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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
got to love magsorcs
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GrimTheReaper45✭✭✭✭✭Wow, now that I’ve played a magsorc a bit more I absolutely can’t believe magsorcs complain about sustain. Easily the best sustain in game.
Imagine thinking Sorcs have bad sustain, it’s ludicrous. I think it’s safe to say anyone who’s only played a sorc should be ignored about balance entirely.
Are you talking PVE or PVP right now? Because in PVE sustain sucks a lot. Especially if you spam with force pulse.
this is the problem, noone nows what sorc people are complaining about. Petsorc, great sustain. Non pet has trash sustain.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭buff to frag dmg
Where was frag dmg buffed?
Do you mean the patch that reduced frag base dmg and increased the procc dmg that specifically mentionened the dmg on the procc stays the same bc of that?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »Wow, now that I’ve played a magsorc a bit more I absolutely can’t believe magsorcs complain about sustain. Easily the best sustain in game.
Imagine thinking Sorcs have bad sustain, it’s ludicrous. I think it’s safe to say anyone who’s only played a sorc should be ignored about balance entirely.
Are you talking PVE or PVP right now? Because in PVE sustain sucks a lot. Especially if you spam with force pulse.
this is the problem, noone nows what sorc people are complaining about. Petsorc, great sustain. Non pet has trash sustain.
Where would petsorc "great sustain" come from?Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Zelos✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »No, I'm correct.
You see you are saying that you are an overpowered class that takes no skill.
Perhaps it is powerful and you can do this, good for you.
But you are complaining to what end and what are you aiming for? You have some sense of doubt otherwise why post?
It's fine that you are that class, but if you don't understand how to counter it it seems easy.
You try again and try to understand the depth of my statement and understand just what I meant.
P.s. just because you play a class doesn't mean you understand it's faults.
Here is what i understand:
1. your arguments are weak, resulting in your need to use insults
2. you're a hypocrite that signatures others to raise their arguments instead of using insults but fail to do so yourself.
Here is a dose of reality for you. I say magsorcs are OP because for the life of this game they have been. I say this because I play it and all five other classes in this game on both stam and magicka variants. As a result, i have a basis to compare the powergaps of each class to one another. I complain because i care about balance in this game. I would like to see all classes compete on a fair and equitable playing field as much as possible.
I know quite well how to counter magsorcs. I know this because I play one and play other classes against them. My understanding of the class, both how to play it and how to play against it, compels me to speak against actions that would further exacerbate the powergaps of classes because individuals without perspective speak foolishly in forums requesting buffs to their mains without any understanding or perspective on the impact and balance to all other classes that they don't play.
PS - just because you have a keyboard doesn't mean you need to respond to my post and prove your stupidity
I think mursie is mad, and trolling the forum... he just trolls.Aeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General
CP1200
Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.1 -
GrimTheReaper45✭✭✭✭✭GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »Wow, now that I’ve played a magsorc a bit more I absolutely can’t believe magsorcs complain about sustain. Easily the best sustain in game.
Imagine thinking Sorcs have bad sustain, it’s ludicrous. I think it’s safe to say anyone who’s only played a sorc should be ignored about balance entirely.
Are you talking PVE or PVP right now? Because in PVE sustain sucks a lot. Especially if you spam with force pulse.
this is the problem, noone nows what sorc people are complaining about. Petsorc, great sustain. Non pet has trash sustain.
Where would petsorc "great sustain" come from?
Petsorc mainly relies on dots vs Nonpet that relies of a mix of dots and spammables. Meaning on petsorc there is a window of time before they need to reapply there dots that they can get in 1-2 heavy attacks without losing damage. Nonpet doesnt have that window of time because whenever they need to heavy attack they are loosing out on force pulse spam and procing cfrag. Force pulse spam +frag is about 20-25k of there damage.
0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can somebody lock this thread already, please? It is going nowhere and personal attacks (sometimes disguised as game design discussion) are getting more and more common here.Edited by Olupajmibanan on October 14, 2019 7:24AM0 -
Grandesdar✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »DarkGottbeard wrote: »Sorcerers have suffered a boundless storm of "nerf sorc" threads since launch. Here in week 4 of the pts, it is not really surprising to see a critical surge of "nerf sorc" propoganda pop up. These scamps won't stop until they have negated everything even moderately useful about the class.
While I appreciate the puns, you could replace Sorc with nearly everything that is somewhat useful and fun.
Look at Nightblades: "Nerf SA, nerf incap, nerf cloak"
DW: "rending too OP, Steel Tornado is omnipresent, it shall be nerfed"
SnB: "How can you dare to have a good spam in that skill line?!"
Two Hander: "hurr durr, Stampede is OP, Execute is too strong, nerf dizzy, gut Onslaught"
Up until the Onslaught buff: "nerf DB, everyone uses it"
This is the general forum mentality. If it can be read on your death recap, it needs to be destroyed. If everyone uses it, no matter if there are viable alternatives, it needs to be nerfed. If it's on any other class than my main, it is bound to be OP.
Wiser words have never been spoken.Main: The Charismatic StamDK DD
Side: A Handsome Warden Healer
Side: (upcoming) Stam Necro DD
CP: 680
EU PSN: Style35130 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow, now that I’ve played a magsorc a bit more I absolutely can’t believe magsorcs complain about sustain. Easily the best sustain in game.
Imagine thinking Sorcs have bad sustain, it’s ludicrous. I think it’s safe to say anyone who’s only played a sorc should be ignored about balance entirely.
Are you talking PVE or PVP right now? Because in PVE sustain sucks a lot. Especially if you spam with force pulse.
I guess you could say both. Issue is moreso that sorc sustain is so good that sorcs don’t need to use their sustain ability dark deal like other classes. In pve if not using it means more dps then yea you won’t use it, but that’s still a choice, but compared to say DK where it’s not an option the result is the class has amazing sustain. To be comparable with other classes ability costs would have to increase considerably so people need to heavy attack and use dark deal, but sorc looks like it’s designed to be the best at sustain.
I’m only level 34 so no comment on whether sorc’s OP. It’s the norm that when a pvper rolls an alt they go around mercing everyone and then get slapped when they hit 50. Some things like sustain though aren’t about the strength of the class, just the class itself.
Oh, then don't let fool yourself too early. Try sustaining sorc with spd glyphs and berserk backbar - you'll see hat I mean. Also in pve dark deal can be justified only during transition phases, otherwise it's bigger dps loss then spamming heavy attack, I reckon.
Sustain in Sorc is OK for basically 2 reasons:
1- Skill cost and cheapest nuke: The sorc's busrt is cheaper than any burst in the game. Each skill in the rotation cost less than 3k magicka. If you compare that to templar's burst, for example, it's like peanuts.
2- Amazing synergy with Light Armor: No other class in the game can wear LA and be as survivable as Sorc. Granted, shields were nerfed but even with that, sorc can make some use of them while keeping a burst potential and extra sustain, both granted by LA. On top of that, LA has cost reduction, which makes the burst combo even cheaper. mDKs and magplars who want to use LA are forced to run things like Brass or BotS, to mediocre results. At the end it is a full heavy set + SpinnerSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Nice, dummy, trying to change the topic to damage.
Where do I start, yet another expert who doesn’t know what they’re talking about:
1. Most abilities get reduced cost as you level them up
2. Battle leveling has no effect on sustain. You get higher max stats but nothing to help regen or ability costs
3. Passives for reduced cost of abilities haven’t been unlocked.
Let me guess, next you’re going to say max mag is sustain. Wrong. It helps a lot less than passives you unlock.
Every alt I’ve ever rolled I’ve noticed sustain is worse at lower levels until I tried a sorc. Arguing lower levels have better sustain is just idiotic, it’s like saying the sun doesn’t rise in the morning. Do you even play the game?
Must correct you on that. I don't know how pvp works, battle spirit and other stuff, but on lower level you get bolstered to proper lewel, so you can no brain do damage and your mana doesn't drain as much since usually you get plenty of recovery from absorb magic glyph or recovery glyphs which are default in mana gear. On first 1-20 levels you always get terrible sustain simply because you don't have enough passives and skills. Then it gets better untill you hit 50 lvl and realise you don't do damage in such setup. And believe me - I have leveled and am playing 12 chars - each class as manadd and stamdd. You can not judge class sustain at level 34. PVE-wise.
What?
Sorry, but if you say that sustain is tied to low dmg in the case of sorcs that's the same for all classes. Granted, at level 50 you do less dmg with that set up, but that's not a exclusive feature of sorc, it happens on each class, so you have to build towards dmg to make your nuke work. The thing is that the decision is way easier on a sorc than on any other class, because they have a naturally built sustain.
Of course Sorc's sustain could be better, but in that case all other classes sustain should be better tooSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the point is sustain for magsorcs is really good, not that sustain needs to be nerfed. It’s a class strength, every class has a strength, or should, and sustain is sorc’s.Edited by Iskiab on October 14, 2019 3:17PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nice, dummy, trying to change the topic to damage.
Where do I start, yet another expert who doesn’t know what they’re talking about:
1. Most abilities get reduced cost as you level them up
2. Battle leveling has no effect on sustain. You get higher max stats but nothing to help regen or ability costs
3. Passives for reduced cost of abilities haven’t been unlocked.
Let me guess, next you’re going to say max mag is sustain. Wrong. It helps a lot less than passives you unlock.
Every alt I’ve ever rolled I’ve noticed sustain is worse at lower levels until I tried a sorc. Arguing lower levels have better sustain is just idiotic, it’s like saying the sun doesn’t rise in the morning. Do you even play the game?
Must correct you on that. I don't know how pvp works, battle spirit and other stuff, but on lower level you get bolstered to proper lewel, so you can no brain do damage and your mana doesn't drain as much since usually you get plenty of recovery from absorb magic glyph or recovery glyphs which are default in mana gear. On first 1-20 levels you always get terrible sustain simply because you don't have enough passives and skills. Then it gets better untill you hit 50 lvl and realise you don't do damage in such setup. And believe me - I have leveled and am playing 12 chars - each class as manadd and stamdd. You can not judge class sustain at level 34. PVE-wise.
What?
Sorry, but if you say that sustain is tied to low dmg in the case of sorcs that's the same for all classes. Granted, at level 50 you do less dmg with that set up, but that's not a exclusive feature of sorc, it happens on each class, so you have to build towards dmg to make your nuke work. The thing is that the decision is way easier on a sorc than on any other class, because they have a naturally built sustain.
Of course Sorc's sustain could be better, but in that case all other classes sustain should be better too
Do you know mag sorc is basically a one shot under pressure this patch unless you drain 8k mag per second to keep those shields up ?
Edited by PhoenixGrey on October 14, 2019 3:50PM2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Nice, dummy, trying to change the topic to damage.
Where do I start, yet another expert who doesn’t know what they’re talking about:
1. Most abilities get reduced cost as you level them up
2. Battle leveling has no effect on sustain. You get higher max stats but nothing to help regen or ability costs
3. Passives for reduced cost of abilities haven’t been unlocked.
Let me guess, next you’re going to say max mag is sustain. Wrong. It helps a lot less than passives you unlock.
Every alt I’ve ever rolled I’ve noticed sustain is worse at lower levels until I tried a sorc. Arguing lower levels have better sustain is just idiotic, it’s like saying the sun doesn’t rise in the morning. Do you even play the game?
Must correct you on that. I don't know how pvp works, battle spirit and other stuff, but on lower level you get bolstered to proper lewel, so you can no brain do damage and your mana doesn't drain as much since usually you get plenty of recovery from absorb magic glyph or recovery glyphs which are default in mana gear. On first 1-20 levels you always get terrible sustain simply because you don't have enough passives and skills. Then it gets better untill you hit 50 lvl and realise you don't do damage in such setup. And believe me - I have leveled and am playing 12 chars - each class as manadd and stamdd. You can not judge class sustain at level 34. PVE-wise.
What?
Sorry, but if you say that sustain is tied to low dmg in the case of sorcs that's the same for all classes. Granted, at level 50 you do less dmg with that set up, but that's not a exclusive feature of sorc, it happens on each class, so you have to build towards dmg to make your nuke work. The thing is that the decision is way easier on a sorc than on any other class, because they have a naturally built sustain.
Of course Sorc's sustain could be better, but in that case all other classes sustain should be better too
Do you know mag sorc is basically a one shot under pressure this patch unless you drain 8k mag per second to keep those shields up ?
8K Per second? Is that a Hyperbole?
unless you are facing a very huge zerg, I don't see how a Sorc could be casting 2 shields in one second. Not to mention 2 shields that cost 4k each without cost reduction.
On the other hand, I understand that Sorcs don't have to worry about the stam pool as much as other classes. That's a huge advantage, since even magicka classes have to rely on blocking and dodge rolling as mitigation tools. Everything can go to magicka and magicka recovery (something to health to increase the shields)
No, by no way sustain is a problem on sorcs. In fact I dare you to name one magicka class with better sustain than sorc in PVP (mageblade could be a good option though)Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Nice, dummy, trying to change the topic to damage.
Where do I start, yet another expert who doesn’t know what they’re talking about:
1. Most abilities get reduced cost as you level them up
2. Battle leveling has no effect on sustain. You get higher max stats but nothing to help regen or ability costs
3. Passives for reduced cost of abilities haven’t been unlocked.
Let me guess, next you’re going to say max mag is sustain. Wrong. It helps a lot less than passives you unlock.
Every alt I’ve ever rolled I’ve noticed sustain is worse at lower levels until I tried a sorc. Arguing lower levels have better sustain is just idiotic, it’s like saying the sun doesn’t rise in the morning. Do you even play the game?
Must correct you on that. I don't know how pvp works, battle spirit and other stuff, but on lower level you get bolstered to proper lewel, so you can no brain do damage and your mana doesn't drain as much since usually you get plenty of recovery from absorb magic glyph or recovery glyphs which are default in mana gear. On first 1-20 levels you always get terrible sustain simply because you don't have enough passives and skills. Then it gets better untill you hit 50 lvl and realise you don't do damage in such setup. And believe me - I have leveled and am playing 12 chars - each class as manadd and stamdd. You can not judge class sustain at level 34. PVE-wise.
What?
Sorry, but if you say that sustain is tied to low dmg in the case of sorcs that's the same for all classes. Granted, at level 50 you do less dmg with that set up, but that's not a exclusive feature of sorc, it happens on each class, so you have to build towards dmg to make your nuke work. The thing is that the decision is way easier on a sorc than on any other class, because they have a naturally built sustain.
Of course Sorc's sustain could be better, but in that case all other classes sustain should be better too
Do you know mag sorc is basically a one shot under pressure this patch unless you drain 8k mag per second to keep those shields up ?
8K Per second? Is that a Hyperbole?
unless you are facing a very huge zerg, I don't see how a Sorc could be casting 2 shields in one second. Not to mention 2 shields that cost 4k each without cost reduction.
On the other hand, I understand that Sorcs don't have to worry about the stam pool as much as other classes. That's a huge advantage, since even magicka classes have to rely on blocking and dodge rolling as mitigation tools. Everything can go to magicka and magicka recovery (something to health to increase the shields)
No, by no way sustain is a problem on sorcs. In fact I dare you to name one magicka class with better sustain than sorc in PVP (mageblade could be a good option though)
Mag dk, mag templar. Easily.
Mag dk has the bar space to slot ele drain and has battleroar which rewards forward momentum with even more offensive power to stay offensive. Rune from templar is a great sustain skill, as is ritual (purging dots is a lot cheaper than spamming shields/heals to try and survive them).
Mag sorc sustain is horrendous unless you play without shields or are farming potatoes rapidly so endless fury keeps you topped off.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the point is sustain for magsorcs is really good, not that sustain needs to be nerfed. It’s a class strength, every class has a strength, or should, and sustain is sorc’s.
Have to say i disagree here.
Warden, templar and DK have atleast from my playing experience way better sustain than sorc, nb or necro when comparing the magica specs of each class.
Sorc still being the best out of the bottom 3 because of dark deal - but that´s just shifting mag to stamrec imo.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Nice, dummy, trying to change the topic to damage.
Where do I start, yet another expert who doesn’t know what they’re talking about:
1. Most abilities get reduced cost as you level them up
2. Battle leveling has no effect on sustain. You get higher max stats but nothing to help regen or ability costs
3. Passives for reduced cost of abilities haven’t been unlocked.
Let me guess, next you’re going to say max mag is sustain. Wrong. It helps a lot less than passives you unlock.
Every alt I’ve ever rolled I’ve noticed sustain is worse at lower levels until I tried a sorc. Arguing lower levels have better sustain is just idiotic, it’s like saying the sun doesn’t rise in the morning. Do you even play the game?
Must correct you on that. I don't know how pvp works, battle spirit and other stuff, but on lower level you get bolstered to proper lewel, so you can no brain do damage and your mana doesn't drain as much since usually you get plenty of recovery from absorb magic glyph or recovery glyphs which are default in mana gear. On first 1-20 levels you always get terrible sustain simply because you don't have enough passives and skills. Then it gets better untill you hit 50 lvl and realise you don't do damage in such setup. And believe me - I have leveled and am playing 12 chars - each class as manadd and stamdd. You can not judge class sustain at level 34. PVE-wise.
What?
Sorry, but if you say that sustain is tied to low dmg in the case of sorcs that's the same for all classes. Granted, at level 50 you do less dmg with that set up, but that's not a exclusive feature of sorc, it happens on each class, so you have to build towards dmg to make your nuke work. The thing is that the decision is way easier on a sorc than on any other class, because they have a naturally built sustain.
Of course Sorc's sustain could be better, but in that case all other classes sustain should be better too
Do you know mag sorc is basically a one shot under pressure this patch unless you drain 8k mag per second to keep those shields up ?
8K Per second? Is that a Hyperbole?
unless you are facing a very huge zerg, I don't see how a Sorc could be casting 2 shields in one second. Not to mention 2 shields that cost 4k each without cost reduction.
On the other hand, I understand that Sorcs don't have to worry about the stam pool as much as other classes. That's a huge advantage, since even magicka classes have to rely on blocking and dodge rolling as mitigation tools. Everything can go to magicka and magicka recovery (something to health to increase the shields)
No, by no way sustain is a problem on sorcs. In fact I dare you to name one magicka class with better sustain than sorc in PVP (mageblade could be a good option though)
You do realise that the sorc meta over the last couple of years is a mixture of 17-18k stam, 1k+ stam regen and well fitted, while their sustain tool to replenish their magicka literally costs stamina right? You may want to rethink that bolded part. This isnt 2015-2016 anymore.Edited by pieratsos on October 14, 2019 6:15PM3 -
Alidel✭✭✭✭
Nice, dummy, trying to change the topic to damage.
Where do I start, yet another expert who doesn’t know what they’re talking about:
1. Most abilities get reduced cost as you level them up
2. Battle leveling has no effect on sustain. You get higher max stats but nothing to help regen or ability costs
3. Passives for reduced cost of abilities haven’t been unlocked.
Let me guess, next you’re going to say max mag is sustain. Wrong. It helps a lot less than passives you unlock.
Every alt I’ve ever rolled I’ve noticed sustain is worse at lower levels until I tried a sorc. Arguing lower levels have better sustain is just idiotic, it’s like saying the sun doesn’t rise in the morning. Do you even play the game?
Must correct you on that. I don't know how pvp works, battle spirit and other stuff, but on lower level you get bolstered to proper lewel, so you can no brain do damage and your mana doesn't drain as much since usually you get plenty of recovery from absorb magic glyph or recovery glyphs which are default in mana gear. On first 1-20 levels you always get terrible sustain simply because you don't have enough passives and skills. Then it gets better untill you hit 50 lvl and realise you don't do damage in such setup. And believe me - I have leveled and am playing 12 chars - each class as manadd and stamdd. You can not judge class sustain at level 34. PVE-wise.
What?
Sorry, but if you say that sustain is tied to low dmg in the case of sorcs that's the same for all classes. Granted, at level 50 you do less dmg with that set up, but that's not a exclusive feature of sorc, it happens on each class, so you have to build towards dmg to make your nuke work. The thing is that the decision is way easier on a sorc than on any other class, because they have a naturally built sustain.
Of course Sorc's sustain could be better, but in that case all other classes sustain should be better too
You have probably missed that I numerous times said I'm talking about PVE specifically and also that I mentioned about sustain issues on most if not all mag classes. In PVE you don't care about burst, you need sustained damage and sorc is pretty terrible in that if you're not going dots/pets + ha.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the point is sustain for magsorcs is really good, not that sustain needs to be nerfed. It’s a class strength, every class has a strength, or should, and sustain is sorc’s.
Have to say i disagree here.
Warden, templar and DK have atleast from my playing experience way better sustain than sorc, nb or necro when comparing the magica specs of each class.
Sorc still being the best out of the bottom 3 because of dark deal - but that´s just shifting mag to stamrec imo.
Is it a build issue or actually a class issue? Most sorcs I see devote next to nothing for sustain with 3x spell harm glyphs for more burst. Meanwhile coming from a magblade most agree you need 2400 mag regen to be effective.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
fbours✭✭✭I think the point is sustain for magsorcs is really good, not that sustain needs to be nerfed. It’s a class strength, every class has a strength, or should, and sustain is sorc’s.
Have to say i disagree here.
Warden, templar and DK have atleast from my playing experience way better sustain than sorc, nb or necro when comparing the magica specs of each class.
Sorc still being the best out of the bottom 3 because of dark deal - but that´s just shifting mag to stamrec imo.
Is it a build issue or actually a class issue? Most sorcs I see devote next to nothing for sustain with 3x spell harm glyphs for more burst. Meanwhile coming from a magblade most agree you need 2400 mag regen to be effective.
I have about 1300 mag regen in my magblade and I've been "ranked" in bgs several times, I can perma cloack enought to get in and out. Not the best magnb, not even close, but I would like to say I am average. I do use pots like a crackhead tho..0