roll-dodge much more expensive.
On stamplar (CP)... like Iskiab says, on templar you just feel like magsorc is your bane and your build is outclassed. Despite fact that you can purge sorc's burst preparation, your regular (non-burst) healing is not enough and so you are forced to spam burst heals/roll-dodges to survive which prevents your own pressure on sorc.. and if you don't spam burst healing/roll-dodge you will simply die. Because high dps magsorc deals like 25% HP damage per second to you. Especially if he is using overload which can deal crazy damage due to CP.
As for the warden's / stamcro's tankiness. Yeah, this is ridiculuous, I have no idea what devs are thinking. Some magden guy b**ched out on me that I withdrew from his "cyro duel" (though it was not duel he was just sitting in resource tower farming newbies and abusing shalks+drain combo). Man, if you have accelerating growth+mist+undeath+northern storm+S&B... there is absolutely no point to fight. I have zero idea what amount of damage is needed to pierce undeath+accelerating growth+S&B block-healing. And devs think that stacking all this mitigation+healing is ok...
These specs are being totally disingenuous. A high max mag magsorc will go around rocking most classes hard, they’re wrecking machines. Their complaints are that in a rock/paper/scissors setting they can't do it to everyone.
As for a MagWarden being great in duels, well you did run away and they didn’t kill you. That’s the only weakness of that class.
What are you talking about, man? On a balanced mSorc build in CP, I have trouble taking down players who know how to use dodge rolls and rotate vigor/rally. The times I really rock people is when I catch them with their pants down in an open field with no ulti and BS is down... which can be said about a lot of other classes, or when they're just new and don't build right or know when my stun is coming. I'm starting to think your persistence in pushing the 'magsorc is OP' status quo comes more from ancient salt than any actual logic.
"Balanced sorcs" are ok, true. But glass cannon sorcs are not ok. Combination of high dps, best mobility in the game and stacked shields.... anyway, I don't think that magsorc needs any nerf. I really like to fight them, this is way more interesting then 1v1 with fury-onslaught users, where only lag or player's personal mistakes decide who will win. But what can be buffed without making glass cannon sorcs even more powerful? Maybe something universal like meteor or degeneration etc... maybe some unused sorcs abilities and morphs... but certainly not current viable morphs.
It's not really just the question of buffs. If someone threw me in a room and said "fix mSorc and you can get out", I'd probably do a few or all of the following:
1. Gut the stupid bird. Chop off (some) of the healing in baby steps until it's not so obnoxious, or move the healing somewhere else. It'd be especially cool if it wasn't just a one button wonder like Magplar's heal and had some sort of effect or condition attached to it.
2. Increase shield size by a small margin, somewhere around 5-8% to compensate for bug fixes (such as status effects not landing on shields until like a patch ago). Maybe change the unused morph to increase duration (12s?) as well as retaining current effects? That way it could be the go-to PvE shield.
3. Let shields scale less with max magicka and health, and more with SpD to open up build diversity with the goal being that shields will be the same size (or close) when wearing sets that aren't literally just the 3 or 4 max mag ones
4. Remove projectile denial from BoL, or at least add a damage cap to it
5. Reduce greatly or outright remove min. travel time from things like frags, OL, and Fury
As you can see, it's a mixed bag. I don't know how this would affect glass cannon mSorc (I don't play it and furthermore, I'm not sure what your idea of it is) but maybe this provides a bit of insight into mSorc's issues. In my eyes, the bird is probably the most deserving of a change and the true culprit behind your "glass cannon" sorc.
Yes, this maybe related to bird. When HP jumps from 2-3k HP to full in one "puff", it's quite demoralizing. As for the definition... very high damage (can't be face tanked, you need to do everything - heal, roll-dodge and block to survive), but very fragile when not shielded.
It sounds like you guys are going too glassy. ZoS has gone out of their way to try and prevent high burst builds from dominating.
You can either adapt and play a more balanced game or be one of the people who get frustrated asking for more damage. Up to you guys, but learning to play a more balanced spec will make you a better player.
Well, I switched slimecraw for bloodspawn, I'll see if this will help against glass cannon magsorcs.0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭In melee range against 2H swords, mag definitely feels like a fish out of water.0 -
Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »OP, as far as I remember you posted build where your magsorc had 22k shields in U24 and was bursting down people in 2-3 GCD without CC. I can't understand how that thread and this thread can be from same person tbh... magsorc simply became much more skill dependent then before, but from your videos it looked like you are quite skilled... so how can you think that magsorc is weak? Streak, shield-stacking, huge damage, crazy burst heal? what's "weak" about all that?
Not to mention sorc is the hardest class to build
Ever heard of a beautiful class called magblade? If you think magsorc is the hardest then you obviously never tried magblade.Edited by Freakin_Hytte on February 1, 2020 10:18PM2
