The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 22, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
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• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Please let S&B keep full enchant power.
Krayl
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It's already ridic enough that as tanks we are expected to farm and wear medium armor sets and be less tanky just to be a glorified buff bot.
now we are going to be expected to run a staff backbar. I realize some guilds already do. I've avoided it because being a tank and holding a stick just feels dumb.
S&B is already giving up a weapon enchant due to shield and isn't likely to be a high dps build anyhow. Or in the very least change crushing weapon to be full power with S&B.
Tank & Healers are tired of getting stuck in their builds, gear, and role just to make sure PVP is 'balanced'. We play these roles so we can be useful to a group, but that doesn't mean we want the job to be increasingly more difficult with every nerf thrown at us.
now we are going to be expected to run a staff backbar. I realize some guilds already do. I've avoided it because being a tank and holding a stick just feels dumb.
S&B is already giving up a weapon enchant due to shield and isn't likely to be a high dps build anyhow. Or in the very least change crushing weapon to be full power with S&B.
Tank & Healers are tired of getting stuck in their builds, gear, and role just to make sure PVP is 'balanced'. We play these roles so we can be useful to a group, but that doesn't mean we want the job to be increasingly more difficult with every nerf thrown at us.
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pizzaow✭✭✭Agreed, please consider this ZOS.
Or, alternately give us a weapon enchantment for shields. Ideally the total weapon enchantments for each bar would equal 1; As-is S+B is the only skill line with 0.5XBox/NA GT: Pizzaow2 -
Skullstachio✭✭✭✭✭Or better yet:
Battlefield Tactician:(Previously Battlefield Mobility)- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 30% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 50%.
- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 60% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 100%.
This should circumvent the problem for One-hand and shield builds.I know what you di-Iddly did... (you would be wise not to do that again during a time when Suspicion in the gaming space is at an all time high.)by not actually revealing real drop tables in the game for all items, you only prove what has been proven with proof of concept that you can/will manipulate item drop chances based on certain elements performed by the player.37 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oh I see...
Torug's Pact
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency and reduces the cooldown of your weapon's enchantment by 30%.
Can TP still keep the uptime ?0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh I see...
Torug's Pact
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency and reduces the cooldown of your weapon's enchantment by 30%.
Can TP still keep the uptime ?
Uptime isn't the problem.
Potency is. A torug's infused 1h will barely reach the potency of a non-torugs/non-infused single enchant.
At this point it's better for a DD or healer to use it.Edited by usmcjdking on January 22, 2019 2:46AM0331
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lokulin✭✭✭✭✭Yep, every release lately seems to be making tanking harder, especially if you aren't a DK. Given queue times for dps and the lack of tanks I don't know why they aren't doing more to make tanking attractive rather than making it less and less enjoyable every patch.I've hidden your signature.2 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alpha-Lupi wrote: »Or better yet:
Battlefield Tactician:(Previously Battlefield Mobility)- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 30% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 50%.
- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 60% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 100%.
This should circumvent the problem for One-hand and shield builds.
I think everyone would be very happy with that.2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love this change, makes ice staff more attractive, so slot a ice staff and use wall.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 22, 2019 6:07AM1 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alpha-Lupi wrote: »Or better yet:
Battlefield Tactician:(Previously Battlefield Mobility)- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 30% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 50%.
- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 60% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 100%.
This should circumvent the problem for One-hand and shield builds.
+1 for this0 -
Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is one of the changes I tried to prevent due to how big of a nerf it is to tanks. We already got nerfed with how racials now give less Max Health. Now we have to give up an enchant. Classes that had stamina sustain issues could run Absorb Stamina on staff bar with Blockade, allowing them to convert magicka to stamina. Now you will have to sacrifice that for Crusher. If you were using Weakening, say goodbye to that. It also pigeonholes tanks into running a certain setup, making double 1H/S builds obsolete. Also a sustain nerf to tanks that didn't use Blockade for enchant procs. Now we have to spend an extra amount of magicka to constantly keep Blockade up. There are many disadvantages to this change sadly. Tanks got big nerfs. I hope they'll see some reason and change certain things. I also recommended the "increase enchant effectiveness while using 1H/S passive" but nothing came out of it
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Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for all the constructive feedback.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »I love this change, makes ice staff more attractive, so slot a ice staff and use wall.
Not everyone wants to run an ice staff, and prior to this change you could still run Ice Staff as you described just as effectively as post-nerf. So essentially what you're saying is that you love that everyone is now forced to play as you prefer to play - definitely not the messaging the game was predicated upon. I'm glad you like your play style. Some of us don't want to be pigeon-holed into running a staff.
Not everyone wants to run blockade. Iv'e been tanking double S&B for years now. I like having the freedom to slot skills from 1HS on either bar.
I can't imagine when ZoS created an MMO with defined roles, their intent was to force every tank to be a half-wizard.
the only argument you could possibly make is, "hey, if you want to be more tanky you need to sacrifice half your enchant power". Which is fine if that were the premise the game had been predicated on and how the game worked for the last 5 years - but it's not. It's simply, in my opinion, far too late in the life-cycle of this game to suddenly pigeon-hole a required role.
Maybe on PC it's not a big deal, but it's hard to find tanks on console for sure. It's only going to get harder if tanks keep getting stepped on, stripped down, and forced to play one way every single update. Especially since I'd have to wager the majority of these nerfs are due to PVP balance. Yay.5 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭DW can use the same type of enchant on both which makes it a bit over powered. S/B cannot. Seems like a no-brainer to only have this rule affect DW.
It is a odd decision. Maybe a oversite?XBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear2 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alpha-Lupi wrote: »Or better yet:
Battlefield Tactician:(Previously Battlefield Mobility)- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 30% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 50%.
- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 60% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 100%.
This should circumvent the problem for One-hand and shield builds.
+1August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
Tetrafy✭✭✭✭Thanks for all the constructive feedback.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »I love this change, makes ice staff more attractive, so slot a ice staff and use wall.
Not everyone wants to run an ice staff, and prior to this change you could still run Ice Staff as you described just as effectively as post-nerf. So essentially what you're saying is that you love that everyone is now forced to play as you prefer to play - definitely not the messaging the game was predicated upon. I'm glad you like your play style. Some of us don't want to be pigeon-holed into running a staff.
Not everyone wants to run blockade. Iv'e been tanking double S&B for years now. I like having the freedom to slot skills from 1HS on either bar.
I can't imagine when ZoS created an MMO with defined roles, their intent was to force every tank to be a half-wizard.
the only argument you could possibly make is, "hey, if you want to be more tanky you need to sacrifice half your enchant power". Which is fine if that were the premise the game had been predicated on and how the game worked for the last 5 years - but it's not. It's simply, in my opinion, far too late in the life-cycle of this game to suddenly pigeon-hole a required role.
Maybe on PC it's not a big deal, but it's hard to find tanks on console for sure. It's only going to get harder if tanks keep getting stepped on, stripped down, and forced to play one way every single update. Especially since I'd have to wager the majority of these nerfs are due to PVP balance. Yay.
So hop on a nord play double s and b and get those juicy warhorns and not worry about the enchant.1 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thanks for all the constructive feedback.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »I love this change, makes ice staff more attractive, so slot a ice staff and use wall.
Not everyone wants to run an ice staff, and prior to this change you could still run Ice Staff as you described just as effectively as post-nerf. So essentially what you're saying is that you love that everyone is now forced to play as you prefer to play - definitely not the messaging the game was predicated upon. I'm glad you like your play style. Some of us don't want to be pigeon-holed into running a staff.
Not everyone wants to run blockade. Iv'e been tanking double S&B for years now. I like having the freedom to slot skills from 1HS on either bar.
I can't imagine when ZoS created an MMO with defined roles, their intent was to force every tank to be a half-wizard.
the only argument you could possibly make is, "hey, if you want to be more tanky you need to sacrifice half your enchant power". Which is fine if that were the premise the game had been predicated on and how the game worked for the last 5 years - but it's not. It's simply, in my opinion, far too late in the life-cycle of this game to suddenly pigeon-hole a required role.
Maybe on PC it's not a big deal, but it's hard to find tanks on console for sure. It's only going to get harder if tanks keep getting stepped on, stripped down, and forced to play one way every single update. Especially since I'd have to wager the majority of these nerfs are due to PVP balance. Yay.
So hop on a nord play double s and b and get those juicy warhorns and not worry about the enchant.
Not quite the problem. This is going to either cause tanks to have to run back bar destro or cause someone else to need to run crushing. The extra ult isn't going to mitigate the loss of pen for all the dps in the group.3 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I'm not sure what Nords have to do with anything.
If this change goes through all tanks in trials will be expected to be running a destro staff backbar, end of story.
And that is honestly weird and backwards in essentially every way - thematic, logic, even within ender scrolls games in general it doesn't fit. It was always cool to have it as an option but essentially making it mandatory is too limiting.3 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bump.
ZOS this is exactly what your players want. The 1 hand and shield is in no danger of too much DPS. A minor passive tweak and everybody is happy.
If you don’t....what do you think will happen? 8 damage find a way to get 1k extra piercing? Or tanks permanently expected to run a 2 hander? You are stripping us of choice indirectly.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest2 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Liofa it again increases my confidence in you as our tank representative to know you caught this and tried to warn them as well as gave the obvious solution.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest1 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭I can't think of any reason to not make this part of the passive as has been mentioned. Usually when something like this comes up there are pros and cons that have to be weighed; in this case I can't think of any cons. Maybe the small risk of some obscure pvp angle. . ?
The only reason to not do it is if there were some aspect of the actual game code that would keep it from being doable.0 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can't think of any reason to not make this part of the passive as has been mentioned. Usually when something like this comes up there are pros and cons that have to be weighed; in this case I can't think of any cons. Maybe the small risk of some obscure pvp angle. . ?
The only reason to not do it is if there were some aspect of the actual game code that would keep it from being doable.
Couldn’t be or infused and Torug wouldn’t be possible. This absolutely should happen.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭That's probably true. I've worked in game dev before but as an artist, so I aim to not make assumptions about what's possible. It's easy to come up with ideas for solutions but that doesn't mean that implementing them is a simple thing.0
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭And it is things like this, little by little, nerf after a nerf (to both fun and choices since nerfing something to make the other option seem more valid is not equal to more choices) is why there are not many tanks in queue anymore or why not many anymore proudly say "i play tank as main for fun".
But i guess the people defending all these racial changes + every change like this always forgets other players than pve dps even exist. It is just sad and i am personally starting to just give up on trying to even explain anymore on the bad sides of these changes when people have either lost their minds on the "everyone got buffed" mantra or the one making these changes has been totally incompetent, or both?
I mean, cannot people read anymore and understand when there are big nerfs happening without reason and be empathic and see that many are loosing options only, nerfs to many, that if they have nothing to do with your playstyle and fun, you should still defend them and understand the sadness, because.. they will just come next for you and the things you like. Who is there left anymore then to defend and voice concerns for you when you yourself pushing out the people right now with all the "just adapt" mantra that is another way of saying "play how zos wants or leave" instead of the style you been playing happily for years.
If something is not broken, why "fix" it? Racial changes that had goal to give more freedom. No freedom happened, still some races will be bis for each role. Nerfs did happen though for many builds. So why did even make such a change? What was the point?
Again i say, fighting the power creep would have been easy with Champion Point system reworked, not just a shuffle on racial bis order. Enchantment situation could have handled smartly also, as some here suggested.. but nah, they rather just lazily nerf things, because there always are atleast some defending even the most brainless nerf with the "just adapt" so they can get away with it.
Maybe just for once STOP with the "just adapt" to the most ridiculous things and have the developers do work until there is some common sense and actual vision on what they are doing, thanks and have a good day.
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭BejaProphet wrote: »@Liofa it again increases my confidence in you as our tank representative to know you caught this and tried to warn them as well as gave the obvious solution.
But the obvious sad observation about that is.. if a class rep who is telling them tank realities gets not listened and nerfs go through..
then what is the point to even give them feedback.
Dumbing down things and nerfing variety and freedom is their current vision clearly.
Funny thing is, all the people i know in the game like the build freedom and options this game has as its biggest thing on why we play it and love it, lately many have been starting to feel those options are becoming less and less and for the first time we have started to talk about other options. Investing time on a game that is clearly heading to a path of less and less of the "play how you want" is not time that well spent.1 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What they should have done is just allow only the weapon in the main hand to fire off enchants.
Then it would have equalized DW's power without yet another nerf to tanking.
Would love to have fun in my tanking role again. From Morrowind patch on, this role (the normal one i play in end game trials) has gotten less and less fun with every patch, just slowly nerfing everything we can do. On top of the ridiculous mechanics they keep putting into trials and dungeons now: Debuffs acting like enemy effects and not debuffs so they can't be purged. Crazy amount of one-shots added to everything (can't tell you how "fun" MHK is when 2 boss wolves, the main boss, and 2 WWs all spawn at once and every single one of them will one shot any DPS it hits with a light attack so they all have to be instantly taunted in a game with no aoe taunts). And the worst mechanic in the game: oblivion damage everywhere (in pve and pvp). You build for tankiness, taking everything out of damage or anything else you can do, then they take your tankiness away from you so now you are completely worthless.
And to top it off. Has anyone seen the trend? We will nerf a bunch of stuff, then put sets in the game that give you effects to replace the things we took away. But guess what? This isn't even an option for tanks b/c we are locked into having to where ebon/alkosh b/c dps are so starved for the health that 1K is deal-breaker for them (that's why they are all going to be on Argonians next patch right? lol) And b/c Alkosh is such a horrible DPS set that it's best use is to force it on tanks, so we where a set that we get nothing from on the 2,3,4 piece bonus. SO MUCH FUN! Now they are going to half crusher, so Alkosh is even more valuable and will force staff tanking for end-game meta whether you want to or not. So as I've watched my dps friends change gear patch after patch and upgrade their power, guess what I'm wearing? Still ebon/alkosh after all these years. Never getting to make use of the new heavy sets in the game and watching my power level go down every patch.
This patch isn't even about a direct nerf to tanking and yet I'll be losing: Total Health, healing in bonus, regen bonuses, half my crusher enchant power and know that I shouldn't even bother looking at any of the new tank gear sets b/c I won't get to use them in any practical way. I guess it's better than the time they completely deleted a heavy armor passive and just broke another passive in two to fill the void instead of creating something new/interesting to take it's place.
Tanks are what I enjoy most in this game and it's a shame I've been struggling to enjoy the role for years now and ZoS doesn't care they are creating that problem. Because it's not just me that feels that way.Edited by xaraan on January 23, 2019 7:44AM-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC9 -
ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭There was another way I suggested they could balance dual wield enchants without nerfing sword and shield, from the other thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454646/pts-4-3-0-discussion-on-1h-enchant-changes/p4ExistingRug61 wrote: »I’m not going to go into whether enchants should be balanced between dual wield and two handed no matter what this will result in a nerf to dual wield.
But, if the goal is to make enchants balance between dual wield and two handed, then I think the proposed change on PTS is the wrong way to go about it. As stated by many previously, the problem with simply halving the strength of one handed enchants means that if dual wielding you lose out when using things like berserker, crushing or absorb glyphs as two half strength enchants is weaker than one full strength enchant. It is also a straight up nerf to sword and shield.
A potentially better way to achieve the desired balance would be to leave one handed enchants strength unchanged but make enchant procs for dual wield share cooldown (even if the enchants are different), with the caveat that they will always proc alternating so both occur. This would effectively halve the current proc rate for dual wield, but also mean using two of the same enchant is no longer strictly worse than two different enchants (which is currently the case as two of the same enchants share cooldown).
Ie: If dual wielding two infused weapons with two different enchants, say absorb stamina and poison, you would get procs as follows
Absorb stamina – 2 sec cooldown – Poison – 2 sec cooldown – repeat
Or if you had two of the same, say two absorb stamina
Absorb stamina #1 – 2 sec cooldown – Absorb stamina #2 – 2 sec cooldown – repeat
The effects of this change would be as follows:
1) Enchantment strength is more balanced between dual wield and two handed. Ie: you get exactly the same total enchant proc rate and strength with dual wield and two handed by putting the same enchant on both dual wield weapons, or alternatively you can have half the proc rate on two different enchants.
2) Infused trait is more balanced between dual wield and two handed. Ie: to get the equivalent of an infused two hander you would have to make both dual wield weapons infused, whereas running something like nirn/infused would be a reduced overall enchant proc rate vs infused two hander.
3) Sword and shield would effectively be unchanged from live, so would still have access to a full strength enchant and be balanced with dual wield and two handed.
4) There would be a slight weird effect if using two enchants with different cooldowns as in this case it wouldn’t simply be a half proc rate for both enchants vs current live due to the alternating nature (one would be more than halved rate, while the other would be less than halved rate).
5) There would be an additional slight nerf to dual wield burst as you would no longer be able to proc the two enchants on two subsequent attacks (or with something like twin slashes). But this would still be in line with two handed.2 -
Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not sure it's fair to the two handed weapons if single handed weapons get the full bonus. Consider:
2H weapon: one enchantment for say, 3000 damage.
Two 1H weapons: two enchantments, totalling 6000 damage.
1H weapon and shield: two enchantments, one for 3000 damage PLUS an armour enchantment.
If the 1H weapons or weapon and shield are allowed to get the full bonus, they're going to end up with twice the enchantment effect compared to 2H weapons. So, it seems fair to me to cut the bonus in half for 1H weapons.
Of course, 1H and shield will sacrifice some damage since the shield would take an armour enchantment, but that's the POINT of a shield, it's DEFENSIVE.
Anyhow, just my 2 cents.Exploring Tamriel since 1994.2
