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Update 23 Combat Q&A

  • technohic
    technohic
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    What's with the DOT boost?

    We see you balancing abilities like healing springs and vigor. Where do you see the overall balance behind these as it relates to group size and classes?
  • Haink
    Haink
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    Kilcosu wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why has all feedback regarding werewolf been ignored through the entire PTS cycle for Update 23? A lot of feedback has been made on why these changes (especially the self-heal and pack-leader) are too much. And why aren't any adjustments being made? (speaking from a PvP and PvE perspective)

    I would like to second these specific questions regarding werewolf and update 23. some clarifications are needed with as much silence we have been given

    Yes, need answers. thank you.
  • Argelorn
    Argelorn
    Given the changes to effectiveness to healing and partially damage, mainly the burst possibility of springs as an aoe heal:
    Do you plan to adjust present content that was designed for current healing and/or damage to make it still viable with new vision or is it deliberate difficulty increase ?

    Additionally, what is the reasoning for adding cast time for ultimates ? The game seemed to move away from cast time abilities but this change shows quite the opposite direction, is there any specific circumstance that this was aimed to eliminate ? Are you not feeling it might slow down the fights and make ultimates too inconvenient to use in many situations ?

    And lastly, what is your vision of class skills versus non-class skills ? Especially within similarly working skills eg. silver leesh vs dk chain. In new combat design, it seems like class abilities are same or weaker version of the skills available for everyone from weapons or guilds, which gives some concern to the significant differences between classes.
    Edited by Argelorn on August 8, 2019 11:46PM
  • PhoenixGrey
    PhoenixGrey
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    When are you planning to fix ?
    - shield bug
    - streak bug
    - undo bug
  • code65536
    code65536
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    1. Explain your rationale for substantially reducing the damage of AoE ground DoTs. These abilities require positioning and are sensitive to movement. It was understood in the past that this was the tradeoff that justified their damage levels. Many people already don't use ground AoE abilities in PvP because enemies just move out of them. Given that context, what made you think that a damage nerf was appropriate?
    2. Why are utility skills like Soul Trap doing more damage than actual damage skills? Why are generic damage skills outperforming class skills? Do your power budgets account for such considerations like the intended purpose of a skills?
    3. Explain your rationale for the healing changes. Why was the power nerfed? Why was utility hampered? What was the goal and vision behind all this?
    4. The reason for support roles to exist is for them to do the things that are impractical for the DDs to do. It is impractical for any DD to reliably survive boss damage in any vet DLC content (and sometimes even in normal DLC content). Can you say the same about the healer role?
    5. Why is this happening at the end of PTS week 5 and not during PTS week 4?
    6. Why is this happening at the end of PTS week 5 and not during PTS week 3?
    7. Why is this happening at the end of PTS week 5 and not during PTS week 2?
    8. Why is this happening at the end of PTS week 5 and not during PTS week 1?
    Edited by code65536 on August 9, 2019 12:45AM
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  • FrankonPC
    FrankonPC
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    What was the reasoning behind the substantial nerf to resolving vigor in the last week of the PTS? With the increase to overall dot damage, as well as adding new damage over time effects available to all classes in the game(soul splitting trap), reducing the effectiveness and duration of resolving is a huge nerf in pvp.

    I was looking at my medium armor stamcro build and if I hit myself with my own tooltip soul splitting trap, I wouldn't be able to recover if there were 3 of them on me. I basically would have to keep 100% uptime on vigor, which isn't realistic in order to somewhat maintain it.

    These new dots are undodgeable and in an outnumbered situation you are going to take a lot of them from multiple players. The first few weeks of changes brought a lot of promise for medium armor viability, and it was then completely scrapped by the last week with no explanation as to the reasoning.

    With the overall buff to dots, the change to harness etc the increased healing was welcome across the board for all classes. If this stays as is the tank meta will live on in stam builds, because they will have to.
  • Gilvoth
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    do you have plans to look into the undo ultimate?
    it is not working properly.
  • Skoomah
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    Can you please address the frequency and magnitude of changes to the game? How do you choose what to change given the community’s preferences for how certain things work?

    Do you consider fun factor when making changes?

    Why are majority of changes just nerfs to things? Rarely do players feel more powerful.
  • DUTCH_REAPER
    DUTCH_REAPER
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    Is your long term goal to end animation canceling?

    With regards to combat in cyrodil, are you revamping the cheat identify engine to work better?

    With all the data you are able to pull on players in game on their characters why have you not addressed those players who take almost no damage yet continue to be almost unkillable and yet they do massive damage?

    Is anyone looking at fixing the bugged sets where you stack the bonus?

  • Darkmage1337
    Darkmage1337
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    With regards to Battlegrounds, are any plans to disable Necromancer's Goliath mode while holding the relic or chaos ball?

    Sorcerers can't use bolt escape, Nightblades can't use invisibility, and vampires can't use mist form while holding the relic or ball.
    Necromancers shouldn't be able to use Goliath form while carrying the relic flag or chaos ball, they become near-invincible and the time-to-kill is way too long for how small and short-distance the gamemode objectives and maps are.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    ESO Platform/Region: PC/NA. ESO ID: @Darkmage1337
    GM of Absolute Virtue. Co-GM of Absolute Vice. 8-time Former Emperor, out of 13 characters. 3 Templars, 3 Sorcerers, 2 Nightblades, 2 Dragonknights, 1 Warden. 1 Necromancer, and 1 Arcanist. The Ebonheart Pact: The Dark-Mage (Former Emperor), The Undying Nightshade, The Moonlit-Knight, The Killionaire (Former Emperor), Swims-Among-Slaughterfish (Former Emperor), The Undead Mage, and The Dark-Warlock. The Aldmeri Dominion: The Dawn-Bringer (Former Empress), The Ironwood Kid (Former Emperor), and The Storm-Sword. The Daggerfall Covenant: The Storm-Shield (Former Empress), The Savage-Beast, and The Burning-Crusader CP: 1,800.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    I could go on with several problems. But the most important question i can ask, is why is arctic blast (the arctic wind morph) not specifically being looked at as soon as possible? It is our biggest pain point and it is of the upmost urgency that it should be fixed to be unblockable and to deal damage. this skill does not need a heal. And especially a health scaling one at that. We have green balance dedicated to healing. We lack damage. Now, Shock Clench is no longer a stun. We are in a severe crisis.

    While budding seeds having a HoT is really nice, it was never a pain point. We feel severely neglected. You guys should be fixing problems.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on August 9, 2019 11:11AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • virtus753
    virtus753
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    1) What are the dev team’s feelings on the class-agnostic stam meta resulting from the U23 changes? For example, a recent build for maximizing dps for stamplar involves only 7 active skills, with the remaining 5 “dead” skills slotted only for passives; there are only 2 class skills slotted, and both are part of the “dead” 5. This is not unique to templars, as you can see from previous comments. The new meta seems to fly directly in the face of the dev team’s stated aspiration to have no dead skills. How soon will this be addressed? Even three months is a long time to feel like we are without class identity. Stam sorcs in particular have felt like this for much longer.

    2) In addition to the other Maelstrom weapons, are there plans to review the Thunderous Volley set adjustment from this PTS? There was no acknowledgment in the accompanying patch notes that the changes have significantly reduced the overall damage of the bow per se, independently of the Volley skill itself, which makes it seem like a math error rather than an intentional reduction. It’s impossible to tell what the dev team intended without a comment.

    3) Speaking of numbers, what is the “mark” for Vigor that was “missed” in the earlier PTS patches and resulted in it being reduced to not much more effective than Live while being harder to sustain? How does the dev team envision Vigor being effective in PvP against the significant increase in DOT damage, especially after the removal of the 2-handed HOT? Echoing the concerns of others here, the increase to Vigor followed by its immediate reversal makes me curious as to the goals of the dev team. What exactly are they aiming for here?

    It’s very hard to have a meaningful discussion about what’s “working” when we can only guess at the intentions behind these and other concerning changes. I hope this Q&A will fill in some of these blanks.
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    [*] Have DDs use defensive ultimates.

    What exactly is the goal with this?I imagine alot of dps are going to be very sour, as they don't exactly sign up for dps for with this in mind.
  • lassitershawn
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    TBois wrote: »
    With the audit yall made sure many skills used by stamina and magicka builds scaled off of the appropriate cp for those builds. Sorcerer's critical surge and dark deal being magicka costing skills their heals scale off of cp like elfborn, but these skills are primarily used by stamina sorcerer. Do yall intend to keep this as is or is there a plan to make these skills scale off of something like precise strikes?

    Do yall intend to have more skills scale off of your character's max stats (not only scaling damage but also changing damage type) in the future, similar to the new soul trap?

    Critical surge is used just as much by magsorcs because the heal is stronger, and it will now be used even moreso because of the power surge changes.
    William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
    Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
    Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
    Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade

    IR x8, GH x5, TTT x2
  • lassitershawn
    lassitershawn
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    code65536 wrote: »
    1. Explain your rationale for substantially reducing the damage of AoE ground DoTs. These abilities require positioning and are sensitive to movement. It was understood in the past that this was the tradeoff that justified their damage levels. Many people already don't use ground AoE abilities in PvP because enemies just move out of them. Given that context, what made you think that a damage nerf was appropriate?
    2. Why are utility skills like Soul Trap doing more damage than actual damage skills? Why are generic damage skills outperforming class skills? Do your power budgets account for such considerations like the intended purpose of a skills?
    3. Explain your rationale for the healing changes. Why was the power nerfed? Why was utility hampered? What was the goal and vision behind all this?
    4. The reason for support roles to exist is for them to do the things that are impractical for the DDs to do. It is impractical for any DD to reliably survive boss damage in any vet DLC content (and sometimes even in normal DLC content). Can you say the same about the healer role?
    5. Why is this happening at the end of PTS week 5 and not during PTS week 4?
    6. Why is this happening at the end of PTS week 5 and not during PTS week 3?
    7. Why is this happening at the end of PTS week 5 and not during PTS week 2?
    8. Why is this happening at the end of PTS week 5 and not during PTS week 1?

    All of this x10, esp #1.
    William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
    Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
    Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
    Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade

    IR x8, GH x5, TTT x2
  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
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    Will some trial and dungeon mechanics to make up for the changes in healing? I mean a few hard modes in various trials, and places that had healing reduction, like Cloudrest? I ask this due the possibility that healers will be forced to wear extremely niche builds for these places, narrowing their role down more.
    For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    When are you going to separate BG queues into SOLO and FULL PREMADE? This should have been a thing from DAY ONE.
  • MrGarlic
    MrGarlic
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    400ms ping.

    Is this the new normal for those of us in the Oceanic region?

    It used to be 220ms. It's gradually getting worse every few months. At this rate it will probably be 500ms by the end of the year.
    'Sharp Arrows'Mr.Garlic
    Hidden by darkness, a shadow in the night,A sped arrow dissecting the gloom,Finding it's target, such delight.
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    What's up with stamsorc especially in PvE ? It's kinda sad that stamsorc's identity is a lack of it. There were some notes from class rep meetings about adding more stamsorc oriented ultimate to the class. What happened to those ideas ?
    Edited by Juhasow on August 9, 2019 3:50AM
  • lassitershawn
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    1. Nerf to ground AoEs is somewhat ridiculous imo, they take more skill with positioning compared to ST dots.
    2. Making MULTIPLE extremely powerful universal skills is going to cause less class skills to be slotted and reduce class identity across the board.
    3. MAJOR VULNERABILITY is broken af and no mention has been made of this. There needs to be a cooldown before this can be reapplied, 7-8 stamina necromancers is a ridiculous meta.
    4. As a magicka sorcerer main, I'm disappointed in the direction they're taking the class, which is essentially into oblivion for PvE. I'm fine with pets being nerfed, I prefer a caster sorcerer playstyle (even though matriarch alone is basically the same gameplay as caster sorc), but sorc needs something to compensate. LL/Flood was nerfed and arguably one of the more important reasons to bring sorc DD is for the extra synergies, but now it isn't even good DPS to have on bar. Atronach has nowhere near the group utility of flesh atro, the synergy should be able to be obtained by 2 people and apply berserk to the sorc. LL should be unnerfed and the synergy should be obtainable by 3 people. Sorc has always had somewhat of an identity as an important synergy provider and this helps keep it in a good place without even substantial DPS buffs.
    5. Side note, stamina sorc is actually in a good place for PvE for once, if stamina necromancer was so *** broken it would definitely be used. Still needs a bit more identity.
    William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
    Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
    Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
    Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade

    IR x8, GH x5, TTT x2
  • kylermacdb16_ESO
    kylermacdb16_ESO
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    Are Necromancers considered 'completed' for the most part? I was expecting to see more robust changes in the recent updates on PTS but the notes for the class were fairly unexciting. As is, I'd say 1/3 of their class skills will remain unused by the playerbase as those skills (Ie, Grave Grasp, Bitter Harvest, most of the tethers...) either do too little, too weak or too cumbersome to use. Also, summoned creature AI still needs help; Spirit Healer should not be trying to target an ally 500 ft away, resulting in it just floating doing nothing, when I am damaged, nor should Blastbones become a pet for an enemy player, in that it just follows them around not doing its job (exploding).
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Will arena weapons i.e. VMA, VDSA get back 1 piece bonus?
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on August 9, 2019 5:01AM
  • The_Saint
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    I want to know if theres a bigger picture and where you want to go with your combat? What is you target for combat in 1 year for example? which playstyle you want to see in pve?

    a 10 dot rota is realy hard to play...

    Buffing single target dots over ground aoe for single target dps was right but yes the 10 dot rota is not really casual friendly
    Edited by The_Saint on August 9, 2019 8:21AM
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  • colossalvoids
    colossalvoids
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    When can we see some positive updates for stamplar and stamsorc specs?
    Most buffs (if any) was through universal things like la weaving boost or changes in meta (vma dual wield) but community actually expect some direct changes and improvements made toward their usefulness in endgame play, for example Power of the Light is easily can be keeped up by a magplar healer and the damage component is bugged so stamplar getting shafted, still quite clunky use of jabs etc. it's all well known issues.

    Cast times on ultimates. Lots of people are drawn to the game and staying here because it's combat system being fast and responsive. this change rings a bell if the direction is changed and rises some problems of use on some of them especially that was already nerfed before like incapacitating strike.
    What should we expect in the future or you can admit it's not being the best decision?

    What about medium armor pvp?
    At first pts we saw buffs to shuffle, vigor compensating for momentum etc. but now it's all gone yet again plus buffs to st dots making survivability even more complicated forcing heavy armor still to have any enjoyment.
    Why decision to make medium more appealing was scrapped?
  • Agalloch
    Agalloch
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    Why do you break the game?

    Why do you want to raise the gap between 5 % of the player base and the rest?

    Eso is a wonderful game but why do you want to ruin it? The combat changes on the PTS make everything obsolete..the game loose its identity..no more class diversity, no more healers..no more vet trials ( especially the newer ones).

    Why so many nerfs?

    Thanks.
    Edited by Agalloch on August 9, 2019 7:04AM
  • AllPlayAndNoWork
    AllPlayAndNoWork
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    Why gut NB fear and give it to the Fighters Guild ?.....Its giving Mag NB (more than Stam NB) less and dissolving its class identity.

    Why cant you take the plunge and separate PvP and PvE ? It will make for better combat balance and in the long run benefit everyone (Devs and players).
    Edited by AllPlayAndNoWork on August 9, 2019 6:55AM
  • keto3000
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    There was a very similar discussion & debate regarding the overall direction of character building of the game.

    Update 23 reminds me of the philosophical discussion/debate re the need for archetypes & class skills in early/mid 2014 when the game still had Vet ranks (pre CP system).


    Class/archetype skill-based VS. "No class" character defined solely by the player's choice of Weapon, Armor, Guild & World skills allowing players to build any character & define it by chosen skill lines and further refinement through a constellation based class refinement (I.e. a CP tree for "sorcerer"mage" specialization, etc)
    (There was also mention of this by Nick Konckle in the first Reddit AMA as well.)

    FYI----Throwback threads:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/115543/why-eso-should-not-have-classes-and-how-classes-ruin-the-game

    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/class-system-is-a-good-thing/?page=5#comment-195487
    Edited by keto3000 on August 9, 2019 7:45AM
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    ― Louise L. Hay
  • LiquidPony
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    I have a million questions.

    But, most importantly: how do you even come up with this stuff? Is there no internal testing?

    How do you go from v5.1.0 where Vigor and Ring of Preservation are so strong that people are envisioning an end to healers altogether, to v5.1.5 where Vigor is weaker than it is on Live and Ring of Preservation has its duration reduced by 75%?

    How do you create a PvE meta where every stam build looks the same, and every mag build looks the same, and magicka spammables are just DOA with crazy 8 DoT rotations? Was this intentional? Did your PvE testers try this stuff out and think it seemed fun or interesting?

    Why do you misrepresent the math behind damage calculations in these patches? You killed Endless Hail and the Maelstrom bow but worded the patch as if that were not the case. I recall the same misleading notes back when Major Force was nerfed. Is this intentional or are these mistakes that just never get fixed?

    Please tell me there's some broader plan in action here that will make Scalebreaker seem like a logical step in the right direction in retrospect. I mean, I'm gonna keep playing like I always have, but this just seems like an altogether silly patch from a combat perspective. Yet again, new content is basically an afterthought in yet another patch full of sweeping combat changes.
  • Markdechene1
    Markdechene1
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    Any plans to fix the stam necro? Siphon is bugged in a number of way, blastbones blacks out and cannot be cast to name just a couple of things. All quick cast abilities are a nightmare to get off

  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    1. Why does Eclipse no longer proc on initial apply of DoTs, direct damage proc sets, and spammable channeled attacks like Flurry? Isnt it going against vision of this skill and powerlevel of ability and overall goal of change.
    Skill suppose to punish for active aggression and applying damage over time is activation of aggressive act but in no logner proc bubble, so skills that dont made as hybrid of Direct Ddamage+DoT(like Sun Fire) dont proc it despite pure DoTs were audited to have zero delay upon cast of DoT, i.e. it will hit just like DD+DoT ability but for some reason not gona count as act of aggression (mechanically it can proc different sets and scale off different CP but as act of aggression there is no difference of being hit by Sun Fire or being hit by Soul Trap - both will apply damage on initial hit no matter if direct damage attack or first tick of dot that tick with 0 delay upon applying on enemy). Also as result it dont proc on channeled attacks like Flurry, which are exact same direct attacks but with different mechanic of apply, and it was addressed in Corrosive Armor and Onslaught ultimates that say taht such attacks are to "smash your opponent to bits". Change to Living Dark suppose to make skill more reliable but changing it to proc on far lesser amount of attacks reduced reliability and thus goal of making it bit more better not achieved. Also set not proc on direct damage proc sets: As tanking tool in PvE skill also is not reliable because monsters special attacks cant proc it for some reason even by being direct damage attacks: ^^Leading to situation that as tanking tool it even worse than skill with ~40% less tooltip capabilities.

    2. Is it intended that Unstable Core damage doesnt proc if target immune to CC effect of sphere?
    Isn't change supposed to help to make it more easier to proc on enemy by removing restriction of being a hard CC effect? With current mechanic it pointless to apply bubble on CC-immune enemy because it wont activate explosion as target will be immune to hard CC effect, same goes for rest soft CC effects. It means that while skill can be no longer CC-Break, it still operates as even worse CC effect as now morph can be countered not jsut by CC Break by also by skills that grant immunities to soft CCs because if enemy CC break - 3rd stage of scale part of explosion wont proc; or if enemy apply snare/root immunity skills in PvP - 1st and 2nd part of scaling wont proc also: Dev commnt says that "We also wanted the ability to be used in both PvE and PvP" but with current mechanic of not procing on CC immune enemies, i.e. elite monsters and not proc on their special attacks skill became even worse for PvE.
    Old Unstble Core was able to deal damage to all kind of monsters because its magnetic bomb explosion but now agaisnt elite monsters skill not work at all coz their immnuity to all sort of CCs that prevent also an explosions: Also jsut like Living Dark it not trigger by special attacks so it proc chance decreased by alot.

    So this change didn't made skill more reliably in PvE because it simply not proc, nor in PvP coz it still act like pseudo-CC effect nor cant stop enemy from aggression coz not proc against DoT activations.
    Edited by Cinbri on August 9, 2019 7:53AM
This discussion has been closed.