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Do you prefer taunting or threat/hate generation in tanking?

Suddwrath
Suddwrath
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This is mostly for tank players:

How do you prefer holding aggro in MMOs? Do you prefer systems such as ESO where a skill can be used to hold aggro of a boss/mob indefinitely without having to worry about losing it before the effect ends, or do you prefer systems where you have to manage the boss' threat/hate via a DPS rotation to generate and maintain that threat/hate?

Do you prefer taunting or threat/hate generation in tanking? 71 votes

Taunting
69%
BlueRavenStxKesstrylMalnutritionxaraanprofundidob16_ESOSodanTokidkJoker99RavenSwornStreegaDraxyspredareaperForztrVostornpaulsimonpsLiofaEthos_evosBrrrofskiGlaiceana 49 votes
Threat/Hate
21%
SuddwrathEejit1331BashevToc de MalsviSinolaiDracan_Fontomkathandiramunster1404KikkesusniandPulqueZeroXFFAndeleStratlocGrianasteri 15 votes
Hate is a strong word. That is why I'm not a tank
9%
validifyedneb18_ESORebornV3xSilver_Striderhappyhughes2001ATomiX96codestripperzvavi 7 votes
  • Dracan_Fontom
    Dracan_Fontom
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    Threat/Hate
    I come from FF14 tanking and the threat generation is a fun mechanic imo.
  • Zaryc
    Zaryc
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    A combination of both would be nice. I liked the tanking mechanic in SWTOR where you had to build up threat but also had a short cd singletarget taunt and a long cd aoe taunt.
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    Threat/Hate
    SaltySudd wrote: »
    This is mostly for tank players:

    How do you prefer holding aggro in MMOs? Do you prefer systems such as ESO where a skill can be used to hold aggro of a boss/mob indefinitely without having to worry about losing it before the effect ends, or do you prefer systems where you have to manage the boss' threat/hate via a DPS rotation to generate and maintain that threat/hate?

    I definitely prefer Threat.

    The way I would work it in, would still be based around Taunt. For 10 seconds while Taunt is active, you should generate threat. That way if the Taunt falls off, you still have aggro. While it is off, the threat can start dropping off little by little requiring the need to reapply the taunt, but not necessarily on cool down like it is right now. In ESO to keep aggro, with proper stats(hp/resist), you can basically just stand still and just cast Taunt on Cool Down and that is all you need to do...not very exciting.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • Stx
    Stx
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    Taunting
    I like taunting. If you couldn't taunt then the only way to re-attain aggro after losing it would be for your dps to stop dpsing, which wouldn't be productive and also a nightmare in pugs.
  • Solariken
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    I would like both honestly. Threat should be the primary mechanic, where Taunt just generates a greater amount of threat than normal attacks.
  • karekiz
    karekiz
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    Taunting
    Taunting simply because threat in games work like this:

    If there are no "Threat gens" or the are unbalanced vs DPS <Heeeelllllooooo TSW> then essentially tanks become forced to run basically DPS with some HP. While that sounds fun, its incredibly dull to not utilize tank skills. They might as well go GW2 and get rid of the trinity all together and make all content DPS with support at that point.

    To combat this devs create threat gen skills, which for all intent and purpose is basically "Taunt" skill in this game only harder. So basically you end up atrifically using side skills or gear to inflate your hate.

    Remember Tanks will NEVER get near a real DPS in terms of dmg in this game. Its just not going to happen. So unless you have massive artifically threat gens <Which is basically taunt> it doesn't change much.
  • Ethos_evos
    Ethos_evos
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    Taunting
    I've been playing Boundless where you gotta generate threat. I am not a fan, people have to be tanky because there is no telling when the "tank" can lose it. Although generating threat can be interesting the few times I played tank In ESO I had enough going on on my screen that I rather not worry about a threat meter on top of it all.
    Edited by Ethos_evos on January 31, 2019 9:00PM
    PC NA/EbonheartPact
  • phantasmalD
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    Having a simplistic aggro system allows ESO tanks to tap into support territory, buffing and debuffing things which, to my understanding, is not the norm and mixes up things a bit. Also, tanks still have to think about positioning, flow of the battle, the mechanics of the fight, managing resources and of course not dying, so it's not like tank gameplay in ESO is "standing still and spamming taunt".

    I love the subtext of your post that "Taunt = easy mod, Threat = hardcore, skillful playstyle" cause I feel that kinda the opposite is true. Not having a more nuanced threat system makes crowd controlling harder, you can't just AoE taunt the mobs.
    This is why DKs were and still are the king of tanking, cause they have chains and talons.

    But the system could certainly be improved a bit cause only having 4 taunts in the entire game (2 of which are kind of garbage) makes builds a bit dull.
    Edited by phantasmalD on February 1, 2019 12:57PM
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    Taunting
    I want a taunt where I actually taunt, bash my sword on my shield and fling my arms out going "come at me bro."
  • BejaProphet
    BejaProphet
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    Taunting
    If you were to add threat meter in this game it would be a disaster. Tank would have to work constantly to stay ahead of min maxed dps. Proper tanking in this game gives you so much more to do.
    Edited by BejaProphet on January 31, 2019 10:13PM
  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    Taunting
    I've dabbled in tanking in many MMOs but only in ESO I ended up being a dedicated tank. Guess just taunting and "controlling the field", debuffing and supporting the group is more fun to me than doing a DD-like rotation with special skills that generate arbitrary "threat" sprinkled here and there.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Hate is a strong word. That is why I'm not a tank
    Taunting is best for ESO, I dont think they have the depth of combat system to support aggro in a good way
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • kypranb14_ESO
    kypranb14_ESO
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    As a magblade who could just aggro with the press of a button... I would love to see threat generation in this game.

    On a serious note though, I like it when I game has both. Taunts to force aggro, and threat as a backup mechanic.
  • max_only
    max_only
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    Taunting
    More dots, more dots, more dots, okay stop dots....okay now dps VERY SLOWLY




    Nah, taunts are fine as is. What I want is a green cone behind me when I lift my shield so standing directly behind me gives you safety. I know there are some boss mechanics like that already (stand in front of beam or orb to take the brunt of the damage when a squishy has been randomly targeted for it).
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • VaxtinTheWolf
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    max_only wrote: »
    More dots, more dots, more dots, okay stop dots....okay now dps VERY SLOWLY

    I understood this reference.

    The front-line shield style would also help all those group members that INSIST on walking behind you, only to get cleaved for 80% or more of their health from a Boss's attack.
    || AD - Rah'Jiin Lv50 Khajiit Nightblade (Damage) || EP - Generic Argonian Lv50 Argonian Nightblade (Tank) || DC - Zinkotsu Lv50 Breton Nightblade (Healer) ||
    || DC - Ja'Kiro Feral-Heart Lv50 Khajiit Dragonknight (Damage) || EP - VaxtinTheWolf Lv50 Redguard Templar (Tank) || AD - Velik Iranis Lv50 Dark Elf Sorcerer (Tank ) ||
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    PC - North American Server (Champion 1300+)
  • Grila
    Grila
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    Taunting
    Definitly taunting. Played tank in SWTOR and now ESO and liked in both games, that I could just do some „c’mon motherf*cker“-move to get the boss‘ attention.

    First, it feels very tanky to me and second I simply don’t like doin damage, especially not, when my role isn’t the damage dealer. I really don’t wanna be part of this „who‘s-the-best-DD?“ or „who-does-the-most-damage?“ competiton.
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    Threat/Hate
    Why Not Both?

    Leave the way it works where if the enemy is not taunted, it picks a random person to chase and kill.

    Tie threat to the Taunt abilities. Add a detail where attacks on the taunted enemy by the player who used the taunt will generate Threat. Every second a Taunt Debuff in on the enemy, it builds a stack of Threat lasting 10 seconds (New stacks refresh the timer). If another player applies a Taunt Debuff, your threat stacks are removed, and theirs begins.

    If you are not the player using the taunt, you do not generate threat. The point of this is so the mechanics would not cause the highest DPS player to be the one to take the aggro if the Taunt of Threat debuff expires. The enemy will do what they normally do, pick a random person to chase and kill.

    What this sort of threat system allows is for Tanks to do more than being a Taunt refresher, you would have 10 seconds after the taunt expires to refresh it.This could allow for a longer window for Tanks to do more than apply defensive buffs, and Taunt.

    I'm thinking of this in the context of ways to make Tanking more welcoming to a new player as well. We've seen it enough where DDs complain that their queues are very long in Dungeon Finder. Obviously this is because the pool of DDs are so large, and the pool of tanks and healers in very small. If starting a Tank was a little more friendly to newcomers, we might see more people playing as one.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • Suddwrath
    Suddwrath
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    Threat/Hate
    kathandira wrote: »
    In ESO to keep aggro, with proper stats(hp/resist), you can basically just stand still and just cast Taunt on Cool Down and that is all you need to do...not very exciting.
    I come from FF14 tanking and the threat generation is a fun mechanic imo.

    I agree that threat generation is a fun mechanic. It isn't so much about trying to be a DPS in heavy armor, but rather it just makes the fights more engaging. Tanking in ESO can get pretty boring after a while especially in certain fights. Most of the engagement in boss fights comes from activating synergies and reapplying certain debuffs on cooldowns, but the rest of it is holding block and taunting about every 10 seconds (and occasionally interrupting a boss mechanic). Threat generation keeps the fight engaging, especially for easier/slower-paced bosses such as the Foundation Stone Atro in vAA.
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    Threat/Hate
    SaltySudd wrote: »
    kathandira wrote: »
    In ESO to keep aggro, with proper stats(hp/resist), you can basically just stand still and just cast Taunt on Cool Down and that is all you need to do...not very exciting.
    I come from FF14 tanking and the threat generation is a fun mechanic imo.

    I agree that threat generation is a fun mechanic. It isn't so much about trying to be a DPS in heavy armor, but rather it just makes the fights more engaging. Tanking in ESO can get pretty boring after a while especially in certain fights. Most of the engagement in boss fights comes from activating synergies and reapplying certain debuffs on cooldowns, but the rest of it is holding block and taunting about every 10 seconds (and occasionally interrupting a boss mechanic). Threat generation keeps the fight engaging, especially for easier/slower-paced bosses such as the Foundation Stone Atro in vAA.

    Totally agreed = )
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    Taunting
    Let me note that I have zero experience playing an MMO with roles where threat is used as a mechanic.

    Based on my experiences in this game, there will be enough whiny damage dealers as it is without having them also whine about drawing aggression from mobs because they're doing too much damage per second. On the other hand, it would serve them right and might help throttle down the obscene damage numbers that are possible in this game.
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    Threat/Hate
    Starlock wrote: »
    On the other hand, it would serve them right and might help throttle down the obscene damage numbers that are possible in this game.

    I was thinking about this the other day. If ZoS would want to throttle DPS a bit, they just need to add more Health % based abilities to bosses. Such as add spawning. Kill it too fast, and get overwhelmed by adds. Add a unity bonus to health, defense, and damage to the adds. More adds, the stronger they get to a point where they are just as strong as the boss itself.

    There are sorts of creative ways they can put a leash on people that isn't simply nerfing sets, skills, racials, and whatever else.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • Suddwrath
    Suddwrath
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    Threat/Hate
    kathandira wrote: »
    I was thinking about this the other day. If ZoS would want to throttle DPS a bit, they just need to add more Health % based abilities to bosses. Such as add spawning. Kill it too fast, and get overwhelmed by adds. Add a unity bonus to health, defense, and damage to the adds. More adds, the stronger they get to a point where they are just as strong as the boss itself.

    Vykosa was a step in the right direction. If you burn her too quickly you will quickly be overwhelmed with adds. So not that every boss should function that way, but it would definitely help get rid of the current burn-and-ignore-mechanics strategy.
  • itsfatbass
    itsfatbass
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    ESO already has basically both of what you described. Tanks use taunt on the primary target (boss or 1-2 more difficult trash) and use other means (chains, immobilize, snare, dmg) for the more meaningless targets.
    ~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    Threat/Hate
    SaltySudd wrote: »
    kathandira wrote: »
    I was thinking about this the other day. If ZoS would want to throttle DPS a bit, they just need to add more Health % based abilities to bosses. Such as add spawning. Kill it too fast, and get overwhelmed by adds. Add a unity bonus to health, defense, and damage to the adds. More adds, the stronger they get to a point where they are just as strong as the boss itself.

    Vykosa was a step in the right direction. If you burn her too quickly you will quickly be overwhelmed with adds. So not that every boss should function that way, but it would definitely help get rid of the current burn-and-ignore-mechanics strategy.

    Totally, they can expand on what happens if you burn too quick. I agree though, it's getting a bit dry and repetitive that so many mechanics on bosses can be burned right passed.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    I want a taunt where I actually taunt, bash my sword on my shield and fling my arms out going "come at me bro."

    Ha! I was going to say something similar, although my version had a skill that would insult Rakkhat's dear old mother and perhaps moon some of his adds when they spawn. Would give a whole new meaning to "Lunar Phase."
  • idk
    idk
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    Taunting
    The taunt system in ESO works well for how ESO dungeon and trials are designed.

    While I have enjoyed treat systems in other games I really do like the tanking in ESO much better. Regardless of if someone likes it or not, it is how it is designed here and that is not changing.

    Of course paulsimonps has the right idea.
    Edited by idk on February 1, 2019 6:02PM
  • max_only
    max_only
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    Taunting
    I want a taunt where I actually taunt, bash my sword on my shield and fling my arms out going "come at me bro."

    Warden’s Lotus animation kind of looks like “come at me bro” lol
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • Druid40
    Druid40
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    I prefer taunting because you can lose aggro more easily with threat, especially if you do not have the best gear for keeping your threat level the highest. For example, in Tera, crit and special aggro buffs/items kept enemy NPCs on you. When I got into more difficult group content, I would sometimes lose aggro to players that built for high crit.
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