Dizzying swing and wreking blow

Squidgaurd · March 2019

Dizzying swing is a terrible ability to use both open world and in duels. The elder scrolls online is about 5 years old as such most people know how to block the skills that are easily telagraphed. With that logic dswing is almost impossible to land against a decent player.in duels most people will just strafe out of the conal range and you have to dance around them or root them in order to land the skill. In the time that it would take for you to land a dizzy swing against a person another person could easily land about 4 to seven surprise attacks, ransacks, jabbs for more than twice the dmg. Therefore i propose that the skills damage be reduced but for the non stun morph "wreking blow to apply a debuff such as fracture minor or major whichever And be instant cast.dizzying swing the moph that stuns can keep its cast time but with maybe an aoe targeting range instead of a conal.
Tldr;rework wreking blow to be instant cast with an added debuff to the target.
Or make dizzying swing aoe like perma instead of conal.

Squidgaurd · March 2019

Maybe i shouldive made a more clickbait title.

MentalxHammer · March 2019

Lmao I agree but seven surprise attacks in the time one dizzy goes off lmfao

Squidgaurd · March 2019

jacobabado wrote: »

Lmao I agree but seven surprise attacks in the time one dizzy goes off lmfao

Bro it do be like that sometimes if you have ever played in vivec on a dswing build you would feel the feel.

Morgul667 · March 2019

This skill is garbage

Every once and then i try it to check if it was improved with latest patches and everytime i get to the conclusion this skill is trash in a pvp environment

The cast time feels like 2-3s qnd is nearly impossible to land on something other than potato

Hard pass on this skill until its landing is improved (lag and all)

Squidgaurd · March 2019

The fact that peolle have to suck hard in order for this skill to land by itself is messed up whereas the magica version shock clench will allways land, has a better arena weapon buff. And has lower cost. It is just outperformed by everything.

Stellarvorous · March 2019

Most of the 2 hander skill line could use some tweaking half the time you see 2 handers now its for backbar buffing with forward momentum.

While 2 hander does have its issues I still front bar with it some days I hit people and they die other days I get nuked before I even get dizzy swing to cast.

If I had any real main issue with dizzy swing or any of the uppercut related skills id say when people on the forums are openly hoping to run into 2 hander specs because they can "Side step" dizzy swing or run thru the player casting it to cancel the skill.

That should be a blatant red flag to Zos that 2 hander needs some work hopefully with Elsweyr something will have been fixed by then but even if they don't ill still run 2 hander for necro just to keep that greatsword skin.

Anyways that was my 2 cents carry on

Brrrofski · March 2019

Yeh, I think think it needs tweaking. Between lag and people having a brain, it never lands.

Dizzying should stay as it is. Cast time but big damage and a stun.

Wrecking blow should have the cast time removed and the damage brought down a bit. Minor fracture would be nice or some other small buff/debuff.

Stellarvorous · March 2019

@Brrrofski while if they decide to change something on the morphs that's one thing but for absolute certainty they need to actually fix how the skills work it doesn't matter what they skill does if you can never hit anyone with it.

Flat out too many things can cancel dizzy swing/Wrecking blow …… dodging Pets blocking the owner nightblade cloak streaking away if the pet doesn't sit right on the owner lol OH! my personal favorite when people run thru you and it cancels only way to remotely hit them is swing your mouse 180 really fast hoping youl catch them while the animation is still *casting* sometimes it works if their really slow.

The base mechanic of how these skills function though needs to get unfucked simply put.

When you take the time to look how other weapon skills function where its a resto stave destro stave duel wield bow even sword board you can see the vast majority of the time those skills work and they don't have issues connecting less its horribly laggy and by that time 2 hander users have already raged out.

Its bad enough for a 2 hander you gota be right ontop of who ever your fighting praying to sithis they don't dodge bust out a sorc pet streak or bust out a damn bear cloak or just side step you like your a npc.

Then we got other 2 hander skills like the critical charges yeah im going there ...they suck outright sure you can gap close to your foe and they just zip away or still side step your dizzy swing and the crit charges do such garbage damage even with automaton and sword singer.

Stampede is supposed to give a snare but imo it doesn't really help id like to see at least 1 of the crit charge morphs get a hard CC like stun something similar to templar toppling charge or explosive charge that way even if the damage is garbage you can actually land a CC on the person your chasing and hope you can actually get them down before they get away or kill you.

Beffagorn · March 2019

2h needs a lot of work both passives and active skills, as of right now, 2h is straight up inferior compared to DW or SnB when used as your primary weapon. Rally and Executioner/Reverse are great and they're the only reason why 2h is used.

Uppercut, Crit Rush, Cleave, Forceful all need to be reworked or buffed, imo. Especially Forceful and Uppercut.

Uppercut is impossible to land on any competent player, on the best of days. Add lag on top of a clunky skill it becomes impossible to land it on anything. Since Summerset there's no poing in using Wrecking Blow with Crushing Weapon being better everything. Cheaper, more damage, 5k shield and %dmg heal

Dizzy Swing should have a small reduction in cast time and damage while Wrecking Blow should not have cast time at all.

Forceful is terrible, It's only use in some underperforming 2h pve builds and that's it. Should be reworked into something useful for both pve and pvp.

Squidgaurd · March 2019

psychotic13 · March 2019

Dont touch dizzy swing! Its my noob slayer

Squidgaurd · March 2019

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dont touch dizzy swing! Its my noob slayer

Dswing is cool when it works but it doesnt all the time so thats why it sucks.
Crit rush into dizzy followed by db and execute is awesome.

Toc de Malsvi · March 2019

This is true of all cast time skills, although this skill and morphs in particular probably feels it the most. When an opponent can light attack+skill+bash/dodge on you in the time it takes for you to fail to cast something, it greatly devalues any cast time skill. You end up taking damage, and losing opportunity as you essentially did nothing but snare yourself while you attempted to cast.

The advantages of dizzying swing over say snipe is it is not interruptable and cannot be reflected. However, the extreme disadvantage is the range and how it loses track if they walk through you. The problem remains that cast time skills do not work well within the combat frame that ESO provides.

Cast time skills either need stupid high damage to justify the cast or they need to be very hard to mitigate well like Soul Assault that just lock on the target with LOS/extreme range being the only direct escape, and high block cost/healing being the universal mitigation.

psychotic13 · March 2019

Squidgaurd wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dont touch dizzy swing! Its my noob slayer

Dswing is cool when it works but it doesnt all the time so thats why it sucks.
Crit rush into dizzy followed by db and execute is awesome.

Tbf it works alot for me, i dont find it difficult to land, but yeah thats what i do on my stamsorc its great

Wuuffyy · April 2019

Buff incap with double dmg and added minor defile.

ShadowKyuubi · April 2019

Please don't change wrecking blow...I like what it does on my stamsorc for pve.

Crixus8000 · April 2019

I hope dizzy doesn't get changed, as it will probably just end up being a nerf. Most changes people want to make the skill work better also seem to want it's damage reduced, I would rather it just be really hard to land and keep it's damage. It can be very annoying sometimes sure but it's still the best skill for my stamsorc so far for me. Snb is strong but with lag and bugs it actually misses way more often that dizzy does for me lol.

Digiman · April 2019

I think they changed it because people were able to spam the crap out of it before the empower change to do massive amounts of damage. I don't see why this ability needs an excessive cast time now with the split between empower and the stun.

Maybe 0.5 seconds would fix it. But again I worry this would just make people abuse and spam it again like before.

Ahzek · April 2019

I like that dizzying is a hard to hit, but high impact ability. It is one of the few skills in this game that require good planning and execution to use to its full potential. I enjoy being able to pull off something that is hard to do, and as such i would like the dizzying swing morph at the very least to keep its current functionality.
However, I also agree that the overall powerlevel of uppercut in PvP is a bit too low at the moment. Since increasing the damage of the skill would be quite dangerous though, id rather they reintroduce the minor maim debuff to dizzying swing, to make it stronger without giving it too much damage.

psychotic13 · April 2019

Keep dizzy as is, takes a decent player to use it reliably, especially in the lag

Davadin · April 2019

the skill is fine. it's hard to use and i keep falling victim to it, but it feels pretty balanced.

couple years back Wrecking Blow is the bread n butter in PvP by stealth players who would throw this, followed by a (buff) light attack, animation clipped with executioner. i wonder what happened to that idea?

if anything, Dizzying's stun should be unblockable, that'll be a nice addition. keep it dodgeable though and don't say "ooh people in Vivec knows how to avoid it all the time unless they're super noob" coz I'm in PC NA and it my noob ass can land it on most people.

It doesn't take a lot of skill, but it does need to use some planning to use. It is not a spammable skill, hence the 1s delay.

I mean, for god's sake, it's almost as strong as the ultimate Berserker, only difference is the resist bypassing, which in Vivec, most people got debuff for 5k and u can use a maul for 20% extra pen.

speaking of which, of 2H skill that needs to be tweaked, how about looking at Berserkers again, hmmm? Now that's one useless skill.

just my 2c.

Raammzzaa · April 2019

I think it has the cast time that it does since it hits like a truck. In my opinion it’s a solid skill, and I see it used highly effectively daily. It does take some skill to use against good players who don’t just potato in front of it.

psychotic13 · April 2019

Looks like were all in agreement, dizzying swing is one of the few things that is well balanced

Davadin · April 2019

psychotic13 wrote: »

Looks like were all in agreement, dizzying swing is one of the few things that is well balanced

i wouldn't call it well balanced just yet, but close to it. can it be improved? definitely. it's a strong skill but due to cast time, it's not a reliable, sustainable damage dealing skill (ex. see Rending Slash).

I mean, Wrecking Blow is probably the more balanced of the 2 since it can buff ur rotation as it increase next light attack damage (hey that reminds me of a particular Psijic skill with no casting time and refunded cost if missed), but Dizzying is a PvP-favorite, so it merits a lookover pass.

But yes, it's pretty balanced.

Stellarvorous · April 2019

While I would like to see uppercut and its related morphs tweaked but a instant cast for wrecking blow? idk that's pushing it were not trying to make it so people spam wrecking blow 4 times in a row to kill their targets.

But allowing uppercut and all its related morphs a improved chance of actually hitting their target would be nice.

While I see some faces in here iv seen from other related threads on this topic or related morphs of uppercut.

They are trying to make it sound as if this skill and its related morphs are fine and nothing needs to be done with it I.E its balanced if that's the case and you actually believe Uppercut Dizzy Swing and Wrecking Blow are truly balanced then imo those people should be calling for nerfs of Duel wield and SnB so they can be brought in line with 2 hander.

Because there is no way in hell if Uppercut Dizzy Swing and Wrecking blow or even 2 hander in general in their current states are truly balanced that they are even remotely on par with Duel wield and SnB otherwise youd see more front bar 2 handers instead of back bar casting with forward momentum while they swap to front bar Duel Wield or SnB.

To be clear I am not trying to get other peoples stuff nerfed I really don't want to see that happen just to see 2 hander flourish but I wont sit here and be quiet while Duel Wield *Except The Ult* Over Performs Along with SnB while 2 hander is reduced to being a back bar buffer *because 3 guys on the forum agree with each other when they say its balanced*

Im not looking for back n forth arguments on this issue.

The people saying its balanced and I obviously disagree and that is probably where it will be left but I sure hope their idea of balance isn't limited to hitting potatos who don't dodge or attempt to avoid it because imo that is not an argument for keeping Uppercut its related morphs Or even 2 Hander in its current state but that's my opinion.

I was trying to find someone's quote I saw a while back saying they would rather fight dizzy swing because they could blatantly walk thru the player and cancel the animation then fight steel tornado or bleeds I forget which one it was though im not sure if the quote is 100% accurate ill look for it more later on.

Davadin · April 2019

Christ, do u even need ANOTHER thread on this? there's arguments enough on the other 2 threads on the same page lol

Squidgaurd · June 2019

Dizzy is easier to land now but alas i have realized after all this time how mistaken i was.

MincVinyl · June 2019

After playing a dizzy swing stamsorc for almost 5 years in pvp and even in some builds against Stormhaven duelists, this recent change where dizzy lost 12% damage was the worst possible change zos could have done to the ability. The whole purpose of the ability is to be hard to hit, but rewarded with damage. If anything the ability could have been given a major/minor buff or just more damage to reward a player who is using a skill shot instead of just going master dw axe/dagger.

Making dizzy easier to land is not the answer, just take the time to get better at aiming/timing instead of suggesting making one of the only skill based abilities left in the game a *** spammable.

On another note i did get a chuckle when in the patch notes it said they reduced the damage by 12% but reduced the cast time (net 6% damage increase). The only way you will make use of the reduced cast time damage increase is on a target dummy where you can hit 20 dizzys in a row. In pvp generally you will only buff/debuff then do one or two dizzys into execute rotation. In pve i dont think dizzy comes anywhere close to being viable since it just cuts time out of your rotation.

zos please put any sort of thought into what you change

Squidgaurd · June 2019

I mean you arent wrong mac i wish i had understood that back then. But its too late now gg.

usmcjdking · June 2019

My final conclusion on DSwing is that the skill, outside of big lag, is generally fine and not in need of any buffs or reworks with the exception of how DSwing deals with block.

My conclusion on 2H is that it's generally very bad in PVP. 2H still very much lives by a combo system, which is completely overshadowed by the rotation system. DSwing - DB/Zerker - LA - Execute is still one of the smoothest, fastest, brutal combos that takes a whole lot of practice to get right and can kill players in a blink, but it requires you to hit excessively hard. The passives of 2H unfortunately do not support this system.

2H needs big self-buffing skills that give %amps for using 2h damage skills. Seething Fury remade to support 2H would be such a gargantuan buff to the dswing life that it might make it's way back into the meta.