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Actual constructive advice about dungeon finder

ForzaRammer
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I see the community is mostly just bashing zos devs. I don't see anything wrong with paying customers do that.
But i don't think this will lead zos devs to anything useful. So i am here to actually give some suggestions.
Disclaimer: i am not a programmer, i just want to point out the obvious problems, and some potential fixes.

To reduces the computation resource used by the dungeon finder, one way to go is clean up the code.
However, before that, we the customers must think about 1 thing, do we even need all the functions?

Useless feature No1, daily random dungeons.
Clearly people qued random can be put together with the people qued pledge. we all know this.
This can be an issue because it is doing cross checking between the random que and the specific que.
Honestly, this is completely not needed. Why bother fix the logic, just remove the random dungeon function.
It is not like we players actually want 'oh surprise me with some long AF dlc dungeon' anyways.
Just put the w/e daily reward and exp to pledge quest, there is 3 pledges per day so everyone gets more.
If the lowbies can't access pledges, ez fix, lower the quest level so ppl can access pledge at level 15.

Useless feature No2, ready checks.
I am very certain ready checks break the dungeon finder. We all remember the problem last undaunted event.
Srsly you can't even use random dungeon with a whole group, when whole group is ready it put u back in que.
Honestly, why bother with the ready check anyways. Don't fix the logic, just get rid of the ready checks.
When players are put together, give them a check, whoever responds get port in after 30 seconds.
Sure the group half the time won't fill, just let them que for replacement. They can just w8 inside the dungeon.


How to structure the ques easily (if zos remove random dungeon and ready check).
Btw this is not exactly a basic que, players can be removed from the middle of the que (if they leave).
The dungeon finder need exactly 38(#dungeon)*2(normal/vet)*2(fresh/midway)*3(roles) ques.
This may seems like a lot, but if zos restrict # of dungeons a player can que at once, say 3 (#pledges).
When i player que, at most 18 (3 dungeon 3 role midway or fresh) que will be checked at most once.
And only a subset of it will need to be modified. Please note removing ready check is very important.
By the time next player use the que, w/e need to be done for the last player is already done.
I highly suspect the backtracking is what breaks the stupid dungeon finder all the time.



A more radical suggestion, remove que as group function.
And surprise surprise, 'que as 2 dps is faster than que as 1 dps' is not a feature it is a bug.
Zos is not getting it right, the only reason partial group is prioritized is coding gets easier.
I am not sure this is hurting the performance, but allow players cut the line is just wrong.
And honestly, it is annoying that 2 potatoes can block kick for each other, just remove it.
This will create inconvenience, but honestly if you can get 1 other person, you can get 3.
If you can get the whole group, just skip the finder and port to the dungeon directly.
  • Kingslayer513
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    Disclaimer: i am not a programmer

    Well that just about sums this up. You have no idea what you are talking about.
  • Dread_Viking
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    how about q ppl at the same lv i am tired of q as tank for dlc pledges and ending op with a 2 cp 200 dps who dont know the mechanics and hit like a wet noodles. and this is not to be elitist but it is a wast of time to try and carry them true since thy dont have any chance to hit the dps that is needed and thy dont know the mechanics and 90% thy dont speak a word of English so you cant progress and you end op leaving
    Don't worry girl I'm a Sorcerer, i got my Hardened Ward for protection
  • Dusk_Coven
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    A more radical suggestion, remove que as group function.

    If someone wanted to play with friends or guildmates, how would that happen if they needed 1 or 2 more people to make a 4-team.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on October 31, 2019 11:23PM
  • Dusk_Coven
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    how about q ppl at the same lv i am tired of q as tank for dlc pledges and ending op with a 2 cp 200 dps who dont know the mechanics and hit like a wet noodles.

    How would the group finder discover / calculate this information. Ability is not necessarily tied to CP points or even level when everything is scaled under One Tamriel.
  • ShadowPaladin
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    Let me try to give you also some constructive feedback…

    Regarding your point 1 (Daily Random Dungeons being useless):

    In your eyes they are useless, because players do not want to be surprised by some *RANDOM* dungeons especially DLC ones, but instead want to choose their dungeons and get the rewards. In the past Players just did that by circumventing the system by porting out of the random dungeon into the FG 1 dungeon, rushing through it and claiming the random rewards (luckily ZOS fixed this exploit :blush: ).
    The reasons for that was that they did not want to put any effort into it but instead just wanted to get it done as fast as possible and get the rewards as easy as possible. And this was and is the real problem, people not wanting to commit time and effort to play the game, which is required for a MMO.
    Certainly I can understand the frustration if you hit a group with players who have no idea what they are doing and the group wiping through a DLC dungeon (happend and happens to me dozens of times), but nevertheless, it is your choice to queue up for a random dungeon, knowing that something like that may or may not happen. You don't need to queue for it! Unless you want the rewards and if you want them you also should work for them!


    Regarding your point 2 (Ready Checks):

    Here I am inclined to agree with you. The *Ready Checks* for being ready to enter a dungeon screwed a lot of things up in the old Groupfinder and it is - in my opinion - not really needed, because if you list yourself for a queue you are willing and READY to do so / to join. So, no ready check for forming a group should be needed. The problem is, some people will need a reminder to / for nearly anything. Without that they would just walk absent-minded through their lives :tongue: .


    Best regards
    Shadow

  • ChunkyCat
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    Here’s my constructive advice: make it work good.
  • Dusk_Coven
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    Regarding your point 2 (Ready Checks):

    Here I am inclined to agree with you. The *Ready Checks* for being ready to enter a dungeon screwed a lot of things up in the old Groupfinder and it is - in my opinion - not really needed, because if you list yourself for a queue you are willing and READY to do so / to join. So, no ready check for forming a group should be needed. The problem is, some people will need a reminder to / for nearly anything. Without that they would just walk absent-minded through their lives :tongue: .

    Dps that have to wait 10, 20, 30+ minutes to be matched probably want to do something else in the meantime other than watch Netflix and move their toon periodically to not get auto-logged out.
    They might then be in the middle of doing something, like a trade transaction or finishing up at a dragon, or went to take a quick bio break but didn't want to lose having waited 40 mins in queue already.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on November 1, 2019 2:54AM
  • Soella
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    Sorry, but none of your suggestions sounds good for me.

    Main function of random queue is to build parties for non-pledge dungeons. Even now wait time for non-pledge dungeon is far longer, without random feature it will be many hours.

    I saw many cases when I had 2-5 ready checks before finally everyone is ready, and it takes up to 5-10 minutes. Thanks a lot, I don't want to spent this time inside, have enough things to do while I am waiting.

    Your suggestions how to build queues is very far from optimal from professional developer point of view, not to mention that you don't think about edge cases. Nice try, though.

    And finally - ability to queue with friends is absolutely must have, I want to play with my friends.
  • Loves_guars
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    The random queue lets fills group when you choose a specific non pledge dungeon that you need to grind.
  • ForzaRammer
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Regarding your point 2 (Ready Checks):

    Here I am inclined to agree with you. The *Ready Checks* for being ready to enter a dungeon screwed a lot of things up in the old Groupfinder and it is - in my opinion - not really needed, because if you list yourself for a queue you are willing and READY to do so / to join. So, no ready check for forming a group should be needed. The problem is, some people will need a reminder to / for nearly anything. Without that they would just walk absent-minded through their lives :tongue: .

    Dps that have to wait 10, 20, 30+ minutes to be matched probably want to do something else in the meantime other than watch Netflix and move their toon periodically to not get auto-logged out.
    They might then be in the middle of doing something, like a trade transaction or finishing up at a dragon, or went to take a quick bio break but didn't want to lose having waited 40 mins in queue already.

    The current system do not prevent this. My suggestion is only different for the players who accept the check.
  • ForzaRammer
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    The random queue lets fills group when you choose a specific non pledge dungeon that you need to grind.

    Then fill your entire group.
  • rpa
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    Never played the gaem but GW 2 take of LFG tool looks potentially interesting.
    (Implementation of course can screw up anything.)
  • redgreensunset
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    Disclaimer: i am not a programmer

    Well that just about sums this up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

    This forum is filled with backseat coders whp haven't the faintest clue how coding works yet insist to tell other people their job.
    The random queue lets fills group when you choose a specific non pledge dungeon that you need to grind.

    Then fill your entire group.

    And exactly how are they supposed to do this without the ranomd? And without flooding zone chat with lfg because I honestly do not want to see any more of those messages flying around, Craglorn zone chat is bad enough good luck reading anything in that.

    On your "points", one of them anyway. Played an mmo that did away with the ready check for a similar group finder ui, I have never in my long gaming life seen a player base have that big a meltdown or seen any decision so universally hated. So that, apart from common sense, is going to be a hard pass from me.
  • ChuckyPayne
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    rpa wrote: »
    Never played the gaem but GW 2 take of LFG tool looks potentially interesting.
    (Implementation of course can screw up anything.)

    Yes, but in GW2 dungeon system is the step-child there can work. That system can't serve in ESO. Just imagine that list if there are 1000+ concurrent party. In ESO dungeons, LFG very popular subsystem, the only possible solution if ZOS can fix problems.
    Useless feature No1, daily random dungeons.
    You are wrong. The only problem with it the DLC dungeons. If some1 go to random normal don't want to do DLC dungeons. On the other side If some1 would like to do a specific normal dlc dungeon for skill points (alts) They see usually players go offline or left the party in the first second.
    Here the good solution, you can choose random dungeons what would you like
    - Normal random (base dungeons)
    - Normal random (base + DLC dungeons)
    - Veteran random (base dungeons)
    - Veteran random (base + DLC dungeons)

    New elements in the ComboBox or a CheckBox would be good too.
    Useless feature No2, ready checks.
    You are wrong. If some1 go afk, and the dungeon start one player is missing, there would be worse case 1 player active 3 inactive :) and 3 player will be offline soon because they go afk for long time and forget switch of lfg. Ready Checks is must have. If there are bugs, need to be fix
    How to structure the queues easily
    If there are problems, they can track it, new algoriths, new solutions can solve the promlems. if ZOS want to take it seriously, they will take it seriously. It's much more complex than having the solution in 5 minutes I dream of.

    I think Update 25 and Update 26 will provide the real solution.
  • FierceSam
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    Useless feature No1, daily random dungeons.
    .

    This is so players are encouraged to do a random dungeon and thus fill spaces in groups.

    It’s the whole point of the group finder.

    If players aren’t incentivised to do a random dungeon, fewer players will be available to fill open slots in groups. And that would be bad.
  • spartaxoxo
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    Random queue is important because it ensures people grouping for specific dungeons that aren't the current daily get groups too. And also gives people a way to break up the monotony of only doing the daily when dungeon grinding.

    People using group finder to fill a missing group role is also important. There aren't enough tanks and healers for most people to be able to get one on demand without such a feature helping them look across a wider net than they could cast.

    Ready checks are needed because dps queue times are long and so dps will do other content in the meantime.

    I'm not sure why you put up a code if you're not a programmer to explain your idea.

    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 1, 2019 10:25AM
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