best non trial set with Mothers Sorrow?

Llidoryc · July 2019

IYO what is the best non trial gear set to go with Mothers Sorrow?

WrathOfInnos · July 2019

Julianos if you don’t have a vMA Staff. If you have a Maelstrom Inferno, then Burning Spellweave.

Edit: Spell Strategist can also be good if you’re mainly focused on a single target and good at light attack weaving.

Llidoryc · July 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Julianos if you don’t have a vMA Staff. If you do, then Burning Spellweave.

Edit: Spell Strategist can also be good if you’re mainly focused on a single target and good at light attack weaving.

are these set combos good for taking on both pvp and pve?

Llidoryc · July 2019

Llidoryc wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Julianos if you don’t have a vMA Staff. If you do, then Burning Spellweave.

Edit: Spell Strategist can also be good if you’re mainly focused on a single target and good at light attack weaving.

are these set combos good for taking on both pvp and pve?

Or vMA?

Dagoth_Rac · July 2019

Llidoryc wrote: »

Llidoryc wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Julianos if you don’t have a vMA Staff. If you do, then Burning Spellweave.

Edit: Spell Strategist can also be good if you’re mainly focused on a single target and good at light attack weaving.

are these set combos good for taking on both pvp and pve?

Or vMA?

What class are you? If Sorc, pet build with Necropotence, Mothers Sorrow, and Iceheart monster set is excellent for getting a first clear of VMA. But pets are getting nerfed hard in next update, so you probably only have a couple of weeks left of that being a viable VMA build.

Llidoryc · July 2019

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Llidoryc wrote: »

Llidoryc wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Julianos if you don’t have a vMA Staff. If you do, then Burning Spellweave.

Edit: Spell Strategist can also be good if you’re mainly focused on a single target and good at light attack weaving.

are these set combos good for taking on both pvp and pve?

Or vMA?

What class are you? If Sorc, pet build with Necropotence, Mothers Sorrow, and Iceheart monster set is excellent for getting a first clear of VMA. But pets are getting nerfed hard in next update, so you probably only have a couple of weeks left of that being a viable VMA build.

I'm a Dunmer Magblade.

jaws343 · July 2019

Burning Spellweave is solid in both PVP and PVE. The gear traits will hurt though if you plan on jumping between the two and want to be optimized for both.

BeefyMrTips · July 2019

I’d go BSW or Crafty Alfiq

ATreeGnome · July 2019

Definitely BSW for general purpose use, spell strat if you don't need much AoE damage. If you don't want to farm CoA or buy spell strat, Julianos is still really good.

Nevasca · July 2019

Llidoryc wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Llidoryc wrote: »

Llidoryc wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Julianos if you don’t have a vMA Staff. If you do, then Burning Spellweave.

Edit: Spell Strategist can also be good if you’re mainly focused on a single target and good at light attack weaving.

are these set combos good for taking on both pvp and pve?

Or vMA?

What class are you? If Sorc, pet build with Necropotence, Mothers Sorrow, and Iceheart monster set is excellent for getting a first clear of VMA. But pets are getting nerfed hard in next update, so you probably only have a couple of weeks left of that being a viable VMA build.

I'm a Dunmer Magblade.

Magblade can proc Necro with shade, so it's also worth farming. I'd go with Julianos for now and then farm your bis sets.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2019

Dont over think it, Julianos or BSW. Both will work well. If you need to front bar one of them (i would suggest frontbarring MS), then you want BSW. For PVP, I wouldnt use MS personally as too many people stack impen. But in PVE, MS is Best in Slot.

MrBrownstone · July 2019

PvE is crit meta and PvP is anti-crit meta so you're not gonna have fun if you insist on making only one build for both. Just make two different builds and switch accordingly, it's not hard.

jlb1705 · July 2019

So, I've been running lightning on my Magplar, but have been working on gathering the pieces necessary to switch to an inferno build with BSW for PVE. I just recently got a Maelstrom inferno staff, I've had the BSW inferno staff for a couple months, and weirdly, just need one more BSW body piece in Divines to have enough gear to switch to running it.

I'm wondering, about how to set up my bars with my skills and these two staves. Go ahead and assume that I have Inner Light double-barred, with the Destro Ult on the front bar and Crescent Sweeps on my back bar. What should the remainder of my front bar and back bar setups be?

I know Alcast has a build for this exact gear combo on his site, and I don't doubt that it works, but I want to understand the why and how so I can adapt it for my needs without defeating the entire purpose of this gear combo. For instance, with his build I see he has the Maelstrom staff back barred and the rotation he proposes has a minimal number of light attacks while on that bar. It seems like this would not really take advantage of the Maelstrom staff's damage bonus, because most of the light attacks occur with the BSW staff. Am I missing something?

What is a good setup that will make the most of the Maelstrom inferno staff will still getting max. uptime on the BSW proc?

Faulgor · July 2019

This might seem off-topic, but can anyone explain why nobody's using Scathing Mage, especially with MS?

WrathOfInnos · July 2019

jlb1705 wrote: »

So, I've been running lightning on my Magplar, but have been working on gathering the pieces necessary to switch to an inferno build with BSW for PVE. I just recently got a Maelstrom inferno staff, I've had the BSW inferno staff for a couple months, and weirdly, just need one more BSW body piece in Divines to have enough gear to switch to running it.

I'm wondering, about how to set up my bars with my skills and these two staves. Go ahead and assume that I have Inner Light double-barred, with the Destro Ult on the front bar and Crescent Sweeps on my back bar. What should the remainder of my front bar and back bar setups be?

I know Alcast has a build for this exact gear combo on his site, and I don't doubt that it works, but I want to understand the why and how so I can adapt it for my needs without defeating the entire purpose of this gear combo. For instance, with his build I see he has the Maelstrom staff back barred and the rotation he proposes has a minimal number of light attacks while on that bar. It seems like this would not really take advantage of the Maelstrom staff's damage bonus, because most of the light attacks occur with the BSW staff. Am I missing something?

What is a good setup that will make the most of the Maelstrom inferno staff will still getting max. uptime on the BSW proc?

@jlb1705 The Maelstrom effect works on either bar, as long as you cast Wall from the bar with the vMA Staff, and continues to buff Light Attacks for the duration of the Wall. So basically front bar Light Attacks get the Maelstrom effect and have a chance to proc Burning Spellweave, while also benefitting from the BSW 4pc bonus.

For skills, you need Wall (Blockade morph this patch, Unstable for Scalebreaker) on your back bar. I like to put Blazing Spear with it, since they are both 8s ground DoTs. I finish out the back bar with Channeled Focus and Solar Barrage (also 8s, easy rotation). You can do either Inner Light or Channeled Acceleration as the 5th slot, and any ultimate you want (Aedric passive for 10% Crit dmg is already covered by Blazing).

Front bar is Elemental Weapon, Vamp Bane or Reflective (Fire skill goes on front bar to proc BSW), Radiant Destruction, Radiant Ward (mostly for Aedric passive, but not a terrible shield), Inner Light, and Shooting Star (another flame damage skill for BSW, that also brings decent passives from Mages guild).

This is going to change a lot with the next patch though, I’m not sure which skills will be filling a Templar’s bars. Probably want to add Entropy in there, and maybe Scalding Rune and/or Flame Reach to help with BSW uptime. Soul Trap is also looking good, but will have to see if we have room for it.

WrathOfInnos · July 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

This might seem off-topic, but can anyone explain why nobody's using Scathing Mage, especially with MS?

@Faulgor I’ve tried Scathing this patch, it’s not bad, but the uptimes only look good if you use Force Pulse. I typically prefer Ele Weapon, so not ideal. It’s pretty similar to BSW overall, and might pull ahead slightly on a high crit build with a lightning blockade.

Faulgor · July 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

This might seem off-topic, but can anyone explain why nobody's using Scathing Mage, especially with MS?

@Faulgor I’ve tried Scathing this patch, it’s not bad, but the uptimes only look good if you use Force Pulse. I typically prefer Ele Weapon, so not ideal. It’s pretty similar to BSW overall, and might pull ahead slightly on a high crit build with a lightning blockade.

Yeah, I specifically looked into it again because Force Pulse gets buffed next patch, although it doesn't seem spammables will be that important. Thanks for your insights.

SoLooney · July 2019

Spell strat and burning spell weave are probably the 2 best non trial sets to pair with sorrow

Julianos and crafty alfiq arent bad choice either, necropotence if you use some kind of pet

Siroria is extremely difficult to maintain the 20 stacks in certain fights so that's kind of up to you

You should really farm perfected false god. It is a god send for mag dps

WuffyCerulei · July 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

This might seem off-topic, but can anyone explain why nobody's using Scathing Mage, especially with MS?

Scathing honestly depends on what class you’re on. You’d have to do a lot of direct damage to proc Scathing well, so a sorc, warden, or necro would be best with Scathing. Not sure how DK, templar, or NB would do.

malistorr · July 2019

Gear is kind of dependent on how you want to play. For anyone that heavy attacks a lot like me, Infallible Mage is the #1 set that I consider to be mandatory. What you pair with it is the only question. I've been using Undaunted Infiltrator like the Easy Mode Sorc guy for max heavy attacks, but if you don't heavy attack and use other skils, maybe other sets are better. I just need the Maelstrom lightning staff and I imagine my heavy attacks inside my wall of elements will be rediculous. If you're not a sorc and don't use the skill to give you 20% more spell damage, or have that some other way, I imagine Rattlecage is a good set. Look at how much spell damage it gives! If you're talking light armor and want max magicka which also equals more powerful attacks like spell damage, Crafty Alfiq? I'm currently experimenting on golding my set out and transmuting it to max dps and seeing if my heavy attacks will be even more powerful than with running Undaunted Infiltrator and IM. I'll run IM and CA and compare results. There's so many freakin' possible set combinations that you'll really have to test out each one you're considering based on how you play to see which one will lead to the most damage for you if that's what you're concerned with. There are add-ons where you can finish a battle and see your DPS for just that fight. It's probably more useful than using a dummy IMO. And asking around on the forum, everyone will give an opinion of what they think is "best". But damage changes based on so many things like CP allocation, mundus choices etc. So there is no "BIS" or "best". There are simply too many variables and possible combinations. So test and test some more and you'll be able to improve things by small margins here and there. Or you can simply find a combination that works for you and then just focus on having fun playing the game instead of worrying about another .05% DPS increase. I don't like complex rotations that make playing the game more a task than fun, so using just a couple skills to provide some buffs and heavy attacking, with a character that's 100% built for max heavy attacks, works for me. It allows me to finish any content in the game with ease and actually still have fun playing. On most 4-player dungeons I'm the one running out front killing almost everything myself even though I'm the no-pet mag sorc. that everyone seems to think sucks for some reason.

malistorr · July 2019

The options below are admittedly for mag sorc. more than anything. For other classes I'm sure there are better options and they may not even be light armor like these are (mostly) Infallble Mage is mandatory IMO.
I'm also curious to test out replacing Undaunted Infiltrator with:
1. Queen's Elegance
2. Spinner's Garments
3. Would try Treasure Hunter but have Major Prophecy through a sorc. skill so it would be a waste
4. Would try Rattlecage but have 20% spell damage increase through sorc. skill
5. Would try Wise Mage but have minor vulnerability from IM
6. Julianos
8. War Maiden if using Magic Damage abilities
9. Spider Cultist Cowl if using staff abilities
10. Robes of Destruction Mastery
11. Would try Perfected False God's Devotion but already have minor slayer from IM set
12. Netchs' Touch if lightning focused mag sorc
13. Necropotence (if using pets)
14. Mad Tinkerer probably not best but just for entertainment value
15. Twice-Born Star with carefully chosen mundus stones (probably the 2 that give more spell crit chance and damage) (Also put a lot of points into the blue CP for increasing crit. damage)
Too many choices and your choice should probably be based around class you play and skills you use.

John_Falstaff · July 2019

@malistorr , not sure why would you need Infallible, healers often run this set, and generally in organized PvE you will have Minor Vulnerability on target. Slimecraw gives Minor Berserk, not vulnerability, and typically berserk is already given by Combat Prayer. War Maiden is spectacularly bad, and Destruction Mastery is eclipsed by Crafty Alfiq. Generally, rather strange collection of sets there in your list.

malistorr · July 2019

I use IM because, like my 1st post starts off saying, I primarily heavy attack. The huge bonus to heavy attack in the set's 5th piece bonus can't be beat by really anything other than a maelstrom staff inside of a wall of elements. On top of that, which by itself is pretty much worth it for me for how I play, the set also gives minor slayer, which in my trial groups, which are PUGs, I can't reliably know that it will be up. And much of the content I do is either solo stuff or 4-man dungeons (undaunted quests to get daily transmute crystals). Again, solo it's not up at all unless by me and PUG 4-man dungeons I'd be shocked if it's up 50% of the time.
Oh yeah, it also gives a spell damage bonus. And a crit. chance bonus, and another crit. chance bonus, and mnior vulnerability which again, because I'm in PUG groups and solo content is great to have. For a mag sorc (non-pet) like me. Who heavy attacks almost primarily and plays the type of content I do, this set is far and away the best. Nothing else comes close.

Many people play differently than me, and most aren't non-pet mag. sorc. So I realize my comments are for a minority. And my setup definitely isn't original. It's based loosely around the Easy Mode Sorc. guy who's inspired around 200,000 people to try similar builds, many to great success.

PS - I fixed the comment about the Slimecraw bonus. I got the 2 confused for a sec.

Also, for what it's worth, I plan to do more testing when I get bored. I want to try an all crit. setup with an MS set and Twice-Born star with both crit. chance and crit. damage mundus and the blue CP for increased crit. damage mostly maxed out. Then I may try a straight dps setup using maybe Crafty Alfiq with Twice-Born Star and Spell Damage and Max Mag mundus. Maybe even a combination of 1 crit set like ms with CA or TBS. Bottom line is I don't take people's word for what is "BIS" or "the best" online because many people are just flat out wrong, or they haven't fully tested every possible combination. Just obtaining all the sets and golding and transmuting everything out would take many months. I'll test things out if and when I have time and decide what's BIS for my play style, which I know is much different than 95% of the ESO community.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2019

Destruction Mastery is eclipsed by Crafty Alfiq.

You got math to back that up? Only thing crafty has going for it is craftable and you don't need a destro staff with it. Otherwise the spell damage/crit bonuses are worth more then max magic.

jlb1705 · July 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@jlb1705 The Maelstrom effect works on either bar, as long as you cast Wall from the bar with the vMA Staff, and continues to buff Light Attacks for the duration of the Wall. So basically front bar Light Attacks get the Maelstrom effect and have a chance to proc Burning Spellweave, while also benefitting from the BSW 4pc bonus.

For skills, you need Wall (Blockade morph this patch, Unstable for Scalebreaker) on your back bar. I like to put Blazing Spear with it, since they are both 8s ground DoTs. I finish out the back bar with Channeled Focus and Solar Barrage (also 8s, easy rotation). You can do either Inner Light or Channeled Acceleration as the 5th slot, and any ultimate you want (Aedric passive for 10% Crit dmg is already covered by Blazing).

Front bar is Elemental Weapon, Vamp Bane or Reflective (Fire skill goes on front bar to proc BSW), Radiant Destruction, Radiant Ward (mostly for Aedric passive, but not a terrible shield), Inner Light, and Shooting Star (another flame damage skill for BSW, that also brings decent passives from Mages guild).

This is going to change a lot with the next patch though, I’m not sure which skills will be filling a Templar’s bars. Probably want to add Entropy in there, and maybe Scalding Rune and/or Flame Reach to help with BSW uptime. Soul Trap is also looking good, but will have to see if we have room for it.

Thanks, everything makes sense now knowing that the effect from the Maelstrom Staff carries over. I'm already running it with both the staff and blockade on the back bar with my lightning/AOE build, so it's good to know to continue to set it up that way when I change over to an inferno staff build.

In fact, I'm pretty much already running both bars just as you described, except I'm using Degeneration for cheap Major Sorcery since I don't want to use expensive pots in 4-person content. I know I need to get Vampire's Bane/Reflective Light on there, but it sounds like I'll have to keep Degeneration too since it's being buffed. Might have to add Soul Trap as well. I'm a bit lost for what it's going to look like. I don't have the PTS since I'm on console and the UESP Build Editor hasn't been updated yet.

Also thanks for reminding me about Shooting Star. I forgot that it does flame damage. The Destro Ult is better when you're running lightning, but it makes all the sense in the world to change that over for a BSW inferno build.

John_Falstaff · July 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Destruction Mastery is eclipsed by Crafty Alfiq.

You got math to back that up? Only thing crafty has going for it is craftable and you don't need a destro staff with it. Otherwise the spell damage/crit bonuses are worth more then max magic.

Crafty Alfiq is an overland set, not crafted. And no, SD isn't universally worth more than max magicka, because unlike with stamina, magicka receives smaller multiplier on SD (only minor/major prophecy, so around 1.3) than on max magicka (will be around 1.5 in OP's case, give or take), so 2pc and 4pc bonuses are roughly equivalent and 5pc will be higher (2.4k vs. 2.56k max magicka). Spell crit is harder to compare, but will be in the same ballpark as damage increase goes. As a result, 2pc identical, 3pc roughly equivalent, on 4pc DM will be better by slightly less than 10 spell power, on 5pc worse than Alfiq by slightly more than 15 spell power. And considering that one is arena set with requirements attached and the other one is overland, there's precious little reason for running DM instead of Alfiq - hence eclipsed.

malistorr · July 2019

Crafty gives the equivalent damage increase of 556 spell damage. This is constant and permanent, doesn't need to proc. with something, and isn't applicable to only 1 damage type like some sets spell damage bonus. The only other set I think that comes close besides Necropotence (if you're using a pet) would be Rattlecage I believe and most people won't use that since they get Major Sorcery from somewhere else. They'd be better off using Julianos since both Rattlecage and Julianos give over 350 spell damage (if you include the equivalent damage from 1096 max mag on Julianos. At least you still get about 8% crit. chance increase with Julianos also.