New Curse Eater function should be extended to Combat Physician as well

SirMewser · January 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Back to the topic, please. Thread started going other way than intended, partialy my fault, my appologizies for that.

This is the thing we discuss here:

SirMewser wrote: »

CE has individual cooldowns.
CP has a GCD.

Should Combat Physician have individual cooldowns, what possible negatives or positives it'd bring? Do you think CP should even have individual cooldowns? If so, why?

My opinion is here.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's discuss the proposal. What would the change to have Combat Physician cooldown per target bring? What possible negative causes it could have?

1) The shield value is lower than Iceheart which is being used often and nobody complains about its shield size (actualy, I've seen some complaints about Iceheart shield being too small). Therefore, there is no problem in the shield value and no need to adjust it.
2) Proc conditions are fine IMO. You are required two conditions to be met: to actualy heal (not overheal) and the heal must be a critical hit. Since Combat Physician does not proc from overheals, you can't pre-apply the shield to your party before combat starts. Ebon on weapons bug has been resolved therefore it can't be used to lower your partys health anymore (it was being done as a synergy with sets that only proc from actual heals like Gossamer or Symfony of Blades).
3) 6 seconds cooldown is justified with the shield size. In most harder end-game content like vet DLC dungeons and vet DLC trials, an 8k or let's say a 10k shield (when the healer specs for it with CPs) will be taken down by a single AoE. Talking from experience now, a 6 seconds duration 10k shield from Iceheart was an additional layer of defense but definitely wasn't something I could rely on in vSS Nahviintas HM within portals. That's what Combat Physician would be, an additional layer of defense, but not something people should rely on. Not even saying that experienced groups don't even think about defensive support sets on their healers or tanks, they go full group dmg buffs with stuff like Zen or Martial Knowledge, so change to Combat Physician would not hurt leaderboards in any way.
4) Shield size of Combat Physician is affected by Battle Spirit. A 4k shield really isn't going to make a difference even if used by organized ball groups.
5) Change should not be technicaly difficult because Curse Eater was changed during this PTS the exact same way we want to change Combat Physician.

Possible negatives I could see is that CP with individual cooldowns could possibly make some encounters easier than intended. However, Gossamer already does that and much more significantly than CP with individual cooldowns ever would. New Curse Eater is on that way too, no more Purge-like-madman Positrox+Negatrix encounter. That being said, Gossamer would still be prefered over Combat Physician but at least we would have a new option to consider. Too few defensive support sets are available. New support sets are being more and more narrowed to dpsboost/resourcebattery.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am glad that Curse Eater joined the group of "Useful support defensive non-dpsboosting sets". Extensive list of the group is now:
1) Gossamer
2) Mending
3) Curse Eater

I don't think CP should have individual cooldowns, as previously stated, it would be too similar to PS in terms of functionality, while also being easier and bigger in terms of shields. I believe ZoS would be against the notion of making it behave similar because they've, in the past, have implemented so many; hard counters, nerfs, and general adjustments to damage shields.

On live: you could have 4 people within a room, you proc CP, applying to 1 person which could net a ward value of 8,160 - 10,000 PVE or 5k PVP.
The suggestion: you could have 4 people within a room, you proc CP, applying to 4 person which could net a ward value of 32,640 - 40,000 PVE or 20k PVP.
It's just too volatile of a proc, especially when considering it could refresh every 6 seconds.
Not to say I don't like the idea of the change, but it's against all the changes ZoS has implemented...
Iceheart also deals AoE-DoT frost damage which applies AoE minor maim, I'd be all for multifunction shield effects because of this. Slap something extra on Combat Physician, like minor/major prophecy and/or savagery (to fit the theme of the set's 3rd & 4th bonuses increasing crit chance).

It's also alarming when considering the new (and pathetic) undaunted set from the upcoming Harrowstorm DLC, should it make it to live server the way it is. Should it, it will show that ZoS has no interest in providing buffs to useful proc damage shield sets (or shields in general), unfortunately. Other people are concerned that Iceheart is more likely to be nerfed than seeing any sort of improvement to other sets, I beg to be told and shown wrong for the sake of Combat Physician in this discussion and the upcoming DLC.

Xvorg · February 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's discuss the proposal. What would the change to have Combat Physician cooldown per target bring? What possible negative causes it could have?

1) The shield value is lower than Iceheart which is being used often and nobody complains about its shield size (actualy, I've seen some complaints about Iceheart shield being too small). Therefore, there is no problem in the shield value and no need to adjust it.
2) Proc conditions are fine IMO. You are required two conditions to be met: to actualy heal (not overheal) and the heal must be a critical hit. Since Combat Physician does not proc from overheals, you can't pre-apply the shield to your party before combat starts. Ebon on weapons bug has been resolved therefore it can't be used to lower your partys health anymore (it was being done as a synergy with sets that only proc from actual heals like Gossamer or Symfony of Blades).
3) 6 seconds cooldown is justified with the shield size. In most harder end-game content like vet DLC dungeons and vet DLC trials, an 8k or let's say a 10k shield (when the healer specs for it with CPs) will be taken down by a single AoE. Talking from experience now, a 6 seconds duration 10k shield from Iceheart was an additional layer of defense but definitely wasn't something I could rely on in vSS Nahviintas HM within portals. That's what Combat Physician would be, an additional layer of defense, but not something people should rely on. Not even saying that experienced groups don't even think about defensive support sets on their healers or tanks, they go full group dmg buffs with stuff like Zen or Martial Knowledge, so change to Combat Physician would not hurt leaderboards in any way.
4) Shield size of Combat Physician is affected by Battle Spirit. A 4k shield really isn't going to make a difference even if used by organized ball groups.
5) Change should not be technicaly difficult because Curse Eater was changed during this PTS the exact same way we want to change Combat Physician.

Now Iceheart was nerfed @Olupajmibanan