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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Necro vs Justice
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Xerikten✭✭✭✭if you are a necro complaining the fault is yours
if you are doing a dark brotherhood quest the fault is yours.
Yes. Using abilities comparable to the sorcerer pets in taboo-ness in an area away from civilization should absolutely mean that I should be punished by guards halfway around the world because all NPCs share a telepathic link.
Now that I think about it, summoning daedra should be a criminal offense, too, along with casting any spell or ability that could potentially harm a random NPC in any quest area. That would make for super fun and immersive gameplay!
"Did you just kill all those evil monsters and save the day? Congratulations, hero, here's your 5k bounty! Watch out, the guards will attack you on sight, btw..."
This system needs to be reworked. Not defended.
the tool tip says npcs as well as guards. you don't need to use most nor any of these outlawed abilities to kill stuff. one needs to be aware of his surroundings. it would be the same if you killed a npc for a dark brotherhood quest and was seen. there is no difference. it is your fault period.1 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Back during SWG Pre-CU days, Jedi who used lightsabers around other players were automatically put on the bounty hunter terminals, where players who grab a mission and hunt a Jedi. So as jedi, you could use any other weapon and not get put on the terminals...OR you could go out in the middle of nowhere, and whip your saber out in peace.
This is sort of similar, but WAAAY easier to manage. I believe you just don't use any spells in town that would be considered a criminal act. The moment you're about to press an ability just tell yourself "waaait wait....let me check this spelll really quick...yep it's a criminal act spells, I had better hold off on clicking this until I am a few klicks away......alright I am far enough away now, let me go ahead and click this cool ability!"
This didn't happen in town. It was out in the wilderness. There just happen to be random NPCs wandering around the quest areas in old zones.
So that NPC got past your guard somehow then yeah? Yeah you gotta always be checking out your surroundings man, you never know who is around watching you raise the dead.
And then that NPC pulled out their cell phone, called the World News Network to report my status as a Necromancer with a complete description of my character, the WNN then disseminated that info to EVERY guard in Tamriel via Facebook, AND all in the half-second before they sprinted up to me and punched me in the face and called me a Thief repeatedly.
Golly, it all makes so much sense, now.
Those who get caught, deserve to get caught.
It's a broken mechanic and it makes zero sense. You're not nearly as clever as you think you are.
But, hey, it's ok for people to randomly drop a wall of fire in town or summon daedric monsters in front of guards. Totally makes sense.
Agreed. The criminal skills pull a bounty in dungeons and delves for *** sake, they really half assed this one.1 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭if you are a necro complaining the fault is yours
if you are doing a dark brotherhood quest the fault is yours.
Yes. Using abilities comparable to the sorcerer pets in taboo-ness in an area away from civilization should absolutely mean that I should be punished by guards halfway around the world because all NPCs share a telepathic link.
Now that I think about it, summoning daedra should be a criminal offense, too, along with casting any spell or ability that could potentially harm a random NPC in any quest area. That would make for super fun and immersive gameplay!
"Did you just kill all those evil monsters and save the day? Congratulations, hero, here's your 5k bounty! Watch out, the guards will attack you on sight, btw..."
This system needs to be reworked. Not defended.
the tool tip says npcs as well as guards. you don't need to use most nor any of these outlawed abilities to kill stuff. one needs to be aware of his surroundings. it would be the same if you killed a npc for a dark brotherhood quest and was seen. there is no difference. it is your fault period.
Omg, my eyes just rolled so hard I got a headache.
1. It's not the same because the game gives you an indication of whether or not witnesses are around with the stealth indicator in the middle of the screen.
2. I didn't pay for a new class just to use the generic abilities and never use the cool stuff because some idiot on the dev team was like "hey guys, you know what would make this more immersive...". That's just stupid.1 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I find it interesting. Very interesting, that these threads continue. I have yet to obtain a single bounty while levelingn necro, and working on my 3rd necro now using and keeping mender, archer and Blastbones up as much as possible, havent had random bounty aggro from any npc while leveling in DC, EP and AD zones.
While having Essential tremors, being deaf and rheumatoid arthritis all rolled up, so without me meds, a lot of abilities may get pressed, as well with meds abilities might not get pressed in a timely manner. So i have to stay more aware of the areas, and surroundings, so as these threads appear, i wonder if it is just impatient rushing, bad timing, or bug or a combination of everything.
I wonder if it's just you making up a bunch of BS as a way to try to invalidate my thread because you want to make yourself feel superior as a gamer?
Kinda hostile there, especially for no reason. But since you're gonna go that route, sure, lets see if your claim is legitimate or not. Prove it, since your making that claim, you have to provide the evidence of said claims. I highly suspect that you are not randomly getting bounties fo just plain old questing and fighting legitimate targets, while I am more inclined to the believe others, prior to your claim, and any after. That said, you, nope. Until otherwise, your claim here, is hogwash.
"Oh, look at me everyone. I have all these disabilities and I still manage to play the game better than you. You must just be bad. Nothing to see here folks, move along."1 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »ZOS did specifically state that this very issue was part of the challenge inherent in the class, and it was intended for people who wanted that challenge.
Is it a "challenge"...? Really? It seems more like an unnecessary limitation on the number of useful builds I have at my disposal.1 -
shadowwraith666✭✭✭✭No actually, because summoning and conjuring, including Daedric, is actually a valid School of magick in TES.
Conjuration also includes summoning of the undead which was completely legal in TES after morrowind, also there is friendly npc that uses necromancy during a quest and the player also uses necromancy during the main quest (castle of the worm)Edited by shadowwraith666 on June 1, 2019 1:22PM- Vicktor Bloodtail - L42 Argonian Magblade, Werewolf - EP
- Xarxes - L31 Dunmer Sorc, Vampire - EP
- Lichtspear - L21 Argonian Temp - EP
- Rajka Fireclaw - L21 Khajit DK - AD
PS4 EU
Vicente Valtiere, Dark Brotherhood, OblivionSpill some blood for me dear brother0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭emilyhyoyeon wrote: »
If the other games are any indication, Daedra worship is relatively common, even if not talked about. I am actually surprised that ZOS chose not to dig into the Daedra worship aspect in ESO.
So, yeah, I expect that a lot of the people we meet are closet Daedra lovers. 0 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I find it interesting. Very interesting, that these threads continue. I have yet to obtain a single bounty while levelingn necro, and working on my 3rd necro now using and keeping mender, archer and Blastbones up as much as possible, havent had random bounty aggro from any npc while leveling in DC, EP and AD zones.
While having Essential tremors, being deaf and rheumatoid arthritis all rolled up, so without me meds, a lot of abilities may get pressed, as well with meds abilities might not get pressed in a timely manner. So i have to stay more aware of the areas, and surroundings, so as these threads appear, i wonder if it is just impatient rushing, bad timing, or bug or a combination of everything.
I wonder if it's just you making up a bunch of BS as a way to try to invalidate my thread because you want to make yourself feel superior as a gamer?
Kinda hostile there, especially for no reason. But since you're gonna go that route, sure, lets see if your claim is legitimate or not. Prove it, since your making that claim, you have to provide the evidence of said claims. I highly suspect that you are not randomly getting bounties fo just plain old questing and fighting legitimate targets, while I am more inclined to the believe others, prior to your claim, and any after. That said, you, nope. Until otherwise, your claim here, is hogwash.
"Oh, look at me everyone. I have all these disabilities and I still manage to play the game better than you. You must just be bad. Nothing to see here folks, move along."
Still, such hostility. Meh, anyways soon to be locked. Clear your only phishing, seen in all your responses.0 -
Kalgert✭✭✭✭✭
"Multiple skills" Yeah, about four or five of them.Ok. I said it previously and I'll see it again: when the criminal acts start racking up while questing, I'll start getting annoyed.
Well, here I am with a 2k bounty I earned just for doing a quest in stone falls, attacking a legitimate target.
Zos, you might want to go run an audit on the old zones. I'm getting sick of being attacked by random friendly NPCs while fighting the monsters that are trying to kill them. It kind of defeats the purpose of saving the peasants when I have turn right around and kill the peasants because they won't stop punching me and calling me a thief because I saved their lives...
I understand you gripe, but why do you people dont get it ? Certain skills are illegal. Why do you insist on using them ???
Look, we do have Sarin Gas and other horrible skills on earth. It is still illegal to use them. Globally !! Why isnt this reaching your minds ??
This is a common argument used to defend this system. The problem with this argument is that there are multiple necromancer skills considered to be criminal acts, but are required for any build. If I can't use the spirit mender to heal, I will die. It may be hard to understand as someone who is super into immersion and defending this system, but this is simply not fair.
"If I don't use Spirit Mender, I will die" Scythe says hello. Alternatively, there are other healing skills that can heal you.
"This is simply not fair" Look, I might be interested in rolling a Necromancer as well, and you know what I will do? If I am in towns or somewhere else that will have non-essential NPCs, I won't be using illegal act abilities. Probably because I know what might happen if I do...0 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
What does your point on waiting for consoles to get Elsweyr even have to do with anything? I mentioned how long I've been leveling my Necro as a means of showing how long I've been using him and his 'criminal act' skills and have yet to get any bounties while out questing and doing general stuff in the world. I don't know what subtle dig you thought I was trying to make, but it had nothing to do with 'lulz PC players got stuff 2 weeks before console'. Also Vampires aren't 'very well liked' either, in fact in TES lore Vamps and WWs are feared and reviled throughout Tamriel and generally considered monsters to be KOS. ZOS has already stated that Vamps and WWs are probably gonna be added to the Justice System at some point.Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Good for you considering that console users STILL have to wait till June 4th to actually acquire the Necro class, myself included
Edit: as long as vampirism isn’t included with this justice system, then it’s alright to me cause yeah, necromancers aren’t very liked at all
You don't really need a build while leveling. The places you'll be using builds (Cyro/BG/IC for PvP, trials, arenas, and dungeons for PvE) won't get you any bounties. It isn't going to limit any builds, it just limits what you can do while around towns and all. Like I've said, if people are getting bounties from the odd NPC while out in the world, that's likely a bug. There are a heck ton of NPCs in this game, so it isn't entirely unreasonable that certain ones who shouldn't be given bounties might have been missed when ZOS did their audit for Necro. What would help would be if people would post where they're getting these bounties from, because then we can see if it's mostly concentrated in a few spots or scattered all across the map. Not only that, but posting where people are getting bounties will narrow down spots in the game that ZOS needs to double check for missed NPCs.MasterSpatula wrote: »ZOS did specifically state that this very issue was part of the challenge inherent in the class, and it was intended for people who wanted that challenge.
Is it a "challenge"...? Really? It seems more like an unnecessary limitation on the number of useful builds I have at my disposal.
I think it would depend on what you mean by summoning the Undead. Do you mean that in the terms of Necromancy, or in the terms of certain races like Dunmer who will summon spirits of their ancestors when they need guidance and the like? Because a lot of people consider the latter to be Necromancy while the Dunmer themselves don't, and tbh it is kind of a gray area since even if you're not summoning the spirit to cause harm, you are still fiddling with a sentient race's animus to an extent. I would say it being 'completely legal' is very very very situational and depends on the individuals involved, either directly or indirectly.shadowwraith666 wrote: »No actually, because summoning and conjuring, including Daedric, is actually a valid School of magick in TES.
Conjuration also includes summoning of the undead which was completely legal in TES after morrowind, also there is friendly npc that uses necromancy during a quest and the player also uses necromancy during the main quest (castle of the worm)
Also you don't have to be evil to use Necromancy, so people who are good using it can exist and all. It's still frowned upon and illegal in most of Tamriel, though. Just like a citizen murdering a known *** would still get arrested because a citizen killing someone, even if that person deserved it, is still illegal. You might do something with the best intention in mind, but against the law is against the law regardless of intent. As far as point in the base game's MQ, I'm not sure where that fits in everything, really. I'm not sure creating a Flesh Atro is as easy as the game makes it seem; I think the player character doesn't directly make it as much as they provide the energy and stuff for it to be made. I'm inclined to believe Abnur had more of a hand in it and just used you as a focus to do it himself, as he needed said focus because he was so far away in the tower. That's my headcanon at least, it's entirely possible you do do the whole thing on your own aside from Abnur's guidance.
There are actually quite a few aspects of Daedric worship in ESO. Heck, the base game is focused around Daedric worship to an extent, what with the Worm Cult and everything. There's quests revolving around followers of other Daedric Princes, a good portion of Summerset's MQ deals with cultists (not all of them evil), and so on. ZOS didn't overlook or underplay the idea at all.lordrichter wrote: »If the other games are any indication, Daedra worship is relatively common, even if not talked about. I am actually surprised that ZOS chose not to dig into the Daedra worship aspect in ESO.
So, yeah, I expect that a lot of the people we meet are closet Daedra lovers.Character List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!0 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
What does your point on waiting for consoles to get Elsweyr even have to do with anything? I mentioned how long I've been leveling my Necro as a means of showing how long I've been using him and his 'criminal act' skills and have yet to get any bounties while out questing and doing general stuff in the world. I don't know what subtle dig you thought I was trying to make, but it had nothing to do with 'lulz PC players got stuff 2 weeks before console'. Also Vampires aren't 'very well liked' either, in fact in TES lore Vamps and WWs are feared and reviled throughout Tamriel and generally considered monsters to be KOS. ZOS has already stated that Vamps and WWs are probably gonna be added to the Justice System at some point.Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Good for you considering that console users STILL have to wait till June 4th to actually acquire the Necro class, myself included
Edit: as long as vampirism isn’t included with this justice system, then it’s alright to me cause yeah, necromancers aren’t very liked at all
You don't really need a build while leveling. The places you'll be using builds (Cyro/BG/IC for PvP, trials, arenas, and dungeons for PvE) won't get you any bounties. It isn't going to limit any builds, it just limits what you can do while around towns and all. Like I've said, if people are getting bounties from the odd NPC while out in the world, that's likely a bug. There are a heck ton of NPCs in this game, so it isn't entirely unreasonable that certain ones who shouldn't be given bounties might have been missed when ZOS did their audit for Necro. What would help would be if people would post where they're getting these bounties from, because then we can see if it's mostly concentrated in a few spots or scattered all across the map. Not only that, but posting where people are getting bounties will narrow down spots in the game that ZOS needs to double check for missed NPCs.MasterSpatula wrote: »ZOS did specifically state that this very issue was part of the challenge inherent in the class, and it was intended for people who wanted that challenge.
Is it a "challenge"...? Really? It seems more like an unnecessary limitation on the number of useful builds I have at my disposal.
I think it would depend on what you mean by summoning the Undead. Do you mean that in the terms of Necromancy, or in the terms of certain races like Dunmer who will summon spirits of their ancestors when they need guidance and the like? Because a lot of people consider the latter to be Necromancy while the Dunmer themselves don't, and tbh it is kind of a gray area since even if you're not summoning the spirit to cause harm, you are still fiddling with a sentient race's animus to an extent. I would say it being 'completely legal' is very very very situational and depends on the individuals involved, either directly or indirectly.shadowwraith666 wrote: »No actually, because summoning and conjuring, including Daedric, is actually a valid School of magick in TES.
Conjuration also includes summoning of the undead which was completely legal in TES after morrowind, also there is friendly npc that uses necromancy during a quest and the player also uses necromancy during the main quest (castle of the worm)
Also you don't have to be evil to use Necromancy, so people who are good using it can exist and all. It's still frowned upon and illegal in most of Tamriel, though. Just like a citizen murdering a known *** would still get arrested because a citizen killing someone, even if that person deserved it, is still illegal. You might do something with the best intention in mind, but against the law is against the law regardless of intent. As far as point in the base game's MQ, I'm not sure where that fits in everything, really. I'm not sure creating a Flesh Atro is as easy as the game makes it seem; I think the player character doesn't directly make it as much as they provide the energy and stuff for it to be made. I'm inclined to believe Abnur had more of a hand in it and just used you as a focus to do it himself, as he needed said focus because he was so far away in the tower. That's my headcanon at least, it's entirely possible you do do the whole thing on your own aside from Abnur's guidance.
There are actually quite a few aspects of Daedric worship in ESO. Heck, the base game is focused around Daedric worship to an extent, what with the Worm Cult and everything. There's quests revolving around followers of other Daedric Princes, a good portion of Summerset's MQ deals with cultists (not all of them evil), and so on. ZOS didn't overlook or underplay the idea at all.lordrichter wrote: »If the other games are any indication, Daedra worship is relatively common, even if not talked about. I am actually surprised that ZOS chose not to dig into the Daedra worship aspect in ESO.
So, yeah, I expect that a lot of the people we meet are closet Daedra lovers.
Not "needing" a build while leveling is not the point. Why bother even spending the time to create these abilities if the only purpose is to punish the players for using them? Not to mention all the problems this highlights with the Justice System. It was obviously not intended to be used this way. This is poorly implemented, poorly thought out, and downright obnoxious.
I reiterate, what is the point to having these skills at all we're just going to be given random bounties for using them? It's dumb.1 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I find it interesting. Very interesting, that these threads continue. I have yet to obtain a single bounty while levelingn necro, and working on my 3rd necro now using and keeping mender, archer and Blastbones up as much as possible, havent had random bounty aggro from any npc while leveling in DC, EP and AD zones.
While having Essential tremors, being deaf and rheumatoid arthritis all rolled up, so without me meds, a lot of abilities may get pressed, as well with meds abilities might not get pressed in a timely manner. So i have to stay more aware of the areas, and surroundings, so as these threads appear, i wonder if it is just impatient rushing, bad timing, or bug or a combination of everything.
I wonder if it's just you making up a bunch of BS as a way to try to invalidate my thread because you want to make yourself feel superior as a gamer?
Kinda hostile there, especially for no reason. But since you're gonna go that route, sure, lets see if your claim is legitimate or not. Prove it, since your making that claim, you have to provide the evidence of said claims. I highly suspect that you are not randomly getting bounties fo just plain old questing and fighting legitimate targets, while I am more inclined to the believe others, prior to your claim, and any after. That said, you, nope. Until otherwise, your claim here, is hogwash.
"Oh, look at me everyone. I have all these disabilities and I still manage to play the game better than you. You must just be bad. Nothing to see here folks, move along."
Still, such hostility. Meh, anyways soon to be locked. Clear your only phishing, seen in all your responses.
I'm pretty sure you're fishing at this point. Shoo.0 -
Jawshoeuh✭✭✭this is simply not fair.[/quote]
Life isn't fair. You are a necromancer. Get over it.0 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭this is simply not fair.
Life isn't fair. You are a necromancer. Get over it.[/quote]
Ugh... Zos takes a play straight out of Blizzard's playbook and this is how you choose to defend it?
"This has been a massively requested class since the game was in beta, so in an effort to make the players shut up about it, we are finally creating the class. But, we didn't think simply adding the class to the game was enough, we decided to ruin our own creation and annoy our customers in the process with a feature that literally no one ever asked for because we want to fix things that aren't broken by breaking them."0 -
Kalgert✭✭✭✭✭
It only annoys stupid people, it seems. I've been playing the class and I am perfectly fine with it, and so seem to be everyone else. If you have a problem with it, then that is a you problem, not a Zenimax Online Softworks problem.Ugh... Zos takes a play straight out of Blizzard's playbook and this is how you choose to defend it?
"This has been a massively requested class since the game was in beta, so in an effort to make the players shut up about it, we are finally creating the class. But, we didn't think simply adding the class to the game was enough, we decided to ruin our own creation and annoy our customers in the process with a feature that literally no one ever asked for because we want to fix things that aren't broken by breaking them."
Also people who complain about merchants giving them nounties: Essentials don't give you bounties.Edited by Kalgert on June 1, 2019 4:27PM0 -
Coggage✭✭✭✭
It only annoys stupid people, it seems. I've been playing the class and I am perfectly fine with it, and so seem to be everyone else. If you have a problem with it, then that is a you problem, not a Zenimax Online Softworks problem.Ugh... Zos takes a play straight out of Blizzard's playbook and this is how you choose to defend it?
"This has been a massively requested class since the game was in beta, so in an effort to make the players shut up about it, we are finally creating the class. But, we didn't think simply adding the class to the game was enough, we decided to ruin our own creation and annoy our customers in the process with a feature that literally no one ever asked for because we want to fix things that aren't broken by breaking them."
Also people who complain about merchants giving them nounties: Essentials don't give you bounties.
I have to say I'm fine with the criminal abilities too. I think it's a bit odd getting a bounty for using class skills when no other class does, but I've never had a bounty yet in 32 levels so it's not a big enough deal for me to fret over.0 -
Llaren_Uvayn✭✭✭Necromancy has always been a crime in Elder Scrolls games. The fact that people have been whining about a necromancy class for years doesn't change that.
Vampirism and lycanthropy should probably be persecuted too, it's weird that NPCs don't care about it.PS4 / EU
Sadryn Hlervu: Warden tank
Llaren Uvayn: Templar healer and faithful Tribunal servant
Ashanabi Addunipu: Ashlander mercinary from the grazelands1 -
Vandellia✭✭✭Okay there are skill you use in game that give you bounties if you get caught if you dont want a bounty dont use the skill i dont see people looting/killing pickpocketing getting bounties (complaining) they know these skills are "wrong" if caught well some necro skills are in that category if you dont want the potential bounty dont hot bar them period..0
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Nulami✭✭✭Llaren_Uvayn wrote: »Necromancy has always been a crime in Elder Scrolls games. The fact that people have been whining about a necromancy class for years doesn't change that.
Vampirism and lycanthropy should probably be persecuted too, it's weird that NPCs don't care about it.
I hope they do go back and add both of those to the Justice system.
I just wish the guards would get fed up with the dueling in cities. Openly fighting in the streets should bring the guards in to stop it.2 -
![[Deleted User]](https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/06301530861bfae62d56b72eef4ac33d.png)
[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenHello everyone,
With the baiting and flaming that was seen going all the way back to the start of this thread, we're going to go ahead and close this thread. Keep in mind that baiting and flaming is no way to defend an opinion, they violate the Forum Rules and only lead to thread derailment.
Thank you for understanding.0
This discussion has been closed.