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bleeds are too strong.

  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    They should finally ban those PVE arena weapons from PVP, and add new ones, which can be gained only throu PVP, and only work in BG's and Cyro / IC...problem to 50% solved, unless they make them OP xD

    Word.
  • Lutallo
    Lutallo
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    Bleeds should do % damage based on health or resistance. They're a tank counter after all. But at the moment you're pumping the light armor magsorc for 3k tick bleeds using Master's weapons and twin blade/blunt.
    "Rock is too OP, please nerf"
    Sincerely, Scissors.
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Sharee wrote: »
    They should finally ban those PVE arena weapons from PVP, and add new ones, which can be gained only throu PVP, and only work in BG's and Cyro / IC...problem to 50% solved, unless they make them OP xD

    Word.

    Oh I don’t have something b/c I’m a casual. Please nerf. Why do people have this mindset on an MMO?
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • Lord_Dexter
    Lord_Dexter
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    ZOS should nerf bleed builds for PVP,

    Every 2nd Stam Player understand and abusing but why not ZOS?
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Sharee wrote: »
    They should finally ban those PVE arena weapons from PVP, and add new ones, which can be gained only throu PVP, and only work in BG's and Cyro / IC...problem to 50% solved, unless they make them OP xD

    Word.

    Oh I don’t have something b/c I’m a casual. Please nerf. Why do people have this mindset on an MMO?

    Because some people enjoy PvP, some enjoy PvE, and it is not right to require either to go through a grind through an activity he doesn't enjoy just so he is not at a disadvantage in the activity he actually joined the game for.

    And this has absolutely nothing to do with "casual". You can have non-casual in both PvP and PvE, no need to force PvP-ers into non-casual PvE and vice versa.
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    They should finally ban those PVE arena weapons from PVP, and add new ones, which can be gained only throu PVP, and only work in BG's and Cyro / IC...problem to 50% solved, unless they make them OP xD

    Word.

    Oh I don’t have something b/c I’m a casual. Please nerf. Why do people have this mindset on an MMO?

    Because some people enjoy PvP, some enjoy PvE, and it is not right to require either to go through a grind through an activity he doesn't enjoy just so he is not at a disadvantage in the activity he actually joined the game for.

    And this has absolutely nothing to do with "casual". You can have non-casual in both PvP and PvE, no need to force PvP-ers into non-casual PvE and vice versa.

    that was the main thought behind it.
    I dont understand why PVP players should have to do stuff like vDSA to get a weaponset, that is way too strong in PVP.
    That has nothing to do with casual or non casual playstyle, even tho im cleary not a casual, and can breeze trouh stuff like vDSA or vMA easily.

    for sets like Spellstrategist I think its ok, since it dropps super often and if you got the wrong trait you can simply retrait it.
    But Arena sets belong to the playstyle it was dropped from, PVE Arenas dropp PVE Weapons, PVP Arenas should dropp PVP weapons, or Parts to craft a PVP weaponset.

    Maybe reward players certain Items, for getting certain stuff Done, like a PVP Passive (taking 10 Keeps / day, will Reward you with a Keeptoken, you need X Keeptokens, and some other stuff to Craft a weapon for a certain PVP weaponset)
    Casuals should have the chance to get their hands on them aswell, if they are willing to put some effort into it
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • Thanatos_inside
    ZOS should nerf bleed builds for PVP,

    Every 2nd Stam Player understand and abusing but why not ZOS?

    ZOS understand. They just dont want to loose people who prefer ez mode (bleeds / proc set/ spin to win)
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    barshemm wrote: »
    I think the people complaining about bleeds in CP pvp the most are the ones who built to about being burst. High ironclad cp allocation and lower thick skinned. I used to run with a balance of the 2 and got burst a lot. I switched to 72 iron clad and that stopped but bleeds are way harder to handle now. I choose to take the risk, line of sight and heal through them rather than deal with a stun allowing me to get burst by one person.

    If you're built similar to me to avoid burst, bleeds should hurt more. Bleeds don't one shot or combo you, adapt and figure out how to heal through or purge.

    If you are paying no-cp, sorry but the truth is until they overhaul cp, the game isn't balanced for you. Not just bleeds, but all the proc sets too.

    That reinforces my belief that it's better to avoid Cyrodiil until my CP points are maxed. 500 down. 310 more to go.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    ZOS should nerf bleed builds for PVP,

    Every 2nd Stam Player understand and abusing but why not ZOS?

    In a time long ago, in a time yet to come back again, everyone and their mother opted for burst damage over dots instead. Guess when everyone uses that playstyle, we complain about an "abuse" of burst-or-bust meta then?

    Not that I'm completely fine with bleeds as they are, but just because [insert random, made up number that fits your narrative here] goes for a playstyle, doesn't mean you have to nerf it into uselessness. It rather says that it's counterpart lacks something instead.

    But hey, bursting someone down from 100-0 in the blink of an eye is far better sinceit lengthens someones e-peen "because that combo takes so much more skill".
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on February 1, 2019 6:34PM
  • boaz733
    boaz733
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    I was hoping to see bleed nerf this week, wondering if it's gonna happen or not.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    I have an idea.

    The people who do high bleed damage, even if they where using normal builds, would probably kill you anyway with high damage.

    You just don't like the playstyle, it's not like it's overtly OP but for all the people running bleeds, you only notice that they are when they're on a top notch build.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    I have an idea.

    The people who do high bleed damage, even if they where using normal builds, would probably kill you anyway with high damage.

    You say it as if the bleed build did not do high damage otherwise.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Sharee wrote: »
    I have an idea.

    The people who do high bleed damage, even if they where using normal builds, would probably kill you anyway with high damage.

    You say it as if the bleed build did not do high damage otherwise.

    Well, having tested bleed builds in general, I find them quite low damage. They have been routinely nerfed for the last few years.

    Besides the last bastion of number-pushing *** like Balorgs + Maelstrom DW buff into Masters DW bleed, with appropriate buffs along with it, you cant even push more than about 1.5k dps from the main bleed in the game. And half the buffs you use are situational as hell.

    Then you have rend which can easily do 4k dps in pvp for 16 seconds, which you can either purge, run and heal through, or accept your fate as you would against any other ult-proccing pvp build. Like when you get hit by a 25k dragon leap in no CP.
  • J18696
    J18696
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    Should just make bleeds work same way as maces ignore a % of armor value it might end up working better on tanks like it was intended
    Edited by J18696 on February 12, 2019 11:56AM
    PC NA Server
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  • CurvedSwords123
    CurvedSwords123
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    Then they would have to give sorc some form of major fracture. There are a lot of interdependent deficiencies that need to be addressed in this game.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    J18696 wrote: »
    Should just make bleeds work same way as maces ignore a % of armor value it might end up working better on tanks like it was intended

    This would work, but only if they added more to the bleed playstyle. At the moment your general bleed use is too weak, the only builds that work are the ones that pile everything into buffing a single dot which is less fun.
  • preedb16_ESO2
    preedb16_ESO2
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    Another thing that is severely lacking is availiability of purge for most players. It's only really templars with 5x purge ability that have an effective purge, and dedicated purgebots, which can be any class in PVP I suppose. And obviously purge on rotation that go off every second or so in organized ballgroups are also very effective as the cost is spread out among several players. The warden netch only removes 1 effect on cast and if you are up against a dot+bleed build spamming that single purge won't stand a chance to keep up with the incoming DOT's.. Hell, even efficient purge that removes 2 effects won't be able to keep up, and even though the Efficient morph costs less, its not really worth slotting it unless you are a healer with 3k+ mag recovery, it's not a viable option to use for self-purging.

    Perhaps put in some new mechanics that adds potential chances to purge, like a 10-20% chance to purge an effect when you block an attack, or even better, a 3-5% or so chance to purge an effect every time you are healed, since blocking is reserved for stamina/tank builds and mag players like me only has enough stamina to block 2-3 hits, and I don't bother with blocking as the little stamina I have is vital for breaking CC or the occasional rolldodge, and without modifiers to block mitigation or cost it just isn't worth it.
    If Invigorating was bleed resist it just means you will have to chose between that and impen, and then you would be taking heavier crit hits from all other sources instead which is even worse.
    Edited by preedb16_ESO2 on February 12, 2019 12:27PM
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Another thing that is severely lacking is availiability of purge for most players. It's only really templars with 5x purge ability that have an effective purge, and dedicated purgebots, which can be any class in PVP I suppose. And obviously purge on rotation that go off every second or so in organized ballgroups are also very effective as the cost is spread out among several players. The warden netch only removes 1 effect on cast and if you are up against a dot+bleed build spamming that single purge won't stand a chance to keep up with the incoming DOT's.. Hell, even efficient purge that removes 2 effects won't be able to keep up, and even though the Efficient morph costs less, its not really worth slotting it unless you are a healer with 3k+ mag recovery, it's not a viable option to use for self-purging.

    Perhaps put in some new mechanics that adds potential chances to purge, like a 10-20% chance to purge an effect when you block an attack, or even better, a 3-5% or so chance to purge an effect every time you are healed, since blocking is reserved for stamina/tank builds and mag players like me only has enough stamina to block 2-3 hits, and I don't bother with blocking as the little stamina I have is vital for breaking CC or the occasional rolldodge, and without modifiers to block mitigation or cost it just isn't worth it.
    If Invigorating was bleed resist it just means you will have to chose between that and impen, and then you would be taking heavier crit hits from all other sources instead which is even worse.

    Here's hoping curse eater doesn't completely delete bleeds as it is.
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Another thing that is severely lacking is availiability of purge for most players. It's only really templars with 5x purge ability that have an effective purge, and dedicated purgebots, which can be any class in PVP I suppose. And obviously purge on rotation that go off every second or so in organized ballgroups are also very effective as the cost is spread out among several players. The warden netch only removes 1 effect on cast and if you are up against a dot+bleed build spamming that single purge won't stand a chance to keep up with the incoming DOT's.. Hell, even efficient purge that removes 2 effects won't be able to keep up, and even though the Efficient morph costs less, its not really worth slotting it unless you are a healer with 3k+ mag recovery, it's not a viable option to use for self-purging.

    Perhaps put in some new mechanics that adds potential chances to purge, like a 10-20% chance to purge an effect when you block an attack, or even better, a 3-5% or so chance to purge an effect every time you are healed, since blocking is reserved for stamina/tank builds and mag players like me only has enough stamina to block 2-3 hits, and I don't bother with blocking as the little stamina I have is vital for breaking CC or the occasional rolldodge, and without modifiers to block mitigation or cost it just isn't worth it.
    If Invigorating was bleed resist it just means you will have to chose between that and impen, and then you would be taking heavier crit hits from all other sources instead which is even worse.

    already suggested more purge option like 2 years ago....was turned down by the community.
    The main problem is, that there are classes which rely very heavly on DOTS like DK mag and stam...giving every opponent the ability to negate their pressure immediatly would be the grave for DK's in PVP (especially DKS, other classes maybe aswell).

    Bleed should not be alowed to stack at all. 1 bleed thats it, either run rending slashes, 2h axe, or 2h mace with carve whatever...only 1 bleed possible at any given moment.
    Problem solved, ppl would have to use other options then, since only focussing on 1 dot to be storong is not worth it.
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Another thing that is severely lacking is availiability of purge for most players. It's only really templars with 5x purge ability that have an effective purge, and dedicated purgebots, which can be any class in PVP I suppose. And obviously purge on rotation that go off every second or so in organized ballgroups are also very effective as the cost is spread out among several players. The warden netch only removes 1 effect on cast and if you are up against a dot+bleed build spamming that single purge won't stand a chance to keep up with the incoming DOT's.. Hell, even efficient purge that removes 2 effects won't be able to keep up, and even though the Efficient morph costs less, its not really worth slotting it unless you are a healer with 3k+ mag recovery, it's not a viable option to use for self-purging.

    Perhaps put in some new mechanics that adds potential chances to purge, like a 10-20% chance to purge an effect when you block an attack, or even better, a 3-5% or so chance to purge an effect every time you are healed, since blocking is reserved for stamina/tank builds and mag players like me only has enough stamina to block 2-3 hits, and I don't bother with blocking as the little stamina I have is vital for breaking CC or the occasional rolldodge, and without modifiers to block mitigation or cost it just isn't worth it.
    If Invigorating was bleed resist it just means you will have to chose between that and impen, and then you would be taking heavier crit hits from all other sources instead which is even worse.

    already suggested more purge option like 2 years ago....was turned down by the community.
    The main problem is, that there are classes which rely very heavly on DOTS like DK mag and stam...giving every opponent the ability to negate their pressure immediatly would be the grave for DK's in PVP (especially DKS, other classes maybe aswell).

    Bleed should not be alowed to stack at all. 1 bleed thats it, either run rending slashes, 2h axe, or 2h mace with carve whatever...only 1 bleed possible at any given moment.
    Problem solved, ppl would have to use other options then, since only focussing on 1 dot to be storong is not worth it.

    I would be happy with just 2 bleeds tbh. I main feral in WOW, we've had 2 bleeds for a while now, our playstyle simply revolved around keeping those bleeds up, and keeping them buffed.

    If they did do a rework to the general playstyle though, I would be concerned that in the very open format ESO combat system, the result would just be a very lackluster and boring bleeds playstyle that noone would want to play.
  • Murador178
    Murador178
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    I think we rly need more sources of dmg like bleeds that take zero effort - like bleeds - twillight - 100 magicka procsets- its even hard to decide if u want skoria, the new strange ice proc, overwhelming lightning proc, or maybe zaan, calurion isnt bad either. So lets add every expansion another 10 proc sets - stamina could get some new ones now selene and viper are outdated now.
    The only thing thats even cooler than offensive procs are defensive procs like earthgore, trollking.
    Do u guys remember the times in which bloodspawn was seen as the cheesy proc set :smiley: and everybody was just using normal stat bonus sets. Times where u needed to press buttons to kill someobody and not pray for ur procs to align perfectly :trollface: . Where sets like fury, 7th legion, procs werent a thing and everybody used things like hundings, willowspath, seducer, magnus gift. U could even go out of ressources in these days.

    Counterplay wasnt nerfed yet it was intended like bashing pet summons, dark deal, heavy attacks and so on.

    Also rly nice is how u get 3k resists from a defensive monster on piece and 1.4k pen for using an offensive one.... I dont know why everybody is going the tanky route if u get double the stats from a defensive bonus.... And how do u counter the other tanks now - u take some low effort dmg tools...

    Edited by Murador178 on February 12, 2019 1:42PM
  • preedb16_ESO2
    preedb16_ESO2
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    already suggested more purge option like 2 years ago....was turned down by the community.
    The main problem is, that there are classes which rely very heavly on DOTS like DK mag and stam...giving every opponent the ability to negate their pressure immediatly would be the grave for DK's in PVP (especially DKS, other classes maybe aswell).

    Bleed should not be alowed to stack at all. 1 bleed thats it, either run rending slashes, 2h axe, or 2h mace with carve whatever...only 1 bleed possible at any given moment.
    Problem solved, ppl would have to use other options then, since only focussing on 1 dot to be storong is not worth it.

    MagDK's have good direct damage abilities too, they don't have to run all DOTs, lash is good, although melee range, but force pulse and reach(with master inferno staff) are also very good direct(+dot on reach) spammables. And DK jump ulti is probably the most powerful ulti in PVP. Adding mechanics with a small chance for a heal to cleanse an effect isn't going to "kill" MagDKs or DOT/bleed builds in PVP, but right now you can stack up so many DOTs and bleeds to even rival burst dps from direct-dmg gankers, with nearly no way to defend against other than to have a healer nearby to counter-burst heal..

    What is more disturbing to me in non-CP PVP right now is that stamina players are currently able to run without any magicka healers and still be able to heal and sustain while being incredibly tanky with heavy armor and at the same time push more DPS than most magicka DD builds..

    Just the other day there was a small group of 6 or so players attacking a keep, they were all staminas, 2 stamsorc, stamdk and 2 stamdens I believe, and they didn't even flinch at the gate when 4 kettles of oil were pouring down on them, and they didn't even bother using siege shield.. :p
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    already suggested more purge option like 2 years ago....was turned down by the community.
    The main problem is, that there are classes which rely very heavly on DOTS like DK mag and stam...giving every opponent the ability to negate their pressure immediatly would be the grave for DK's in PVP (especially DKS, other classes maybe aswell).

    Bleed should not be alowed to stack at all. 1 bleed thats it, either run rending slashes, 2h axe, or 2h mace with carve whatever...only 1 bleed possible at any given moment.
    Problem solved, ppl would have to use other options then, since only focussing on 1 dot to be storong is not worth it.

    MagDK's have good direct damage abilities too, they don't have to run all DOTs, lash is good, although melee range, but force pulse and reach(with master inferno staff) are also very good direct(+dot on reach) spammables. And DK jump ulti is probably the most powerful ulti in PVP. Adding mechanics with a small chance for a heal to cleanse an effect isn't going to "kill" MagDKs or DOT/bleed builds in PVP, but right now you can stack up so many DOTs and bleeds to even rival burst dps from direct-dmg gankers, with nearly no way to defend against other than to have a healer nearby to counter-burst heal..

    What is more disturbing to me in non-CP PVP right now is that stamina players are currently able to run without any magicka healers and still be able to heal and sustain while being incredibly tanky with heavy armor and at the same time push more DPS than most magicka DD builds..

    Just the other day there was a small group of 6 or so players attacking a keep, they were all staminas, 2 stamsorc, stamdk and 2 stamdens I believe, and they didn't even flinch at the gate when 4 kettles of oil were pouring down on them, and they didn't even bother using siege shield.. :p

    greetings from vigor stackings :joy:

    well jeah magDK for example has some great and strong direct dmg skills, however the real pressure from a DK are his Dots, they are the main source of offensice pressure, even if its not really a threat, but the psychologic pressure you put on an enemie by stacking dont (no matter how strong they are) is also very effective.


    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • boaz733
    boaz733
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    well, at least we all agree that bleeds need a nerf.
  • Stx
    Stx
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    Can purge and ritual remove bleeds? If the answer is yes, then I honestly dont see a problem.

    And as someone else said, most people skimp on thick skin because they dont want to get bursted.... so maybe if bleeds are a huge issue, change some points around.
  • Stx
    Stx
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    boaz733 wrote: »
    well, at least we all agree that bleeds need a nerf.

    I agree that bleeds are fine, but maybe a certain item set needs to be nerfed (masters dual wield).
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Omg the just nerfed the damage that would be increased from medium armor and LA values and so it’s now just a regular dot. You are now saying nerf all dots bc they hurt your heavy armor vigor heals.
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    Galarthor wrote: »
    Drop Bleed and Oblivion damage completely and fix the individual skills, skill-lines, and armor types so that they are balanced. Bleed and Oblivion damage are nothing but a ill-designed band-aid that ZOS is trying to sell as a permanent solution.

    This is the only comment you need to read.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • voldran
    voldran
    I have always wondered how can you get that much bleed damage in heavy armor.
    Sotha PC EU
    Dravron Stormwing - MagSorc || Voldros Nightwing - MagBlade || Zorvo Morningstar - MagPlar || Dracos Nightwing - Mag/Stam DK
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Issue I see is proc sets and bleeds are stronger than just boosting stats. Them being strong is okay, that way it’s an option, being stronger isn’t good.
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