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Maybe Altmer isn't bad as we thought....

Tasear
Tasear
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Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525.

So was having a discussion and they were saying how 99% of the time Altmer was going to return magicka and people were looking at the passive at the wrong way. What do you guys say? If this is true then makes a lot more sense?
  • DarkPicture
    DarkPicture
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    If they isnt bad, answer on 1 question why should I choose altmer over breton on magicka builds? (we talking only about passives, not appearance)

    1. both have 2k magicka and on both cp will have affect
    2. altmer will get stamina 625 WHEN HE WILL USE CLASS ABILITY, when breton have just 100 magicka regen (altmer on live have 45)
    3. Breton have 7% magicka reduction, when altmer have 0
    4. Altmer have 258 spell dmg but breton with 7% have enough sustain to put berserk on back bar, altmer can do the same thing but he will lose much more sustain, breton will not.
    5. 5% reduction dmg when WE USING CHANNELING ABILITES from altmer (magplar in both scenario and pvp sorc so the rest classes have 0 beneftis from it) vs 2,3k spell resist and 4,6k when breton will get some element on self, it will proc in both scenario

    So why should I choose altmer? For 1% more xp?
    Edited by DarkPicture on February 11, 2019 8:29PM
  • sneakymitchell
    sneakymitchell
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    Looks fine. But they argue about high elves being magic only race. But if high elves be magic only race then no unquieness cause it’s going be like a Breton.
    (Possibly they use too much stam for blocking, roll dodging, and sprinting. But they want magic return instead of stam but both are always useful in return.) Also That resources been increase cause Breton does more substain compare to high elves for magic DPS..
    I don’t play other races I play as one race which it is nord. I’m fine with nord passive you don’t see me crying about health recovery not being there. I rather have ulti than health recovery now a days. And the resistance is fine for being flat so that way I don’t lose anything if I stack resistance and the % value is getting weaker if I increase my resistance too much.
    NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
    PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    [removed quoted content]

    There are tonnes of threads talking about it, just under incorrect/hidden titles. Like such hits as "[There is almost no difference between Dunmer and Altmer]" or "[Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest DPS]" and many more.
    Edited by ZOS_RikardD on February 12, 2019 4:52PM
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Jhalin wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    I’m not aggressive I’m simply annoyed at the attempts to farm Agrees or something because these posts have no substance. Obviously “returns the lowest maximum resource” is never going to return mag on a mag build. There’s nothing to discuss about it, that’s simply how it works.

    Well I can do a lot better if I wanted to farm things. I am not that kinda of person to farm things. I am genuinely concerned if altmer is stupid design decision or as that person said it that returns magicka most of the time not stamina. I don't even play altmer main, but I have respect for what this race means to players as most popular race, so I want it to be successful for others.
    Edited by Tasear on February 11, 2019 8:31PM
  • Tasear
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    There are tonnes of threads talking about it, just under incorrect/hidden titles. Like such hits as "[There is almost no difference between Dunmer and Altmer]" or "[Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest DPS]" and many more.

    So to ask my question again? Does Altmer return magicka most of the time, because the wording is tricking.
  • Tasear
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    Browart wrote: »
    If they isnt bad, answer on 1 question why should I choose altmer over breton on magicka builds? (we talking only about passives, not appearance)

    1. both have 2k magicka and on both cp will have affect
    2. altmer will get stamina 625 WHEN HE WILL USE CLASS ABILITY, when breton have just 100 magicka regen (altmer on live have 45)
    3. Breton have 7% magicka reduction, when altmer have 0
    4. Altmer have 258 spell dmg but breton with 7% have enough sustain to put berserk on back bar, altmer can do the same thing but he will lose much more sustain, breton will not.
    5. 5% reduction dmg when WE USING CHANNELING ABILITES from altmer (magplar in both scenario and pvp sorc so the rest classes have 0 beneftis from it) vs 2,3k spell resist and 4,6k when breton will get some element on self, it will proc in both scenario

    So why should I choose altmer? For 1% more xp?

    Okay since my title openned it up? What could make altmer vs Breton better?
  • Ogou
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    There are tonnes of threads talking about it, just under incorrect/hidden titles. Like such hits as "[There is almost no difference between Dunmer and Altmer]" or "[Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest DPS]" and many more.

    So to ask my question again? Does Altmer return magicka most of the time, because the wording is tricking.

    How is the wording tricky? Spell recharge returns the lowest of the max ressources. So on mag characters it will return stamina and on stam characters it will return magicka.
  • ezio45
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    Browart wrote: »
    If they isnt bad, answer on 1 question why should I choose altmer over breton on magicka builds? (we talking only about passives, not appearance)

    1. both have 2k magicka and on both cp will have affect
    2. altmer will get stamina 625 WHEN HE WILL USE CLASS ABILITY, when breton have just 100 magicka regen (altmer on live have 45)
    3. Breton have 7% magicka reduction, when altmer have 0
    4. Altmer have 258 spell dmg but breton with 7% have enough sustain to put berserk on back bar, altmer can do the same thing but he will lose much more sustain, breton will not.
    5. 5% reduction dmg when WE USING CHANNELING ABILITES from altmer (magplar in both scenario and pvp sorc so the rest classes have 0 beneftis from it) vs 2,3k spell resist and 4,6k when breton will get some element on self, it will proc in both scenario

    So why should I choose altmer? For 1% more xp?

    I think she means that the wording is weird and spell recharge would effect which ever pool is currently lowest rather than what pool is overall lower

    So if you have 40 max mag 10k Stam if your current mag, say 9k mag, is lower than your full Stam it will give you back mag rather than Stam

    I don't think that's the case however and if it was I don't see how it would end up giving you more mag back than Stam unless you are constantly out of resources
  • Xvorg
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    Jhalin wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    I’m not aggressive I’m simply annoyed at the attempts to farm Agrees or something because these posts have no substance. Obviously “returns the lowest maximum resource” is never going to return mag on a mag build. There’s nothing to discuss about it, that’s simply how it works.

    If it is is a % based passive (when it returns the resource if it is less than the other), then what @Tasear says is right. Any time you use magicka while not using stam, you will be under the 100% landmark, so you will be given back magicka
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Jhalin
    Jhalin
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    There are tonnes of threads talking about it, just under incorrect/hidden titles. Like such hits as "[There is almost no difference between Dunmer and Altmer]" or "[Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest DPS]" and many more.

    So to ask my question again? Does Altmer return magicka most of the time, because the wording is tricking.

    The wording is not tricky...

    It will return the lowest maximum resource. In a mag build with 30k-40k mag, it will always return stamina. Your magicka could be depleted and it will still restore stamina. It is not “lowest current resource”, which would still return stam until mag dropped below 10k, or even lower in some build
  • codestripper
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    I’m not aggressive I’m simply annoyed at the attempts to farm Agrees or something because these posts have no substance. Obviously “returns the lowest maximum resource” is never going to return mag on a mag build. There’s nothing to discuss about it, that’s simply how it works.

    If it is is a % based passive (when it returns the resource if it is less than the other), then what @Tasear says is right. Any time you use magicka while not using stam, you will be under the 100% landmark, so you will be given back magicka

    Well this is on the PTS right now, why doesn't someone go check? I'm at work so "NOT IT!"
    Since everyone seems to be doing this,
    DPS Builds:
    - Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
    - Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
    - Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
    - Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
    - Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
    - Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
    - Stamina Templar [In Development]
    - Stamina DK [In Development]
    - Stamina NB [Under 50]
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    There are tonnes of threads talking about it, just under incorrect/hidden titles. Like such hits as "[There is almost no difference between Dunmer and Altmer]" or "[Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest DPS]" and many more.

    So to ask my question again? Does Altmer return magicka most of the time, because the wording is tricking.

    No. I did think this may be the case first time I read it, but its talking about "maximum" so it will always be your offstat unless you have so much max offstat that buffs make you swap what your highest maximum is. I mean... I can potentially see some people trying to pile everything into damage as a meme to get the mag regen. lol.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Excelsus
    Excelsus
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    The channeling protection I think is a hidden gem, especially for beam spamming during executes, soul assault in pvp, a few other niche scenerios. Stam return will benefit block, bash, break free and tanking. My magplar and magden will likely remain High Elves, only my magdk Ill likely change to Breton and that has more to do with the class still being unsustainable.
  • Tasear
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    =
    Jhalin wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    There are tonnes of threads talking about it, just under incorrect/hidden titles. Like such hits as "[There is almost no difference between Dunmer and Altmer]" or "[Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest DPS]" and many more.

    So to ask my question again? Does Altmer return magicka most of the time, because the wording is tricking.

    The wording is not tricky...

    It will return the lowest maximum resource. In a mag build with 30k-40k mag, it will always return stamina. Your magicka could be depleted and it will still restore stamina. It is not “lowest current resource”, which would still return stam until mag dropped below 10k, or even lower in some build

    Because I thought what that person said made better design descion than the other one, so maybe the wording wast inttented differently, but yeah it was a question.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Excelsus wrote: »
    The channeling protection I think is a hidden gem, especially for beam spamming during executes, soul assault in pvp, a few other niche scenerios. Stam return will benefit block, bash, break free and tanking. My magplar and magden will likely remain High Elves, only my magdk Ill likely change to Breton and that has more to do with the class still being unsustainable.

    I, personally, and I assume most of the community, are unaware of exactly what counts as a "channeled" ability. I can point at a few obviouse abilities but it may be much more wide reaching than I am aware. I dont really rate it much either way tbh, unless it turns out that spammables are channeled and then you have a huge 5% DR uptime.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    I’m not aggressive I’m simply annoyed at the attempts to farm Agrees or something because these posts have no substance. Obviously “returns the lowest maximum resource” is never going to return mag on a mag build. There’s nothing to discuss about it, that’s simply how it works.

    If it is is a % based passive (when it returns the resource if it is less than the other), then what @Tasear says is right. Any time you use magicka while not using stam, you will be under the 100% landmark, so you will be given back magicka

    Well this is on the PTS right now, why doesn't someone go check? I'm at work so "NOT IT!"

    Yeah that is my hope. I brought it up because if it's true things are decent. If not maybe a suggestion for devs to take?
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    There are tonnes of threads talking about it, just under incorrect/hidden titles. Like such hits as "[There is almost no difference between Dunmer and Altmer]" or "[Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest DPS]" and many more.

    So to ask my question again? Does Altmer return magicka most of the time, because the wording is tricking.

    No. I did think this may be the case first time I read it, but its talking about "maximum" so it will always be your offstat unless you have so much max offstat that buffs make you swap what your highest maximum is. I mean... I can potentially see some people trying to pile everything into damage as a meme to get the mag regen. lol.

    Notice it says "lowest" not "smallest". Maybe I'm wrong, but I tend to think it is a % based passive.

    Stam 10000/10000 = 100%
    Mag 20000/40000= 50%

    Then the passive should return magicka
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    Excelsus wrote: »
    The channeling protection I think is a hidden gem, especially for beam spamming during executes, soul assault in pvp, a few other niche scenerios. Stam return will benefit block, bash, break free and tanking. My magplar and magden will likely remain High Elves, only my magdk Ill likely change to Breton and that has more to do with the class still being unsustainable.

    I don't think the protection is better than the 2k fire resistance. Especially because it's up all the time and your losing out on doing basically anything while channeling
  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    You don’t need to make a thread based on blatantly incorrect information when there’s four of five threads discussing this already

    I didn't see anything talking about this and I was wondering about the statement. There's no need to be aggressive.

    There are tonnes of threads talking about it, just under incorrect/hidden titles. Like such hits as "[There is almost no difference between Dunmer and Altmer]" or "[Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest DPS]" and many more.

    So to ask my question again? Does Altmer return magicka most of the time, because the wording is tricking.

    No. I did think this may be the case first time I read it, but its talking about "maximum" so it will always be your offstat unless you have so much max offstat that buffs make you swap what your highest maximum is. I mean... I can potentially see some people trying to pile everything into damage as a meme to get the mag regen. lol.

    Notice it says "lowest" not "smallest". Maybe I'm wrong, but I tend to think it is a % based passive.

    Stam 10000/10000 = 100%
    Mag 20000/40000= 50%

    Then the passive should return magicka

    The wording does need some clarification but I don't think it's % based. It is possible it means the currently lowest resource
  • Dracane
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    Enough of this non-sense here

    A clear statement now: Spell recharge restores your lowest maximum ressource. Not which ressource is currently the lowest, % wise. When I have 40k max magicka and am currently at 30k magicka, I will still restore stamina, because my 10k max stamina is the lowest maximum ressource

    I have tested it and there is no doubt and no room for speculation. This passive is bad, stupid, foolish and lore breaking.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • codestripper
    codestripper
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Enough of this non-sense here

    A clear statement now: Spell recharge restores your lowest maximum ressource. Not which ressource is currently the lowest, % wise. When I have 40k max magicka and am currently at 30k magicka, I will still restore stamina, because my 10k max stamina is the lowest maximum ressource

    I have tested it and there is no doubt and no room for speculation. This passive is bad, stupid, foolish and lore breaking.

    ahh Dracane, always coming in with the hard facts.
    Since everyone seems to be doing this,
    DPS Builds:
    - Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
    - Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
    - Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
    - Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
    - Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
    - Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
    - Stamina Templar [In Development]
    - Stamina DK [In Development]
    - Stamina NB [Under 50]
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Enough of this non-sense here

    A clear statement now: Spell recharge restores your lowest maximum ressource. Not which ressource is currently the lowest, % wise. When I have 40k max magicka and am currently at 30k magicka, I will still restore stamina, because my 10k max stamina is the lowest maximum ressource

    I have tested it and there is no doubt and no room for speculation. This passive is bad, stupid, foolish and lore breaking.

    That's stupid

    It should return magicka. Stam is full, why should it return stam?

    I still think 100% > 75%
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • WikiMeister
    WikiMeister
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Enough of this non-sense here

    A clear statement now: Spell recharge restores your lowest maximum ressource. Not which ressource is currently the lowest, % wise. When I have 40k max magicka and am currently at 30k magicka, I will still restore stamina, because my 10k max stamina is the lowest maximum ressource

    I have tested it and there is no doubt and no room for speculation. This passive is bad, stupid, foolish and lore breaking.

    I for one, have most certainly been enlightened, thank you. I (as I'm sure, many others too) was under the impression that Spell Recharge restored to the caster, the lesser of the resources with respect to current %, which would make it the ultimate sustain passive for any build specialisation. ZOS must rectify the proc condition to take effect dynamically according to current resource percentages, NOT total maximum cap.
    Edited by WikiMeister on February 11, 2019 9:17PM
    AU | NA-PC Beta veteran since 2014. Dies to 999+ latency.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Enough of this non-sense here

    A clear statement now: Spell recharge restores your lowest maximum ressource. Not which ressource is currently the lowest, % wise. When I have 40k max magicka and am currently at 30k magicka, I will still restore stamina, because my 10k max stamina is the lowest maximum ressource

    I have tested it and there is no doubt and no room for speculation. This passive is bad, stupid, foolish and lore breaking.

    ahh Dracane, always coming in with the hard facts.

    If you do not believe, I will upload a short clip.
    The best example to show that this passive does not work with current lowest % ressource, is to cast a spell, compare the available magicka before and after the cast. I think this is best done with a video.

    When my conjured ward costs 3k, I should have 3k less magicka after the cast. If Spell Recharge procs, I should only have like 2400 less magicka.

    Please notice my magicka at 0:03 it's at 47 552
    After the cast, it is at 44 568
    So the difference is 2984, which is exactly the cost of my hardened ward. Conclusion: Spell recharge does not apply.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI1UoPSrSYM&feature=youtu.be
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • WikiMeister
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    If someone here can upload a combat metric that shows that Spell Recharge restores zilch to your main resource in need of replenishment (esp. Magicka) that'd be final nail to the proverbial coffin. Just to give another layer of material evidence for the devs to digest.

    Literally put on an ice staff, and spam any shield spell (I.e Harness Magicka) while blocking to demonstrate that Altmer receive 0 recovery to offset the drain.
    Edited by WikiMeister on February 11, 2019 9:31PM
    AU | NA-PC Beta veteran since 2014. Dies to 999+ latency.
  • Dracane
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    If someone here can upload a combat metric that shows that Spell Recharge restores zilch to your main resource in need of replenishment (esp. Magicka) that'd be final nail to the proverbial coffin.

    Literally put on an ice staff, and spam any shield spell (I.e Harness Magicka) while blocking to demonstrate that Altmer receive 0 recovery to offset the drain.

    Unfortunately I do not use Combat Metrics. So someone else must do this. :neutral:
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Enough of this non-sense here

    A clear statement now: Spell recharge restores your lowest maximum ressource. Not which ressource is currently the lowest, % wise. When I have 40k max magicka and am currently at 30k magicka, I will still restore stamina, because my 10k max stamina is the lowest maximum ressource

    I have tested it and there is no doubt and no room for speculation. This passive is bad, stupid, foolish and lore breaking.

    Thanks
  • Parrot1986
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    Can't really believe this debate is happening, this sort of wording exists for lots of things in the game (shards, orbs etc) but here's screenshots of combat metrics.

    Last week is a parse with me using Trap for stamina drain so shows the passive in stamina only.

    This week is a parse with me not using any stamina abilities and the passive doesnt show anywhere.

    Last week PTS
    xi1rmwtmtxgd.jpg
    6ybqzlrrb79r.jpg

    This week PTS
    5w4uae598huq.jpg
    7ogttqeeutjq.jpg
  • WikiMeister
    WikiMeister
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    Now there is irrefutable evidence that Spell Recharge is useless for a Stam OR Mag damage dealing Altmer - because as demonstrated in the metrics, and aforementioned video, it restores resources to the pool which currently does not need the help.

    I'm only stating the obvious at this point. All we can really do now is wait for ZOS to fix it.
    AU | NA-PC Beta veteran since 2014. Dies to 999+ latency.
  • Ogou
    Ogou
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    Now there is irrefutable evidence that Spell Recharge is useless for a Stam OR Mag damage dealing Altmer - because as demonstrated in the metrics, and aforementioned video, it restores resources to the pool which currently does not need the help.

    I'm only stating the obvious at this point. All we can really do now is wait for ZOS to fix it.

    I'm pretty sure ZOS expected the change to work as it currently does. Not saying they won't change their mind though.
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