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How is "creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race" coming along?

GrumpyDuckling
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From back in January:
"Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1

The racial removal of Bosmer stealth was a big turnoff for me. Has there been anything added yet that supports ZOS' intent to create more options/systems for stealth gameplay? All I've seen so far was the Darloc Brae set, which costs a 5 piece set and still doesn't allow Bosmer to regain the full power of their previous stealth ability.
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    I am utterly indifferent to this. Bosmer are supposed to be BETTER at stealth than nearly every race, with it being a coin-toss between them and Khajiit. Anything they will do with "more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race" results in Bosmer being no stealthier than any Orc (traditionally the least stealthy of all races) and completely outclassed by Khajiit, which is complete and utter garbage. My wallet remains lost until Bosmer have racial passives that at least equal those of Khajiit so far as stealth is concerned.

    But I suspect it was a prevarication, just to try to temporarily smooth over the outrage until people grew to accept this bucket of slop.
    Edited by Cundu_Ertur on September 9, 2019 12:00AM
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • Araneae6537
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    From back in January:
    "Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1

    The racial removal of Bosmer stealth was a big turnoff for me. Has there been anything added yet that supports ZOS' intent to create more options/systems for stealth gameplay? All I've seen so far was the Darloc Brae set, which costs a 5 piece set and still doesn't allow Bosmer to regain the full power of their previous stealth ability.

    I think it was stupid to remove the Bosmer bonus to stealth. :( It could have been different from the Khajiit and I don’t care whether the races were equal in stealth or one of them better but both should be better than other races. The Darloc Brae set is no substitute as split stamina / magicka recovery is not that good and I hate the sparkly effect when crouching. :angry:
  • Jhalin
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    We all know that was lip service and they never had any intention of creating more stealth options, especially not anything to restore the lore that has been part of the Bosmer identity for decades.
  • mague
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    From back in January:
    "Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1

    The racial removal of Bosmer stealth was a big turnoff for me. Has there been anything added yet that supports ZOS' intent to create more options/systems for stealth gameplay? All I've seen so far was the Darloc Brae set, which costs a 5 piece set and still doesn't allow Bosmer to regain the full power of their previous stealth ability.

    Khajiit are at max, they can get as close as they want. Thats why it wouldnt hurt if Zenimax just raises the passive skill on medium from 5 to 8% or whatever is needed. Khajiit then has the advantage to be able to wear only 5 medium while others need 7 medium. Testet with Khajiit vs. Nord vs. Bosmer. Any race is on par with Khajiit with 7 medium plus a set with +2 meters.

    I think the best set is Night Mother's Embrace. Rather easy to get in Deeshan or from Guild Trader. It would be good if there was a craftable set with reduced radius and cost. Maybe in a future DLC. It should be a set that reduces sneak and falling damage. Peace to Bosmer and Khajiit. Something like:

    Rags of the Goblin:

    (2) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
    (3) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4) Adds 1206 Max Health
    (5) Reduce the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 15%
    (5) Reduce falling damage by 8%


    For completeness the real available sets:

    Night Mother's Embrace.

    (2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
    (3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
    (4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (5 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
    (5 items) Reduce the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 25%

    Night Terror form Stormhaven is a nice set for sneaky hamsters too. I never tried to combine them ;)

    (2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
    (3 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak cost by 27%.
    (4 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
    (5 items) When you take melee damage, you deal 2000 Poison Damage to the attacker. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
    Edited by mague on September 10, 2019 7:06AM
  • Major_Lag
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    mague wrote: »
    Night Terror form Stormhaven is a nice set for sneaky hamsters too. I never tried to combine them ;)
    I use Darloc's + Night Terror + Night's Silence on my non-NB characters. It's pretty crazy, even on a non-Khajit you can run right past an enemy within an arm's length and not get detected :D (not from the front though; the frontal detection range with this setup is 2 meters IIRC)

    This combination is perfect for Heists/Sacraments :)
    Edited by Major_Lag on September 10, 2019 4:41PM
  • Dalsinthus
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    I seriously doubt that any new system for stealth is coming and if it does, it won't make Bosmer better than any other race at stealth. The promise of new systems someday later felt pretty hollow at the time and has not been mentioned since. I hate the change to Bosmer from both a lore and gameplay perspective - it seriously soured me on ZOS and the game in general - but I doubt they will ever revert this.
  • Araneae6537
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    mague wrote: »
    From back in January:
    "Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1

    The racial removal of Bosmer stealth was a big turnoff for me. Has there been anything added yet that supports ZOS' intent to create more options/systems for stealth gameplay? All I've seen so far was the Darloc Brae set, which costs a 5 piece set and still doesn't allow Bosmer to regain the full power of their previous stealth ability.

    Khajiit are at max, they can get as close as they want. Thats why it wouldnt hurt if Zenimax just raises the passive skill on medium from 5 to 8% or whatever is needed. Khajiit then has the advantage to be able to wear only 5 medium while others need 7 medium. Testet with Khajiit vs. Nord vs. Bosmer. Any race is on par with Khajiit with 7 medium plus a set with +2 meters.

    I think the best set is Night Mother's Embrace. Rather easy to get in Deeshan or from Guild Trader. It would be good if there was a craftable set with reduced radius and cost. Maybe in a future DLC. It should be a set that reduces sneak and falling damage. Peace to Bosmer and Khajiit. Something like:

    Rags of the Goblin:

    (2) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
    (3) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4) Adds 1206 Max Health
    (5) Reduce the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 15%
    (5) Reduce falling damage by 8%


    For completeness the real available sets:

    Night Mother's Embrace.

    (2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
    (3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
    (4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (5 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
    (5 items) Reduce the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 25%

    Night Terror form Stormhaven is a nice set for sneaky hamsters too. I never tried to combine them ;)

    (2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
    (3 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak cost by 27%.
    (4 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
    (5 items) When you take melee damage, you deal 2000 Poison Damage to the attacker. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

    Thank for this info! I will work on getting these sets for my Bosmer nightblade. :) As I mentioned, I hate the weird visual effect from Darloc Brae (first time I saw it, I thought it was some kind of cue that I was unable to stealth at that time, lol) so I am glad there are other options. Why can one not also boost stealth (shrink detection radius) through enchantments??? I wouldn’t care if they were PvE only and of course one would be giving up the option to use the slot for another boost so I don’t think it would be OP. And how about options we could spend CP points on? Shade only reduces the cost of sneak. :/

  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Dalsinthus wrote: »
    I seriously doubt that any new system for stealth is coming and if it does, it won't make Bosmer better than any other race at stealth. The promise of new systems someday later felt pretty hollow at the time and has not been mentioned since. I hate the change to Bosmer from both a lore and gameplay perspective - it seriously soured me on ZOS and the game in general - but I doubt they will ever revert this.

    I hear you. ESO is a game that I really enjoyed, but a couple of the racial changes were simply indefensible, and really turned me off to the point where I didn't feel like playing it this summer:

    1) ZOS knew they were upsetting players with Bosmer and Argonian changes
    2) they trashed lore
    3) they directly contradicted in-game dialogue (Argonian)

    Seeing ZOS offer poor to little defense of those changes really sits bad with me. I hate hearing them use words like "logical" to describe changes they make to other areas of the game because they didn't apply those standards to all of the racial changes.
  • Deathlord92
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    I look forward to this for my Breton assassin 😎
  • D3N7157
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    No please don’t remind them there are so few stealthy bowblades in cyro at the minute it’s almost playable minus the dots and the lag
  • BNOC
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    D3N7157 wrote: »
    No please don’t remind them there are so few stealthy bowblades in cyro at the minute it’s almost playable minus the dots and the lag

    Pretty sure this is a discussion revolved around roleplay
    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • BlueRaven
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    BNOC wrote: »
    D3N7157 wrote: »
    No please don’t remind them there are so few stealthy bowblades in cyro at the minute it’s almost playable minus the dots and the lag

    Pretty sure this is a discussion revolved around roleplay

    And two purchased dlcs.
    And two skill lines.
    And a good way to make gold....
  • Finedaible
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    From back in January:
    "Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1

    [...] All I've seen so far was the Darloc Brae set, which costs a 5 piece set and still doesn't allow Bosmer to regain the full power of their previous stealth ability.

    Judging from previous decisions from ZoS, the release of the Darloc Brae set is very likely what they were referring to when they said that. It's easier for them to churn out another crappy armor set than it is to create meaningful character depth and specializations. I don't play Bosmer and didn't really care for their loss of stealth, but that new roll-dodge passive was the dumbest idea I've seen on here in a long time.
  • VaranisArano
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    I look forward to this for my Breton assassin 😎

    My Breton assassin concurs!
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Still nothing? I'm guessing still no answer to this. This must be the improved communication that we've been hearing about. They've improved their ability to ignore us.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • BlueRaven
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    Still nothing? I'm guessing still no answer to this. This must be the improved communication that we've been hearing about. They've improved their ability to ignore us.

    Ignoring us is to improved communications, as stealth detect is to keeping stealth gameplay I guess.

  • max_only
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    BNOC wrote: »
    D3N7157 wrote: »
    No please don’t remind them there are so few stealthy bowblades in cyro at the minute it’s almost playable minus the dots and the lag

    Pretty sure this is a discussion revolved around roleplay

    As if roleplay is a curse word.

    25 years of precedent and people are dismissive and condescending.

    “Just delete all Argonians everyone made since this game started 5 years ago and replace them with another green color humanoid. Oh and you have to skip rope Emote and waste 2k stamina just to get a small pvp buff.“

    That’s what people like you sound like when you invalidate a reasonable expectation.
    Edited by max_only on October 18, 2019 12:09AM
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Any update on this, yet?
  • Jaraal
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    Even if they add universal stealth mechanics, Bosmer will still be the worst race at stealth. Not only does passive stealth detection (Hunter’s Eye) alert hidden enemy players to your presence before any other race, but we actually have to come out of stealth to use our racial passive by roll dodging.

    The lore still remains broken.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • ketsparrowhawk
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    They already did it. It's call Vesture of Darloc Brae. Pretty sure that's all they meant when they said they would "work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
  • Dalsinthus
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    They already did it. It's call Vesture of Darloc Brae. Pretty sure that's all they meant when they said they would "work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
    You may be right but that's a weak sauce solution to this problem that they created.
  • BlueRaven
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    They already did it. It's call Vesture of Darloc Brae. Pretty sure that's all they meant when they said they would "work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."

    Yes, because in lore Bosmer are stealthy because they all attend the same tailor... In Elsweyr.

    Edited by BlueRaven on October 28, 2019 6:31PM
  • Gnortranermara
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    In an ideal world:

    Sneak radius reduction:
    Bosmer, Khajiit, Argonian, and Dunmer

    Detection radius increase:
    Bosmer and Khajiit

    That would fix Bosmer and enhance Shadowscale and Morag Tong characters with very little real combat significance.
  • Vlad9425
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    People in this community think that Cloak is OP so any hope of stealth being buffed died long ago when all the decent players moved on to other games and got replaced by people who cry for nerfs any time they get killed.
  • BlueRaven
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    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    People in this community think that Cloak is OP so any hope of stealth being buffed died long ago when all the decent players moved on to other games and got replaced by people who cry for nerfs any time they get killed.

    This feels true, I am just hopeful it isn’t. But then again this combat team does not inspire a lot of hope.
  • Jaraal
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    In an ideal world:

    Sneak radius reduction:
    Bosmer, Khajiit, Argonian, and Dunmer

    Detection radius increase:
    Bosmer and Khajiit

    That would fix Bosmer and enhance Shadowscale and Morag Tong characters with very little real combat significance.

    I agree with the lore friendly choices for stealthy races. However, stealth detection is actually a negative in PvP, because your detection "eye" will open much sooner when you are hidden and a Bosmer approaches. So, even if he/she can't see you yet, you will know they are there. This has been verified with screenshots from both players' perspective in a now closed thread.

    You shouldn't be forced to be put at a disadvantage because of your race, and there are (essentially unused) armor sets that can give you the option to turn it on and off at will, like you can with Magelight, Expert/Evil Hunter, and detect pots, if you actually want to use detection.

    Also, since stealth detection works NOWHERE except PvP, it's a slap in the face to folks who are primarily PvEers, since they basically get zero benefit from that part of their racials. Racial passives should apply to all, not just select dev preferred playstyles.


    Edited by Jaraal on October 29, 2019 2:00AM
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    I’ve been a bosmer on my main since beta. Stealth was never an issue. Even with justice system introduced and the more recent change to bosmer passive, it’s no different. No one sees me unless I’m paying zero attention to what I’m doing. The amount is so small of a bonus it really doesn’t matter. Any race can be sneaky anyways. Or roll NB hahaha.

    Out of all the issues in this game this is one of the smallest as it doesn’t break the game like the bugs we are faced with at the moment.

    Honestly, if they gave bosmer stealth bonus back, knowing ZoS, they would try and “balance” and remove something else and I like the bosmer passives as they are. We would just end up with a multitude of people on the forums making just as many posts wanting them to revert to how it is currently lol.
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    If it's such a nothing, then give it back.
    As for what they can take, they can have the horribly OP detection bonus*. Heck, they should give us something else in return for that if the hiding bonus is so completely trivial.

    *You know, the same bonus as is granted from the over-priced and terribly expensive Way of Air and Senty sets that everyone is clamoring to get their hands on.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • Jaraal
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    *You know, the same bonus as is granted from the over-priced and terribly expensive Way of Air and Senty sets that everyone is clamoring to get their hands on.

    Absolutely crazy how out of control the prices are on such an overpowered set. I guess we should be grateful we get it as a racial bonus at no cost to us!

    (Well, I guess it would cost us 3 skill points, if we really wanted to spend them on it.)


    sDLCFxI.png
    Edited by Jaraal on October 30, 2019 4:08AM
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • max_only
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    I’ve been a bosmer on my main since beta. Stealth was never an issue. Even with justice system introduced and the more recent change to bosmer passive, it’s no different. No one sees me unless I’m paying zero attention to what I’m doing. The amount is so small of a bonus it really doesn’t matter. Any race can be sneaky anyways. Or roll NB hahaha.

    Out of all the issues in this game this is one of the smallest as it doesn’t break the game like the bugs we are faced with at the moment.

    Honestly, if they gave bosmer stealth bonus back, knowing ZoS, they would try and “balance” and remove something else and I like the bosmer passives as they are. We would just end up with a multitude of people on the forums making just as many posts wanting them to revert to how it is currently lol.

    You like being the only race that has to spend stamina to get a temporary bonus that is only useful in pvp, a game mode that only has 3 zones.

    Also, “other bugs are more important” have nothing to do with this. Whataboutism at its worst. That’s like coming into the forums and posting on every thread “Guys, Syria is worse than your complaints”

    The amount is so small it doesn’t matter? You obviously haven’t seen the pictures of khajiit with a bounty literally (Literally in the dictionary sense, not in the colloquial sense) standing on top of guards.

    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
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