Dark Flare(37% damage reduction), Snipe(25% damage reduction), Uppercut(14% damage redu) after patch

tamrielwinner · May 2019

I've tried out the ranged options. For the most part it's an enormous damage nerf to these abilities. The 200ms cooldown and having them "cast more frequently" is useless with how these abilities actually fit into pvp combat. People are mentioning how there's question if this is working correct on live. The 200ms shouldn't really change the cosmic divide between how beneficial these abilities worked before and after patch since they're mostly used as abilities that initiate combat.

The faster travel of the projectiles is a net loss compared to before. They move at 2x the speed now, maybe more. Before, with the travel time, you actually had more time to initiate another damage ability to follow up before your projectile would hit, which was the biggest factor in using clunkier, vulnerable, movement slowing ranged skills.

The travel speed might benefit Dark Flare because it has been easy to avoid, but it should still be avoidable since it's first casted and then flies through the sky.

Haven't used Uppercut yet, which is maybe a bit less worse off because it's much more usable in combat. The mention of the benefit of global cooldown reduction in the patch notes being a dps boost on this one ability is intriguing but undoubtedly based off of a target dummy parse or perfect scenario and not from variable pvp combat, two distinctly different things. Still have no clue why there was a damage nerf here.

Conclusion:
Ultimately these abilities require a cost and risk by the nature of their function. The massive damage reduction goes without explanation for where they were in game before this point and they actually functioned better before, not considering the damage changes. Additionally, removing 37%, 25%, and 14% damage is unwarranted. With all of the claims to have things on par and in line; a silly, naive, ultimately unpragmatic concept, Snipe ends up delving for 5% less than the other casted abilities across the board. If additional damage from minor fracture and poisoned damage over time are to be included in this number, then snipe is still weaker because of it.

It remains to be explained why Crystal Shard and morphs still do as much damage as Uppercut and Snipe previously did. Crystal Fragments is about 15% ahead of Dark Flare/Uppercut and Crystal Blast is about 10% ahead in damage. Another thing that won't make sense, despite any attempt of an explanation.

Anyone using Uppercut, feel free to post your experiences from today.

Muzzick · May 2019

They nerfed those abilities for the sake of nerfing.
The cool-down is just a lame excuse they made which they don't believe themselves.
They are not going to change it so there's no use in testing it further.
I already deleted snipe and incap which was good because I needed the extra skill points anyway.

Insco851 · May 2019

Can you still dizzy dawny execute folks?

DeadlyRecluse · May 2019

Dark flare as the core of a build is pretty much dead, IMO. It already took big sacrifices to make it worth running, as you aren't landing more than 2 hits on anybody before they react, and against a good opponent maybe 1 in 4 is landing--so it has to hit BIG.

It works better now as a part of a more well-rounded build primarily for the debuff, but as a primary damage skill, it just doesn't have the juice.

Dizzy swing/uppercut seems fine. I'll still use it on an occasional build as a CC, but 14% is significant if you are looking to use it as a main source of damage.

Haven't played with Snipe yet since the change.

TumlinTheJolly · May 2019

Missing the big, juicy high risk / high reward Uppercutting in PvP. Crushing's animation is pretty meh, so I don't feel there is a good substitute. As a result, I've switched away from DK 😢 Bombard spam NB has been fun though...

Crixus8000 · May 2019

Uppercut should not have been nerfed.

The fact that you might get higher dps for spamming this skill means nothing because no half decent player was going around spamming this. It was used for burst to basically one shot your opponent. And landing multiple dizzy swings in a row is not realistic anyway when fighting a good player.

The skill is supposed to be high risk, high reward, you want that landed hit to make it count and get your kill, now it's high risk mediocre reward.

Baphomet · May 2019

With the damage reduction on dark flare, give it a 4m AoE damage component.

Uppercut was fine before.

Snipe needed a slight nerf.

Surak73 · May 2019

tamrielwinner wrote: »

Ultimately these abilities require a cost and risk by the nature of their function.

"Snipe" and "requires a risk" don't fit well in the same sentence though...

Stibbons · May 2019

Crystal blast/Crystal shards needs to put in line with other skills. No free meals to sorcerers this time!

Minno · May 2019

Stibbons wrote: »

Crystal blast/Crystal shards needs to put in line with other skills. No free meals to sorcerers this time!

now now, don't be the "consistency police". Not every spell needs to match the others, especially when you see the following:
-snipe has minor defile and poison dot
- DF has empower/major defile and \
- frags is just raw dmg.

Of the three, I expect frags to not be changed for it's hard cast for that reason of having no utility and the fact its core identity is that of dmg.

KillsAllElves · May 2019

Too many cry babies missing their pacifiers.

Lets nerf abilities and food but not nerf lag and these pvp builds with ridiculous resistances.

TumlinTheJolly · May 2019

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Too many cry babies missing their pacifiers.

Lets nerf abilities and food but not nerf lag and these pvp builds with ridiculous resistances.

Hey... We can still beat people up with other builds. Good players always adapt and pick replacement skills. It just sucks that boring, faceroll skills (like spammable AoEs) get buffed, while the fun and high-risk/high-reward skills (like Uppercut) get nerfed. It's poor game design... Potentially the idea is to level the playing field between low and high ping players??? I don't care. I play on 250 ping and I want my Uppercut

I want to feel excited to log in and swing my big ol' sword around... rather than logging in knowing I'm most likely going to end up face rolling dots and/or AoE spammables.

Toc de Malsvi · May 2019

Minno wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Crystal blast/Crystal shards needs to put in line with other skills. No free meals to sorcerers this time!

now now, don't be the "consistency police". Not every spell needs to match the others, especially when you see the following:
-snipe has minor defile and poison dot
- DF has empower/major defile and \
- frags is just raw dmg.

Of the three, I expect frags to not be changed for it's hard cast for that reason of having no utility and the fact its core identity is that of dmg.

Frags gets instant cast proc, 20% damage bump, 50% cost decrease.
Blast gets AOE stun.

It needs to be brought in line.

Minno · May 2019

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Crystal blast/Crystal shards needs to put in line with other skills. No free meals to sorcerers this time!

now now, don't be the "consistency police". Not every spell needs to match the others, especially when you see the following:
-snipe has minor defile and poison dot
- DF has empower/major defile and \
- frags is just raw dmg.

Of the three, I expect frags to not be changed for it's hard cast for that reason of having no utility and the fact its core identity is that of dmg.

Frags gets instant cast proc, 20% damage bump, 50% cost decrease.
Blast gets AOE stun.

It needs to be brought in line.

its just damage, and you get the 50% cost decrease/dmg increase when you use other abilities via a proc chance. So no change.

Blast is AOE stun, sure. But its hard hard with no dmg increase mechanic nor debuff. So also no change other than to make it attractive and thus bring it in line with DF/snipe. Otherwise no change.

Don't be a apart of the consistency-police, it's insulting.

Toc de Malsvi · May 2019

Minno wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Crystal blast/Crystal shards needs to put in line with other skills. No free meals to sorcerers this time!

now now, don't be the "consistency police". Not every spell needs to match the others, especially when you see the following:
-snipe has minor defile and poison dot
- DF has empower/major defile and \
- frags is just raw dmg.

Of the three, I expect frags to not be changed for it's hard cast for that reason of having no utility and the fact its core identity is that of dmg.

Frags gets instant cast proc, 20% damage bump, 50% cost decrease.
Blast gets AOE stun.

It needs to be brought in line.

its just damage, and you get the 50% cost decrease/dmg increase when you use other abilities via a proc chance. So no change.

Blast is AOE stun, sure. But its hard hard with no dmg increase mechanic nor debuff. So also no change other than to make it attractive and thus bring it in line with DF/snipe. Otherwise no change.

Don't be a apart of the consistency-police, it's insulting.

I agree its just damage, I'll trade you Snipes minor defile and range and you can give me the instant proc. I think mag sorcs like cast time skills.

edit: /s

Prutton · May 2019

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I agree its just damage, I'll trade you Snipes minor defile and range and you can give me the instant proc. I think mag sorcs like cast time skills.

Actually frags is a very cool ability in PVE. It gives something to keep an eye on, like a minigame, similar to what nightblades have with spectral bow. I believe the instant proc should be part of the base ability, with one morph to stamina and another to magicka, because it is one of the coolest parts of being a sorc.

Toc de Malsvi · May 2019

Prutton wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I agree its just damage, I'll trade you Snipes minor defile and range and you can give me the instant proc. I think mag sorcs like cast time skills.

Actually frags is a very cool ability in PVE. It gives something to keep an eye on, like a minigame, similar to what nightblades have with spectral bow. I believe the instant proc should be part of the base ability, with one morph to stamina and another to magicka, because it is one of the coolest parts of being a sorc.

Please read the previous conversation to understand my statement.

I do not believe any Sorc wants to give up Frags proc effect. It is the sole reason that morph is used and the other not. The proc effect is far more valuable than anything offered by other cast time skills. It allows you to bypass using it as a cast time skill and inherit a powerful instant cast burst.

frostz417 · May 2019

Snipe should be nerfed more tbh

Dr_Ganknstein · May 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Snipe should be nerfed more tbh

Translation: I just got killed by snipe.

That's all this dude says. L2p.

frostz417 · May 2019

Icky wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Snipe should be nerfed more tbh

Translation: I just got killed by snipe.

That's all this dude says. L2p.

Yep, L2p while a bowtard is spamming snipes from 40 meters away desyncing people or sniping 1 person as he’s fighting 3 others then spamming cloak as soon as someone looks at him wrong 30 meters away. Totally l2p.
They really shouldn’t let zerglings on these forums, so ignorant 🤣

Demra · May 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Snipe should be nerfed more tbh

Translation: I just got killed by snipe.

That's all this dude says. L2p.

Yep, L2p while a bowtard is spamming snipes from 40 meters away desyncing people or sniping 1 person as he’s fighting 3 others then spamming cloak as soon as someone looks at him wrong 30 meters away. Totally l2p.
They really shouldn’t let zerglings on these forums, so ignorant 🤣

Why is that wrong?

Minno · May 2019

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Crystal blast/Crystal shards needs to put in line with other skills. No free meals to sorcerers this time!

now now, don't be the "consistency police". Not every spell needs to match the others, especially when you see the following:
-snipe has minor defile and poison dot
- DF has empower/major defile and \
- frags is just raw dmg.

Of the three, I expect frags to not be changed for it's hard cast for that reason of having no utility and the fact its core identity is that of dmg.

Frags gets instant cast proc, 20% damage bump, 50% cost decrease.
Blast gets AOE stun.

It needs to be brought in line.

its just damage, and you get the 50% cost decrease/dmg increase when you use other abilities via a proc chance. So no change.

Blast is AOE stun, sure. But its hard hard with no dmg increase mechanic nor debuff. So also no change other than to make it attractive and thus bring it in line with DF/snipe. Otherwise no change.

Don't be a apart of the consistency-police, it's insulting.

I agree its just damage, I'll trade you Snipes minor defile and range and you can give me the instant proc. I think mag sorcs like cast time skills.

edit: /s

Lucky for you then it's a class defining class skill instead of a generic walking weapon that everyone has access to

.

Dr_Ganknstein · June 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Snipe should be nerfed more tbh

Translation: I just got killed by snipe.

That's all this dude says. L2p.

Yep, L2p while a bowtard is spamming snipes from 40 meters away desyncing people or sniping 1 person as he’s fighting 3 others then spamming cloak as soon as someone looks at him wrong 30 meters away. Totally l2p.
They really shouldn’t let zerglings on these forums, so ignorant 🤣

Didnt they teach you how to dodge roll in the starter tutorial?

KillsAllElves · June 2019

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Too many cry babies missing their pacifiers.

Lets nerf abilities and food but not nerf lag and these pvp builds with ridiculous resistances.

Hey... We can still beat people up with other builds. Good players always adapt and pick replacement skills. It just sucks that boring, faceroll skills (like spammable AoEs) get buffed, while the fun and high-risk/high-reward skills (like Uppercut) get nerfed. It's poor game design... Potentially the idea is to level the playing field between low and high ping players??? I don't care. I play on 250 ping and I want my Uppercut I want to feel excited to log in and swing my big ol' sword around... rather than logging in knowing I'm most likely going to end up face rolling dots and/or AoE spammables.

Oh i will pick another build, im going to make players who cried for snipe nerf wish they never cried for it to begin with!

Was doing testing on a new set up. 27 messages was sent to me, so i know everything is in the right place.

When this update drops on xbox every one in cyrodiil will rage. I cant wait!

LordTareq · June 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Snipe should be nerfed more tbh

Translation: I just got killed by snipe.

That's all this dude says. L2p.

Yep, L2p while a bowtard is spamming snipes from 40 meters away desyncing people or sniping 1 person as he’s fighting 3 others then spamming cloak as soon as someone looks at him wrong 30 meters away. Totally l2p.
They really shouldn’t let zerglings on these forums, so ignorant 🤣

Would it really work out better for you if the sniper instead played a hard hitting melee brawler and you were fighting 4 players in melee instead of 3 in melee and 1 spamming snipes?

uthandireb17_ESO · June 2019

I for one hate how we're all slowly pushed down the same handful of viable pvp builds by nerfing all the rest into oblivion. I for one enjoyed Snipe playstyle of high risk / high reward. I also enjoyed doing similar with Dark Flare. It was fun, being rewarded for picking out a good target and punishing their bad positioning or slow reactions. When it was done to me, I understood why it happened.

But what am I really left with now? Get in line, grab a sorc or a tank, circle an opponent of choice and dance around them with infinite sustain and heals forever and ever until one makes a mistake and maybe you can get a kill once every 10 minutes. For the love of god, it wasn't hard to counter snipe or flare builds. And when you caught one of them they were dead in 2 good hits too! This stinks to me of a dev getting one too many snipes his way and getting salty enough to change the whole game and ruin a lot of people's fun.

I was already on the fence about this game due to this limiting of every damned fun build I had in this game, and this latest nonsense isn't helping. I don't think dragons are enough to keep me playing after this latest nonsensical nerf.

Crixus8000 · June 2019

uthandireb17_ESO wrote: »

I for one hate how we're all slowly pushed down the same handful of viable pvp builds by nerfing all the rest into oblivion. I for one enjoyed Snipe playstyle of high risk / high reward. I also enjoyed doing similar with Dark Flare. It was fun, being rewarded for picking out a good target and punishing their bad positioning or slow reactions. When it was done to me, I understood why it happened.

But what am I really left with now? Get in line, grab a sorc or a tank, circle an opponent of choice and dance around them with infinite sustain and heals forever and ever until one makes a mistake and maybe you can get a kill once every 10 minutes. For the love of god, it wasn't hard to counter snipe or flare builds. And when you caught one of them they were dead in 2 good hits too! This stinks to me of a dev getting one too many snipes his way and getting salty enough to change the whole game and ruin a lot of people's fun.

I was already on the fence about this game due to this limiting of every damned fun build I had in this game, and this latest nonsense isn't helping. I don't think dragons are enough to keep me playing after this latest nonsensical nerf.

I never ask for nerfs, the only 2 things I really hated in the game was zaan and snipe. other things maybe overperform but these 2 I found take it to the next level.

And sorry but imo there was nothing high risk about snipe. It was usually played on a nightblade so you have cloak, the best defensive tool in the game, your at huge range and can pick the time to attack, and from my time getting sniped it seemed to always be when I was already engaged against multiple players. There is little risk when your far away, with pocket los and have multiple allies cc'ing and distracting your target. Snipe also hit harder than anything else in the game (from my experience) and applied the strongest debuff in the game, all while being ranged.

LordTareq wrote: »

Would it really work out better for you if the sniper instead played a hard hitting melee brawler and you were fighting 4 players in melee instead of 3 in melee and 1 spamming snipes?

Much better for me at least yes. Because no melee skill in the game hit's as hard as snipe, not even dizzy because they have to make sacrifices to dmg since they are melee and it also doesn't come with the strongest debuff in the game, while being easier to counter and I don't have to run so far past cc'ing enemies to get the kill.

Dr_Ganknstein · June 2019

Crixus8000 wrote: »

uthandireb17_ESO wrote: »

I for one hate how we're all slowly pushed down the same handful of viable pvp builds by nerfing all the rest into oblivion. I for one enjoyed Snipe playstyle of high risk / high reward. I also enjoyed doing similar with Dark Flare. It was fun, being rewarded for picking out a good target and punishing their bad positioning or slow reactions. When it was done to me, I understood why it happened.

But what am I really left with now? Get in line, grab a sorc or a tank, circle an opponent of choice and dance around them with infinite sustain and heals forever and ever until one makes a mistake and maybe you can get a kill once every 10 minutes. For the love of god, it wasn't hard to counter snipe or flare builds. And when you caught one of them they were dead in 2 good hits too! This stinks to me of a dev getting one too many snipes his way and getting salty enough to change the whole game and ruin a lot of people's fun.

I was already on the fence about this game due to this limiting of every damned fun build I had in this game, and this latest nonsense isn't helping. I don't think dragons are enough to keep me playing after this latest nonsensical nerf.

I never ask for nerfs, the only 2 things I really hated in the game was zaan and snipe. other things maybe overperform but these 2 I found take it to the next level.

And sorry but imo there was nothing high risk about snipe. It was usually played on a nightblade so you have cloak, the best defensive tool in the game, your at huge range and can pick the time to attack, and from my time getting sniped it seemed to always be when I was already engaged against multiple players. There is little risk when your far away, with pocket los and have multiple allies cc'ing and distracting your target. Snipe also hit harder than anything else in the game (from my experience) and applied the strongest debuff in the game, all while being ranged.

LordTareq wrote: »

Would it really work out better for you if the sniper instead played a hard hitting melee brawler and you were fighting 4 players in melee instead of 3 in melee and 1 spamming snipes?

Much better for me at least yes. Because no melee skill in the game hit's as hard as snipe, not even dizzy because they have to make sacrifices to dmg since they are melee and it also doesn't come with the strongest debuff in the game, while being easier to counter and I don't have to run so far past cc'ing enemies to get the kill.

You haven't been hit with a dizzy swing onslaught gank yet... but you will.

Crixus8000 · June 2019

Icky wrote: »

You haven't been hit with a dizzy swing onslaught gank yet... but you will.

Why would you assume that ? I have been hit with this combo quite a few times now, and eveytime it hit me the dizzy still never reached the same numbers snipe did, I think the highest dizzy was around 7-8k, when snipe was often doing over 10k, and the snipe could be spammed, from huge range, while again applying the most powerful debuff int he game. Nothing made me lose fights more than a snipe spammer did.

Dr_Ganknstein · June 2019

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

You haven't been hit with a dizzy swing onslaught gank yet... but you will.

Why would you assume that ? I have been hit with this combo quite a few times now, and eveytime it hit me the dizzy still never reached the same numbers snipe did, I think the highest dizzy was around 7-8k, when snipe was often doing over 10k, and the snipe could be spammed, from huge range, while again applying the most powerful debuff int he game. Nothing made me lose fights more than a snipe spammer did.

If you are dying from snipe that much then its obviously your weakness and you need to lt2 play. I Invision you will keep dying to snipe even with the damage reduction.

Crixus8000 · June 2019

Icky wrote: »

If you are dying from snipe that much then its obviously your weakness and you need to lt2 play. I Invision you will keep dying to snipe even with the damage reduction.

I never said I die to snipe, but yes getting hit 10k a sec while it applying major defile would make anyones outnumbered fight take a bad turn. And I play no cp btw so it's not like I can just roll over and over or permablock.

But sure do what everyone does when they can't defend something and just say it's a l2p issue. Because a skill hitting harder than anything, while applying the most powerful debuff in the game with 0 risk was perfectly balanced...