Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Literally everything about that sentence is true. Unless/until they get killed or unsummoned, your pets can & will auto attack people half way across the BG and/or shield you from attack, with zero input from you.
That argument is flawed to begin with. You could also say you summon your shades and they can & will auto attack people with zero imput from you until they unsummon.
Yes, you need to recast them every 20secs but what you don't have to do is to keep them alive via shields and heals, which is what I'd call investment. And if you want to make good use of the scamp, you need to spend mag again for it's AoE/ stun.
Do you now get what I mean? How you set off the meatshield vs the 2 bar slots aspect is up for debate.
So why is spending mag for resummoning some kind of investment while spending mag for keeping the pets alive isn't?
No, it's not flawed — you just skipped over the "indefinitely" part.
My main was a stamblade (now a magblade) and my first alt was a pet Sorc, so I've dealt with both. Sorc pet upkeep is just easier. (If it wasn't, I suspect you wouldn't be complaining about the thought of having them work like Shade.)
Here's the thing though: no one complains about shades — not Nightblades, and not the people that have to play against them. So why is it that Shade work for NBs without any problem, but implemening something similar with other pets is all of the sudden a horrific idea that will ruin the other classes?
I was in a BG against a team of 4 pet sorcs — so at any given time that was 8 pets, & if they ult-dumped that number jumps to 12. You couldn't hit the players because of their menagerie, but they could frag the sh*t out of you just fine from behind it. I'm sorry, but that's just f'ing insane.
Well, I don't think that tripling the number of available targets your opposing team has to contend with simply by pressing 2 buttons at the beginning of a match necessarily requires competence. And they don't even need to be part of a premade — any 4 random pet sorcs in a BG are sure to create a [snip] & I really feel like they detract from the fun.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Yay pet teams can be annoying. We all know that. Just like every other competent pre-made.
No, I've seen them. But the complaints were about the unique utility that Shadow Image provided, not the implementation of the Shade itself. The Shade is unassuming & doesn't get in the way while still doing it's job, regardless as to which morph you pick.Why people don't complain about shades?
You must have missed the threads about "hurr durr, NBs are too evasive via teleport" etc. Furthermore I haven't seen anyone using Dark Shades in PvP since forever, mainly because Shadow Image is much more useful. Which happens to be an utility skill that isn't designed to be 2-slot damage or healing/damage skill like the sorc ones. That isn't a good comparison to begin with.
I wasn't asking for any Sorc skills to be turned into a copy of a NB skill (although if ZOS did do that it would likely be an improvement in every way if Bound Armaments is any indicator) I simply think it'd make sense to consider implementing one or two of the qualities that make Shade so much less controversial.And no, I'm not against the thought of turning another sorc skill into the copy of a NB skill because the upkeep would be harder. I'm against it because it could turn out to be buff for pet magsorcs (in PvP) while being a collateral nerf for every other spec (as I said, the few stam sorcs and pet tanks, mostly in pve).
If you can't kill the pet, it means you can't rob them their burst heal.
If you can't kill the pet, it means constant Necropotence uptime.
It means you cannot stun the pet or force the Sorc to resummon.
It means more skill slots for sorcs to use.
All this for a small price to pay. I could be wrong tho. The complains wouldn't stop anyway. Make of that what you wish.
I don't dispute that that may be the case re: the devs thought process. I'm simply voicing my opinion that for the purposes of PVP (especially in BGs, and especially in the smaller maps) having pets just roaming about randomly attacking & blocking damage from enemies whose existence the sorc may or may not even be aware of is just kind of garbage.After all these years it seems like the devs intended them to be killable, just like Blastbones and the Bear. Which happens to be damage oriented.
Plus it would leave a bitter taste in my mouth if they rip off NB skills again and slap them onto sorcs. As nice as Bound Armaments is, it just feels unoriginal.
I don't find the bear or blastbones to be as problematic as the Twilight. I haven't thought much about why, maybe the hit boxes are simply too large & they roam too far away from the Sorc? Hell, they often run interference for the other team. I can't tell you how many times my crosshairs are squarely on a green player, only to miss them because some random purple pet is slightly closer to me. I'm not talking about being in between us — my crosshairs are on the green player not the purple pet — the pet is just closer to me. So even though my aim is perfect, I miss my target. And if my target happens to be the purple Sorc, they're able to fire through their pet at me. I just think it's just incredibly flawed system all around.Just out of curiosity. Would you mind Shades becoming targetable or would you think it's a nerf?
In addition: if they become targetable, would you think it's a buff if they required two slots but be buffed as compensation?
If you feel like any of that would be a nerf, why shouldn't it be a buff the other way around for sorcs?
I'd happily twoshot the shade if that meant getting rid of the maim, robbing the NB of its teleport and Necropotence, and forcing him into re-summoning animation.
The Twilight costs two skill slots and dies easily. Those are quite the drawbacks. You could use the slots for Accelerating Drain, a CC that allows for a Frag combo. The hated Fury execution. Crit Surge for constant healing and a freed potion slot for tripots or heroism pots. Hell, you could even slot Bound Armor for the 8% max mag which NBs, of course, get for free.
I get that it's frustrating to struggle with aim. Guess what, I'm also frustrated when my Frag refuses to fire at the enemy right in front of me. When I can clearly see my enemy but a pebble counts as LoS and prevents my attacks. When a stam char keeps running around a corner or tree until Dawnbreaker is up. Or Onslaught. Yes, maybe the tree doesn't move, but with there being a LoS object every three steps in Cyro, it's equally annoying.
The most reasonable solutions I can think of is to either fix the aiming mechanics in this game (not gonna happen) or shrink the Twilight's size. Would also help PvE.
But mark my words, people would still complain. They always do. Arguing here is just a waste of time, really.
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I'd happily twoshot the shade if that meant getting rid of the maim, robbing the NB of its teleport and Necropotence, and forcing him into re-summoning animation.
The Twilight costs two skill slots and dies easily. Those are quite the drawbacks. You could use the slots for Accelerating Drain, a CC that allows for a Frag combo. The hated Fury execution. Crit Surge for constant healing and a freed potion slot for tripots or heroism pots. Hell, you could even slot Bound Armor for the 8% max mag which NBs, of course, get for free.
I get that it's frustrating to struggle with aim. Guess what, I'm also frustrated when my Frag refuses to fire at the enemy right in front of me. When I can clearly see my enemy but a pebble counts as LoS and prevents my attacks. When a stam char keeps running around a corner or tree until Dawnbreaker is up. Or Onslaught. Yes, maybe the tree doesn't move, but with there being a LoS object every three steps in Cyro, it's equally annoying.
The most reasonable solutions I can think of is to either fix the aiming mechanics in this game (not gonna happen) or shrink the Twilight's size. Would also help PvE.
But mark my words, people would still complain. They always do. Arguing here is just a waste of time, really.
=/
1. If they were that easy to disable, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. What skills (specifically) would you use to "2-shot" a Matriarch?I'd happily twoshot the shade if that meant getting rid of the maim, robbing the NB of its teleport and Necropotence, and forcing him into re-summoning animation.
The Twilight costs two skill slots and dies easily. Those are quite the drawbacks. You could use the slots for Accelerating Drain, a CC that allows for a Frag combo. The hated Fury execution. Crit Surge for constant healing and a freed potion slot for tripots or heroism pots. Hell, you could even slot Bound Armor for the 8% max mag which NBs, of course, get for free.
1. I don't struggle with aim.I get that it's frustrating to struggle with aim. Guess what, I'm also frustrated when my Frag refuses to fire at the enemy right in front of me. When I can clearly see my enemy but a pebble counts as LoS and prevents my attacks. When a stam char keeps running around a corner or tree until Dawnbreaker is up. Or Onslaught. Yes, maybe the tree doesn't move, but with there being a LoS object every three steps in Cyro, it's equally annoying.
1. If that would solve the problem, great. However I don't think it would.The most reasonable solutions I can think of is to either fix the aiming mechanics in this game (not gonna happen) or shrink the Twilight's size. Would also help PvE.
But mark my words, people would still complain. They always do. Arguing here is just a waste of time, really.
=/
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »That's kind of how games with collision detection work..they are physical objects represented in 3D space.
Just cause "thats how collision works" doesnt mean its a good thing. Look at the netch for warden.
"Good" is subjective. It's part of the play styles. Learn to stop clicking abilities when something is in your way, that's a L2P issue.
I have a better solution: make tab targeting work not when your crosshair is strictly within the highlighted outline, but when you're just in range and in LOS.
Tab target does work to a degree not as well as it should but 1v1 vs pet builds you can bypass the pet and hit the player.
Untargetable pets would be a huge buff to sorc, and it would rarely die if you have to aoe it(maybe jabs). No thanks. Keep as is
Isn't that the point of pets? They are portable mini-tanks, if they die you die, it's a race to try to kill your attacker before they take down your protection. They die, you can kill the petsorc immediately. Kinda like cracking the shell to get at the crabmeat.
To get the claimed "must be killable" issue together with fixing the LOS problem, I would guess a much smaller hitbox could fulfill both requirements? I assume making the hitbox smaller could be easier to implement for them, too?
Really?
I thought being attackable and dying while being a permanent 2 barspace toggle was part of pets intended design.
Basically everyone playing the game disagrees with that design choice - but saying pets aren´t supposed to absorb attacks that are poorly aimed is just not true.
We can safely assume it´s exactly what they´re supposed to do - considering this has been complained about for over 4 years now and it hasn´t been changed so far.
Make matriarch heal over 3s to not make it OP.
Make matriarch heal over 3s to not make it OP.
Serious or joking? That would be a buff for sorc. You would have to cast the heal less often, the heal would have more opportunities to proc sets, more oppurtunities to crit, and would make magsorc better than templar in the healing department (IMO its already the case, but that "nerf" would set it in stone).
A burst heal is never as good as a strong HoT, and HoTs become better the more damage reduction you have passively and actively. Yet you would consider a strong HoT a debuff?
Essentially you want a magicka vigor that would heal 3x as much as vigor restricted to one class, and that class would be one with good offensive capabilities and damage reduction and has power surge. Nice try.
Make matriarch heal over 3s to not make it OP.
Serious or joking? That would be a buff for sorc. You would have to cast the heal less often, the heal would have more opportunities to proc sets, more oppurtunities to crit, and would make magsorc better than templar in the healing department (IMO its already the case, but that "nerf" would set it in stone).
A burst heal is never as good as a strong HoT, and HoTs become better the more damage reduction you have passively and actively. Yet you would consider a strong HoT a debuff?
Essentially you want a magicka vigor that would heal 3x as much as vigor restricted to one class, and that class would be one with good offensive capabilities and damage reduction and has power surge. Nice try.
So u are saying that a reliable burst heal that can heal you pretty much to full health on demand is worse than a strong hot?
Really?
I thought being attackable and dying while being a permanent 2 barspace toggle was part of pets intended design.
Basically everyone playing the game disagrees with that design choice - but saying pets aren´t supposed to absorb attacks that are poorly aimed is just not true.
We can safely assume it´s exactly what they´re supposed to do - considering this has been complained about for over 4 years now and it hasn´t been changed so far.
Really?
You thought the devs were like "oi lets give them a passive ability that does really good damage and absorbs multiple attacks so that any ranged enemy cant attack them easily and anyone up close has to put in extra work while the sorc can just easy mode and attack through them"
Cmon no "2 barspace toggle" makes having 100% damage absorption acceptable
With an argument like this you could easily justify "stuck in combat" tooAlso it has been complained about since few months after release. It´s literally been a topic in dueling in 2014.
The devs know people do not like pet line of sight.
Why do you think they´re keeping this mechanic that is disliked by virtually everyone playing the game if it´s not part of their current design intent for sorc pets?
With an argument like this you could easily justify "stuck in combat" tooAlso it has been complained about since few months after release. It´s literally been a topic in dueling in 2014.
The devs know people do not like pet line of sight.
Why do you think they´re keeping this mechanic that is disliked by virtually everyone playing the game if it´s not part of their current design intent for sorc pets?
MentalxHammer wrote: »We just need a manual toggle option under gameplay that says, "Target Combat Pets." If you want to try to kill matriarchs and whatever else just keep it on, that way the rest of the player base can stop getting cheesed.
MentalxHammer wrote: »We just need a manual toggle option under gameplay that says, "Target Combat Pets." If you want to try to kill matriarchs and whatever else just keep it on, that way the rest of the player base can stop getting cheesed.
This is probably the most intelligent post in the thread.
Pros: constant Necropotence 5th bonus, pets cant be stunned – dont need to care healing them, matriarch heal is always available – dont need resto staff
Cons: cant hide between pets
IMO overall it will be huge buff to petsorcs.