Shifting Standard is a wasted opportunity

NBrookus · November 2019

If Shifting didn't shift/resynergize, it could just be replaced by Cyrodiil's Ward and spin to win on any stam character.

Ragnarock41 · November 2019

NBrookus wrote: »

If Shifting didn't shift/resynergize, it could just be replaced by Cyrodiil's Ward and spin to win on any stam character.

Honestly my only wish for shifting standart is for it to do poison damage if stamina/weapon damage is higher. I mean the soul line dot already works this way so it shouldn't be impossible to code right?

But Cyrodiil's ward is not a good replacement. Honestly all you need is a warden using the AoE defile ability. It also comes with a synergy

NBrookus · November 2019

Oh sure, but you could bring any stam class in that. Corrupting is pretty hard to sustain in group for a stamden, especially with Frost Cloak and Wings and Shimmering.

WTB magicka set that defiles. We need more Major Defile out there.

Davadin · November 2019

Somewhere wrote: »

As far as I can see you would want Shifting Standard for the following reasons:
To make sure enemies take the full damage of your attack in the event of a mobile boss fight

For use in pvp, to make sure enemies cannot move out of its range, maybe as area denial

This is where you're.... not using it as it's designed to do.

There's actually 1 reason for Shifting standard. That is to make sure enemies take full damage in the event they are being mobile.

That's both PvE and PvP.

It has defile, very good DoT and can have synergies with others whether they're in the same group or not. And it's 30 freakin second.

I don't slot it when I solo Cyrodiil, but in a group, or even when busting a keep's back flag, I can simply drop it, and walk away hiding while holding the block button.... and let the zerg takes care of the rest.

Shifting is a decent DPS ultimate and a great support ultimate.

If anything, I'd like to make sure that players can synergized the shackle on EVERY DROP.... that will be insane.

Somewhere · November 2019

Davadin wrote: »

Somewhere wrote: »

As far as I can see you would want Shifting Standard for the following reasons:
To make sure enemies take the full damage of your attack in the event of a mobile boss fight

For use in pvp, to make sure enemies cannot move out of its range, maybe as area denial

This is where you're.... not using it as it's designed to do.

There's actually 1 reason for Shifting standard. That is to make sure enemies take full damage in the event they are being mobile.

That's both PvE and PvP.

It has defile, very good DoT and can have synergies with others whether they're in the same group or not. And it's 30 freakin second.

I don't slot it when I solo Cyrodiil, but in a group, or even when busting a keep's back flag, I can simply drop it, and walk away hiding while holding the block button.... and let the zerg takes care of the rest.

Shifting is a decent DPS ultimate and a great support ultimate.

If anything, I'd like to make sure that players can synergized the shackle on EVERY DROP.... that will be insane.

Well right, but you still have to recast it each time to make sure the player stays where it aoe is. Each time you're using a GCD to get that done, and further you need to be near the enemy to get it there there in the first place.

It honestly sounds like you're using it as area denial. Either way, my argument is that's a fairly niche use and could just as easily be available on both morphs. Then we could have another morph.

I definitely get what you're saying and I did think of that use myself, hence fusing the two morphs so that specific type of use wouldn't disappear.

Davadin · November 2019

Somewhere wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Somewhere wrote: »

As far as I can see you would want Shifting Standard for the following reasons:
To make sure enemies take the full damage of your attack in the event of a mobile boss fight

For use in pvp, to make sure enemies cannot move out of its range, maybe as area denial

This is where you're.... not using it as it's designed to do.

There's actually 1 reason for Shifting standard. That is to make sure enemies take full damage in the event they are being mobile.

That's both PvE and PvP.

It has defile, very good DoT and can have synergies with others whether they're in the same group or not. And it's 30 freakin second.

I don't slot it when I solo Cyrodiil, but in a group, or even when busting a keep's back flag, I can simply drop it, and walk away hiding while holding the block button.... and let the zerg takes care of the rest.

Shifting is a decent DPS ultimate and a great support ultimate.

If anything, I'd like to make sure that players can synergized the shackle on EVERY DROP.... that will be insane.

Well right, but you still have to recast it each time to make sure the player stays where it aoe is. Each time you're using a GCD to get that done, and further you need to be near the enemy to get it there there in the first place.

It honestly sounds like you're using it as area denial. Either way, my argument is that's a fairly niche use and could just as easily be available on both morphs. Then we could have another morph.

I definitely get what you're saying and I did think of that use myself, hence fusing the two morphs so that specific type of use wouldn't disappear.

spending a GCD for keeping up a defile and DoT seems fair for an ulti. im talking about PvP.

there's little to no reason to this shifting morph for PvE.

Somewhere · November 2019

Davadin wrote: »

Somewhere wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Somewhere wrote: »

As far as I can see you would want Shifting Standard for the following reasons:
To make sure enemies take the full damage of your attack in the event of a mobile boss fight

For use in pvp, to make sure enemies cannot move out of its range, maybe as area denial

This is where you're.... not using it as it's designed to do.

There's actually 1 reason for Shifting standard. That is to make sure enemies take full damage in the event they are being mobile.

That's both PvE and PvP.

It has defile, very good DoT and can have synergies with others whether they're in the same group or not. And it's 30 freakin second.

I don't slot it when I solo Cyrodiil, but in a group, or even when busting a keep's back flag, I can simply drop it, and walk away hiding while holding the block button.... and let the zerg takes care of the rest.

Shifting is a decent DPS ultimate and a great support ultimate.

If anything, I'd like to make sure that players can synergized the shackle on EVERY DROP.... that will be insane.

Well right, but you still have to recast it each time to make sure the player stays where it aoe is. Each time you're using a GCD to get that done, and further you need to be near the enemy to get it there there in the first place.

It honestly sounds like you're using it as area denial. Either way, my argument is that's a fairly niche use and could just as easily be available on both morphs. Then we could have another morph.

I definitely get what you're saying and I did think of that use myself, hence fusing the two morphs so that specific type of use wouldn't disappear.

spending a GCD for keeping up a defile and DoT seems fair for an ulti. im talking about PvP.

there's little to no reason to this shifting morph for PvE.

I'm aware you're talking about PvP here, but your example was fairly specific which is my entire point: the ultimate is too niche. You described a situation that really only occurs in Cyrodiil, where you can drop the ultimate on a flag and then "simply drop it, and walk away hiding while holding the block button.... and let the zerg takes care of the rest."

You can't do that in a duel. You can't do that in a deathmatch BG. You can barely do it in a landgrab BG, and again I would argue you're better off with SoM in that case because you're A: trying to be on the flag yourself so it doesn't matter if you can't move the dot and B: it does more damage so you can dispatch enemies more quickly.

I literally just want both morphs of the ultimate to be useful to a greater amount of people in more situations. Shifting really only shines in Cyrodiil with a bunch of people around you it seems.

Also, I would argue that spending a GCD (and 225 ultimate) for a DOT and a defile only seems fair because it seems the sources of Major Defile have dwindled over time, and that's a shame. That's a completely other topic though.

Davadin · November 2019

Somewhere wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Somewhere wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Somewhere wrote: »

As far as I can see you would want Shifting Standard for the following reasons:
To make sure enemies take the full damage of your attack in the event of a mobile boss fight

For use in pvp, to make sure enemies cannot move out of its range, maybe as area denial

This is where you're.... not using it as it's designed to do.

There's actually 1 reason for Shifting standard. That is to make sure enemies take full damage in the event they are being mobile.

That's both PvE and PvP.

It has defile, very good DoT and can have synergies with others whether they're in the same group or not. And it's 30 freakin second.

I don't slot it when I solo Cyrodiil, but in a group, or even when busting a keep's back flag, I can simply drop it, and walk away hiding while holding the block button.... and let the zerg takes care of the rest.

Shifting is a decent DPS ultimate and a great support ultimate.

If anything, I'd like to make sure that players can synergized the shackle on EVERY DROP.... that will be insane.

Well right, but you still have to recast it each time to make sure the player stays where it aoe is. Each time you're using a GCD to get that done, and further you need to be near the enemy to get it there there in the first place.

It honestly sounds like you're using it as area denial. Either way, my argument is that's a fairly niche use and could just as easily be available on both morphs. Then we could have another morph.

I definitely get what you're saying and I did think of that use myself, hence fusing the two morphs so that specific type of use wouldn't disappear.

spending a GCD for keeping up a defile and DoT seems fair for an ulti. im talking about PvP.

there's little to no reason to this shifting morph for PvE.

I'm aware you're talking about PvP here, but your example was fairly specific which is my entire point: the ultimate is too niche. You described a situation that really only occurs in Cyrodiil, where you can drop the ultimate on a flag and then "simply drop it, and walk away hiding while holding the block button.... and let the zerg takes care of the rest."

You can't do that in a duel. You can't do that in a deathmatch BG. You can barely do it in a landgrab BG, and again I would argue you're better off with SoM in that case because you're A: trying to be on the flag yourself so it doesn't matter if you can't move the dot and B: it does more damage so you can dispatch enemies more quickly.

I literally just want both morphs of the ultimate to be useful to a greater amount of people in more situations. Shifting really only shines in Cyrodiil with a bunch of people around you it seems.

Also, I would argue that spending a GCD (and 225 ultimate) for a DOT and a defile only seems fair because it seems the sources of Major Defile have dwindled over time, and that's a shame. That's a completely other topic though.

oh no, no thats just one example. more often than not i'm RIGHT THERE with the standard. but in BG and Cyro, nobody (except damn tank builds) would stand around in a banner. they would move.

thats where Shifting is very useful for your allies to hit shackle. i personally dont think its niche.

with SoM, people in Cyro - and especially BG - would run the hell away from a DK standard. i think its pretty useful.

But yes, it has no benefit over SOM for dueling, but we can't have the cake AND eat it too, yknow?

but hey, people WOULD stay away from standard in duel too, no?

so perhaps u just grab Leap or DBoS as ultimate for duel.............

either way, just my 2c based on my experience, but i agree Shifting could use a buff, absolutely.

and magma armor.

who uses that stuff???

Xvorg · November 2019

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Ideally, if I was the Game Developer behind this design, Dragonknight's Shifting Standard ultimate/morph would function similar to a real Standard Carrier / Standard Bearer and move with the player, just like Destruction Staff's Eye of the Storm ultimate/morph, where the AOE is a radius around the player and moves with the player. Or Stam-Sorcerer's Hurricane ability; again, where the player is the center of the AOE. Shifting Standard should be reworked into this design for more mobility but less damage than Standard of Might. Dragonknight's standard ultimate morph choices should be between duration/mobility and more damage/area-denial.

Combine them.

You can carry the standard for some effect, and plant it for extra dmg, synergies, major/minor buff/debuff, etc.

nryerson1025 · November 2019

OP, as I started reading your post, my first impression was that you just did not grasp the utility of shifting standard in PvP. But I kept reading and...

I was wrong! I like your idea

I'd love to see more dk healers out there