oxygen_thief wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »
This logic is flawed. If you wear gear that has a proc then you sacrifice that over a set that simply adds damage. Basically that's doing the same thing.
oh really? you cant use two abilities simultaneously for example. proc sets increase your burst potential thats why people use them
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »
This logic is flawed. If you wear gear that has a proc then you sacrifice that over a set that simply adds damage. Basically that's doing the same thing.
oh really? you cant use two abilities simultaneously for example. proc sets increase your burst potential thats why people use them
and reduce your sustained damage. It’s a trade off.
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »
This logic is flawed. If you wear gear that has a proc then you sacrifice that over a set that simply adds damage. Basically that's doing the same thing.
oh really? you cant use two abilities simultaneously for example. proc sets increase your burst potential thats why people use them
and reduce your sustained damage. It’s a trade off.
Proc sets can add sustained dmg too.
Stat sets are only useful if a player knows how to utilize his skills well, because the dmg they grant is generally rather small (~8-10%). The most op stat set won't carry a player who does not know how to properly use his skills. But procs usually only require a player to press a single button to get a significant amount of additional dmg for free. Procs offer much higher impact for much less effort and that's not really balanced - tho most likely intended as carry mechanic.
Also the more skills get nerfed the stronger proc sets become.
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »now. if i were to run new moon and compare to Caluurion's, Caluurion's would have higher burst. but over the entire cooldown, nma would have higher sustained damage.
comparing nma to sheer venom sheer has more sustained damage and less burst.
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »now. if i were to run new moon and compare to Caluurion's, Caluurion's would have higher burst. but over the entire cooldown, nma would have higher sustained damage.
comparing nma to sheer venom sheer has more sustained damage and less burst.
This is not true in general. NMA has the potential to pull ahead (slightly and with the downside of cost increase) in either burst or sustained dmg, but it is not guaranteed to be better. How much dmg a set like nma adds depends entirely on how much dmg you are capable of dealing without that set. If you have low burst and/or sustained dmg to begin with - because either the build or the player is bad - then the set will add very little and mentioned proc sets will pull far ahead for both burst and pressure.
The main advantage of nma over procs would be that it also buffs healing. But even this does not apply to all stat sets.
oxygen_thief wrote: »
Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.
"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.
A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".
They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.
"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked
Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.
Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.
A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".
They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.
care to give an example?
and theyre more fun than stacking wdWreckfulAbandon wrote: »Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.
"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked
Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.
Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.
so if i wear veli instead of bloodspwan i will be a better player? no? exactly.
and please tell me the proc sets that let you kill people in actual pvp by spamming light attack. and the proc sets with a 20k tooltop.
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.
A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".
They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.
care to give an example?
and theyre more fun than stacking wdWreckfulAbandon wrote: »Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.
"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked
Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.
Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.
so if i wear veli instead of bloodspwan i will be a better player? no? exactly.
and please tell me the proc sets that let you kill people in actual pvp by spamming light attack. and the proc sets with a 20k tooltop.
Way to strawman everything I said. No, wearing veli instead of bloods pawn won't make u a better player. Dunno where u got that from. What I said is that if u are a bad player u will see much better results from wearing veli instead of lets say fury. And there is a reason why. One of them literally deals damage for you. And veli isn't even one of the most OP proc sets we ve seen while fury is one of the best weapon dmg sets.
20k proc from a light attack is a figure of speech to describe the concept of proc sets. Not a specific set. And no its not a hyperbole. Not from a proc conditions point of view nor from a tooltip point of view.
Everyone always sleeps on poisonous serpent. Probably the damage best proc set there is
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.
A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".
They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.
care to give an example?
and theyre more fun than stacking wdWreckfulAbandon wrote: »Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.
"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked
Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.
Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.
so if i wear veli instead of bloodspwan i will be a better player? no? exactly.
and please tell me the proc sets that let you kill people in actual pvp by spamming light attack. and the proc sets with a 20k tooltop.
Way to strawman everything I said. No, wearing veli instead of bloods pawn won't make u a better player. Dunno where u got that from. What I said is that if u are a bad player u will see much better results from wearing veli instead of lets say fury. And there is a reason why. One of them literally deals damage for you. And veli isn't even one of the most OP proc sets we ve seen while fury is one of the best weapon dmg sets.
20k proc from a light attack is a figure of speech to describe the concept of proc sets. Not a specific set. And no its not a hyperbole. Not from a proc conditions point of view nor from a tooltip point of view.
there is no set that does anywhare near that amount of damage so stop using it as an example.
ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.
A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".
They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.
A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".
They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.
Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.
Canned_Apples wrote: »A lot of them are complete garbage, and are strictly for "fun" builds.
The only viable ones are Velidreth, Zaan, Skoria (sort-of,) and (no-cp) Auroran's Thunder+Overwhelming Surge.
I'm not counting defensive sets. Technically Seventh and Fury could be labeled as "proc sets" too.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.
"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked
Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.
Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.
A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".
They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.
Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.
"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked
Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.
Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.
Don't you proc a set by... let's say... playing the game?
I mean if you want to proc a set like... let's say, affliction, don't you have to use... uhmm, dmg skills?
What about a set like... Livewire. Don't you have to receive... dmg in such a way the proc actually works? And to do so, don't you have to use, hmmm, a defensive playing style that endures damage done, such as healing or blocking?
I mean, I don't know any proc set that does something just by slotting it, except maybe Necropotence.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.
exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'
Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.
A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".
They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.
Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.
Nice strawman right there. Its almost like a trend when it comes to proc sets and those who defend them. Because you cant actually debunk the fact that they are horribly designed and skilless, you all resort to arguments like "show me a video of competent dying to just procs". lol
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.
"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked
Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.
Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.
Don't you proc a set by... let's say... playing the game?
I mean if you want to proc a set like... let's say, affliction, don't you have to use... uhmm, dmg skills?
What about a set like... Livewire. Don't you have to receive... dmg in such a way the proc actually works? And to do so, don't you have to use, hmmm, a defensive playing style that endures damage done, such as healing or blocking?
I mean, I don't know any proc set that does something just by slotting it, except maybe Necropotence.
Did you miss the part where i talked about proc sets doing dmg specifically and not those giving you stat bonuses. I mean, that was exactly my point, go back and read again.