Easy way to fix ice staves

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Somber97866 wrote: »

The point is that if there was one slot available for the ice stave taunting/tanking version to put a skill in that would override tri focus for ice staves then we wouldn't have this problem of newer players running into vet dungeons aggro'ing everything

Shifting the functionality of the frost staff tanking to frost clench and/or elemental susceptibility would really help alleviate the issues presented by it.

Somber97866 · January 2020

Do you remember the old tri focus passive skill under the old destro staff skill line?
It made ice staves give a damage shield to players when they heavy attacked.
By changing tri focus back to the way it was before. And then adding a spot to put a skill point at the bottom of the passives to change the ice staff into a tanking tool.
All you would have to do is add a skill point to change the ice staff weapon that gives you a damage shield when you heavy attack into the ice staff tanking tool that a grows when you have you attacked and charges magic instead of stam when you block.
They still have this option. It can be changed. And while they're at it they can change the way the ice staff weapon worked when you heavy attacked.
They will never do it though! I just don't know why they didn't do it like this in the first place? Where you can have both.

Somber97866 · January 2020

Aye ya know, whatever! No biggie! We'll just have to put up with the noobs until they learn how the ice staves work I guess

relentless_turnip · January 2020

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

I too swap between a flame staff or frost staff(no points in the first passive).
It allows magic users to play defensively and have a LA that scales with their stats.
I think it's fine...

You seem to be upset about the aesthetic, it is impossible for the dev's to give everyone what they want.
You have plenty of build options because of these differences.
They just might not meet the superficial expectations we all have!

Lightning = AOE
Frost = Defence
Flame = Single target

I'm more than fine with using a frost staff on my magDK if it reduces incoming damage more significantly.

Lughlongarm · January 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

I too swap between a flame staff or frost staff(no points in the first passive).
It allows magic users to play defensively and have a LA that scales with their stats.
I think it's fine...

You seem to be upset about the aesthetic, it is impossible for the dev's to give everyone what they want.
You have plenty of build options because of these differences.
They just might not meet the superficial expectations we all have!

Lightning = AOE
Frost = Defence
Flame = Single target

I'm more than fine with using a frost staff on my magDK if it reduces incoming damage more significantly.

Sure, but how's my comment got anything to do with your comment and what gave the impression that I'm upset?

LeHarrt91 · January 2020

My main issue is the heavy attack taunt and lack of any dps boost. I get its defensive, but thats mainly the skills not the passives (beside the block) move block to 1st passive and add something to Ancient Knowledge.

Gnortranermara · January 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Not related to mechanics but rather to elemental theming: How did Fire get to be the single-target damage type and Lightning get the AoE designation anyway?

Has anyone actually SEEN a wildfire? It spreads from place to place, always seeking out new fuel sources and covering a wide area if not extinguished. How is that not classic AoE?

Meanwhile, has anyone ever seen a bolt of actual lightning? It is purely single-target in terms of when it goes to ground. Lightning can strike with high frequency but it is not blanketing an entire area in the way that we understand AoE in games.

Seems to me like ZOS devs have never been outside, SMH.

Yep. The elemental theming in this game is all wrong, on so many levels. Having all elemental magic status effects and passive bonuses so horribly mixed up really ruins the "power fantasy". For what? Chaos? Some inexplicable dev combat objective? IDK but it's all backwards af.

zvavi · January 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

Fire - Bonus to ST Damage
Lighting - Bonus to AoE Damage
Ice - Bonus to?

Fire - bonus to aoe
Lightning - bonus to crit
Frost - bonus ST

I think this would make more sense.

relentless_turnip · January 2020

Lughlongarm wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

I too swap between a flame staff or frost staff(no points in the first passive).
It allows magic users to play defensively and have a LA that scales with their stats.
I think it's fine...

You seem to be upset about the aesthetic, it is impossible for the dev's to give everyone what they want.
You have plenty of build options because of these differences.
They just might not meet the superficial expectations we all have!

Lightning = AOE
Frost = Defence
Flame = Single target

I'm more than fine with using a frost staff on my magDK if it reduces incoming damage more significantly.

Sure, but how's my comment got anything to do with your comment and what gave the impression that I'm upset?

Apologies, I was in agreement with you

I should have said so in my opening sentence

CaptainVenom · January 2020

Simple way to fix Ice Staves: remove taunt from Tri Focus and add it to Destructive Clench. Simple and easy. Plus this would add more diversiti between mages who want to trade Offense for Defense from magicka block and block cost reduction from Ice.

zvavi · January 2020

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Simple way to fix Ice Staves: remove taunt from Tri Focus and add it to Destructive Clench. Simple and easy. Plus this would add more diversiti between mages who want to trade Offense for Defense from magicka block and block cost reduction from Ice.

It ain't called fixing it is called nerfing. Unless clench will apply major debuffs like s/b does.

Brandathorbel · January 2020

I guess the real question is.

Do people even use the taunt on ice staff with any actual regularity? it seems like a really inefficient taunt considering how long it takes when there are two other skills that do it quicker and more efficiently. I would think those are almost always on a tanks bar anyways?

Zer0_CooL · January 2020

Since we're talking about staff fixes. Could the inferno staff finaly get a fix please. Im *** tired of being stuck in a HA charge

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

I've been theorising changes to the destruction staff. Not entirely sure on tri focus but i suggested a change that helps both Tanks and DPS.

They are:

Destructive Clench:
Flame Clench: also deals additional damage

Shock Clench: also stuns the target.

Frost Clench: while slotted, increases blocking mitigation by 20% and reduces cost of blocking by 36%

The reason why this was added to frost clench is because there wasn't enough room on Elemental Susceptibility and i also wanted to restrict the access to the passive to the frost staff while still giving DPS a reason to use the frost staff so that both Tanks and DPS can coexist. I also wasn't sure about what sort of secondary effect to add to frost clench, seeing as I'd be giving more effects to the clenches due to the lack of stuns.

Elemental Susceptibility:
Instead of increasing duration upon hit and increasing range, it now adds Major Fracture and Taunt. But reduces duration to 15s and adds a cost of 3150 magicka.

The reason for the cost and reduced duration is to try and make sure that it wouldn't outclass other taunts. It also allows shock staff tanks to have access to another taunt.

Tri Focus:
Instead of giving a pitiful shield, magicka block cost and a taunt on heavy, Frost staff attacks are now 8% faster

Not entirely sure on this change but it would help both dps and tanks while also removing the possibility of frost dps stealing taunts.

Ancient Knowledge:
Frost staff is now:
While frost staff is equipped: adds 1316 spell critical (roughly 6%)

This change increases your spell critical chance by about 6%. This change is to make frost DPS more competitive while not trying to be a replacement for the fire staff across the board. Additionally because it buffs the spell crit stat, it also increases your chance for critical healing so it can potentially be more useful for tanks and still useful for pvp backbars too.

JadonSky · January 2020

I think they should just keep Ice staff as a DPS destruction staff and remove the tanking capability. Then add illusion magic skill line using wand and shield that is mag tanking based. Get a new skill line and get the opinion again to make a full ICE dps.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

JadonSky wrote: »

I think they should just keep Ice staff as a DPS destruction staff and remove the tanking capability. Then add illusion magic skill line using wand and shield that is mag tanking based. Get a new skill line and get the opinion again to make a full ICE dps.

That unfortunately requires an entirely new weapon which may cause complications.

HappyLittleTree · January 2020

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

I don't agree.

zvavi · January 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

I don't agree.

U can not agree as much as u want, but please dont strip tanks of some of their tools.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

zvavi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

I don't agree.

U can not agree as much as u want, but please dont strip tanks of some of their tools.

I've done my best to try and show suggestions that shift the tools to other areas of the destruction staff while adding more to help them. This is possible and something needs to change sometime soon

JadonSky · January 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

JadonSky wrote: »

I think they should just keep Ice staff as a DPS destruction staff and remove the tanking capability. Then add illusion magic skill line using wand and shield that is mag tanking based. Get a new skill line and get the opinion again to make a full ICE dps.

That unfortunately requires an entirely new weapon which may cause complications.

Agreed there are a lot of motifs out there now that they would have to skin for and of course the issue with balance. But its not impossible. All good things take time

.

Brandathorbel · January 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

In my opinion they should've put an option to select wether you wanted ice stave for damage or "ice staff tanking" in the passives.
They could've kept the passive " Tri Focus " the same and added an extra sit to put a skill point in a spot that makes ice staves aggro and use mag instead of Stam.
Then we could've had actual ice mages and ice tanks but they didn't. You know why? Because they don't give a @#$& about what out want!
Zos doesn't give a @#$& about you or I want. As long as the money comes in they don't give a @#$& about anything you want unless you unanimously cry in unison together!
Just remember that from now on and everything in eso will make a lot more sense!

Even if this was implemented there is no legitimate ice mage class.

Zo$ should have letf ice staff the way it was and give it a big buff.

BecauseTanking with a stick seems reasonable 😂😂. what a stupid and lazy idea

I don't know about you, but I love my ice staves, especially in PvP. Mag block is very useful, even on a stam char

there is no reason they can't keep mag block on ice staves.

kringled_1 · January 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I've been theorising changes to the destruction staff. Not entirely sure on tri focus but i suggested a change that helps both Tanks and DPS.

They are:

Destructive Clench:
Flame Clench: also deals additional damage

Shock Clench: also stuns the target.

Frost Clench: while slotted, increases blocking mitigation by 20% and reduces cost of blocking by 36%

The reason why this was added to frost clench is because there wasn't enough room on Elemental Susceptibility and i also wanted to restrict the access to the passive to the frost staff while still giving DPS a reason to use the frost staff so that both Tanks and DPS can coexist. I also wasn't sure about what sort of secondary effect to add to frost clench, seeing as I'd be giving more effects to the clenches due to the lack of stuns.

Elemental Susceptibility:
Instead of increasing duration upon hit and increasing range, it now adds Major Fracture and Taunt. But reduces duration to 15s and adds a cost of 3150 magicka.

The reason for the cost and reduced duration is to try and make sure that it wouldn't outclass other taunts. It also allows shock staff tanks to have access to another taunt.

Tri Focus:
Instead of giving a pitiful shield, magicka block cost and a taunt on heavy, Frost staff attacks are now 8% faster

Not entirely sure on this change but it would help both dps and tanks while also removing the possibility of frost dps stealing taunts.

Ancient Knowledge:
Frost staff is now:
While frost staff is equipped: adds 1316 spell critical (roughly 6%)

This change increases your spell critical chance by about 6%. This change is to make frost DPS more competitive while not trying to be a replacement for the fire staff across the board. Additionally because it buffs the spell crit stat, it also increases your chance for critical healing so it can potentially be more useful for tanks and still useful for pvp backbars too.

With all due respect, I don't think this proposal is all that great for tanks running ice staves. 99% of the reason I back bar an ice staff is for the block cost and block mitigation, so that if I'm caught on the wrong bar in a mechanic I can still block and survive. If I have to slot clench, a skill that I would not have any other use for as a PvE tank, to gain that, it's now competing against all of the other stuff on my back bar.

thadjarvis · January 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

I guess the real question is.

Do people even use the taunt on ice staff with any actual regularity? it seems like a really inefficient taunt considering how long it takes when there are two other skills that do it quicker and more efficiently. I would think those are almost always on a tanks bar anyways?

I know some good tanks that do so but not regularly. Since they reduced the cost of inner fire I don't see much value: heavy with lightning and pre-load an inner-fire cast. Get a little less net mag back, but frost heavies are unreliably annyoing compared to lightning and you get inner fire synergy out of it. For normal tanking, I dislike frost staff because of how the heavy works only using frost when I want the snare in dungeons.

(yea non-meta) Staff tanking (frost/light) or (frost/resto) frost is needed to block. Builds vary there on taunting with it and block pool choice.

Somber97866 · January 2020

Problem I have with not putting in points into tri focus means that you're losing out on extra damage when you heavy attack with a fire staff and AOE cleave damage with lightning staff.
Just sucks that you would have to miss out on this extra damage just because they didn't know how to keep the ice staves to the way they were while having an option to change it to the way it is now.

Somber97866 · January 2020

And you're right by this to that I don't see too many tanks using an ice staff. They always seem to change something unintended when they make changes to something else. Seems one big vicious cycle.

Lughlongarm · February 2020

I don't think they should change anything with Ice staff passives, I think its good enough.
However, I do think they should reduce the heavy attack charge time of frost staff to the DW charge time.
Reason is that this is probably the lowest damage heavy attack in the game, it is dodgable and does not restore big chunk of magicka. Frost staff's heavy attack is also supposed to be used as a taunt, and with a shorter charge time it will be much more practical to use. They can take from it the small shield if they really need to, I don't think any one will miss it.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2020

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I don't think they should change anything with Ice staff passives, I think its good enough.
However, I do think they should reduce the heavy attack charge time of frost staff to the DW charge time.
Reason is that this is probably the lowest damage heavy attack in the game, it is dodgable and does not restore big chunk of magicka. Frost staff's heavy attack is also supposed to be used as a taunt, and with a shorter charge time it will be much more practical to use. They can take from it the small shield if they really need to, I don't think any one will miss it.

The heavy attack is a problem as long as tri focus remains to taunt and change the block cost to magicka.

WrathOfInnos · February 2020

I’m all for giving Frost Staff 6% Spell Crit on Ancient Knowledge, that would bring it closer to the DPS of Inferno and Lightning without becoming mandatory meta for any builds. It would also synergize nicely with the new Warden crit damage against chilled enemies. The Block Cost and Block Mitigation bonuses could move to Tri-Focus. The Heavy Attack taunt being replaced by an Elemental Susceptibility taunt would be great (both are free to cast anyway), since the taunt would also debuff similar to pierce armor. And the Magicka block cost can just die, most tanks don’t even want that or put a skill point in it, and DPS certainly don’t.

Drako_Ei · February 2020

zvavi wrote: »

...you are taking oranges and confusing them for apples. Combat perspective usually doesnt have anything to do with their greed (even though the initial dot buffs with the mage guild buy option is suspicious)

Also relequen, siroria, olorime, necromancer, warden + remove the extra hp from warhorn and giving it to warden, JC, etc.. are not suspicious at all