Argonian race is worst for DD of all other races

Anyron · February 2019

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Argonian was never a DD race, it's always been bis for sustain/healing. That's part of the uniqueness of the race, not every race should have the exact same damage/healing/sustain capabilities. They should be good in some areas and weaker in others.

Thing is thre are better healers ( breton + altmer) better tanks ( Nord, redguard) and every race is better for dps.

How is this ballanced?

Altmer are worse healers. The potion passive is better than all Altmer passives combined for healing.

Redguard vs Argonan is more a matter of playstyle and preference rather than an objective best. They're in a good place there.

Imperials would like to have a word with you.

Altmer are worse? Whis is better??

1k max magicka +6% healing done=2k magicka+250 spell damage. ?

Dont forget its multiplied by other +% max magicka and CP system and major sorcery buff and major+minor mending buff

Imperial is clearly better with

2000 health
2000 stamina
15% chance for 1750 healing while Direct ability is used ( which is most of all attacks + light and heavy attacks) WITHOUT COOLDOWN.

Regen is the most important healing stat. As said in the post you ignored, the potion passive alone is better than all other Altmer stats combined.

How does that make Imperials better DPS? Additionally, that's the old Red Diamond.

There is many way how to increase your regen with skills But you have only few skills that increases your max magicka/stamina and all are useless

As argonian i have only resourceful for resources which as i said milion times is overrated passive while most of it goes to trash bin

So i have no damage, only 4k magicka/45s and i have no use for healing

Btw what old Red Diamond? I have it from new patch notes so it cannot be old

Anyron · February 2019

Koronach wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lol,

one want Argonian as DPS

other want as Tank

and someone else want as Healer

Stop making such threads, Potion and healing nerf caused enough outrage!

This is ctrl+c/v? I see this on every your comment

well, you are doing same. Are not you?

No, my post are maybe all about argonians but there are different topics

Resourceful
Argonians are no tanks by lore
Give something to argonian dps (which was last week and other races were buffed but argonians got nothing in this way)
Etc

If you want you can find all my posts and post it here so others can see proof of what you said. I can, in return find at least 3 posts from last week when u used your copy answer

That's the part that bothers me, since when were Argonians ever tanks? Our stats have always been in int,agi, and speed, we had a handicap in endurance. Also we never had a bonus in restoration magic it was mysticism and illusion so how the hell are we such great healers? Yet we are the only race to have members hatched into the Dark Brotherhood as Shadowscales and trained to kill from a young age. Yet we end up being shoehorned into life saving roles like tank and healer. Don't even get me started on the idiotic and lore breaking idea to remove poison resistance.

Argonian were never tanks, ever. This whole idea is just bad because they dont know to give us. Its lore breaking

Anyron · February 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

@Anyron

Please by all means my imperial would like to have a word with you. We are pretty bad lol. We actually rated the worst race in the game but by all means we can definitely trade all of our passives with you guys. I would not be crying over what you guys have lol. Go look at us imperials being 3rd best tank worst magic DPS worst healer and worst stam DPS. Yep imperials have it so good please convince devs to let us trade all passives I can work around missing my 2k stam with your potion passive no problem

I would like to swap your passives with me, right now but sadly this isnt option

Silver_Strider · February 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

@Anyron

Please by all means my imperial would like to have a word with you. We are pretty bad lol. We actually rated the worst race in the game but by all means we can definitely trade all of our passives with you guys. I would not be crying over what you guys have lol. Go look at us imperials being 3rd best tank worst magic DPS worst healer and worst stam DPS. Yep imperials have it so good please convince devs to let us trade all passives I can work around missing my 2k stam with your potion passive no problem

Have you seen the recent changes to Red Diamond? It's a tri-stat restore that is about 75% as potent as Argonian's potion passive. With that, the cost reduction for blocking as well as having 2k extra stat over Argonian, the difference between Argonian and Imperial is anything but cut and dry. What isn't in dispute however, is that Imperial will do more damage than an Argonian, on average, simply because they have more resources than Argonian, while being on par, if not better, Tanks.

So, is trading our passives for yours still on the table?

phantasmalD · February 2019

Cries wrote: »

Also no way altmer is a better healer then argonian and no way redguard is a better tank.

Just 258 spell damage itself gives you stronger heals than 6% healing done, healing skills also scale of max spell damage and magicka.
Quick build on PTS to showcase this:

Same build, only difference is that on the first picture I refunded Life Mender and triggered Major Courage.
On the second picture I bought Life Mender and refunded Resourceful (so I have -1000 magicka compared to the first one).

In 4.3.0 Altmers also had better magicka return passive (575/6 = 95 vs 3600/45 = 80). That's no longer the case but things can still change.
And Bretons had better recovery and higher DPS then Altmers so if Breton >> Altmer and Altmer >> Argonian then obviously Breton >> Argonian.

Haven't done any theorycrafting on Redguard tanks but they have crazy good stamina sustain from what I can see.

ccmedaddy wrote: »

No one cares how much DPS Argonians do because they're good at everything else. ZOS is giving you 3 race change tokens. Use them and leave the Argonian race alone.

One of the main goals was to increase freedom when choosing race/role/class combination.

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Buffing Argonians' offensive stats will inevitably lead to their utility passives being nerfed. Just race change your toon and leave the rest of us Argonians alone.

Exchanging healing done for spell damage would actually only make them better healers, as I demostrated above.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · February 2019

If it were up to me, we'd get rid of the potion passive, replace it with either something that doesn't require you to chug potions or just raw stats, and call it a day.

The problem with the potion passive is that, mathematically it seems really nice, until you apply it to actual in-game situations.

In PvP, I'll admit it can come in handy. I don't pvp much with my argonian, but I do notice that I'm often restoring health, magicka, and stamina when I use a potion. So, it's a nice passive for PvP, sure.

But what about PvE? In most situations a healer is keeping your health at full, so it already caps out at 2/3 effectiveness.

Post changes, that's 8000 resource every what 45 seconds? That's already only 178 resource per second

But wait, how often are you ACTUALLY low on Magicka as a stamina toon or vice-versa? Depending on your build it might happen, but it's rare I'd say. Being generous, I'd say you get anything whatsoever out of the off-main stat about half the time.

So, reduce that 8000 resource per 45 seconds to 6000 resource (4000 main stat plus 4000 half the time, so 2000 average) per 45 seconds. That's 134 resource per second, a pretty pitiful amount.

Also there's the fact that it's potion activated. I'll admit there are plusses and minuses to this, the tradeoff being that you can get massive bursts of resources but you have to manage it yourself ergo it's not truly a passive. But you know what? I'd rather not have to deal with it at all, and get some version of spell recharge or Red Diamond except not awful like those are right now.

exeeter702 · February 2019

And?

ccmedaddy · February 2019

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

If it were up to me, we'd get rid of the potion passive, replace it with either something that doesn't require you to chug potions or just raw stats, and call it a day.

The problem with the potion passive is that, mathematically it seems really nice, until you apply it to actual in-game situations.

In PvP, I'll admit it can come in handy. I don't pvp much with my argonian, but I do notice that I'm often restoring health, magicka, and stamina when I use a potion. So, it's a nice passive for PvP, sure.

But what about PvE? In most situations a healer is keeping your health at full, so it already caps out at 2/3 effectiveness.

Post changes, that's 8000 resource every what 45 seconds? That's already only 178 resource per second

But wait, how often are you ACTUALLY low on Magicka as a stamina toon or vice-versa? Depending on your build it might happen, but it's rare I'd say. Being generous, I'd say you get anything whatsoever out of the off-main stat about half the time.

So, reduce that 8000 resource per 45 seconds to 6000 resource (4000 main stat plus 4000 half the time, so 2000 average) per 45 seconds. That's 134 resource per second, a pretty pitiful amount.

Also there's the fact that it's potion activated. I'll admit there are plusses and minuses to this, the tradeoff being that you can get massive bursts of resources but you have to manage it yourself ergo it's not truly a passive. But you know what? I'd rather not have to deal with it at all, and get some version of spell recharge or Red Diamond except not awful like those are right now.

tl;dr: "I don't PvP much therefore the potion passive is useless"

Good thing ZOS is giving out free race change tokens so you can play a race that suits your playstyle instead of ruining for others.

Tonturri · February 2019

Despite what most end game trial players would have you believe, the entire game does not actually revolve entirely around PvE DPS.

Anyron · February 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

"I don't PvP much therefore the potion passive is useless"

Well that's great. Sounds like you could really

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

If it were up to me, we'd get rid of the potion passive, replace it with either something that doesn't require you to chug potions or just raw stats, and call it a day.

The problem with the potion passive is that, mathematically it seems really nice, until you apply it to actual in-game situations.

In PvP, I'll admit it can come in handy. I don't pvp much with my argonian, but I do notice that I'm often restoring health, magicka, and stamina when I use a potion. So, it's a nice passive for PvP, sure.

But what about PvE? In most situations a healer is keeping your health at full, so it already caps out at 2/3 effectiveness.

Post changes, that's 8000 resource every what 45 seconds? That's already only 178 resource per second

But wait, how often are you ACTUALLY low on Magicka as a stamina toon or vice-versa? Depending on your build it might happen, but it's rare I'd say. Being generous, I'd say you get anything whatsoever out of the off-main stat about half the time.

So, reduce that 8000 resource per 45 seconds to 6000 resource (4000 main stat plus 4000 half the time, so 2000 average) per 45 seconds. That's 134 resource per second, a pretty pitiful amount.

Also there's the fact that it's potion activated. I'll admit there are plusses and minuses to this, the tradeoff being that you can get massive bursts of resources but you have to manage it yourself ergo it's not truly a passive. But you know what? I'd rather not have to deal with it at all, and get some version of spell recharge or Red Diamond except not awful like those are right now.

tl;dr: "I don't PvP much therefore the potion passive is useless"

Good thing ZOS is giving out free race change tokens so you can play a race that suits your playstyle instead of ruining for others.

Its not actually ruining argonians because of all players who plays this game most oh them are dd+heal. Maybe 1/100 is tank.

So i thank you for ruining argonians because you want us to be tanks only which is useless role for pvp ( good luck tanking and taunting players) and important, but dying role for pve

Anyron · February 2019

Tonturri wrote: »

Despite what most end game trial players would have you believe, the entire game does not actually revolve entirely around PvE DPS.

Can you win in pvp by tanking or healing someone? No
Can you be good for pve in tanking/healing? Sure but why would you take argonians race for tanking / healing when there are even better to take?

For me, dps is everything because i play dd and whole point of this ballance was to have all races ballanced for tank or healing or dps roles which is not true on argonians.

They are worst dds of all races here

My whole point of this thread is - argonians are not good tanks because there are better. They are not good healers because there are better. They are not good dds because every race is better as dd

ccmedaddy · February 2019

Your complete ignorance on PvP is kind of adorable. Regardless, Argonians are one of the best races this patch for healers and tanks and will continue excelling at those jobs even after the rebalance. I don't see ZOS making any drastic changes at this point so good luck with your pointless crusade.

Tonturri · February 2019

Anyron wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Despite what most end game trial players would have you believe, the entire game does not actually revolve entirely around PvE DPS.

Can you win in pvp by tanking or healing someone? No
Can you be good for pve in tanking/healing? Sure but why would you take argonians race for tanking / healing when there are even better to take?

For me, dps is everything because i play dd and whole point of this ballance was to have all races ballanced for tank or healing or dps roles which is not true on argonians.

They are worst dds of all races here

My whole point of this thread is - argonians are not good tanks because there are better. They are not good healers because there are better. They are not good dds because every race is better as dd

PvP does not revolve around the holy trinity of going all-in to one role, either. When you phrase it like that you're cutting out pretty massive chunks of how the game works.

Really, that's all I want to get across. If there's a way to balance Argonians for PvE without screwing them over elsewhere, I'm game. I don't care about bleeding edge progression/scores - what I worry about is the extreme narrowing of focus the players who do care about that sometimes suffer from. The potion passive is still pretty great in PvP.

Anyron · February 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Your complete ignorance on PvP is kind of adorable. Regardless, Argonians are one of the best races this patch for healers and tanks and will continue excelling at those jobs even after the rebalance. I don't see ZOS making any drastic changes at this point so good luck with your pointless crusade.

I will pretend i didnt saw that insuilt of yours. Your complete ignorance of everything is obvious.

Maybe it is pointless. I never surrender. I keep fighting until its over and it wont be fo some time. But i have my faight and i belive even one voice can change something if it is loud enought.

I play as argonian since eso launch ( well its 2 months after launch, really) and i will always. Because of this i know how argonians were usess before and i never let them to do it again.

If there is chance to move further with other races, we have to insist. Noone ever give you something just because you should get. You have to be loud to get it.
I cant let it be, as it was before, Argonians on bottom of all races.

Arbit · February 2019

Seeing every other race get such nice changes, and then theres us... the argonians... and i just feel like zos is all like...

Its so frustrating being an argonian magwarden...

Anyron · February 2019

Arbit wrote: »

Seeing every other race get such nice changes, and then theres us... the argonians... and i just feel like zos is all like...

Its so frustrating being an argonian magwarden...

Only what they can do is what players do when they see resourceful. Oh oh! Such OP racial skill! On paper it gives 13800resources! Lets nerf it!

In real its something different. In real most of this passive "restores" full bar stat. Resourceful seems op so what can only do is nerfing. But its OP only on tank build. Useless for DD or healer

sneakymitchell · February 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I agree that argonian DPS potential should be buffed in some way. Especially if you take into account that after next patch argonian will not be as good in tanking & healing roles.

Currently it is a BIS race for a tank role and good choice for a healer role. After next patch this will change and Argonian will be outpreformed by Races.
So as a tank they will be outperformed by Nords, Imerials and possible even Redguards (most of the reason for that is that Argonians will be missing their +5% healing received bonus, while other races received numerous buffs).

As a Healer they will be outperformed by Bretons, High Elves, Dark Elves and even Khajiits (again, mostly because other races received numerous buffs that will outshine Argonian 6% bonus to healing done).

Argonians will still have some potential to be used in those roles (tank & healer) but the same can not be said about DPS role.

Then you can make nord get more damage if this is a thread about a race not having any damage of weapon or spell. Not every class is going have damage look at redgaurd they have substain only. Imperials got substain as well. Nords got more survivability which is still good for upclose DD and can handle a few AoE that ain’t a one shot mechanic.

BahometZ · February 2019

We need to put to rest the idea that Argonians aren't tanks in the lore.

Tanking isn't in the freaking lore! Tanking is a game mechanic.

Argonians are resilient. Their resilience lends itself to tanking.

It's fine.

And Argonians don't need to be top tier DPS on paper. On the same rotation, class, etc. the difference between Argo and Altmer is marginal. The difference between 34k and 32k or 45k and 43k DPS is not a problem for anything but score runs and extreme trial achievements, which most people aren't doing.

I do think that 4000 potions and 1k magic is enough for participating in trials as DPS. The extra health is relevant for DPS because it means you can use sustain food, combined with potions and class based sustain skills, you can wear all damage glyphs. And if that doesn't cut it for you, then go be an altmer nightblade.

LeHarrt91 · February 2019

Well before hand it was only 3%

Kurat · February 2019

I'm so tired of this. Every thread where Argonians are mentioned, people complain how op they are coz sustain. I wish they would just think few sec before posting bs.
This thread is about dps not tanking. Also not everyone pvp.
If I'm a mag pve dps, then why should I give a mud about how much stam and health I get after drinking potion. I only care about magica. Currently I get 4k every 45 sec. That's 88,8 per sec so I get +177 regen (every 2 sec). Wow, that's a real game changer. Wtf, seriously people. And people also mention the alchemy enchant. While it greatly improves sustain, it's not an option for dps.
All other races get more max stat, spell/wep dmg or both, some get way more sustain. Why people argue that Argonians are fine when clearly they are the bottom dps. If you dont wanna test yourself then look around. Plenty of people have done in depth testing and all same results for bottom.
I wish Zos would just remove that potion passive and give 177 regen instead. Maybe people would leave Argonians alone then coz 177 looks and is pathetic.

Silver_Strider · February 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Your complete ignorance on PvP is kind of adorable. Regardless, Argonians are one of the best races this patch for healers and tanks and will continue excelling at those jobs even after the rebalance. I don't see ZOS making any drastic changes at this point so good luck with your pointless crusade.

PvP is impossible to balance but with all the other nerfs to Argonians, their PvP performance has dropped drasticallly across the board there too; We can't heal ourselves as well, we have less sustain, poison damage will be more potent on us. we're weaker in everything. Why be an Argonian Healer in PvP when a Dunmer healer can heal just as well while having more damage and resources? 4K extra magic/health/stamina in PvP gets burned thru as instantly as we get it in most cases that the passive is hardly a problem with everything else removed. Hell, last I checked the potion passive didn't even restore the full 4k because battle spirit cut it in half so realistically, it's only restoring ~2200 after factoring in our racials, which is barely a light attack's worth of health. I'd rather have the extra stamina since then I can at least break free more often than once every 45 seconds.

The argument on Tank is moot as well People can sustain themselves just fine without the potion passives as Tanks so its value only ever comes into play when s*** hits the fan and even then, it'll only carry you so far. With the removal of Healing Received, our self heals are also weaker so we'd have to look elsewhere in order to augment them, whereas races like Orc have so much extra weapon damage as well as max resources, they don't need to do the same.

Your argument is lacking in merit as far as I can tell, so why do you feel the need to try and stop us from requesting a buff to our overall performance when its clear you've no idea on proper balance issues outside what Youtubers and Streamer say

WuffyCerulei · February 2019

You can still be a good dps. You'll have better sustain and survival, which is a bigger deal than most people make for dps. A dead dps does no dps.

ccmedaddy · February 2019

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Your complete ignorance on PvP is kind of adorable. Regardless, Argonians are one of the best races this patch for healers and tanks and will continue excelling at those jobs even after the rebalance. I don't see ZOS making any drastic changes at this point so good luck with your pointless crusade.

PvP is impossible to balance but with all the other nerfs to Argonians, their PvP performance has dropped drasticallly across the board there too. We can't heal ourselves as well, we have less sustain, poison damage will be more potent on us. Why be an Argonian Healer in PvP when a Dunmer healer can heal just as well while having more damage and resources? 4K extra magic/health/stamina in PvP gets burned thru as instantly as we get it in most cases that the passive is hardly a problem with everything else removed. Hell, last I checked the potion passive didn't even restore the full 4k because battle spirit cut it in half so realistically, it's only restoring ~2200 after factoring in our racials, which is barely a light attack's worth of health. I'd rather have the extra stamina since then I can at least break free more often than once every 45 seconds.

The argument on Tank is moot as well People can sustain themselves just fine without the potion passives as Tanks so its value only ever comes into play when s*** hits the fan and even then, it'll only carry you so far. With the removal of Healing Received, our self heals are also weaker so we'd have to look elsewhere in order to augment them, whereas races like Orc have so much extra weapon damage as well as max resources, they don't need to do the same.

Your argument is lacking in merit as far as I can tell, so why do you feel the need to try and stop us from requesting a buff to our overall performance when its clear you've no idea on proper balance issues outside what Youtubers and Streamer say

This post is so full of misinformation I dont know where to start but

1) Argonians still have the strongest healing passive out of all races. Your assertion that Argonians won't "heal themselves well" is just laughable.
2) Resource return via Resourceful is not affected Battle Spirit, just the health portion just like every other source of healing in this game.
3) Having a slightly larger stamina pool (1k at most?) would be FAR inferior to the current potion passive.
4) Poison damage in this game is a meme and the disease resistance remains by far the most useful type of resistance for PvP.
5) Are you actually suggesting Orcs' weapon dmg passive makes them a better tank? Are you high?

Please don't waste my time with another 2000 word essay full of BS and alternative facts. Go research why Argonians are widely considered a top PvP race for ANY role before you act like you know what you're talking about. Thanks.

Anyron · February 2019

BahometZ wrote: »

We need to put to rest the idea that Argonians aren't tanks in the lore.

Tanking isn't in the freaking lore! Tanking is a game mechanic.

Argonians are resilient. Their resilience lends itself to tanking.

It's fine.

And Argonians don't need to be top tier DPS on paper. On the same rotation, class, etc. the difference between Argo and Altmer is marginal. The difference between 34k and 32k or 45k and 43k DPS is not a problem for anything but score runs and extreme trial achievements, which most people aren't doing.

I do think that 4000 potions and 1k magic is enough for participating in trials as DPS. The extra health is relevant for DPS because it means you can use sustain food, combined with potions and class based sustain skills, you can wear all damage glyphs. And if that doesn't cut it for you, then go be an altmer nightblade.

Guerrila warfare. Do you know what that is? It isnt about staying on one place, tanking all damage while reinforcemens coming

Silver_Strider · February 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Your complete ignorance on PvP is kind of adorable. Regardless, Argonians are one of the best races this patch for healers and tanks and will continue excelling at those jobs even after the rebalance. I don't see ZOS making any drastic changes at this point so good luck with your pointless crusade.

PvP is impossible to balance but with all the other nerfs to Argonians, their PvP performance has dropped drasticallly across the board there too. We can't heal ourselves as well, we have less sustain, poison damage will be more potent on us. Why be an Argonian Healer in PvP when a Dunmer healer can heal just as well while having more damage and resources? 4K extra magic/health/stamina in PvP gets burned thru as instantly as we get it in most cases that the passive is hardly a problem with everything else removed. Hell, last I checked the potion passive didn't even restore the full 4k because battle spirit cut it in half so realistically, it's only restoring ~2200 after factoring in our racials, which is barely a light attack's worth of health. I'd rather have the extra stamina since then I can at least break free more often than once every 45 seconds.

The argument on Tank is moot as well People can sustain themselves just fine without the potion passives as Tanks so its value only ever comes into play when s*** hits the fan and even then, it'll only carry you so far. With the removal of Healing Received, our self heals are also weaker so we'd have to look elsewhere in order to augment them, whereas races like Orc have so much extra weapon damage as well as max resources, they don't need to do the same.

Your argument is lacking in merit as far as I can tell, so why do you feel the need to try and stop us from requesting a buff to our overall performance when its clear you've no idea on proper balance issues outside what Youtubers and Streamer say

This post is so full of misinformation I dont know where to start but

1) Argonians still have the strongest healing passive out of all races. Your assertion that Argonians won't "heal themselves well" is just laughable.
2) Resource return via Resourceful is not affected Battle Spirit, just the health portion just like every other source of healing in this game.
3) Having a slightly larger stamina pool (1k at most?) would be FAR inferior to the current potion passive.
4) Poison damage in this game is a meme and the disease resistance remains by far the most useful type of resistance for PvP.
5) Are you actually suggesting Orcs' weapon dmg passive makes them a better tank? Are you high?

Please don't waste my time with another 2000 word essay full of BS and alternative facts. Go research why Argonians are widely considered a top PvP race for ANY role before you act like you know what you're talking about. Thanks.

Clearly, your reading comprehension skills needs work.
1 I stated Heal AS WELL, meaning as well as we currently can, which is 100% true. 5% Healing Received+Done > 6% Healing Done only.
2) I only referred to the Health portion of the potion passive, not the resource portion.
3) It's 1850 Max Stamina on Dunmer now so you're out of date as well. So let's compare, it would take me 2 Stamina glyphs to get to the level of Stamina of a Dunmer + an Addition Magic Glyph to match their magic. 1 Health Glyph will give Dunmer the missing Stat Argonian have over them. The potion passive isn't always available to us as it has a 45 second CD til the next potion is up. The 1850 Max Stamina is always there.
4) Poison damage is much more commonplace than Disease damage. Poison Injection and Lethal Arrow are 2 prominent sources of Poison Damage in PvP on top of Damage health poisons and enchantments. The only prominent form of Disease Damage in the Game is Incapacitating Strike, which bypasses our Disease Status Immunity and defiles us anyway and Disease Enchantments, which are worse than Poison Enchantments in terms of damage anyway so less commonly used, if at all. Meatbag kills us just as well as any other race so it's not much of a point of contention.
5) I'm stating any race can Tank just fine without the Potion Passive. Orc have the same amount of Health as Argonian with 2k Stamina + 258 Weapon Damage to augment their self healing needs vs Argonian with 1k Magic + 6% Healing Done. So a self healing ability like Vigor will heal much more on an Orc than on an Argonian. For a Magic race, change the race from Orc to Altmer or Dunmer and the same holds true.

Since you have a hard time understanding, I used small words to hopefully clear up your misunderstanding. Also, thank you for confirming that your only reference in regards to balance is the words of others since you can't even be bothered to bring up a single argument yourself.

Anyron · February 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Your complete ignorance on PvP is kind of adorable. Regardless, Argonians are one of the best races this patch for healers and tanks and will continue excelling at those jobs even after the rebalance. I don't see ZOS making any drastic changes at this point so good luck with your pointless crusade.

PvP is impossible to balance but with all the other nerfs to Argonians, their PvP performance has dropped drasticallly across the board there too. We can't heal ourselves as well, we have less sustain, poison damage will be more potent on us. Why be an Argonian Healer in PvP when a Dunmer healer can heal just as well while having more damage and resources? 4K extra magic/health/stamina in PvP gets burned thru as instantly as we get it in most cases that the passive is hardly a problem with everything else removed. Hell, last I checked the potion passive didn't even restore the full 4k because battle spirit cut it in half so realistically, it's only restoring ~2200 after factoring in our racials, which is barely a light attack's worth of health. I'd rather have the extra stamina since then I can at least break free more often than once every 45 seconds.

The argument on Tank is moot as well People can sustain themselves just fine without the potion passives as Tanks so its value only ever comes into play when s*** hits the fan and even then, it'll only carry you so far. With the removal of Healing Received, our self heals are also weaker so we'd have to look elsewhere in order to augment them, whereas races like Orc have so much extra weapon damage as well as max resources, they don't need to do the same.

Your argument is lacking in merit as far as I can tell, so why do you feel the need to try and stop us from requesting a buff to our overall performance when its clear you've no idea on proper balance issues outside what Youtubers and Streamer say

This post is so full of misinformation I dont know where to start but

1) Argonians still have the strongest healing passive out of all races. Your assertion that Argonians won't "heal themselves well" is just laughable.
2) Resource return via Resourceful is not affected Battle Spirit, just the health portion just like every other source of healing in this game.
3) Having a slightly larger stamina pool (1k at most?) would be FAR inferior to the current potion passive.
4) Poison damage in this game is a meme and the disease resistance remains by far the most useful type of resistance for PvP.
5) Are you actually suggesting Orcs' weapon dmg passive makes them a better tank? Are you high?

Please don't waste my time with another 2000 word essay full of BS and alternative facts. Go research why Argonians are widely considered a top PvP race for ANY role before you act like you know what you're talking about. Thanks.

What is wrong with you? You cant go without insuilts?

1) it isnt strongest healing passive, it was on hps test proved breton and Altmer are better

2) its still half cut. And even more because its never fully used. Noone ever restores all 3 stats, only when things are bad, but then you are still dead because +4k more health cannot save you

3) this point is nonse, you have explanation at 2)

4) disease damage is only on meatbags and some ult like death stroke as i remember. If you are oiled, or in fire siege radius, you take same damage. As well for physical, elemental, poison, oblivion etc

5) yes thats true. Because all heals scales by spell damage / magicka, stamina heals by weapon damage + stamina. 6% is nothing.
On orc, weapon damage with vigor gives you more than 6% healing done. ( dont forget extra 1k resources)

ccmedaddy · February 2019

lol yeah you right. Poison dmg so op, no disease damage to fear in PvP besides incap, and the resource return via potions is completely irrelevant. Wow, I feel so enlightened from this conversation.

Time for me to go home, take a shower to wash off all the stupidity from this conversation, and play my OP as hell Argonian magwarden. Bye until I get bored at work tomorrow.

Vapirko · February 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

👏 NOT EVERY RACE HAS TO BE A TOP PVE DPS RACE 👏

Buffing Argonians' offensive stats will inevitably lead to their utility passives being nerfed. Just race change your toon and leave the rest of us Argonians alone.

I would love to see this. Moving from that useless tank racials to something else. Tanks are minority of all players here and now argonians will have no chance to play anything else

No one cares how much DPS Argonians do because they're good at everything else. ZOS is giving you 3 race change tokens. Use them and leave the Argonian race alone.

But every race needs to be exactly matched in straight up boring as *** dps parses, down to the very last decimal because apparently that’s the only thing that matters in this game.

ZOS didn’t say that every race would be perfectly matched for DPS. They said they wanted to even out the performance of each race while keep each races unique flavor and getting rid of percent stat boosts. They said do not expect a 1:1 conversion. This means toning down the DPS races that were at the top and bringing up the ones at the bottom and the same goes for tanking races. There’s no accounting for the willful ignorance going on with this patch release.

Mudcrabber · February 2019

Because the race bonuses are now flat amounts instead of percentages, health vs resources will be more interchangeable than before, so long as your base health isn't more than enough.

Banana · February 2019

Sure just give them a damage and or bigger magicka/stamina bonus and keep the crazy potion buff. There's no pleasing an argonian.