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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Argonian passive life mender
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twing1_✭✭✭✭1 set bonus to damage = 129
Racial bonus to damage = 2 set bonuses (258)
1 set bonus to healing done = 4% (just bumped up from 2% recently)
Argonian passive to healing = 1.5 set bonuses (6%)
According to ZOS, when they balanced the races, they gave each race ~6.5 set bonuses. This was when set bonuses to healing done were valued at 2%, so argonians life mender passive was given 3 whole set bonuses to healing done. This was balanced within their 6.5 item set bonus guidelines accross all races.
Now, item set bonuses to healing done have been adjusted to 4% while the argonian passive was not. This reduces the value of their 6% healing done to 1.5 item set bonuses, leaving argonian racials 1.5 set bonuses short of the 6.5 set bonuses every other race is valued at. They now need another 1.5 item set bonuses to bring them in line with the other races.
In my opinion, the healing passive should be bumped up to 8% healing done (an increase of 2%, or half of a set bonus) and argonians should be given an additional set bonus in another area (1000 max stam, to throw back to their thief roots in previous games perhaps?) to compensate for the net loss of 1.5 item set bonuses.Edited by twing1_ on May 27, 2019 9:01PM8 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
poison resistand argonians should be given an additional set bonus in another area
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Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
You keep using Isolation like it means anything but you're failing to bring up any sort of argument to back up the claim of Isolation leading me to believe you have no idea wtf you're talking about and are merely spouting nonsense at this point. There is no build, no situation, absolutely 0 moment in which Life Mender will surpass the 258 flat Spell/Weapon Damage of Dunmer/Altmer/Orc in terms of healing on any realistic capacity. As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, periodArgonian forever4 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.Edited by twing1_ on May 27, 2019 3:41AM0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.Argonian forever5 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Being objectively here, Argonians were nerfed because they where "matematically" stronger than other races. By a lot. "On paper" that is.
Now on the other hand "matematically" they are significantly weaker than other racres. By a lot tbh. Because of how healing done / received / taken is calculated.
Youtuber t3hasiagod has done pretty good job calculating it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFMFgIaiSk
So basically in order for 2% healing done to be at least as good as 129 spell dmg set bonus you would have to have at least 5000 spell dmg for that 2% to be at least equaly strong.
Now, some one else on ESO forums made some calculations (dont remember the exact thread) regarding Argonian 6% healing done bonus. It was something like:
You need at least 3000 spell dmg for that 6% healing done to be equally strong as 129 spell dmg bonus.
So now, you should have a good picture on how 6% is compared to spell / weapon dmg bonus other races have. It is almost as if Argonians did not have their passive at all (in 99% cases that is). I am pretty sure if lets say they change something and this passive will stop working / be bugged (but the tooll tip will be unchanged), nobody will notice... It is THAT weak...
Woodelves have simmilar issue - very situational, close to useless passive.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 27, 2019 6:49AM5 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
In other words argonian is no longer the go to race for literally every single build you could think of. Is that a bad thing? I think not.1 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭1 set bonus to damage = 129
Racial bonus to damage = 2 set bonuses (258)
1 set bonus to healing done = 4% (just bumped up from 2% recently)
Argonian passive to healing = 1.5 set bonuses (6%)
According to ZOS, when they balanced the races, they gave each race ~6.5 set bonuses. This was when set bonuses to healing done were valued at 2%, so argonians life meander passive was given 3 whole set bonuses to healing done. This was balanced within their 6.5 item set bonus guidelines accross all races.
Now, item set bonuses to healing done have been adjusted to 4% while the argonian passive was not. This reduces the value of their 6% healing done to 1.5 item set bonuses, leaving argonian racials 1.5 set bonuses short of the 6.5 set bonuses every other race is valued at. They now need another 1.5 item set bonuses to bring them in line with the other races.
In my opinion, the healing passive should be bumped up to 8% healing done (an increase of 2%, or half of a set bonus) and argonians should be given an additional set bonus in another area (1000 max stam, to throw back to their thief roots in previous games perhaps?) to compensate for the net loss of 1.5 item set bonuses.
Also worth noting that healing done/taken are generally the LEAST desirable set bonuses maybe after HP regen.Ragnarock41 wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
In other words argonian is no longer the go to race for literally every single build you could think of. Is that a bad thing? I think not.
Argonians are literally BiS for NO PvE builds rn. Nord and Imperial are generally considered better tanks, even Orcs for their speed and off-DPS potential in some content. Bretons sustain far better on healers. Altmer do more damage with only a bit less sustain and Bretons sustain better by a country mile and are therefore better DPS as well.
Things that could maybe make Argonian more desirable:
Buff to their base passives.
Slightly increased sustain and damage. Maybe tack on 150 mag regen, 100 SD?
New passives that increase their support potential like a small resource restore on healing allies. Give them direct support capabilities as healers while Bretons still make strong support for their much more selfish stats and ability to cast more skills.
Entirely new and unique passives (stronger enchantments maybe would make them more desirable on supports and DPS).
@HatchetHaro Is the expert here.William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x24 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zos recently stated they will not be reviewing racial passives again in the near future.0 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i would change...
-the max magicka passive to be "adds 1000 max magicka or stamina, whichever is higher"
-buff the healing done passive like everyone with any sense in their skull would suggest
-permanent visual effect on any argonian characters created before the buff, "world's best eso player" medal attached to their chest for having stuck with this doomed race as long as we have
-maybe add a weapon/spelldamage buff to the potion passiveskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
In other words argonian is no longer the go to race for literally every single build you could think of. Is that a bad thing? I think not.
There is not a single build that you want to be an Argonian on over other races. Imperials have better sustain and ult uptime and health.
Khajiit have stronger healing, similar sustain and a ton more damage.
Bretons do everything an Argonian does better.
Altmer heal better than Argonians, deal better damage and have that stupid off-resource regeneration that Argonians get in their potion passive.
Argonians need their poison resistance added back and need something done about their healing done passive because it is mathematically under powered according to t3hasiangod's calculations, which seem trustworthy. Depending on what is done exactly, 1k magicka or perhaps a bonus to stamina would be appreciated.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
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Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this1 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos recently stated they will not be reviewing racial passives again in the near future.
When did they say that? I'm not saying they didn't because I know they did. People keep saying "in the near future"... when is the near future over? Like the near future could be a month from now. So because they said that we should hold all of our concerns, feedback until we are in the far future?1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.
But is this also considering the stat difference between Argonian and Altmer/Dunmer?
That same 2070 SD on an Argonian would be 2328 SD for Altmer/Dunmer and would then result in Major Sorcery buffing it up to 2793 instead of 2484. That's a 309 SD point difference on top of the 1k extra magic Altmer/Dunmer have as well that I just can't see Life Mender making up for on its own.Argonian forever1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.
But is this also considering the stat difference between Argonian and Altmer/Dunmer?
That same 2070 SD on an Argonian would be 2328 SD for Altmer/Dunmer and would then result in Major Sorcery buffing it up to 2793 instead of 2484. That's a 309 SD point difference on top of the 1k extra magic Altmer/Dunmer have as well that I just can't see Life Mender making up for on its own.
It is accounting for the additional 258 spell damage, but I failed to account for the extra 1000 magicka. I'll run the numbers momentarily.
When the extra magicka is taken into account as well (comparing the two races against each other as a whole, and not just the life mender/spell damage passives), 3691 total spell damage is required to favor argonian healing done vs altmer. Which is an absurd amount for a healer.
It is important to note that this comparison does not normalize health between the races, which isn't a typical scenario. More often than not, some investment into health is made, which would allow argonians to make up for the extra magicka altmer has.
Edit: equations for reference
1.08*(31000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(30000+10.5*1.2*x)Edited by twing1_ on May 27, 2019 4:44PM1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.
But is this also considering the stat difference between Argonian and Altmer/Dunmer?
That same 2070 SD on an Argonian would be 2328 SD for Altmer/Dunmer and would then result in Major Sorcery buffing it up to 2793 instead of 2484. That's a 309 SD point difference on top of the 1k extra magic Altmer/Dunmer have as well that I just can't see Life Mender making up for on its own.
It is accounting for the additional 258 spell damage, but I failed to account for the extra 1000 magicka. I'll run the numbers momentarily.
When the extra magicka is taken into account as well (comparing the two races against each other as a whole, and not just the life mender/spell damage passives), 3691 total spell damage is required to favor argonian healing done vs altmer. Which is an absurd amount for a healer.
It is important to note that this comparison does not normalize health between the races, which isn't a typical scenario. More often than not, some investment into health is made, which would allow argonians to make up for the extra magicka altmer has.
Edit: equations for reference
1.08*(31000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(30000+10.5*1.2*x)
30k magic on a healer is absurdly low, most have between 32k and 36k, i personally have 36k on my templar argonian and 37k on my front bar as nord warden healer, he uses SPC yet, here is vanaEver, who is a topend healer, with 33k on a breton-
https://youtu.be/c4mrEVPY4Vs?t=418
1683 base spell damage too, with a standard berserker enchant on her powered resto.
same with a warden breton
https://youtu.be/Muj4oHmHOSA?t=350
also in your calculations, you have to remember that along with that 258 spell damage, high elfs get 2k magic and dark elfs get 1825.
Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on May 27, 2019 5:06PM0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.
But is this also considering the stat difference between Argonian and Altmer/Dunmer?
That same 2070 SD on an Argonian would be 2328 SD for Altmer/Dunmer and would then result in Major Sorcery buffing it up to 2793 instead of 2484. That's a 309 SD point difference on top of the 1k extra magic Altmer/Dunmer have as well that I just can't see Life Mender making up for on its own.
It is accounting for the additional 258 spell damage, but I failed to account for the extra 1000 magicka. I'll run the numbers momentarily.
When the extra magicka is taken into account as well (comparing the two races against each other as a whole, and not just the life mender/spell damage passives), 3691 total spell damage is required to favor argonian healing done vs altmer. Which is an absurd amount for a healer.
It is important to note that this comparison does not normalize health between the races, which isn't a typical scenario. More often than not, some investment into health is made, which would allow argonians to make up for the extra magicka altmer has.
Edit: equations for reference
1.08*(31000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(30000+10.5*1.2*x)
30k magic on a healer is absurdly low, most have between 32k and 36k, i personally have 36k on my templar argonian and 37k on my front bar as nord warden healer, he uses SPC yet, here is vanaEver, who is a topend healer, with 33k on a breton-https://youtu.be/c4mrEVPY4Vs?t=418
1683 base spell damage too, with a standard berserker enchant on her powered resto.
same with a warden bretonhttps://youtu.be/Muj4oHmHOSA?t=350
also in your calculations, you have to remember that along with that 258 spell damage, high elfs get 2k magic and dark elfs get 1825.
My calculations were designed with bare minimums in mind, but they do take into account the magicka differential between argonian and high elf.
Increasing the magicka pool to higher values would lower the required amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. Ex/ if we take 35k max mag as a benchmark (with normalized health, assuming the 1000 max health argonians offer can be exactly made up for with magicka in other areas), 6% healing done starts out shining 258 spell damage at 1866 total spell damage.
1.08*(35000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(35000+10.5*1.2*x)0 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.
But is this also considering the stat difference between Argonian and Altmer/Dunmer?
That same 2070 SD on an Argonian would be 2328 SD for Altmer/Dunmer and would then result in Major Sorcery buffing it up to 2793 instead of 2484. That's a 309 SD point difference on top of the 1k extra magic Altmer/Dunmer have as well that I just can't see Life Mender making up for on its own.
It is accounting for the additional 258 spell damage, but I failed to account for the extra 1000 magicka. I'll run the numbers momentarily.
When the extra magicka is taken into account as well (comparing the two races against each other as a whole, and not just the life mender/spell damage passives), 3691 total spell damage is required to favor argonian healing done vs altmer. Which is an absurd amount for a healer.
It is important to note that this comparison does not normalize health between the races, which isn't a typical scenario. More often than not, some investment into health is made, which would allow argonians to make up for the extra magicka altmer has.
Edit: equations for reference
1.08*(31000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(30000+10.5*1.2*x)
30k magic on a healer is absurdly low, most have between 32k and 36k, i personally have 36k on my templar argonian and 37k on my front bar as nord warden healer, he uses SPC yet, here is vanaEver, who is a topend healer, with 33k on a breton-https://youtu.be/c4mrEVPY4Vs?t=418
1683 base spell damage too, with a standard berserker enchant on her powered resto.
same with a warden bretonhttps://youtu.be/Muj4oHmHOSA?t=350
also in your calculations, you have to remember that along with that 258 spell damage, high elfs get 2k magic and dark elfs get 1825.
My calculations were designed with bare minimums in mind, but they do take into account the magicka differential between argonian and high elf.
Increasing the magicka pool to higher values would lower the required amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. Ex/ if we take 35k max mag as a benchmark (with normalized health, assuming the 1000 max health argonians offer can be exactly made up for with magicka in other areas), 6% healing done starts out shining 258 spell damage at 1866 total spell damage.
1.08*(35000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(35000+10.5*1.2*x)
What exactly do you mean by "outshine"? What does that equate to when it's all said and done? A few extra hundred on them heals? Spell damage is used for both damage and healing, healing done is just healing done and repairing structures as far as I know. For such a measly amount. Healing done and healing received was much better. They should have just reduced resourcefulness and left the rest alone.0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.
But is this also considering the stat difference between Argonian and Altmer/Dunmer?
That same 2070 SD on an Argonian would be 2328 SD for Altmer/Dunmer and would then result in Major Sorcery buffing it up to 2793 instead of 2484. That's a 309 SD point difference on top of the 1k extra magic Altmer/Dunmer have as well that I just can't see Life Mender making up for on its own.
It is accounting for the additional 258 spell damage, but I failed to account for the extra 1000 magicka. I'll run the numbers momentarily.
When the extra magicka is taken into account as well (comparing the two races against each other as a whole, and not just the life mender/spell damage passives), 3691 total spell damage is required to favor argonian healing done vs altmer. Which is an absurd amount for a healer.
It is important to note that this comparison does not normalize health between the races, which isn't a typical scenario. More often than not, some investment into health is made, which would allow argonians to make up for the extra magicka altmer has.
Edit: equations for reference
1.08*(31000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(30000+10.5*1.2*x)
30k magic on a healer is absurdly low, most have between 32k and 36k, i personally have 36k on my templar argonian and 37k on my front bar as nord warden healer, he uses SPC yet, here is vanaEver, who is a topend healer, with 33k on a breton-https://youtu.be/c4mrEVPY4Vs?t=418
1683 base spell damage too, with a standard berserker enchant on her powered resto.
same with a warden bretonhttps://youtu.be/Muj4oHmHOSA?t=350
also in your calculations, you have to remember that along with that 258 spell damage, high elfs get 2k magic and dark elfs get 1825.
My calculations were designed with bare minimums in mind, but they do take into account the magicka differential between argonian and high elf.
Increasing the magicka pool to higher values would lower the required amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. Ex/ if we take 35k max mag as a benchmark (with normalized health, assuming the 1000 max health argonians offer can be exactly made up for with magicka in other areas), 6% healing done starts out shining 258 spell damage at 1866 total spell damage.
1.08*(35000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(35000+10.5*1.2*x)
What exactly do you mean by "outshine"? What does that equate to when it's all said and done? A few extra hundred on them heals? Spell damage is used for both damage and healing, healing done is just healing done and repairing structures as far as I know. For such a measly amount. Healing done and healing received was much better. They should have just reduced resourcefulness and left the rest alone.
Yeah sorry outshine/outperform are stretches of the word.
What I'm referring to is when 6% healing done offers stronger heals than 258 spell damage. And in most cases, as I've mentioned earlier, it is a very negligible amount of more healing, for a very steep price in loss of damage.
I'm 100% on board the "life mender is a weak passive" train.
I've also mentioned a few times now that argonians should be due to see a 1.5 set bonus increase to their racial passives because they were shorted this when the set bonuses to healing done were doubled. (6% healing done passive effectively dropped from 3 whole set bonuses down to 1.5 set bonuses with no compensation). They were balanced to have 6.5 set bonuses (like all other races) but were then indirectly nerfed, leaving them 1.5 set bonuses behind their peers.
Argonians are due for a buff.Edited by twing1_ on May 27, 2019 8:57PM0 -
Dracan_Fontom✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.
But is this also considering the stat difference between Argonian and Altmer/Dunmer?
That same 2070 SD on an Argonian would be 2328 SD for Altmer/Dunmer and would then result in Major Sorcery buffing it up to 2793 instead of 2484. That's a 309 SD point difference on top of the 1k extra magic Altmer/Dunmer have as well that I just can't see Life Mender making up for on its own.
It is accounting for the additional 258 spell damage, but I failed to account for the extra 1000 magicka. I'll run the numbers momentarily.
When the extra magicka is taken into account as well (comparing the two races against each other as a whole, and not just the life mender/spell damage passives), 3691 total spell damage is required to favor argonian healing done vs altmer. Which is an absurd amount for a healer.
It is important to note that this comparison does not normalize health between the races, which isn't a typical scenario. More often than not, some investment into health is made, which would allow argonians to make up for the extra magicka altmer has.
Edit: equations for reference
1.08*(31000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(30000+10.5*1.2*x)
30k magic on a healer is absurdly low, most have between 32k and 36k, i personally have 36k on my templar argonian and 37k on my front bar as nord warden healer, he uses SPC yet, here is vanaEver, who is a topend healer, with 33k on a breton-https://youtu.be/c4mrEVPY4Vs?t=418
1683 base spell damage too, with a standard berserker enchant on her powered resto.
same with a warden bretonhttps://youtu.be/Muj4oHmHOSA?t=350
also in your calculations, you have to remember that along with that 258 spell damage, high elfs get 2k magic and dark elfs get 1825.
My calculations were designed with bare minimums in mind, but they do take into account the magicka differential between argonian and high elf.
Increasing the magicka pool to higher values would lower the required amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. Ex/ if we take 35k max mag as a benchmark (with normalized health, assuming the 1000 max health argonians offer can be exactly made up for with magicka in other areas), 6% healing done starts out shining 258 spell damage at 1866 total spell damage.
1.08*(35000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(35000+10.5*1.2*x)
What exactly do you mean by "outshine"? What does that equate to when it's all said and done? A few extra hundred on them heals? Spell damage is used for both damage and healing, healing done is just healing done and repairing structures as far as I know. For such a measly amount. Healing done and healing received was much better. They should have just reduced resourcefulness and left the rest alone.
Yeah sorry outshine/outperform are stretches of the word.
What I'm referring to is when 6% healing done offers stronger heals than 258 spell damage. And in most cases, as I've mentioned earlier, it is a very negligible amount of more healing, for a very steep price in loss of damage.
I'm 100% on board the "life lender is a weak passive" train.
I've also mentioned a few times now that argonians should be due to see a 1.5 set bonus increase to their racial passives because they were shorted this when the set bonuses to healing done were doubled. (6% healing done passive effectively dropped from 3 whole set bonuses down to 1.5 set bonuses with no compensation). They were balanced to have 6.5 set bonuses (like all other races) but were then indirectly nerfed, leaving them 1.5 set bonuses behind their peers.
Argonians are due for a buff.
Even if 6% healing done can outshine the spell weapon damage, overhealing is a thing whereas overdpsing is not.3 -
AshTal✭✭✭✭It was considered a good passive giving both a + to healing recieved and healing given - so it was nerfed to hell.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dracan_Fontom wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »There is always someone looking for a ridiculous buff on the forums. Why don't you look at the racial passives outside of isolation? Oh wait, then your argument collapses...
Let me guess... you play an orc? The argonian passives kinda suck after they were nerfed. 6% is so minuscule compared to 258 spell/wep damage. The potion passive was cool but that got nerfed and it's noticeable.
Actually I don't, but I am smart enough to know giving 10% healing on a racial is a stupid idea. Whatever helps you sleep at night, day, or whenever though. I honestly can care less since balance is crap anyway. Just don't come on to the forums and claim a passive is weak or you're seeking fair balance when your change would create imbalance and give you power in PvP since the change still wouldn't be noticeable on any PvE builds. Thanks.
Yes because everyone is rocking the Ritual Mundus in PvP. Considering that Altmer/Dunmer/Orc all heal better than Argonian on top of doing more damage, I fail to see how increasing their healing done would somehow break them in PvP.
Let's do a fair comparison.
Argonian with 10% Healing Done and Apprentice vs Altmer with 258 Spell Damage and Ritual. Altmer has an additional 1k Magic on top of having a good 20 extra Spell Damage over the Apprentice stone so......THEY'D STILL HAVE BETTER HEALS THAN ARGONIAN!!!!!....I am smart enough....
I just proved you wrong so no, you're not.
Where did you prove me wrong exactly? o.o Looking at it in a vacuum with your own build or in isolation?
As a DPS, Healer or Tank spec, the 258 Weapon/Spell damage will always net you stronger heals, period
Assuming a healer has 30k mag, is running minor mending and major sorcery, 6% healing done does out perform 258 spell damage at ~2263 total spell damage.
It's also important to note that this doesn't account for additional sources to healing done outside of minor mending (like cp). Additional bonuses to healing done favor the 258 spell damage bonus more than the argonian life mender passive, but even with these I would assume that life mender will still beat out 258 spell damage at no higher than 2500 spell damage.
I agree with your spirit that life mender is a weak racial, but it does actually start to outperform 258 spell damage. It's just that this is contingent on healers running a higher amount of spell damage than most casual healers would typically run, and even then life mender's benefit over 258 spell damage is absurdly small, and does not nearly outweigh the loss of damage. It needs a buff.
30k: Doable.
Minor Mending: Templar
Major Sorcery: Doable
2263 Spell Damage: Unlikely to happen. Assuming Perfect Olorime/Mending, the most Spell Damage you can get with Major Sorcery active would be 1800-1900 so unless you change out some jewelry enchantments for Spell Damage or use the Apprentice Stone, you're not reaching that 2263 threshold without compromising your sustain somewhat and the potion passive alone is not going to cover the sustain lose by itself. You can forget sustain entirely if the threshold is actually 2500 spell damage, in which case, you'd just be better off using an Altmer/Dunmer since you'd get more Spell Damage than the Apprentice offers and just use the Ritual Mundus to completely blow Life Mender out the Water.
It's just unrealistic for a healer to do so and even if you did attempt it on an Argonian, you'd get better results with Altmer/Dunmer.
Pretty typical trials gear:
2x monster set
5x olorime (258 spell dmg)
5x infallible aether (129 spell dmg)
Enchants: absorb magicka + berserker (348 spell dmg)
Gold staff: 1335 spell dmg
Total: 2070 * 1.2 for sorcery = 2484
For end game healers, it is almost impossible to not hit the requisite amount of spell damage for life mender to out perform 258 spell damage in most cases.
But as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that casual healers will have a tough time getting to the requisite amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. And even once this threshold is passed, the benefit that 6% healing done has over 258 spell damage is very very negligible, especially considering the passive damage you would be giving up to run argonian over high/dark elf.
I'm with you that the passive is far too weak. But realistically, it technically can and often does outperform 258 spell damage in terms of healing done.
But any specialized bonus (like healing done) should not require end game gear to perform its function better than general bonuses (like spell damage). Life mender should out perform 258 spell damage at a far lower total spell damage threshold and it should also provide more of a benefit than it currently does (to justify the loss in passive damage). Life mender as it currently exists is simply far too weak.
And again, argonians should be due for another 1.5 set bonuses to be added to their racials (as they were practically shorted of this amount when the healing done item set bonuses were adjusted to 4%) so there is no reason not to increase the life mender passive.
But is this also considering the stat difference between Argonian and Altmer/Dunmer?
That same 2070 SD on an Argonian would be 2328 SD for Altmer/Dunmer and would then result in Major Sorcery buffing it up to 2793 instead of 2484. That's a 309 SD point difference on top of the 1k extra magic Altmer/Dunmer have as well that I just can't see Life Mender making up for on its own.
It is accounting for the additional 258 spell damage, but I failed to account for the extra 1000 magicka. I'll run the numbers momentarily.
When the extra magicka is taken into account as well (comparing the two races against each other as a whole, and not just the life mender/spell damage passives), 3691 total spell damage is required to favor argonian healing done vs altmer. Which is an absurd amount for a healer.
It is important to note that this comparison does not normalize health between the races, which isn't a typical scenario. More often than not, some investment into health is made, which would allow argonians to make up for the extra magicka altmer has.
Edit: equations for reference
1.08*(31000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(30000+10.5*1.2*x)
30k magic on a healer is absurdly low, most have between 32k and 36k, i personally have 36k on my templar argonian and 37k on my front bar as nord warden healer, he uses SPC yet, here is vanaEver, who is a topend healer, with 33k on a breton-https://youtu.be/c4mrEVPY4Vs?t=418
1683 base spell damage too, with a standard berserker enchant on her powered resto.
same with a warden bretonhttps://youtu.be/Muj4oHmHOSA?t=350
also in your calculations, you have to remember that along with that 258 spell damage, high elfs get 2k magic and dark elfs get 1825.
My calculations were designed with bare minimums in mind, but they do take into account the magicka differential between argonian and high elf.
Increasing the magicka pool to higher values would lower the required amount of total spell damage to favor 6% healing done over 258 spell damage. Ex/ if we take 35k max mag as a benchmark (with normalized health, assuming the 1000 max health argonians offer can be exactly made up for with magicka in other areas), 6% healing done starts out shining 258 spell damage at 1866 total spell damage.
1.08*(35000+10.5*1.2*(x+258))=1.14*(35000+10.5*1.2*x)
What exactly do you mean by "outshine"? What does that equate to when it's all said and done? A few extra hundred on them heals? Spell damage is used for both damage and healing, healing done is just healing done and repairing structures as far as I know. For such a measly amount. Healing done and healing received was much better. They should have just reduced resourcefulness and left the rest alone.
Yeah sorry outshine/outperform are stretches of the word.
What I'm referring to is when 6% healing done offers stronger heals than 258 spell damage. And in most cases, as I've mentioned earlier, it is a very negligible amount of more healing, for a very steep price in loss of damage.
I'm 100% on board the "life lender is a weak passive" train.
I've also mentioned a few times now that argonians should be due to see a 1.5 set bonus increase to their racial passives because they were shorted this when the set bonuses to healing done were doubled. (6% healing done passive effectively dropped from 3 whole set bonuses down to 1.5 set bonuses with no compensation). They were balanced to have 6.5 set bonuses (like all other races) but were then indirectly nerfed, leaving them 1.5 set bonuses behind their peers.
Argonians are due for a buff.
Even if 6% healing done can outshine the spell weapon damage, overhealing is a thing whereas overdpsing is not.
Just to be a smartass, "Overdpsing" is a thing too, but it only really matters in fights without healers and selfheals or pvp. A zerg in which everyone focuses the same enemy will lose to a group in which only a few people focus the same person with minimized overkill. But in an MMO Overkill isn't nearly as important as it is in strategy games like Age of Empires.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd be ok with it at 8%. Would also like some poison resistance back and while they're at it, Bosmer need their stealth bonus reinstated. Just fix them already! This blatant racism has gone on long enough!
0 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Zos recently stated they will not be reviewing racial passives again in the near future.
They better rethink that because as it stands the lore doesn't match the passives.
If they are going to continue to add lore to the game stating Argonians have both resistances, then we should have both. There is really no disputing it now, the combat devs and the lore devs obviously do not communicate and the combat devs messed up royally.
2 -
Hexquisite✭✭✭✭Just a couple of notes:
Many PVP healers run with less than 30 K magic, I personally sit arund 30 K depending on set, and often have the most magic in group.
Also I use the Steed Mundus, and know many healers that do as well. I realize that this is mostly a PVe discussion, but, I read a few pvp comments about pvp Mundus so that I would add this. I run small scale pvp though, so my choices are completely different than someone who runs in a 20 person group.
Now my solution would be that if an Argonian Character slots X amount of Healing/buff/Debuffs---they get 8 % heaing done. And then, any Templar who slots X amount of healng/buffs/debuffs gets Major Protection back on their Empowering Sweeps and Light's Champion. That way it can't be abused by DPS, but I as a healer have some other things to protect myself in PVP when I am focused, which is all the time.
I was personally hoping to not have to run so tanky this patch, but alas, I am still super tanky. Impreg/Transmutation/protection on Jewels. I prefer to wear SPC, but DPS seems to have increased, right before the patch and now after, not saying it's bad just saying that I had to adjust.
I realize that the game constantly changing is a good thing over all, but it's a bit hard as a healer PVe or PVP not to get a little down about all our healing abilities and such constantly getting nerfed.
Edited by Hexquisite on May 29, 2019 9:49PMPC NA~Ethereal Traders Union~~Spicy Economics~~Tropic Thunder~~Us Ghosts~0
