All you magdk players, what are the disadvantages of playing a magdk in your opinion, been playing one for a couple weeks now and I don’t see any. We get 2 unblockable undodgeable CC, (fossilize and leap) the best class heal in the game, the ability to charge up flames of oblivion for 15k whips (out of combat at that) can stack in to speed so mobility is no problem, can use shadowrend for less damage taken, be nord for extra tankieness, use meditate for unlimited sustain( bashing it works maybe.. sometimes..bugged?) and all the dots. I like it. It’s my new main. Thoughts?
zParallaxz wrote: »All you magdk players, what are the disadvantages of playing a magdk in your opinion, been playing one for a couple weeks now and I don’t see any. We get 2 unblockable undodgeable CC, (fossilize and leap) the best class heal in the game, the ability to charge up flames of oblivion for 15k whips (out of combat at that) can stack in to speed so mobility is no problem, can use shadowrend for less damage taken, be nord for extra tankieness, use meditate for unlimited sustain( bashing it works maybe.. sometimes..bugged?) and all the dots. I like it. It’s my new main. Thoughts?
Yeah your definitely doing none of that in high level solo pvp. Magdk excels in 1v1s in targeted scenarios, anything else besides that it can be put done by another class. I definitely had a laugh when you said they had the best heal in the game. I don’t mean to come off like a jerk but do you really think it’s better than matriarch heal, breath of life, and warden class heal.
WillhelmBlack wrote: »Whilst you can go down the stacking ardent flame abilities and spell damage route and kill a lot of people 1 on 1. What most people miss about magicka dragonknight was being able to sustain through long fights and using expertly timed burst with Deep Breath, Power Lash and Ult.
Being able to charge into hords of players and locking them all down, playing the long game, getting kills the smart way whilst being able to block and soak a lot of damage. That was the pinnacle of ESO PvP IMO. If you'd played it back then it honestly does bring a tear to your eye how that just isn't possible anymore.
Yeah you can make a useless tank that doesn't die even in this current DoT meta but that's not what mag DK was.
Lazarus_Rising wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »Whilst you can go down the stacking ardent flame abilities and spell damage route and kill a lot of people 1 on 1. What most people miss about magicka dragonknight was being able to sustain through long fights and using expertly timed burst with Deep Breath, Power Lash and Ult.
Being able to charge into hords of players and locking them all down, playing the long game, getting kills the smart way whilst being able to block and soak a lot of damage. That was the pinnacle of ESO PvP IMO. If you'd played it back then it honestly does bring a tear to your eye how that just isn't possible anymore.
Yeah you can make a useless tank that doesn't die even in this current DoT meta but that's not what mag DK was.
Do you think this is balanced then?
Lazarus_Rising wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »Whilst you can go down the stacking ardent flame abilities and spell damage route and kill a lot of people 1 on 1. What most people miss about magicka dragonknight was being able to sustain through long fights and using expertly timed burst with Deep Breath, Power Lash and Ult.
Being able to charge into hords of players and locking them all down, playing the long game, getting kills the smart way whilst being able to block and soak a lot of damage. That was the pinnacle of ESO PvP IMO. If you'd played it back then it honestly does bring a tear to your eye how that just isn't possible anymore.
Yeah you can make a useless tank that doesn't die even in this current DoT meta but that's not what mag DK was.
Do you think this is balanced then?
I went up against you in a BG yesterday on my stamplar. You killed me a couple times when I let myself run completely out of resources fighting other players, and then you showed up and I couldn't get away from your roots. I'm an experienced enough player to know that's stupid and not to let myself run completely to zero (and yet I do it anyway sometimes because derp), but plenty of BG players aren't that careful. For players like that, running into a decent magDK can feel like an impossible proposition.take your mDK main into bg's for a bit and play some DM's. not 1 or 2, but 20 or 30 - so that you can experience matches against players that regularly play bg's.
then come back and let me hear about all of your mDK benefits. I can't wait.
khajiitNPC wrote: »Loving my mDK, PvP wise it has great sustain, great damage — even before the buff to single target DoTs. So after the next PTS it should still perform relatively the same when they get toned down. Excels 1 on 1. Even in light armor it hits decent resists. Healing is on point. Group play it’s a monster.
GhostofDatthaw wrote: »People say it's a Templar meta, it's a low key magdk meta
khajiitNPC wrote: »I agree — mDK is super strong in good hands. I have a very cheesy mDK build that I didn’t even list because I feel so dirty even putting it out there. Goes toe to toe with Templars no problem.
khajiitNPC wrote: »I agree — mDK is super strong in good hands. I have a very cheesy mDK build that I didn’t even list because I feel so dirty even putting it out there. Goes toe to toe with Templars no problem.
BlackMadara wrote: »@Iskiab You can approach sustain in a few ways, and I suggest using multiple instead of stacking into one category.
I don't suggest shalk for sustain. You get 46 resource per ult point, shalk gives 0.67 ult/second, so that's equal to 61 recovery (per 2 seconds). Blood spawn is a good option, with max 2.33 ult/second, so 215 recovery if ult dropped on cd. Base ult gen is equal to 184 recovery.
A source of minor magicka steal is extremely useful. 300 mag/second, so 600 recovery. Another potentially useful skill is meditate.
Applying burning gives 500 magicka back. Using a destro staff, charged weapon, or both, could yield a nice amount of magicka, although it's up to chance. Theorically, a destro staff using 2 fire dots, a fire enchant, and whip should yield an average of 200 recovery.
Cost reduction is nice due to high cost utility skills. Breton or certain sets. I don't suggest stacking into raw mag recovery, due to not having any passives that increase that stat. You can however, and still find success. Other sets that give bursts of resource can work if played around.
Heavy attacks with destro staves are a bit too slow for reliable recovery. Resto staves give a larger amount of magicka, however, and can be combined with hots to prevent being burst down.
Overall, I try to combine all of my sources of recovery to hit at least 2000 theoretically. My stat page mag recovery is 900. I have adjusted my playstyle to accommodate this low stat recovery with the other means of magicka gain I listed above.
@Bdawwg Building tanky in light is better than building damage in heavy. The only real reasons to go heavy are for off stat return, in this case stamina, and increased healing.
For magDK, you get enough stamina return with the helping hands passive and battle roar, depending on playstyle of course. If building for block, heavy is good
MagDK also has a variety of means to heal in combat. From flame lash, burning embers, inhale, as offensive examples, to coag blood and cauterize as defensive examples, there are plenty of means to heal.
Overall, MagDK has options of play that can be quite successful without devoting raw stats. This is what people mean by saying that a well played and built DK is extremely strong.
My only gripe with magdk as a class is a lack of reliable hots. Cauterize is a burst heal every 5 sec, burning embers takes 8 seconds, the rest is all burst heals apart from cinder storm which isnt viable. I love running double destro on DK, but tbh even having a resto staff doesn't cut it on magdk in this cancerous dot meta. Otherwise the class seems in a good place.
Still doesn't make it a HoT. Only good HoT magdk has is from flame lash, but imo molten whip is simply needed if you want any form of burst on magdk.My only gripe with magdk as a class is a lack of reliable hots. Cauterize is a burst heal every 5 sec, burning embers takes 8 seconds, the rest is all burst heals apart from cinder storm which isnt viable. I love running double destro on DK, but tbh even having a resto staff doesn't cut it on magdk in this cancerous dot meta. Otherwise the class seems in a good place.
You can force the burning embers heal by hitting a target you already hit with burning embers.
BlackMadara wrote: »@Iskiab You can approach sustain in a few ways, and I suggest using multiple instead of stacking into one category.
I don't suggest shalk for sustain. You get 46 resource per ult point, shalk gives 0.67 ult/second, so that's equal to 61 recovery (per 2 seconds). Blood spawn is a good option, with max 2.33 ult/second, so 215 recovery if ult dropped on cd. Base ult gen is equal to 184 recovery.
A source of minor magicka steal is extremely useful. 300 mag/second, so 600 recovery. Another potentially useful skill is meditate.
Applying burning gives 500 magicka back. Using a destro staff, charged weapon, or both, could yield a nice amount of magicka, although it's up to chance. Theorically, a destro staff using 2 fire dots, a fire enchant, and whip should yield an average of 200 recovery.
Cost reduction is nice due to high cost utility skills. Breton or certain sets. I don't suggest stacking into raw mag recovery, due to not having any passives that increase that stat. You can however, and still find success. Other sets that give bursts of resource can work if played around.
Heavy attacks with destro staves are a bit too slow for reliable recovery. Resto staves give a larger amount of magicka, however, and can be combined with hots to prevent being burst down.
Overall, I try to combine all of my sources of recovery to hit at least 2000 theoretically. My stat page mag recovery is 900. I have adjusted my playstyle to accommodate this low stat recovery with the other means of magicka gain I listed above.
@Bdawwg Building tanky in light is better than building damage in heavy. The only real reasons to go heavy are for off stat return, in this case stamina, and increased healing.
For magDK, you get enough stamina return with the helping hands passive and battle roar, depending on playstyle of course. If building for block, heavy is good
MagDK also has a variety of means to heal in combat. From flame lash, burning embers, inhale, as offensive examples, to coag blood and cauterize as defensive examples, there are plenty of means to heal.
Overall, MagDK has options of play that can be quite successful without devoting raw stats. This is what people mean by saying that a well played and built DK is extremely strong.
@BlackMadara
That’s really interesting. All my favourite build tactics are coming from a magblade and it sounds like DKs are totally different and I’ll need to adapt more than I thought.
My thinking as a pvp healer was to use the DW BRP MH Nirn and OH decisive to increase my Ult gain for sustain. Jorvlund as my main set, shalk only on my back bar or not using a monster set. That way every cast of blade cloak will also give major protection along with evasion, with the duration extended by jorvlund.
Another wacky option I was thinking about is the master’s sword and board instead and using puncture too to add minor protection on top of everything else. It depends on how many shards I can spam to keep my stamina up to use stamina abilities. I also really like Symbiosis to get around melee range on stamina weapons, but still benefit from the much higher weapon damage, since it turns all light attacks into ranged heals.... but it does rule out an effective heavy attack for sustain.
I’m thinking jorvlund is a no-brainer as a DK pvp healer. What would you recommend to add on top of that? Willpower and weapon sets, since willpower is getting a buff, 2x 5 piece sets or something different? Using Symbiosis means heavy attacking with a resto staff is unavailable unfortunately.
Oh another thing, I’ve been using bloodspawn on almost all my builds because it looks great on paper. I’ve been going through CMX and it looks like it only has a 20-30% uptime, it’s hard to get an accurate read since the % uptime on CMX is tied to how long you’re in combat and cyrodiil can be buggy with keeping you in combat. The range I found on CMX was 6-30%.
BaiterOfZergs wrote: »GhostofDatthaw wrote: »People say it's a Templar meta, it's a low key magdk meta
Definitely a Templar meta but Magdk is right behind them in power, it’s just not as simple to play magdk.