Eclipse is overperforming

BlissfulDeluge · August 2019

For context, here is the recent change;

Eclipse: Reworked this ability and its morphs so you will now envelop your target in a sphere of darkness for 4 seconds, which harms them anytime they use a Direct Damage attack. These abilities can now only be active on one target at a time.

Their first attack causes the sphere to hinder them, reducing their Movement Speed by 30% for 4 seconds.
Their second attack causes the sphere to entangle them, immobilizing them for 3 seconds.
Their third attack causes the sphere to smother them, stunning them for 3 seconds.
These effect can only occur once every second.
Note that the sphere can no longer be CC broken early, but can still be cleansed.

So that sounds pretty interesting, right? Pretty fun, even! Well you know what? It isn't.

It looks good on paper, but the Eclipse ability, which by all accounts should count as a CC and apply CC immunity, doesn't apply CC immunity at all, which means you get trapped in the eclipse, with no other way to break free than to cleanse it, while other CCs can be tossed at you.

That isn't fun at all. Genuine question, which developer thought this was a good idea? Karen would like to have a word with their manager.

MentalxHammer · August 2019

Chain cc's, seems good!

maxjapank · August 2019

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

For context, here is the recent change;

Eclipse: Reworked this ability and its morphs so you will now envelop your target in a sphere of darkness for 4 seconds, which harms them anytime they use a Direct Damage attack. These abilities can now only be active on one target at a time.
Their first attack causes the sphere to hinder them, reducing their Movement Speed by 30% for 4 seconds.

Their second attack causes the sphere to entangle them, immobilizing them for 3 seconds.

Their third attack causes the sphere to smother them, stunning them for 3 seconds.

These effect can only occur once every second.

Note that the sphere can no longer be CC broken early, but can still be cleansed.

So that sounds pretty interesting, right? Pretty fun, even! Well you know what? It isn't.

It looks good on paper, but the Eclipse ability, which by all accounts should count as a CC and apply CC immunity, doesn't apply CC immunity at all, which means you get trapped in the eclipse, with no other way to break free than to cleanse it, while other CCs can be tossed at you.

That isn't fun at all. Genuine question, which developer thought this was a good idea? Karen would like to have a word with their manager.

How about you read up on the bugs with this skill and how you can also be immune to it? And just maybe play the game a little to experience it? [snip]

[edited for non-constructive comment]

Galarthor · August 2019

It's not like everybody but the Devs has seen this coming.
Guess it's time to turn my magplar into a PVP toon again - such a shame, I just converted her into a PvE healer

And the good part about this is, me being templar makes me pretty much immune to this crap since I do have a cleanse ... unlike those other peasants in Cyrodil.

WillhelmBlack · August 2019

maxjapank wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

For context, here is the recent change;

Eclipse: Reworked this ability and its morphs so you will now envelop your target in a sphere of darkness for 4 seconds, which harms them anytime they use a Direct Damage attack. These abilities can now only be active on one target at a time.
Their first attack causes the sphere to hinder them, reducing their Movement Speed by 30% for 4 seconds.

Their second attack causes the sphere to entangle them, immobilizing them for 3 seconds.

Their third attack causes the sphere to smother them, stunning them for 3 seconds.

These effect can only occur once every second.

Note that the sphere can no longer be CC broken early, but can still be cleansed.

So that sounds pretty interesting, right? Pretty fun, even! Well you know what? It isn't.

It looks good on paper, but the Eclipse ability, which by all accounts should count as a CC and apply CC immunity, doesn't apply CC immunity at all, which means you get trapped in the eclipse, with no other way to break free than to cleanse it, while other CCs can be tossed at you.

That isn't fun at all. Genuine question, which developer thought this was a good idea? Karen would like to have a word with their manager.

Lmao.

No_Division · August 2019

just use an imovable pot. It makes the skill JUST A MAG DUMP LOL

Skander · August 2019

The soft cc is free and it shoudn't be. Every 3 seconds you are stuck with no immunity

Drdeath20 · August 2019

I think it was a decent attempt at making this skill interesting but their are many problems with it.

_Ahala_ · August 2019

This is part of a larger issue... If 100% uptime snares on passives and useful abilities are ok then 100% uptime major expedition from passives and useful abilities should be ok as well

Zos seems really biased against letting people move which is a real shame for people who enjoy that playstyle

Taleof2Cities · August 2019

OP's @ name seems to apply ...

RebornRequiem · August 2019

Skander wrote: »

The soft cc is free and it shoudn't be. Every 3 seconds you are stuck with no immunity

There is immunity to roots. After a dodgeroll and after taking the full duration of a root, you gain immunity to roots for 3 seconds (I think it was 3 seconds, not sure there).

But I agree, the free roots are a bit too much.

Abhaya · August 2019

It has been weird getting hit by this skill. I haven’t been getting any visual cues when it is on me (wasn’t there an orb that is supposed to go around you?) and my character has high uptime on shuffle so I would randomly get immobilized out of nowhere without getting the snare first. After getting hit by it a few times it is easy to recognize what is going on and dodge roll the immobilize. Correct me if I’m wrong but it feels like breaking the immobilize early removes the debuff because I cannot remember getting hit by the CC at the end once or even by the snare for that matter. Maybe I had CC immunity.

It feels no different than any other immobilize to me and is easily countered with a dodge roll. For mag builds without high stamina regen it may be more of an issue to counter. The only issue I have had is getting no visual cues on my end and randomly losing the ability to move.

BRogueNZ · August 2019

y'all never did learn to not attack, so yes dumb it down some more

Xvorg · August 2019

Slot wyrd tree for a free purge, or reactive for extra protection

Imryll · August 2019

All very interesting. Yesterday I specced into Living Dark and have been wondering if it was bugged, because the only thing it seemed to do was to get everyone in Cyrodiil to focus me. It's not seemed to slow down people trying to kill me at all. This is in no CP so maybe it's like shields, where I'd be bewildered when folks complained about their strength when they didn't seem to me to provide much protection at all.

BRogueNZ · August 2019

Imryll wrote: »

All very interesting. Yesterday I specced into Living Dark and have been wondering if it was bugged, because the only thing it seemed to do was to get everyone in Cyrodiil to focus me. It's not seemed to slow down people trying to kill me at all. This is in no CP so maybe it's like shields, where I'd be bewildered when folks complained about their strength when they didn't seem to me to provide much protection at all.

You have the other morph, which should stun for 3 secs

RebornRequiem · August 2019

Abhaya wrote: »

It has been weird getting hit by this skill. I haven’t been getting any visual cues when it is on me (wasn’t there an orb that is supposed to go around you?) and my character has high uptime on shuffle so I would randomly get immobilized out of nowhere without getting the snare first. After getting hit by it a few times it is easy to recognize what is going on and dodge roll the immobilize. Correct me if I’m wrong but it feels like breaking the immobilize early removes the debuff because I cannot remember getting hit by the CC at the end once or even by the snare for that matter. Maybe I had CC immunity.

It feels no different than any other immobilize to me and is easily countered with a dodge roll. For mag builds without high stamina regen it may be more of an issue to counter. The only issue I have had is getting no visual cues on my end and randomly losing the ability to move.

Shufflle only grants a few seconds of snare and root immunity, not the whole duration.

Yes the visual cue of the root is missing. Same goes for silence on incap, which also needs some visual cue. In PvP its mostly too late, whehn you realize beinig under an effect without visuals to react.

No_Division · August 2019

Imryll wrote: »

All very interesting. Yesterday I specced into Living Dark and have been wondering if it was bugged, because the only thing it seemed to do was to get everyone in Cyrodiil to focus me. It's not seemed to slow down people trying to kill me at all. This is in no CP so maybe it's like shields, where I'd be bewildered when folks complained about their strength when they didn't seem to me to provide much protection at all.

Best is when you cast it, and a heavy overload kills you. Reason for this is because channels ignore the proc condition lol.

Ozazz · August 2019

the game needs an immediate fix to this ability asap

No_Division · August 2019

RebornRequiem wrote: »

Abhaya wrote: »

It has been weird getting hit by this skill. I haven’t been getting any visual cues when it is on me (wasn’t there an orb that is supposed to go around you?) and my character has high uptime on shuffle so I would randomly get immobilized out of nowhere without getting the snare first. After getting hit by it a few times it is easy to recognize what is going on and dodge roll the immobilize. Correct me if I’m wrong but it feels like breaking the immobilize early removes the debuff because I cannot remember getting hit by the CC at the end once or even by the snare for that matter. Maybe I had CC immunity.

It feels no different than any other immobilize to me and is easily countered with a dodge roll. For mag builds without high stamina regen it may be more of an issue to counter. The only issue I have had is getting no visual cues on my end and randomly losing the ability to move.

Shufflle only grants a few seconds of snare and root immunity, not the whole duration.

Yes the visual cue of the root is missing. Same goes for silence on incap, which also needs some visual cue. In PvP its mostly too late, whehn you realize beinig under an effect without visuals to react.

the spell should only have the black streaks on your toon. BUT the bubble forms around your target when its about to immobilize.
Other thing you can do is have UC no longer have stun but have the immobilze+smaller dmg until the end when it bursts while living dark has just the heal+minor resist buffs. But its hard to have this discussion when dots are overperforming creating inflated balance, and healing ward grants a similar hot to living dark except more proactive shield that requires no enemy to hit you to get.

It also doesnt help that the nerf brigade got protective/pirate skeleton nerfed in the first 2 weeks of PTS when it was clear the new dots were designed with those types of defenses already present in the nature of ESO combat. And when you cry over a one sided issue, you get one sided answers and the game continues to be this messy.

Either way, I want to see design intents for ALL the classes from the devs. We cannot have honest discussions without those and we can't expect them to truthfully design the classes if we don't know how the devs view the classes. For all we know, they intend magplar to be this immobile middle ranged dreadnought capable of influencing the battlefield but forever stuck in the mud and forever terrible at both melee/ranged combat as a jack of all trades, but they could also just see the class as a boring healer and has DD abilities because pve players will complain if they dont get them. Who knows lol.

jaysins · August 2019

This skill is horrible to play against as the counter play options are almost non-existent and definitely not sustainable. They really need to add the ability to cc break it or change the mechanic to just one of the status effects, instead of the three, so I'm not constantly forced to not attack or keep getting effects applied. Make the damage duration last but the status effects is horrible to play against.

NBrookus · August 2019

No_Division wrote: »

Either way, I want to see design intents for ALL the classes from the devs.[/b] We cannot have honest discussions without those and we can't expect them to truthfully design the classes if we don't know how the devs view the classes. For all we know, they intend magplar to be this immobile middle ranged dreadnought capable of influencing the battlefield but forever stuck in the mud and forever terrible at both melee/ranged combat as a jack of all trades, but they could also just see the class as a boring healer and has DD abilities because pve players will complain if they dont get them. Who knows lol.

Agreed. Both magplar and stamden play more like Dragonknight now than DKs do. Magcro, magden and magblade are better group healers. My stamden spores tooltip is almost as high as Honor the Dead, and it's an aoe stamina heal you are guaranteed to get. Magsorc has a better burst heal that's still 360 degrees (for reasons of pet unreliability.) Necro has a much stronger house than templar.

What, exactly, are templars supposed to be?

Nirnroot420 · August 2019

I'd like to say that as a magplar main I don't slot this skill, because I find it beyond clunky and I prefer my CC options to be more active and offensive, so I simply don't have the space for it, and I don't have any experience using it. But, I have played against it plenty now in BGs, and I have one major problem with this skill:

I don't know when I'm being affected by it. Now, I know it stands to reason if a templar has a black orb over them, then if I attack them I'll have negative consequences. That's great. But, in a team fight, when I use, say reflective light and hit multiple targets, and all of a sudden, without any obvious visual cues, I just stop and stand still in place, this skill has a detrimental effect on the gameplay experience.

I'm not saying this skill should be nerfed or anything, but players will become increasingly frustrated if they just keep freezing in place and don't know why. I think the lack of any real indicator of what stage of CC you're on until you're just standing still like a jerk is leading to a lot of justified criticism of how this skill works. Just my two sense tho.

Abhaya · August 2019

Nirnroot420 wrote: »

I'd like to say that as a magplar main I don't slot this skill, because I find it beyond clunky and I prefer my CC options to be more active and offensive, so I simply don't have the space for it, and I don't have any experience using it. But, I have played against it plenty now in BGs, and I have one major problem with this skill:

I don't know when I'm being affected by it. Now, I know it stands to reason if a templar has a black orb over them, then if I attack them I'll have negative consequences. That's great. But, in a team fight, when I use, say reflective light and hit multiple targets, and all of a sudden, without any obvious visual cues, I just stop and stand still in place, this skill has a detrimental effect on the gameplay experience.

I'm not saying this skill should be nerfed or anything, but players will become increasingly frustrated if they just keep freezing in place and don't know why. I think the lack of any real indicator of what stage of CC you're on until you're just standing still like a jerk is leading to a lot of justified criticism of how this skill works. Just my two sense tho.

I agree it really doesn't feel overpowered it just needs a better visual indication of what is happening.

BlissfulDeluge · August 2019

maxjapank wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

For context, here is the recent change;

Eclipse: Reworked this ability and its morphs so you will now envelop your target in a sphere of darkness for 4 seconds, which harms them anytime they use a Direct Damage attack. These abilities can now only be active on one target at a time.
Their first attack causes the sphere to hinder them, reducing their Movement Speed by 30% for 4 seconds.

Their second attack causes the sphere to entangle them, immobilizing them for 3 seconds.

Their third attack causes the sphere to smother them, stunning them for 3 seconds.

These effect can only occur once every second.

Note that the sphere can no longer be CC broken early, but can still be cleansed.

So that sounds pretty interesting, right? Pretty fun, even! Well you know what? It isn't.

It looks good on paper, but the Eclipse ability, which by all accounts should count as a CC and apply CC immunity, doesn't apply CC immunity at all, which means you get trapped in the eclipse, with no other way to break free than to cleanse it, while other CCs can be tossed at you.

That isn't fun at all. Genuine question, which developer thought this was a good idea? Karen would like to have a word with their manager.

How about you read up on the bugs with this skill and how you can also be immune to it? And just maybe play the game a little to experience it? Before you come in here and complain about something being op. Lmao.

For your information, I only complained after having seen this ability in action, and then asking a few friends to chain this CC with others in a private little area of Cyrodiil.

How about you take the time to understand that just because a skill is bugged, that doesn't mean that it can't overperform? and maybe, for your consideration, you should also take the time to behave in a more civil manner than to approach people with such a presumptious and condescending attitude?

BlissfulDeluge · August 2019

BRogueNZ wrote: »

y'all never did learn to not attack, so yes dumb it down some more

Except the problem with it is that in its last iteration, this ability did serve its purpose, leaving players with the option to not attack, attack at the cost of damage to yourself and the opponent, or breaking free.

In its current form, your options are to either play stamina, to use one of the many stamina abilities that help cleanse it, be a Templar, to use ritual and cleanse it, dump a ton of magicka into casting purge, waste a potion on freeing yourself (which wastes a pot cooldown) or stand there and try to wait for it to wear off, while other people run in to cast other CCs on you.

The skill, conceptually, is fine, but when it lets players chain CCs? Yeah, uh, no. That's not good. If it is going to stay in its current form, then it should apply CC immunity for its duration from all other sources of snare, immobilize and stun (which will allow for counterplay). Or, alternatively, a morph of purge should change the ability to only apply the debuff removal to yourself (at a significantly lower cost than the AoE version)

BlissfulDeluge · August 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

OP's @ name seems to apply ...

You seem to be adding nothing of value to this discussion. Perhaps you would like to take the time to inform me where I might be wrong? Because otherwise, your post is just a waste of data.

MartiniDaniels · August 2019

LOL. Let's just ditch all hard counters like wings in U22 just to add hard counter to direct damage in U23.

BlissfulDeluge · August 2019

Xvorg wrote: »

Slot wyrd tree for a free purge, or reactive for extra protection

Those are both heavy sets that which might impair with players' playstyles too much to offset the balance of what is really just an ability that overperforms, in its current. I think it's quite sad that the only classes currently able to cleanse themselves at a relatively low cost are Templars (ironically) and Necromancers.

I think that purging should become available to all classes. You might mention purge or its morphsm, and that's really an ability I think should change to be more useful for effective personal use.

If one of its morphs were to change the ability to make it only affect yourself at a signifcantly lower cost than its AoE version, then it would be a decent counterplay option, but right now? There aren't many options on the table that haven't got enough graces to offset their banes.

BlissfulDeluge · August 2019

Drdeath20 wrote: »

I think it was a decent attempt at making this skill interesting but their are many problems with it.

I agree with you on this, 100%! Conceptually, the skill is interesting, but the problems with it, not applying immunity to other snares, immobilizations and stuns for its duration are just horrendous in practice.

BlissfulDeluge · August 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

LOL. Let's just ditch all hard counters like wings in U22 just to add hard counter to direct damage in U23.

Yeah, it's just silly. x.x Honestly, I would love to see the Alliance War skill lines expanded on to include the class abilities most popular in Cyrodiil for all to use (reflects, stealth, snare/stun immunity etc), and for class abilities to be verboten in PvP. That would make balancing PvP and PvE much easier, too, even though the developers seem rather hung up on the idea that both can live together in harmony.

They can't.