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How does one become a DEV or a GM?

  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    @SirAndy @starkerealm @Saucy_Jack You three have my vote.
  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    Dev = Developer = the people programming the game.

    A Computer Science degree seems like a good first step.

    Been working as a software engineer for over 10 years and didn't even finish high school. Not saying education isn't important, but if you're good at what you do, some companies don't care.
  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    therift wrote: »
    "The suits" is part of gamer fantasy lore that somewhere in the studio, there is someone preventing the developers from doing what a player thinks should be done. "The investors" are also part of gamer fantasy lore; these are the secret illuminati who either choke off development funds or are blissfully unaware of the havoc wrought by "the suits".
    Gamers have entire pantheon of various deities of benevolence and malevolence. It's rather amusing.

    As a former game developer, i can assure you that "The suits" are very much a real thing ...
    dry.gif

    1. Project and Delivery manager sit with client and write up a 30 page URD
    2. Project manager hands me the URD and asks me to estimate each task
    3. I add several hours on top of what I think each task will take so I have more time to play mario kart in the games room
    4. But I notice some tasks that I don't think the client would actually like, and explain to the project manager how I think it would be better
    5. He says no, do it to spec, even though my way would shave days off the estimation
    6. Finally get the job done, client says they hate it and want it to work the way I told the project manager

    It's an endless cycle. For anyone wanting to get into programming, just don't. Do it as a hobby for sure, but it will eventually kill your enthusiasm for coding once it becomes a job.
  • SantieClaws
    SantieClaws
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    Top tips:

    Express your deep, poetic thoughts about yarn at length and on a regular basis yes. In every thread. Even the ones about nerfs. Posts about fish are also important.

    Deep breath before every post - does this one wish to say this and is there a better way this one could be saying it? If in doubt delete.

    Even when very upset do not stamp the paws and waggle the whiskers - there are constructive ways to disagree, for example suggesting an alternative.

    Help new kittens here and in Tamriel - fishing tips are always welcome.

    Spread the spirit of Fishmas all year round!

    Know things. Khajiit knows some things. She is not sure what they are but she is sure she knows them yes. Just don't ask about them.

    Have a catchy forum sign off.

    Be yourself!

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws
    Shunrr's Skooma Oasis - The Movie. A housing video like no other ...
    Find it here - https://youtube.com/user/wenxue2222

    Clan Claws - now recruiting khajiit and like minded others for parties, fishing and other khajiit stuff. Contact this one for an invite.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    https://www.imperialtradingcompany.eu/
  • pod88kk
    pod88kk
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    I thought it was more like from 0:34 onwards 😂😂

    https://youtu.be/nOWR2LPZ-TI
  • Danikat
    Danikat
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    therift wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    There are two requirements:

    1. Grow a thick skin that reflects criticism from whiny, know-it-all players.
    2. Believe that a suit in an office somewhere who has never played ESO knows more about the game than a player who routinely spends 40+ hours a week playing it.

    I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time imagining Rich in a suit. He'd be miserable. When I was there, the closest to someone being in a suit was my old leather sport coat.

    "The suits" is part of gamer fantasy lore that somewhere in the studio, there is someone preventing the developers from doing what a player thinks should be done. "The investors" are also part of gamer fantasy lore; these are the secret illuminati who either choke off development funds or are blissfully unaware of the havoc wrought by "the suits".

    Gamers have entire pantheon of various deities of benevolence and malevolence. It's rather amusing.

    No, I understand the myth. Thing is, at least personally, "the devs," aren't some anonymous figures out there. I've met most of the team leads. I've had beers with Rich. So I'm not saying, "no, they're not like that," I'm saying the mental image of Rich in a suit is amusing to me.

    The suit part of that could be metaphorical.

    I've had my current job for almost 4 years and I've seen my head of department wearing a jacket twice. I've never seen anyone here, including the chief executive wearing a tie and my head of department has said he's not even sure he owns one and won't ever wear one again if he can possibly avoid it.

    Doesn't change the fact that they're sticklers for policy and "the way we do things around here" and don't like people like me constantly challenging that and trying to come up with new ways to do things.

    (Although I'd also say there's probably a heavy dose of the Dunning-Kruger effect going on in these discussions. You don't know what you don't know, so if you've never worked in games development it's easy to imagine that simply playing a game means you know more about it than the people in charge of making it and keeping the company that makes it running.)
    PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
  • redlink1979
    redlink1979
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    Never seen a GM on PS4 on all my years playing this. They're a myth. lol
    "Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"
    • Sons of the Night Mother [PS5][EU] 2165 CP
    • Daggerfall's Mightiest [PS5][NA] 1910 CP
    • SweetTrolls [PC][EU] 1950 CP
    • Bacon Rats [PC][NA] 1850 CP
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Danikat wrote: »
    therift wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    There are two requirements:

    1. Grow a thick skin that reflects criticism from whiny, know-it-all players.
    2. Believe that a suit in an office somewhere who has never played ESO knows more about the game than a player who routinely spends 40+ hours a week playing it.

    I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time imagining Rich in a suit. He'd be miserable. When I was there, the closest to someone being in a suit was my old leather sport coat.

    "The suits" is part of gamer fantasy lore that somewhere in the studio, there is someone preventing the developers from doing what a player thinks should be done. "The investors" are also part of gamer fantasy lore; these are the secret illuminati who either choke off development funds or are blissfully unaware of the havoc wrought by "the suits".

    Gamers have entire pantheon of various deities of benevolence and malevolence. It's rather amusing.

    No, I understand the myth. Thing is, at least personally, "the devs," aren't some anonymous figures out there. I've met most of the team leads. I've had beers with Rich. So I'm not saying, "no, they're not like that," I'm saying the mental image of Rich in a suit is amusing to me.

    The suit part of that could be metaphorical.

    More that I'd say it's the product of cynicism. Not, unjustified cynicism, mind you. Many publishers have earned their reputation, and even Bethesda Softworks is currently doing its level best to obliterate any customer good will with stunts like Blades. Though, this also breeds into someone trying to posture by presenting raw cynicism as true insight. It's not.
    Danikat wrote: »
    I've had my current job for almost 4 years and I've seen my head of department wearing a jacket twice. I've never seen anyone here, including the chief executive wearing a tie and my head of department has said he's not even sure he owns one and won't ever wear one again if he can possibly avoid it.

    Yeah, Rich's comment this afternoon was, "I own one."
    Danikat wrote: »
    Doesn't change the fact that they're sticklers for policy and "the way we do things around here" and don't like people like me constantly challenging that and trying to come up with new ways to do things.

    Except, it also doesn't mesh with what was actually being said.
    LonePirate wrote: »
    Believe that a suit in an office somewhere who has never played ESO knows more about the game than a player who routinely spends 40+ hours a week playing it.

    So, remember that comment about cynicism? This is pure cynicism, fueled by ego. I mean, your Dunning-Kreuger comment is on point, because anyone dumb enough to think they know more about the game than the people who developed it is certainly on the toad licking end of that spectrum.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    therift wrote: »
    "The suits" is part of gamer fantasy lore that somewhere in the studio, there is someone preventing the developers from doing what a player thinks should be done. "The investors" are also part of gamer fantasy lore; these are the secret illuminati who either choke off development funds or are blissfully unaware of the havoc wrought by "the suits".
    Gamers have entire pantheon of various deities of benevolence and malevolence. It's rather amusing.

    As a former game developer, i can assure you that "The suits" are very much a real thing ...
    dry.gif

    The "suits" are real in any business, big or small, in any branch. Whenever a company generates a profit, a decision has to be made as to what to do with it (save, pay dividends, raise salaries, reinvest, etc. ) and if reinvesting is chosen, where (infrastructure, processes, equipment, research, etc).

    Everyone at every level, from shareholder to customers, employees, executives, etc. has their own idea as to what to do, either for their own interest, or in the interest of the company. Some people are designated to make those decisions - and how and whether they take customer and employee feedback and request into consideration is up to them and to each company management structure.

    The problem is, the decisions of the actual decision-makers are tested against reality. Everyone else's preference will not be tested. As a result, most people think they know better, and that some guys somewhere wearing suits are preventing the business from succeeding, or the product from improving.

    They may be right - or they may be wrong.
    Regarding ZOS and ESO, it's hard to tell. The game is an artistic jewel and a commercial smash hit. But the performance issues are real.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Top tips:

    You forgot the part where you bribe Gina's daughter with a ball of yarn.

    (Ooops sorry I thought everyone knew... ;-) )
  • Danikat
    Danikat
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    Danikat wrote: »
    therift wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    There are two requirements:

    1. Grow a thick skin that reflects criticism from whiny, know-it-all players.
    2. Believe that a suit in an office somewhere who has never played ESO knows more about the game than a player who routinely spends 40+ hours a week playing it.

    I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time imagining Rich in a suit. He'd be miserable. When I was there, the closest to someone being in a suit was my old leather sport coat.

    "The suits" is part of gamer fantasy lore that somewhere in the studio, there is someone preventing the developers from doing what a player thinks should be done. "The investors" are also part of gamer fantasy lore; these are the secret illuminati who either choke off development funds or are blissfully unaware of the havoc wrought by "the suits".

    Gamers have entire pantheon of various deities of benevolence and malevolence. It's rather amusing.

    No, I understand the myth. Thing is, at least personally, "the devs," aren't some anonymous figures out there. I've met most of the team leads. I've had beers with Rich. So I'm not saying, "no, they're not like that," I'm saying the mental image of Rich in a suit is amusing to me.

    The suit part of that could be metaphorical.

    More that I'd say it's the product of cynicism. Not, unjustified cynicism, mind you. Many publishers have earned their reputation, and even Bethesda Softworks is currently doing its level best to obliterate any customer good will with stunts like Blades. Though, this also breeds into someone trying to posture by presenting raw cynicism as true insight. It's not.
    Danikat wrote: »
    I've had my current job for almost 4 years and I've seen my head of department wearing a jacket twice. I've never seen anyone here, including the chief executive wearing a tie and my head of department has said he's not even sure he owns one and won't ever wear one again if he can possibly avoid it.

    Yeah, Rich's comment this afternoon was, "I own one."
    Danikat wrote: »
    Doesn't change the fact that they're sticklers for policy and "the way we do things around here" and don't like people like me constantly challenging that and trying to come up with new ways to do things.

    Except, it also doesn't mesh with what was actually being said.
    LonePirate wrote: »
    Believe that a suit in an office somewhere who has never played ESO knows more about the game than a player who routinely spends 40+ hours a week playing it.

    So, remember that comment about cynicism? This is pure cynicism, fueled by ego. I mean, your Dunning-Kreuger comment is on point, because anyone dumb enough to think they know more about the game than the people who developed it is certainly on the toad licking end of that spectrum.

    Re: the bit I put in bold - in case it's unclear I was talking about my boss, not anyone at ZOS. He's a really nice, laid back guy and I can't imagine him in a suit either, but that doesn't mean he's going to say yes to every wild idea I come up with. Which is probably for the best, but quite frustrating when I'm convinced I've just figured out how to solve an on-going problem and make everything work better and get told it's against company policy.

    I can't comment on how those discussions go at ZOS as I have no idea.
    Edited by Danikat on July 31, 2019 1:36PM
    PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
  • wenchmore420b14_ESO
    wenchmore420b14_ESO
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    Never seen a GM on PS4 on all my years playing this. They're a myth. lol

    In early days of PC launch, before consoles, there were GM's in game Have seen 2 myself. But that was 2014.. Lol..

    As far as the "Suit"controversy, and being a myth. Well, suits are real. They are the Dev's bosses. They are everyones boss.
    For Zenimax Media, those suits are ..........
    Board of Directors
    Robert A. Altman
    Chairman & CEO
    Jerry Bruckheimer
    Jerry Bruckheimer Films
    Ernest Del
    Senior Advisor
    Michael Dominguez
    Managing Director, Providence Equity Partners Inc.
    Leslie Moonves
    Chairman, President & CEO, CBS Corporation
    Cal Ripken, Jr.
    President & CEO, Ripken Baseball, Inc.
    Harry E. Sloan
    Chairman and CEO, Global Eagle Holdings, LLC
    Robert S. Trump
    President, Trump Management, Inc.

    Management
    Robert A. Altman
    Chairman & CEO
    James L. Leder
    President & COO
    Cindy L. Tallent
    EVP & CFO
    J. Griffin Lesher
    EVP Legal & Secretary
    Denise Kidd
    SVP Finance & Controller
    Vlatko Andonov
    SVP Strategic Planning
    Pete Hines
    SVP Global Marketing and Communications
    Ron Seger
    SVP Global Sales
    Todd Vaughn
    SVP Product Development

    These are the suits that have ultimate control, just as in any big corporation.
    And let us remember.....
    “When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
    _Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)


    Huzzah!
    Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
    NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
    GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
    Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
    "Not All Who Wander are Lost"
    #MOREHOUSINGSLOTS
    “When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”

    _Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)
  • Girl_Number8
    Girl_Number8
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    You can win a golden guar ticket in the crown crates, allowing you to go on a tour of the studios with 4 other lucky winners. At the end of the tour, one of you will be given the job as a dev.... :*

    Oompa loompa doompety doo~!!
    Edited by Girl_Number8 on July 31, 2019 3:44PM
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    You can win a golden guar ticket in the crown crates, allowing you to go on a tour of the studios with 4 other lucky winners. At the end of the tour, one of you will be given the job as a dev.... :*

    Oompa loompa doompety doo~!!

    As great as that chocolate factory experience may be (turning into a giant blueberry aside) I'd much prefer not to have to support crown crates in order to see where the everlasting gobstoppers are made.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Girl_Number8
    Girl_Number8
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    Marginis wrote: »
    You can win a golden guar ticket in the crown crates, allowing you to go on a tour of the studios with 4 other lucky winners. At the end of the tour, one of you will be given the job as a dev.... :*

    Oompa loompa doompety doo~!!

    As great as that chocolate factory experience may be (turning into a giant blueberry aside) I'd much prefer not to have to support crown crates in order to see where the everlasting gobstoppers are made.

    You're thinking of a different factory :)
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Marginis wrote: »
    You can win a golden guar ticket in the crown crates, allowing you to go on a tour of the studios with 4 other lucky winners. At the end of the tour, one of you will be given the job as a dev.... :*

    Oompa loompa doompety doo~!!

    As great as that chocolate factory experience may be (turning into a giant blueberry aside) I'd much prefer not to have to support crown crates in order to see where the everlasting gobstoppers are made.

    You're thinking of a different factory :)

    As great as that nerf factory experience may be (turning into a giant nirnroot aside) I'd much prefer not to have to support chocolate bars in order to see where the crown store exclusives are made.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Androconium
    Androconium
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    "move projects forward despite obstacles"

    Obstacles, such as:
    • players
    • lack of staff
    • greedy stockholders
    • reality
    Edited by Androconium on July 31, 2019 10:56PM
  • GarnetFire17
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    I imagine there are are emails, and resumes, and applications involved.
    Edited by GarnetFire17 on August 1, 2019 1:14AM
  • Androconium
    Androconium
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    <snip> Posts about fish are also important. <snip>

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws


    If you handle the grass
    a fish has been laid on,
    your hand will smell like a fish
    this what it is like
    to associate with evil friends

    abhiniskramana sutra
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    People are selected at random from all corners of the earth. They are sent to an island to live in a villa full of cameras for several weeks. Last one alive gets to be a developer.

    And the ones that don't communicate or come up with off the wall ideas that make no sense are selected as finalists. And bonus points for having a knack for making snarky jokes about player concerns.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • WildWilbur
    WildWilbur
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    People are selected at random from all corners of the earth. They are sent to an island to live in a villa full of cameras for several weeks. Last one alive gets to be a developer.

    Actually no, if that was true we would have a way better pvp...
    "Call me a killjoy, but I think that because this is not to my taste, no one else should be able to enjoy it." Marge Simpson
  • unclesheosnephew
    unclesheosnephew
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    dev or gm- only other games have them
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    Top tips:

    Express your deep, poetic thoughts about yarn at length and on a regular basis yes. In every thread. Even the ones about nerfs. Posts about fish are also important.

    Deep breath before every post - does this one wish to say this and is there a better way this one could be saying it? If in doubt delete.

    Even when very upset do not stamp the paws and waggle the whiskers - there are constructive ways to disagree, for example suggesting an alternative.

    Help new kittens here and in Tamriel - fishing tips are always welcome.

    Spread the spirit of Fishmas all year round!

    Know things. Khajiit knows some things. She is not sure what they are but she is sure she knows them yes. Just don't ask about them.

    Have a catchy forum sign off.

    Be yourself!

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws

    You are a Tamriel gem.
  • xenowarrior92eb17_ESO
    xenowarrior92eb17_ESO
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    It is a employee thing.
    If you have experience in programming and coding video games, ZoS/BGS have a online application available.

    There are community titles like "Community Ambassador" and "Class Representative" here in forums, but it is not a paid job and consists of folks who have played basically since alpha or beta.

    As far as "GMs", I haven't seen one in game since 2014... Lol...

    Huzzah!




    I play since 1st beta and im not a commie ambassador :(
  • xenowarrior92eb17_ESO
    xenowarrior92eb17_ESO
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    Llidoryc wrote: »
    How does one become a DEV or a GM?

    Apply for a job at ZOS ...
    smile.gif

    "Abandon your soul thee who enter this realm!"
  • Ydrisselle
    Ydrisselle
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    Top tips:

    You forgot the part where you bribe Gina's daughter with a ball of yarn.

    (Ooops sorry I thought everyone knew... ;-) )

    We already mentioned the bribery :tongue:
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